Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tha Xecutioner
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Soodmeg
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Ugh I don't like that way if thinking, it basically slaps artist in the face by making it crazy generic. I just don't like the everything is art take....it's too easy too convenient too bland. It's like saying everyone who drives to work is the same as a NASCAR racer.
I choose not to degrade a artist work by lumping tons of filler in the same topic. But again I have to say this, it dot see the reason to push to make it art. I find it to be the same as when cheerleaders argue that is a sport, it's clearly not. It that doesn't mean it's any less athletic, complex and requires tons of training.
I choose not to degrade a artist work by lumping tons of filler in the same topic. But again I have to say this, it dot see the reason to push to make it art. I find it to be the same as when cheerleaders argue that is a sport, it's clearly not. It that doesn't mean it's any less athletic, complex and requires tons of training.
Salamando3000
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It's definitely wrong to say that just because a bunch of artists worked on a thing makes that thing Art. Think the most thought-provoking aspect of the "games as art" debate is the question of whether the things that make a game a game can be art. Consider the game of chess...there's certainly been chess sets that are works of art, with finely crafted pieces and an intricate board, but are the rules of chess art? Can the rules and gameplay of a video game be art?
But that's neither here nor there...Art itself isn't a defense against criticism. People can and will complain about art all the time. But Bioware has every right to say "No, we're standing by our writers, and not changing anything." More than likely though, Bioware and/or EA won't be thinking about changing the ending in terms of Art though...they're going to take the course of action that makes them the most/loses them the least amount of money.
But that's neither here nor there...Art itself isn't a defense against criticism. People can and will complain about art all the time. But Bioware has every right to say "No, we're standing by our writers, and not changing anything." More than likely though, Bioware and/or EA won't be thinking about changing the ending in terms of Art though...they're going to take the course of action that makes them the most/loses them the least amount of money.
ActionKazimer
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Cool job, Sood. As XP said, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. However, I actually do work on video games, and though you may not consider your job to be art, we do.
I don't want to get too into this because I know we're just not going to agree, and that's fine, but since we're dropping the occupation card, I just want you to know that for those who actually work in game development, there's no question.
I don't want to get too into this because I know we're just not going to agree, and that's fine, but since we're dropping the occupation card, I just want you to know that for those who actually work in game development, there's no question.
it's possible they are just saying their game is in the end is a work of art, collaboration of thought, talent, etc etc and how you perceive it is just as you would a painting, music, etc. to help cover themselves.
i'm an illustrator, I do a lot of illustration for both commerical and non commerical companies. some ppl don't think the storyboards I did for Toyota is art, some ppl think the magic cards i did is. It pays the bills and i enjoy doing both, but between the two I am certainly more proud of and more receptive towards comments on the card artwork.
it's all a matter of interpretation.
i'm an illustrator, I do a lot of illustration for both commerical and non commerical companies. some ppl don't think the storyboards I did for Toyota is art, some ppl think the magic cards i did is. It pays the bills and i enjoy doing both, but between the two I am certainly more proud of and more receptive towards comments on the card artwork.
it's all a matter of interpretation.
[quote name='JaredFrost']It's actually what I thought was happening when I first played the ending, then it just ended, I was like wtf.
The ONLY way I'd accept this and not be massively pissed off is if the DLC was free, completely, no online pass requirement, no xbox live gold, nothing, free, stop, period.
That being said, I don't think that was their intention all along, I think they screwed up the ending, probably used all the time and resources they should have used on the ending on the completely useless and shoehorned in multiplayer so they could sell online passes and cut used sales.[/QUOTE]
I doubt time was an issue in that sense since it was separate teams working on the mp and sp
The ONLY way I'd accept this and not be massively pissed off is if the DLC was free, completely, no online pass requirement, no xbox live gold, nothing, free, stop, period.
That being said, I don't think that was their intention all along, I think they screwed up the ending, probably used all the time and resources they should have used on the ending on the completely useless and shoehorned in multiplayer so they could sell online passes and cut used sales.[/QUOTE]
I doubt time was an issue in that sense since it was separate teams working on the mp and sp
Interesting thing that started happening. I start up the game and it goes through the opening animation of the omni-tool, then everything stops and I get a window saying "a sign in change has occured, restart" or something to that effect. I press the A button and then it does the open animation again and goes to the title menu.
Anyone else encounter that?
p.s.
Games are art just as much as any otherform of entertainment. There's high brow and low brow, but there's no doubt that a game is indeed an interactive storytelling art form.
Anyone else encounter that?
p.s.
Games are art just as much as any otherform of entertainment. There's high brow and low brow, but there's no doubt that a game is indeed an interactive storytelling art form.
ActionKazimer
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We're going to MULTIPLAYER
Salamando3000
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[quote name='gotdott']geez where are you guys going with this whole art debate[/QUOTE]
In Bioware's recent post indicating that there'd be additional content or something to clarify the ending, the Games as Art and preserving Artistic Integrity angles were played up. This led a the anti-new-ending crowd's mantra to change from "People who demand a new ending are entitled" to "Bioware shouldn't have to change because it's Art." Or something like that. So there's been a lot of debate (not necessarily here) about whether games are art, whether Mass Effect games are art, and whether or not art should change, given how malleable games are.
In Bioware's recent post indicating that there'd be additional content or something to clarify the ending, the Games as Art and preserving Artistic Integrity angles were played up. This led a the anti-new-ending crowd's mantra to change from "People who demand a new ending are entitled" to "Bioware shouldn't have to change because it's Art." Or something like that. So there's been a lot of debate (not necessarily here) about whether games are art, whether Mass Effect games are art, and whether or not art should change, given how malleable games are.
I hate to derail this thread further, but how can you claim that games are not art? These are people dreams and visions being put into a medium to express themselves.
Granted, some games are more "art" than others, but when I can take a screenshot from Shadow of the Collossus and look at it and get an emotional response from that, to me, that makes it art.
Further evidence that games are art is the new Smithsonian exhibit that is showing this year: http://americanart.si.edu/exhibitions/archive/2012/games/
(One of the games they ended up featuring was Mass Effect 2 by the way)
Your comment that video games are not art really triggered a response from me because I've always felt passionately that these people that make these games deserve recognition and respect, espcially indie developers who put their life savings on the line.
