May 1 immigrant boycott aims to 'close' cities
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Metal Boss
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Nightmare
I hate those types of protests where people block roads and all that nonsense. I also hope that anyone who misses work unexcused is gets a penalty at work and any kid who cuts school gets detention (maybe that's harsh but this kind of stuff gets me very angry!)
""We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," "
Let them earn it like everyone else had to do
""We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," "
Let them earn it like everyone else had to do
niceguyshawne
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[quote name='YoshiFan1']I hate those types of protests where people block roads and all that nonsense. I also hope that anyone who misses work unexcused is gets a penalty at work and any kid who cuts school gets detention (maybe that's harsh but this kind of stuff gets me very angry!)
""We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," "
Let them earn it like everyone else had to do[/QUOTE]
May I ask what you had to do to "earn it?"
""We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," "
Let them earn it like everyone else had to do[/QUOTE]
May I ask what you had to do to "earn it?"
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='niceguyshawne']May I ask what you had to do to "earn it?"[/QUOTE]
His first wave of ancestors that came to this country had to learn to speak english and become a citizen. Yes, the people born into this country may be 'lucky' but that doesn't mean everyone that wants to come here now gets a free ride.
His first wave of ancestors that came to this country had to learn to speak english and become a citizen. Yes, the people born into this country may be 'lucky' but that doesn't mean everyone that wants to come here now gets a free ride.
Vampire Hunter D
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ing beaners. On a side note its interesting how here in Western Penn. theres not that many illegals its as if we are domed off from the rest of the country when it comes to them.zionoverfire
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Do they just want to piss off the average american more?
guardian_owl
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[quote name='zionoverfire']Do they just want to piss off the average american more?[/quote]
I am guessing they are trying to convey the message "Don't with us or the fit will hit the shan"
I am guessing they are trying to convey the message "Don't
with us or the fit will hit the shan"
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Vampire Hunter D']ing beaners. On a side note its interesting how here in Western Penn. theres not that many illegals its as if we are domed off from the rest of the country when it comes to them.[/quote]
Why does it seem like you only make a post when you can state your hatred of a particular ethnic or religious group?
ing beaners. On a side note its interesting how here in Western Penn. theres not that many illegals its as if we are domed off from the rest of the country when it comes to them.[/quote]Why does it seem like you only make a post when you can state your hatred of a particular ethnic or religious group?
crazytalkx
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[quote name='Vampire Hunter D']ing beaners. [/QUOTE]
Oh gee that isn't offensive at all you racist piece of shit
ing beaners. [/QUOTE]Oh gee that isn't offensive at all you racist piece of shit
zionoverfire
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[quote name='guardian_owl']I am guessing they are trying to convey the message "Don't with us or the fit will hit the shan"[/quote]
Yes I'm sure the fearful masses will take it exactly like that.:lol:
Oh well you can't stop someone from digging their own grave, I look forward to a big turnout.
with us or the fit will hit the shan"[/quote]Yes I'm sure the fearful masses will take it exactly like that.:lol:
Oh well you can't stop someone from digging their own grave, I look forward to a big turnout.
Vampire Hunter D
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Hey this is the political board, the few posts i happen to make here just happen to be agaisnt illegals and muslims which are political issues. Its pretty hard for me to make a snappy comeback whenever im challenged so i just post and then get out.
niceguyshawne
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[quote name='Vampire Hunter D']ing beaners. On a side note its interesting how here in Western Penn. theres not that many illegals its as if we are domed off from the rest of the country when it comes to them.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure your Klan meetin's help keep Western Penn. "domed off."
ing beaners. On a side note its interesting how here in Western Penn. theres not that many illegals its as if we are domed off from the rest of the country when it comes to them.[/QUOTE]I'm sure your Klan meetin's help keep Western Penn. "domed off."
niceguyshawne
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[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']His first wave of ancestors that came to this country had to learn to speak english and become a citizen. Yes, the people born into this country may be 'lucky' but that doesn't mean everyone that wants to come here now gets a free ride.[/QUOTE]
One could argue that demonstrations like this are their way of "earning it."
One could argue that demonstrations like this are their way of "earning it."
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='niceguyshawne']One could argue that demonstrations like this are their way of "earning it."[/QUOTE]
Yes but that would be wrong. Would I be "earning" a living by killing your family and taking their money? This stuff shouldn't turn into a semantics game, there are already laws in place regarding immigration so what exactly is the problem?
Yes but that would be wrong. Would I be "earning" a living by killing your family and taking their money? This stuff shouldn't turn into a semantics game, there are already laws in place regarding immigration so what exactly is the problem?