Granted, some games are more "art" than others, but when I can take a screenshot from Shadow of the Collossus and look at it and get an emotional response from that, to me, that makes it art.
Further evidence that games are art is the new Smithsonian exhibit that is showing this year: http://americanart.si.edu/exhibitions/archive/2012/games/
(One of the games they ended up featuring was Mass Effect 2 by the way)
Your comment that video games are not art really triggered a response from me because I've always felt passionately that these people that make these games deserve recognition and respect, espcially indie developers who put their life savings on the line.
funny, i got booted so many times trying to play a lvl 1 drell vanguard that I had to go in with a lvl 20 (this is bronze btw), then did the bait and switch at the last minute...naturally we still beat um Bronze with no problem. >.> even though ppl dropped early game. It's bronze.
[quote name='100xp']yeah dawg.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/23/operation-fortress/
next N7 event.[/QUOTE]
Wahoo, what do we have set as an objective this time. Oh wait it's just a weekend XP bonus thing. Oh well I'm down.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/23/operation-fortress/
next N7 event.[/QUOTE]
Wahoo, what do we have set as an objective this time. Oh wait it's just a weekend XP bonus thing. Oh well I'm down.
Lord_Kefka
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I find it funny that the "games as art" debate has come up around the ending. I'm on-board with it being an art....kinda. Allow me to explain before flaming. Games consist of many forms of art, and can have great creative vision for storytelling, art and music. But I have two caveats...one is that "art" is subjective. The other is that making games is a business.
I liked Racoon's counter-argument above, but I don't agree with all of it. And healthy debate on the subject should be encouraged as an exchange of ideas. Gaming in general loses a little bit of that artistic credibility when it sells you additional components of the art piece as DLC. There was a good image that showed the Mona Lisa broken up into pieces with parts taken out as price-tagged DLC. This is where the business aspect comes back into play. In regards to how that colors my view of the ending?
I'm sure there's even a few more points I'm forgetting to make...I might amend later. But for now, those are the reasons I have issue with the "art defense". Please discuss in a civilized manner.
I liked Racoon's counter-argument above, but I don't agree with all of it. And healthy debate on the subject should be encouraged as an exchange of ideas. Gaming in general loses a little bit of that artistic credibility when it sells you additional components of the art piece as DLC. There was a good image that showed the Mona Lisa broken up into pieces with parts taken out as price-tagged DLC. This is where the business aspect comes back into play. In regards to how that colors my view of the ending?
If you are to look at a piece of art, your eye may be drawn to certain things. Same with music, sometimes it's not just the notes that are played...but how they are played and how they are done differently. Among all of the "variations" of endings, you have earth ravaged with a low score, saved with a higher score, and the end of the Reaper threat in one way or another. There is one KEY functional difference among all of these. The "Shepard lives" ending.
Before we analyze the scene itself, let's look at how you get there. You have to have a high EMS score, which implies that you put forth the effort to be ready and save the world. You also have to choose the "destroy the reapers" option, this is the only way to get that scene. This is significant if you are looking for meaning in the art piece. Why did the artists choose to show this scene only under these conditions? Why is it significant? Taking things at face value, this is the "best ending" as called out by the official guide. It's like saying "this is the best draft of my manuscript" or "my best version of the same sketch".
So, let's review the scene itself. It shows a torso wearing an N7 dogtag suddenly taking a breath from underneath debris. Admittedly, the torso itself is hard to describe. Is that charred armor? Is it necessarily armor? The dogtag with the N7 designation leads us to believe this is Shepard. Because while the designation has been mentioned and James is applying for it, we don't have any familiar major or supporting characters that hold that rank. Even if it was a minor or side character, why show it?
To say this is Shepard surviving the explosions aboard the Citadel is ludicrous. Let's start at the beginning of any ending. A dreadnought class Reaper (maybe Harbinger) is protecting the entry point to the Citadel, the one place that can undo the Reapers. So when you awake from the hit, it's leaves and is not looking to turn you into cinders? It's not even just sitting there protecting the portal. Shepard's armor is gone. No signs of it anywhere, no fragments of it. And Shepard limps, badly injured to the portal. The great hero Marauder Shields pumps a round in Shepard's shoulder but falls. You fight off the Illusive Man in whatever fashion (words or bullets), and check your blood loss while sitting with Anderson. Too weak to make it to the control panel, Shepard is ascended to the final decision. Shepard shoots the tube on the right, from a distance of 5....maybe 10 feet away? Massive explosion.
Now, you either believe he is on the Citadel still (even with the damn thing exploding) and covered in what very much looks to be stone debris on a very high-tech metal alloy Citadel...or he's back on Earth. So an unarmored man was either magically teleported underneath debris (with again no explanation) or somehow survived an unarmored, already near death fall from orbit?
I'm all for those who are fine with the ending, just tell me why. One previous commenter said (paraphrasing) 'Shepard makes the sacrifice, because how else could it end? The Reapers win, critical mission fail?' Ah ha. Actually....yes, yes it could. If this is art, and they can end it however, then yes a downer ending like in film or books is possible. To say that Shepard "has" to win, because this is the end of the trilogy and Shepard's story is false. You feel entitled to that ending, and you got it....no matter how vague. Take it at face value and move on, it met your base requirements. Hell, you even got the happy ending. The Normandy and crew is safe (with high enough EMS) and Shepard is a legend. The Normandy which somehow picked up your crew from Earth and knew enough to haul ass away from the battle in a full retreat to try and outrun a blast no one knew to expect. Question this, explain this, what did it all mean....why was this a good ending outside of face value? This is where the cracks get deeper.
Saying "it's the artists vision" feels like a wall to stand behind. I don't see Mac Walters and Casey Hudson sitting in a bunker somewhere wearing berets, smoking imported French cigarettes while holding each other and crying over the art. Did Casey Hudson appear teary-eyed in a home shot video shrieking "leave Britney...no wait, Mass Effect alone!!!"? No, they waited back to say anything until they could sell you their thoughts on the artistic process and ending for $2.99. Which you need to have a couple hundred dollar other item to view. The business aspect is back.
The very ending itself says that Shepard is a legend and you can build that legend through DLC! The quote from Dr Ray Muzyka highlights two things. One, the "score" of the game. You don't score art. It's like that scene from Dead Poets Society, where their textbook scored each piece of poetry based on meaning, technical prose, etc. It's a fallacy. Why are movies and books and albums scored? Because of the companies behind them that want to make money from it. Those companies don't care about the artistic integrity....they care about profits. The other complimentary comment was that any fan-reaction DLC will be done in addition to their already planned new games!
Let's take off the blinders folks. What profits are there in telling a story where you've brokered intergalactic peace and destroyed the enemy of all living beings? Prequels? Maybe...it worked for Halo Reach, and hell...it worked for Lucas. He made money, but how many people talk about fantastic and artsy Episodes I-III were? Problem is, you don't have a very large established history to work with outside of the first contact war...or maybe the Protheans. And would those sell? Even Halo is continuing on now with 4, minus Bungie. They told their story, but there are profits to be made. (EA is nodding their head right now).
At best for art, they left an open ending because they couldn't meet their promises from interviews of an individual, personalized ending based on your choices. So they went artsy and are willing to sell you their reasoning....and now a DLC ending. At worst they left it open so they could continue to churn the name of the franchise into additional titles without putting a definitive "end" on the story. The indoctrination camps says at worst , they planned this to sell DLC....alienating fans who may have played this game if not all three but don't go to the extent of keeping up with message boards and rumors. At best, they planned this reaction. The fan backlash, the articles exploding, and they step forward and say "we've been planning this all along". The indoctrination camp is saying "we believe in you Bioware. We don't believe you wanted to just milk us or leave us high and dry from an exposition standpoint. You are creating art in this "game outside of the game" back and forth and you are going to deliver."
They created publicity, they got tons of articles written....now reward the fans. Give us what you've been hiding up your sleeve the entire time.... If not, then I make my business decision and give my dollar to the company that delivers a full product. Make no mistake, the journey was fantastic, the games were great and molded by fan reaction. But if the end result is slight of hand at the cost of 59.99 for Mass Effect 4? No thanks. I'd have been on board for 6 of them if you tell me up front. Instead we get the complete package in DLC or sequel sized bites? It's like the new Assassin Creed games. If you want the end of Brotherhood to make sense....you have to buy the DLC from Revelations. That's the ugly possible side of all this.
Before we analyze the scene itself, let's look at how you get there. You have to have a high EMS score, which implies that you put forth the effort to be ready and save the world. You also have to choose the "destroy the reapers" option, this is the only way to get that scene. This is significant if you are looking for meaning in the art piece. Why did the artists choose to show this scene only under these conditions? Why is it significant? Taking things at face value, this is the "best ending" as called out by the official guide. It's like saying "this is the best draft of my manuscript" or "my best version of the same sketch".
So, let's review the scene itself. It shows a torso wearing an N7 dogtag suddenly taking a breath from underneath debris. Admittedly, the torso itself is hard to describe. Is that charred armor? Is it necessarily armor? The dogtag with the N7 designation leads us to believe this is Shepard. Because while the designation has been mentioned and James is applying for it, we don't have any familiar major or supporting characters that hold that rank. Even if it was a minor or side character, why show it?
To say this is Shepard surviving the explosions aboard the Citadel is ludicrous. Let's start at the beginning of any ending. A dreadnought class Reaper (maybe Harbinger) is protecting the entry point to the Citadel, the one place that can undo the Reapers. So when you awake from the hit, it's leaves and is not looking to turn you into cinders? It's not even just sitting there protecting the portal. Shepard's armor is gone. No signs of it anywhere, no fragments of it. And Shepard limps, badly injured to the portal. The great hero Marauder Shields pumps a round in Shepard's shoulder but falls. You fight off the Illusive Man in whatever fashion (words or bullets), and check your blood loss while sitting with Anderson. Too weak to make it to the control panel, Shepard is ascended to the final decision. Shepard shoots the tube on the right, from a distance of 5....maybe 10 feet away? Massive explosion.
Now, you either believe he is on the Citadel still (even with the damn thing exploding) and covered in what very much looks to be stone debris on a very high-tech metal alloy Citadel...or he's back on Earth. So an unarmored man was either magically teleported underneath debris (with again no explanation) or somehow survived an unarmored, already near death fall from orbit?
I'm all for those who are fine with the ending, just tell me why. One previous commenter said (paraphrasing) 'Shepard makes the sacrifice, because how else could it end? The Reapers win, critical mission fail?' Ah ha. Actually....yes, yes it could. If this is art, and they can end it however, then yes a downer ending like in film or books is possible. To say that Shepard "has" to win, because this is the end of the trilogy and Shepard's story is false. You feel entitled to that ending, and you got it....no matter how vague. Take it at face value and move on, it met your base requirements. Hell, you even got the happy ending. The Normandy and crew is safe (with high enough EMS) and Shepard is a legend. The Normandy which somehow picked up your crew from Earth and knew enough to haul ass away from the battle in a full retreat to try and outrun a blast no one knew to expect. Question this, explain this, what did it all mean....why was this a good ending outside of face value? This is where the cracks get deeper.
Saying "it's the artists vision" feels like a wall to stand behind. I don't see Mac Walters and Casey Hudson sitting in a bunker somewhere wearing berets, smoking imported French cigarettes while holding each other and crying over the art. Did Casey Hudson appear teary-eyed in a home shot video shrieking "leave Britney...no wait, Mass Effect alone!!!"? No, they waited back to say anything until they could sell you their thoughts on the artistic process and ending for $2.99. Which you need to have a couple hundred dollar other item to view. The business aspect is back.
The very ending itself says that Shepard is a legend and you can build that legend through DLC! The quote from Dr Ray Muzyka highlights two things. One, the "score" of the game. You don't score art. It's like that scene from Dead Poets Society, where their textbook scored each piece of poetry based on meaning, technical prose, etc. It's a fallacy. Why are movies and books and albums scored? Because of the companies behind them that want to make money from it. Those companies don't care about the artistic integrity....they care about profits. The other complimentary comment was that any fan-reaction DLC will be done in addition to their already planned new games!