RBM
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[quote name='niceguyshawne']One could argue that demonstrations like this are their way of "earning it."[/quote]
That's an odd way of looking at it. People who immigrate here legally (i.e. wait in (a long) line, wade through a small ocean of bureaucracy in order to register in the system as a permanent resident & eventually as a citizen) wait years just for the chance to get here & work hard for a living and a chance at a better life.
People who immigrate here illegally bypass the years of waiting and the bureaucracy, and they start directly on the process of working hard for a living to improve their lives. Somehow, this "working hard" part strikes them as some justification for acknowledgement by the system (i.e. with the rights of legal citizenship.) As if toiling hard for a living confers some rights. All immigrants wind up working hard. Those who obey the legal requirements of immigration reap the benefits of obeying the immigration laws, however.
It seems to me that illegal immigrants already received their "payment" up front: when they blithely marched past everybody else who was waiting for entry. Now, they simply dislike the consequences of having snuck in. Marching in a protest? Hardly an equitable "cost" compared to going through the legal process.
[edit: I don't believe that illegal immigrants trying to protest their way into legality are asking for "anything extra," Red vs. Blue (unless you consider acceptance as a legal resident to be something extra.) As for the impact upon America's poor, I am not sure how much or how little of an effect legalizing huge waves of illegal immigrants would have upon them. Evidentally, business interests believe that the loss of the illegal work force would hit their profit margins severely, however.]
That's an odd way of looking at it. People who immigrate here legally (i.e. wait in (a long) line, wade through a small ocean of bureaucracy in order to register in the system as a permanent resident & eventually as a citizen) wait years just for the chance to get here & work hard for a living and a chance at a better life.
People who immigrate here illegally bypass the years of waiting and the bureaucracy, and they start directly on the process of working hard for a living to improve their lives. Somehow, this "working hard" part strikes them as some justification for acknowledgement by the system (i.e. with the rights of legal citizenship.) As if toiling hard for a living confers some rights. All immigrants wind up working hard. Those who obey the legal requirements of immigration reap the benefits of obeying the immigration laws, however.
It seems to me that illegal immigrants already received their "payment" up front: when they blithely marched past everybody else who was waiting for entry. Now, they simply dislike the consequences of having snuck in. Marching in a protest? Hardly an equitable "cost" compared to going through the legal process.
[edit: I don't believe that illegal immigrants trying to protest their way into legality are asking for "anything extra," Red vs. Blue (unless you consider acceptance as a legal resident to be something extra.) As for the impact upon America's poor, I am not sure how much or how little of an effect legalizing huge waves of illegal immigrants would have upon them. Evidentally, business interests believe that the loss of the illegal work force would hit their profit margins severely, however.]
[quote name='RBM']That's an odd way of looking at it. People who immigrate here legally (i.e. wait in (a long) line, wade through a small ocean of bureaucracy in order to register in the system as a permanent resident & eventually as a citizen) wait years just for the chance to get here & work hard for a living and a chance at a better life.
People who immigrate here illegally bypass the years of waiting and the bureaucracy, and they start directly on the process of working hard for a living to improve their lives. Somehow, this "working hard" part strikes them as some justification for acknowledgement by the system (i.e. with the rights of legal citizenship.) As if toiling hard for a living confers some rights. All immigrants wind up working hard. Those who obey the legal requirements of immigration reap the benefits of obeying the immigration laws, however.
It seems to me that illegal immigrants already received their "payment" up front: when they blithely marched past everybody else who was waiting for entry. Now, they simply dislike the consequences of having snuck in. Marching in a protest? Hardly an equitable "cost" compared to going through the legal process.[/QUOTE]
What about the millions of American citizens living in poverty that are "working hard"? They don't get anything extra. Not to mention that giving amnesty to illegals is going to hurt them the most. Unfortunately we don't hear about that side of the story much but the lowest classes are the ones that will suffer the most from this.
People who immigrate here illegally bypass the years of waiting and the bureaucracy, and they start directly on the process of working hard for a living to improve their lives. Somehow, this "working hard" part strikes them as some justification for acknowledgement by the system (i.e. with the rights of legal citizenship.) As if toiling hard for a living confers some rights. All immigrants wind up working hard. Those who obey the legal requirements of immigration reap the benefits of obeying the immigration laws, however.
It seems to me that illegal immigrants already received their "payment" up front: when they blithely marched past everybody else who was waiting for entry. Now, they simply dislike the consequences of having snuck in. Marching in a protest? Hardly an equitable "cost" compared to going through the legal process.[/QUOTE]
What about the millions of American citizens living in poverty that are "working hard"? They don't get anything extra. Not to mention that giving amnesty to illegals is going to hurt them the most. Unfortunately we don't hear about that side of the story much but the lowest classes are the ones that will suffer the most from this.