Let's take off the blinders folks. What profits are there in telling a story where you've brokered intergalactic peace and destroyed the enemy of all living beings? Prequels? Maybe...it worked for Halo Reach, and hell...it worked for Lucas. He made money, but how many people talk about fantastic and artsy Episodes I-III were? Problem is, you don't have a very large established history to work with outside of the first contact war...or maybe the Protheans. And would those sell? Even Halo is continuing on now with 4, minus Bungie. They told their story, but there are profits to be made. (EA is nodding their head right now).
At best for art, they left an open ending because they couldn't meet their promises from interviews of an individual, personalized ending based on your choices. So they went artsy and are willing to sell you their reasoning....and now a DLC ending. At worst they left it open so they could continue to churn the name of the franchise into additional titles without putting a definitive "end" on the story. The indoctrination camps says at worst , they planned this to sell DLC....alienating fans who may have played this game if not all three but don't go to the extent of keeping up with message boards and rumors. At best, they planned this reaction. The fan backlash, the articles exploding, and they step forward and say "we've been planning this all along". The indoctrination camp is saying "we believe in you Bioware. We don't believe you wanted to just milk us or leave us high and dry from an exposition standpoint. You are creating art in this "game outside of the game" back and forth and you are going to deliver."
They created publicity, they got tons of articles written....now reward the fans. Give us what you've been hiding up your sleeve the entire time.... If not, then I make my business decision and give my dollar to the company that delivers a full product. Make no mistake, the journey was fantastic, the games were great and molded by fan reaction. But if the end result is slight of hand at the cost of 59.99 for Mass Effect 4? No thanks. I'd have been on board for 6 of them if you tell me up front. Instead we get the complete package in DLC or sequel sized bites? It's like the new Assassin Creed games. If you want the end of Brotherhood to make sense....you have to buy the DLC from Revelations. That's the ugly possible side of all this.
I'm sure there's even a few more points I'm forgetting to make...I might amend later. But for now, those are the reasons I have issue with the "art defense". Please discuss in a civilized manner.
sendme
CAGiversary!
I don't think the debate should be about the art or not when it comes to the ending. Changing the ending would be like asking the writer of a book, movie or tv show to change the ending just because you don't like it. If this is the ending the team that wrote the game want to have then fine even if I don't like it I will have to be okay with it. The game being are has nothing to do with the debate of changing the ending.
Ink.So.Well.
CAGiversary!
[quote name='gotdott']Bonus xp? Boring...time to promote some more I guess..[/QUOTE]
Pretty much not that I'll actually be around to take advantage of it. Hopefully next week offers something better to the table.
Pretty much not that I'll actually be around to take advantage of it. Hopefully next week offers something better to the table.
As with all opinions, they will vary, as will your interpretations of the form in which you are considering. Here is my take and opinion on a few of the recent posts (and I LOVE the discussions here and how they range from the MULTIPLAYA and Marauder Shields!!, to games as art debate, to the ending debacle and Gaming journalism vs corporate brown noising elitist asshats lol, you guys are awesome) this may be long.. edit: yep it is.
I have been an avid, culturally engrained, part of my character and personal life gamer, collector, and cinephile since I was 5 years old when first introduced to Arcades and Nintendo back in 1985. I live, breath, and shit entertainment media. I wear Mass Effect Hoodies and Super Mario hats to work. I play Wii with my kids, I giggled like a school girl when my Mass Effect 3 Promo version from a journalist in Australia showed up the same day as my Mass Effect Sealed Japanese version to my door. I read Game Informer and OXM on the shitter, I take my ME3 CE guide to read on breaks. I managed a video store for several years and even had an online store dealing Video Game, Comic Book, and Movie swag. I had over 5,000 VHS and 3,000 DVD’s at one time as well as a collection of 25,000 comic books… I dear gamers, am one of the biggest geeks/nerds you will meet. (also 6’ 3” and 250lbs) so… big.
In all this time I have always appreciated entertainment media as an art form. Art is meant to inspire interpretation of emotion through individual expression. Not giving something a label because you do not feel it is entitled although it provides all the characteristics of the label, is just like saying the platypus is not a mammal because it lays eggs. It may not fit the long standing theory of the populace and what it considers a mammal, yet it remains one none the less. When I go to the art gallery with the fam, I like to look at pieces and wonder what the painter wanted me to see. So I look at it in the mid set of someone else expressing outward their emotion and expression into a physical work for others to pull that meaning from it. The greatness of art, is that someone next to me. can view this piece and say, “this makes me feel warm, and reminds me of the sun on a hillside. “ when the whole time I am thinking to myself, “This looks like an egg sunny side up on a dinner plate, I want IHOP.” Neither of us is wrong, and yet both of us may be completely removed the artists vision of what they wanted to convey. Inspiring this inside someone who takes the time to click their imagination into gear and pull meaning from expression, is defining art as a form of communication from cave walls to LCD monitors.
While a single painting done by one person is generally regarded as the staple comparison for “Art”, taking teams of people to release an interactive painting that speaks, shoots, and has sex with aliens makes it no less an expression of their work to an audience through a common visionary goal of the project. The theory of “everything is art” is contrived to a common phrase as it holds true to the fact that depending on the audience and to what you are experiencing, anything can be art in some form. The only thing you need is a basis of comparison in your mind as to which to compare these works to produce your emotional response. Because we all have different ways of thinking and different life experiences, we will come to different conclusions. When I see a rock, I compare it to the first cave crystal I saw as a teenager, others may have never seen one and can only compare it to a river rock they saw when fishing.
Games, especially in my case, the Mass Effect series, is one of the definitive forms of expression of art in the medium. Not only does it adopt visual storytelling, artistic expression, musical scores, cinematography, acting, painting, drawing, digital imaging, etc… it also adopts a sweeping and massive scope to encourage the player to invest and immerse into their art in a way no painting has ever done for me. Paintings have never given me a galaxy filled with diverse cultures, religions, beliefs, politics, drama, love, betrayal, hate, and philosophy… unless any of those things were conveyed from the artist in it. Mass Effect conveys all of these things to me. The Salesman painting of the man in the Bowler hat with a green apple over his face is a prime example to me. I love the piece, it provokes anonymity and a picture of an universal conformity of what the artist probably thought everyone would assume a door to door salesman was through his eyes. But then left it with no recognizable face or discerning feature other than that distinctive hat. To me, it says, you can be a faceless and universally classified type of person, but even through the effort to make it anonymous and without character, inspires thoughts of individuality by propping that uniquely shaped hat atop their head. Did the faceless salesman put it on? Why didn’t the artist just give him a standard “could be on anyone” hairstyle? Why the apple instead of a blank space of featureless face?
To me this is art in action. In Mass Effect (as well as other games) I notice these subtle and characteristic touches everywhere in the series, from how certain characters carry themselves, to where little items are placed in the world. You can see the expression of the artist(s), appreciate the depth and passion put into it, relate to and enjoy the characters, take sides in their beliefs and views, hear the sounds of the ships and cities, feel the tensions, have your hairs raise during the cinematics, feel the emotion in the music… it is in this that you can appreciate this Epic series for what it truly is, a work of art.
Ok, now for Snipers in MP – a good one that can actually shoot it and uses it with a class that can utilize it, can be a HUGE game saver. One that just likes to use it because they wanna be a sniper, often sucks ass.
Destructiod = overhyped gaming blog with little credibility to me personally.
Masss Effect = Winning
O’doyle Rules.
I’m Out.
I have been an avid, culturally engrained, part of my character and personal life gamer, collector, and cinephile since I was 5 years old when first introduced to Arcades and Nintendo back in 1985. I live, breath, and shit entertainment media. I wear Mass Effect Hoodies and Super Mario hats to work. I play Wii with my kids, I giggled like a school girl when my Mass Effect 3 Promo version from a journalist in Australia showed up the same day as my Mass Effect Sealed Japanese version to my door. I read Game Informer and OXM on the shitter, I take my ME3 CE guide to read on breaks. I managed a video store for several years and even had an online store dealing Video Game, Comic Book, and Movie swag. I had over 5,000 VHS and 3,000 DVD’s at one time as well as a collection of 25,000 comic books… I dear gamers, am one of the biggest geeks/nerds you will meet. (also 6’ 3” and 250lbs) so… big.
In all this time I have always appreciated entertainment media as an art form. Art is meant to inspire interpretation of emotion through individual expression. Not giving something a label because you do not feel it is entitled although it provides all the characteristics of the label, is just like saying the platypus is not a mammal because it lays eggs. It may not fit the long standing theory of the populace and what it considers a mammal, yet it remains one none the less. When I go to the art gallery with the fam, I like to look at pieces and wonder what the painter wanted me to see. So I look at it in the mid set of someone else expressing outward their emotion and expression into a physical work for others to pull that meaning from it. The greatness of art, is that someone next to me. can view this piece and say, “this makes me feel warm, and reminds me of the sun on a hillside. “ when the whole time I am thinking to myself, “This looks like an egg sunny side up on a dinner plate, I want IHOP.” Neither of us is wrong, and yet both of us may be completely removed the artists vision of what they wanted to convey. Inspiring this inside someone who takes the time to click their imagination into gear and pull meaning from expression, is defining art as a form of communication from cave walls to LCD monitors.
While a single painting done by one person is generally regarded as the staple comparison for “Art”, taking teams of people to release an interactive painting that speaks, shoots, and has sex with aliens makes it no less an expression of their work to an audience through a common visionary goal of the project. The theory of “everything is art” is contrived to a common phrase as it holds true to the fact that depending on the audience and to what you are experiencing, anything can be art in some form. The only thing you need is a basis of comparison in your mind as to which to compare these works to produce your emotional response. Because we all have different ways of thinking and different life experiences, we will come to different conclusions. When I see a rock, I compare it to the first cave crystal I saw as a teenager, others may have never seen one and can only compare it to a river rock they saw when fishing.
Games, especially in my case, the Mass Effect series, is one of the definitive forms of expression of art in the medium. Not only does it adopt visual storytelling, artistic expression, musical scores, cinematography, acting, painting, drawing, digital imaging, etc… it also adopts a sweeping and massive scope to encourage the player to invest and immerse into their art in a way no painting has ever done for me. Paintings have never given me a galaxy filled with diverse cultures, religions, beliefs, politics, drama, love, betrayal, hate, and philosophy… unless any of those things were conveyed from the artist in it. Mass Effect conveys all of these things to me. The Salesman painting of the man in the Bowler hat with a green apple over his face is a prime example to me. I love the piece, it provokes anonymity and a picture of an universal conformity of what the artist probably thought everyone would assume a door to door salesman was through his eyes. But then left it with no recognizable face or discerning feature other than that distinctive hat. To me, it says, you can be a faceless and universally classified type of person, but even through the effort to make it anonymous and without character, inspires thoughts of individuality by propping that uniquely shaped hat atop their head. Did the faceless salesman put it on? Why didn’t the artist just give him a standard “could be on anyone” hairstyle? Why the apple instead of a blank space of featureless face?
To me this is art in action. In Mass Effect (as well as other games) I notice these subtle and characteristic touches everywhere in the series, from how certain characters carry themselves, to where little items are placed in the world. You can see the expression of the artist(s), appreciate the depth and passion put into it, relate to and enjoy the characters, take sides in their beliefs and views, hear the sounds of the ships and cities, feel the tensions, have your hairs raise during the cinematics, feel the emotion in the music… it is in this that you can appreciate this Epic series for what it truly is, a work of art.
Ok, now for Snipers in MP – a good one that can actually shoot it and uses it with a class that can utilize it, can be a HUGE game saver. One that just likes to use it because they wanna be a sniper, often sucks ass.
Destructiod = overhyped gaming blog with little credibility to me personally.
Masss Effect = Winning
O’doyle Rules.
I’m Out.
chubbyninja1319
CAGiversary!
While everyone else is whining about the ending or other nonsensical BS, I'll be taking aim in Operation: Fortress this weekend. See everyone online!! Time to level up my Engineer and start my infiltrator.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/23/operation-fortress/
Welcome to the next N7 multiplayer weekend!
Last weekend the community joined together to push back the reapers in Operation Goliath. With over 3 million brutes killed, their numbers have been decimated. Expect to encounter far fewer this weekend.
As a reward for that outstanding performance, join your friends online between 5 PM PST Friday, March 23 and 5 AM PST Monday, March 26, to reap the rewards of last weekend’s successful offensive with a 25% XP bonus.
- All enemies.
- All maps.
- All challenge levels.
- All platforms (PS3 included).
- All weekend.
To participate, you will need to play Mass Effect 3 multiplayer during the listed time period. That’s it. The bonus applies to all XP earned. Gather your squad and take advantage! You’ll want to be leveled up for next weekend’s event…
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/23/operation-fortress/
Welcome to the next N7 multiplayer weekend!
Last weekend the community joined together to push back the reapers in Operation Goliath. With over 3 million brutes killed, their numbers have been decimated. Expect to encounter far fewer this weekend.
As a reward for that outstanding performance, join your friends online between 5 PM PST Friday, March 23 and 5 AM PST Monday, March 26, to reap the rewards of last weekend’s successful offensive with a 25% XP bonus.
- All enemies.
- All maps.
- All challenge levels.
- All platforms (PS3 included).
- All weekend.
To participate, you will need to play Mass Effect 3 multiplayer during the listed time period. That’s it. The bonus applies to all XP earned. Gather your squad and take advantage! You’ll want to be leveled up for next weekend’s event…
[quote name='6er']Concerning the overall story, If you took all the Star Trek and Resistance ( game) elements out of this trilogy, would there be anything left?[/QUOTE]
Even if this shit was a western, I'm pretty sure I would fall in love with MordinThaneWrexGruntLiaraLegionMirandaSamaraJackJokerBlastoetc all over again (
Tali)
Even if this shit was a western, I'm pretty sure I would fall in love with MordinThaneWrexGruntLiaraLegionMirandaSamaraJackJokerBlastoetc all over again (
Tali)
ActionKazimer
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 102 (100%)
[quote name='gotdott'] ( Tali)[/QUOTE]
My man. Down with the Quarians! Stupid space gypsies.
This weekend's not doing much for me since I have no real intention to ever promote my characters. If it caps at 120 without promotions, I'm sure that's where I'll stay.
Tali)[/QUOTE]My man. Down with the Quarians! Stupid space gypsies.
This weekend's not doing much for me since I have no real intention to ever promote my characters. If it caps at 120 without promotions, I'm sure that's where I'll stay.
[quote name='6er']Concerning the overall story, If you took all the Star Trek and Resistance ( game) elements out of this trilogy, would there be anything left?[/QUOTE]
Have you played them? That is about the only thing I can come up with sorry. If all you take away from this franchise is Star Trek and Resistance, the overall story is massively more involved and dissimilar than it being in space and having aliens.
Have you played them? That is about the only thing I can come up with sorry. If all you take away from this franchise is Star Trek and Resistance, the overall story is massively more involved and dissimilar than it being in space and having aliens.
[quote name='IanKazimer']My man. Down with the Quarians! Stupid space gypsies.
This weekend's not doing much for me since I have no real intention to ever promote my characters. If it caps at 120 without promotions, I'm sure that's where I'll stay.[/QUOTE]
the nice thing about promoting is you can respec your MP characters if you wanted a different build...without having to use or try and get a respec card of which I have 2 now. (sighs)
after the tweaks, im glad i was able to respec the quarian infiltrator...berserk isnt as great as it used to be but the 100% bonus to damage with tech power is pretty mighty.
This weekend's not doing much for me since I have no real intention to ever promote my characters. If it caps at 120 without promotions, I'm sure that's where I'll stay.[/QUOTE]
the nice thing about promoting is you can respec your MP characters if you wanted a different build...without having to use or try and get a respec card of which I have 2 now. (sighs)
after the tweaks, im glad i was able to respec the quarian infiltrator...berserk isnt as great as it used to be but the 100% bonus to damage with tech power is pretty mighty.
[quote name='100xp']the nice thing about promoting is you can respec your MP characters if you wanted a different build...without having to use or try and get a respec card of which I have 2 now. (sighs)
after the tweaks, im glad i was able to respec the quarian infiltrator...berserk isnt as great as it used to be but the 100% bonus to damage with tech power is pretty mighty.[/QUOTE]
I have like 22 respec cards -__-
after the tweaks, im glad i was able to respec the quarian infiltrator...berserk isnt as great as it used to be but the 100% bonus to damage with tech power is pretty mighty.[/QUOTE]
I have like 22 respec cards -__-
[quote name='Freemason']As with all opinions, they will vary, as will your interpretations of the form in which you are considering. Here is my take and opinion on a few of the recent posts (and I LOVE the discussions here and how they range from the MULTIPLAYA and Marauder Shields!!, to games as art debate, to the ending debacle and Gaming journalism vs corporate brown noising elitist asshats lol, you guys are awesome) this may be long.. edit: yep it is.[/QUOTE]
It's just really cool to see how far video games have come with the help of the Mass Effect series.
I do enjoy the music a lot, the sfx is top notch as well. I've only been playing with a 5.1 headset for the past few weeks because playing the game with TV speakers just doesn't do the sound designer/composer's justice.
This was mentioned in a Kotaku article (blog?) but I noticed it right away when I got to see the Normandy on Earth, as I've got a musical ear (they played the Normandy theme as it comes swooping down to save Shepard).
Edit: OK now that I've read http://kotaku.com/5895829/mass-effect-3-outcry-answered-with-a-new-ending-for-a-completely-different-game?popular=true I can't seem to think this ending is on purpose.
It's just really cool to see how far video games have come with the help of the Mass Effect series.
I do enjoy the music a lot, the sfx is top notch as well. I've only been playing with a 5.1 headset for the past few weeks because playing the game with TV speakers just doesn't do the sound designer/composer's justice.
This was mentioned in a Kotaku article (blog?) but I noticed it right away when I got to see the Normandy on Earth, as I've got a musical ear (they played the Normandy theme as it comes swooping down to save Shepard).
Edit: OK now that I've read http://kotaku.com/5895829/mass-effect-3-outcry-answered-with-a-new-ending-for-a-completely-different-game?popular=true I can't seem to think this ending is on purpose.
Last edited by a moderator:
Salamando3000
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 14 (100%)
Question - How exactly does the reputation system work in this one?
I know they made it less of a deal to be pure paragon or pure renegade. Twas my understanding that Reputation mattered most...game checks to see if you have the Rep, and if you do, it allows you to choose the paragon and/or the renegade text'd options based on what your rep bar is full with. I played through the game choosing the options I liked best, ending up rather neutral (~50% renegade, ~50% paragon) with a full bar. Throughout the entire game, there wasn't a single gray option, until
. What happened?
I know they made it less of a deal to be pure paragon or pure renegade. Twas my understanding that Reputation mattered most...game checks to see if you have the Rep, and if you do, it allows you to choose the paragon and/or the renegade text'd options based on what your rep bar is full with. I played through the game choosing the options I liked best, ending up rather neutral (~50% renegade, ~50% paragon) with a full bar. Throughout the entire game, there wasn't a single gray option, until
the final dialog choice with the Illusive Man
[quote name='Salamando3000']Question - How exactly does the reputation system work in this one?
I know they made it less of a deal to be pure paragon or pure renegade. Twas my understanding that Reputation mattered most...game checks to see if you have the Rep, and if you do, it allows you to choose the paragon and/or the renegade text'd options based on what your rep bar is full with. I played through the game choosing the options I liked best, ending up rather neutral (~50% renegade, ~50% paragon) with a full bar. Throughout the entire game, there wasn't a single gray option, until
. What happened?[/QUOTE]
As I understand it you need to have a full bar of Paragon for that one.
I had a profile in ME2 which instead of picking the top or bottom, like I always do, I picked the middle neutral options. Having such a difference at the end due to that was satisfying and shocking at the same time. I've kind of grown accustomed to focus on one or the other, never go 50/50.
I know they made it less of a deal to be pure paragon or pure renegade. Twas my understanding that Reputation mattered most...game checks to see if you have the Rep, and if you do, it allows you to choose the paragon and/or the renegade text'd options based on what your rep bar is full with. I played through the game choosing the options I liked best, ending up rather neutral (~50% renegade, ~50% paragon) with a full bar. Throughout the entire game, there wasn't a single gray option, until
the final dialog choice with the Illusive Man
As I understand it you need to have a full bar of Paragon for that one.
I had a profile in ME2 which instead of picking the top or bottom, like I always do, I picked the middle neutral options. Having such a difference at the end due to that was satisfying and shocking at the same time. I've kind of grown accustomed to focus on one or the other, never go 50/50.
Lord_Kefka
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 39 (100%)
[quote name='Salamando3000']Question - How exactly does the reputation system work in this one?
I know they made it less of a deal to be pure paragon or pure renegade. Twas my understanding that Reputation mattered most...game checks to see if you have the Rep, and if you do, it allows you to choose the paragon and/or the renegade text'd options based on what your rep bar is full with. I played through the game choosing the options I liked best, ending up rather neutral (~50% renegade, ~50% paragon) with a full bar. Throughout the entire game, there wasn't a single gray option, until
. What happened?[/QUOTE]
I believe
I know they made it less of a deal to be pure paragon or pure renegade. Twas my understanding that Reputation mattered most...game checks to see if you have the Rep, and if you do, it allows you to choose the paragon and/or the renegade text'd options based on what your rep bar is full with. I played through the game choosing the options I liked best, ending up rather neutral (~50% renegade, ~50% paragon) with a full bar. Throughout the entire game, there wasn't a single gray option, until
the final dialog choice with the Illusive Man
I believe
that your conversations along the way with him snowball. For example, if you have a high enough reputation when you first speak, you should have had the unique left side blue or red conversation options. You have to consistently keep this level of persuasion going anytime you speak to him. If you change up conversation styles or use a grey right side one, you lose that momentum.
ActionKazimer
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 102 (100%)
[quote name='100xp']speaking of music...i really should redeem my soundtrack this weekend.[/QUOTE]
You really should. And then listen to the track "Mars" on a loop for a few days. Shit's so good.
You really should. And then listen to the track "Mars" on a loop for a few days. Shit's so good.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
Man I wish the MP was more diverse, I dislike almost all of the generic already built classes. Plus I just found out you are capped at 20 which isnt a big deal other than it basically just forcing me to only play for gold runs.
havent found a build I liked yet. I guess more playing is in order.
havent found a build I liked yet. I guess more playing is in order.
Raccoon2117
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Lord_Kefka']
I liked Racoon's counter-argument above, but I don't agree with all of it. And healthy debate on the subject should be encouraged as an exchange of ideas. Gaming in general loses a little bit of that artistic credibility when it sells you additional components of the art piece as DLC. There was a good image that showed the Mona Lisa broken up into pieces with parts taken out as price-tagged DLC. [/QUOTE]
Thank you. I honestly don't expect anyone to fully agree with me. In fact, I hate making long drawn-out posts like that for the sheer backlash that comes from it. All I wanted to try to do was get my opinion on the ending (and really the greater argument that seems to be arising) in the best way I could in a succinct manner.
As for the ending,
As for the soundtrack, I enjoy all of the songs, but Surkesh is probably the one I enjoy the most. I'd definitely recommend downloading the soundtrack if you can.
I'll also be on to play some multiplayer over the weekend if anyone wishes to play. Last night was surprisingly rougher than the first night, though I'm sure a lot of that can be attributed to my "multitasking".
I liked Racoon's counter-argument above, but I don't agree with all of it. And healthy debate on the subject should be encouraged as an exchange of ideas. Gaming in general loses a little bit of that artistic credibility when it sells you additional components of the art piece as DLC. There was a good image that showed the Mona Lisa broken up into pieces with parts taken out as price-tagged DLC. [/QUOTE]
Thank you. I honestly don't expect anyone to fully agree with me. In fact, I hate making long drawn-out posts like that for the sheer backlash that comes from it. All I wanted to try to do was get my opinion on the ending (and really the greater argument that seems to be arising) in the best way I could in a succinct manner.
As for the ending,
I think a lot of it has to do with the ending you chose. With the ending I got from synthesis, I found the lack of choice to be a telling point. That for all the choices you make, there are still times when you simply can't escape a certain fate.
I chose synthesis because I couldn't see the geth and EDI be destroyed for the purpose of destroying the Reapers. I myself found it a bit grating to see Shepard become increasingly obsessed solely with destruction of the Reapers at any cost as though they were his own "white whale".
Rather, the synthesis ending brings hope. Hope that the organics versus synthetics (which had been one of those underlying conflicts during the series) fight that not only was a problem in the current cycle but in past cycles could come to an end.
That isn't to say there aren't problems with the ending. I'm still confused on how Liara and Garrus, the two I chose as my squad, got on the Normandy while Kaidan (saved from ME1) and James are nowhere to be found. And I still can't quite tell if the grandfather and grandson talking at the end is a telling of the legend of Shepard and a verbal retelling of the events that happened quite some time ago or a fictional story.
As for the DLC (which I hope is actually free if the developers choose to alter the ending--but I'm not holding my breath given who owns Bioware), all I was trying to say was that I want Bioware to do it because they feel a need to explain better what they made the ending. Not as a response to fan anger. (That and as I mentioned this morning, I don't know how it would work without being worse than being given a deus ex machina moment.) Art should be enjoyed, critiqued, loved, hated. But I think there's a problem when the public at large (for any medium) demands the artist or creators alter it. Of course, perhaps my opinion that it not changed is based on what's going on in my own line of work.
I chose synthesis because I couldn't see the geth and EDI be destroyed for the purpose of destroying the Reapers. I myself found it a bit grating to see Shepard become increasingly obsessed solely with destruction of the Reapers at any cost as though they were his own "white whale".
Rather, the synthesis ending brings hope. Hope that the organics versus synthetics (which had been one of those underlying conflicts during the series) fight that not only was a problem in the current cycle but in past cycles could come to an end.
That isn't to say there aren't problems with the ending. I'm still confused on how Liara and Garrus, the two I chose as my squad, got on the Normandy while Kaidan (saved from ME1) and James are nowhere to be found. And I still can't quite tell if the grandfather and grandson talking at the end is a telling of the legend of Shepard and a verbal retelling of the events that happened quite some time ago or a fictional story.
As for the DLC (which I hope is actually free if the developers choose to alter the ending--but I'm not holding my breath given who owns Bioware), all I was trying to say was that I want Bioware to do it because they feel a need to explain better what they made the ending. Not as a response to fan anger. (That and as I mentioned this morning, I don't know how it would work without being worse than being given a deus ex machina moment.) Art should be enjoyed, critiqued, loved, hated. But I think there's a problem when the public at large (for any medium) demands the artist or creators alter it. Of course, perhaps my opinion that it not changed is based on what's going on in my own line of work.
As for the soundtrack, I enjoy all of the songs, but Surkesh is probably the one I enjoy the most. I'd definitely recommend downloading the soundtrack if you can.
I'll also be on to play some multiplayer over the weekend if anyone wishes to play. Last night was surprisingly rougher than the first night, though I'm sure a lot of that can be attributed to my "multitasking".
Monsta Mack
CAGiversary!
Man the rage online has just put this game to a 2 star rating on Amazon.
Really? REALLY?
Really? REALLY?
goodbyetonight
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 16 (100%)
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Man the rage online has just put this game to a 2 star rating on Amazon.
Really? REALLY?[/QUOTE]
I saw that, that's freakin ridiculous. Yeah, the ending is crap but the rest of the game is great.
I want one of those N7 hoodies too but $74 + shipping is a bit much.
Really? REALLY?[/QUOTE]
I saw that, that's freakin ridiculous. Yeah, the ending is crap but the rest of the game is great.
I want one of those N7 hoodies too but $74 + shipping is a bit much.
[quote name='MSUHitman']FYI the soundtrack from the CE is a Zip file and the music files when unzipped are .wav files. I'm having a horrible time finding a program that will work w/Win 7 64-bit to convert the .wav files to .mp3.[/QUOTE]
dbpoweramp was always good to me.
dbpoweramp was always good to me.
[quote name='Mad39er']dbpoweramp was always good to me.[/QUOTE]
Thanks but anyone know of an option that doesn't cost $38?
Edit: NM found one: http://download.cnet.com/Switch-Sound-File-Converter-Plus/3000-2140_4-10327491.html
Thanks but anyone know of an option that doesn't cost $38?
Edit: NM found one: http://download.cnet.com/Switch-Sound-File-Converter-Plus/3000-2140_4-10327491.html
Raccoon2117
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Man the rage online has just put this game to a 2 star rating on Amazon.
Really? REALLY?[/QUOTE]
People have really lost it.
Really? REALLY?[/QUOTE]
People have really lost it.
[quote name='Raccoon2117']People have really lost it.[/QUOTE]
They have. It is great that so many show so much passion for the series that they feel such reactions are are required, but anyone giving this title 2 and 1 star "reviews" (most are troll bashing jump on the bandwagon and scream money grab types) are insutling the very thing they wish to defend. This game wasing brilliant and beautiful. I am starting another trilogy playthrough just to experince it all again for the fourth time, a feat NO other title or franchise has ever been able to make me do.
If the ME universe continues, i would LOVE a prequel timeline showing our origin into the galactic race, the First Contact War. Andersons journey to almost being the first Spectre and his betrayal by Saren in the Skyllian Blitz, more info on Shepards Mother and her ship, the Hanar/Drell relationship, Garrus in C-Sec, the Geth/Quarian exodus on Rannoch, The Rachni War and the beginnign of the Genophage, all of that.
I am glad the universe will continue, even if not through Shepards' eyes, but there a lot of other characters and heroes, and so much more story that can be told.
They have. It is great that so many show so much passion for the series that they feel such reactions are are required, but anyone giving this title 2 and 1 star "reviews" (most are troll bashing jump on the bandwagon and scream money grab types) are insutling the very thing they wish to defend. This game was
ing brilliant and beautiful. I am starting another trilogy playthrough just to experince it all again for the fourth time, a feat NO other title or franchise has ever been able to make me do.If the ME universe continues, i would LOVE a prequel timeline showing our origin into the galactic race, the First Contact War. Andersons journey to almost being the first Spectre and his betrayal by Saren in the Skyllian Blitz, more info on Shepards Mother and her ship, the Hanar/Drell relationship, Garrus in C-Sec, the Geth/Quarian exodus on Rannoch, The Rachni War and the beginnign of the Genophage, all of that.
I am glad the universe will continue, even if not through Shepards' eyes, but there a lot of other characters and heroes, and so much more story that can be told.
bread's done