CappyCobra
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To the illegals planning to march:
IT'S A TRAP!!!
You're walking right into the INS's hands. They'll be waiting for you at the end of the march with a fleet of buses ready to deport you. Don't say I didn't warn you.
IT'S A TRAP!!!
You're walking right into the INS's hands. They'll be waiting for you at the end of the march with a fleet of buses ready to deport you. Don't say I didn't warn you.
[quote name='CappyCobra']To the illegals planning to march:
IT'S A TRAP!!!
You're walking right into the INS's hands. They'll be waiting for you at the end of the march with a fleet of buses ready to deport you. Don't say I didn't warn you.
[/QUOTE]
My friend and I were joking about that last night. I said "just watch, this is like something theing emperor would do. They're all gonna march and then bam, at the end there's gonna be a ton of busses to round 'em all up for a nice little bus ride"
IT'S A TRAP!!!
You're walking right into the INS's hands. They'll be waiting for you at the end of the march with a fleet of buses ready to deport you. Don't say I didn't warn you.
[/QUOTE]
My friend and I were joking about that last night. I said "just watch, this is like something the
ing emperor would do. They're all gonna march and then bam, at the end there's gonna be a ton of busses to round 'em all up for a nice little bus ride"
CappyCobra
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']My friend and I were joking about that last night. I said "just watch, this is like something the ing emperor would do. They're all gonna march and then bam, at the end there's gonna be a ton of busses to round 'em all up for a nice little bus ride"[/quote]
Poor bastards. They won't even get to enjoy Cinco de Mayo! Now that's cruel:lol:
ing emperor would do. They're all gonna march and then bam, at the end there's gonna be a ton of busses to round 'em all up for a nice little bus ride"[/quote]Poor bastards. They won't even get to enjoy Cinco de Mayo! Now that's cruel:lol:
HumanSnatcher
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']What about the millions of American citizens living in poverty that are "working hard"? They don't get anything extra. Not to mention that giving amnesty to illegals is going to hurt them the most. Unfortunately we don't hear about that side of the story much but the lowest classes are the ones that will suffer the most from this.[/quote]
I have to totally agree with you. And as much as I hate to admit it, I'm of the types that fall into the catagory of be broke as all hell all the time. I mean it sucks when you see a deal on here for something for 5 bucks and you can't even afford it (granted most of the stuff I have now is from jewing shit out of my mother, but thats a totally different story as to why I do that). One thing that infuriates me the most is those damn "Save The Children" ads. We have enough shit here in our own country that needs attention.
I have to totally agree with you. And as much as I hate to admit it, I'm of the types that fall into the catagory of be broke as all hell all the time. I mean it sucks when you see a deal on here for something for 5 bucks and you can't even afford it (granted most of the stuff I have now is from jewing shit out of my mother, but thats a totally different story as to why I do that). One thing that infuriates me the most is those damn "Save The Children" ads. We have enough shit here in our own country that needs attention.
crazytalkx
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[quote name='Vampire Hunter D']Hey this is the political board, the few posts i happen to make here just happen to be agaisnt illegals and muslims which are political issues. Its pretty hard for me to make a snappy comeback whenever im challenged so i just post and then get out.[/QUOTE]
"ing beaners' doesn't necessarily apply to just "illegals and muslims", you're being racist against Mexicans in general.
"
ing beaners' doesn't necessarily apply to just "illegals and muslims", you're being racist against Mexicans in general.zionoverfire
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']My friend and I were joking about that last night. I said "just watch, this is like something the ing emperor would do. They're all gonna march and then bam, at the end there's gonna be a ton of busses to round 'em all up for a nice little bus ride"[/quote]
I think a simple forced march down to Mexico would be sufficient.
ing emperor would do. They're all gonna march and then bam, at the end there's gonna be a ton of busses to round 'em all up for a nice little bus ride"[/quote]I think a simple forced march down to Mexico would be sufficient.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Vampire Hunter D']Hey this is the political board, the few posts i happen to make here just happen to be agaisnt illegals and muslims which are political issues. Its pretty hard for me to make a snappy comeback whenever im challenged so i just post and then get out.[/quote]
Well you've stated your hatred of mormons, muslims and mexicans/illegals. It's not that your not coming up with a snappy comeback or an intelligent political response, it's that your response is "if you are (muslim, mormon, mexican/illegal) then I hate you". It's the very fact that when you make that statement you are being truthful. Most people here don't elaborate on those bigoted views, because they can't elaborate on an opinion they don't hold.
Stating you hate a person simply because of a religious or ethnic group they're a member of isn't a political argument.
Well you've stated your hatred of mormons, muslims and mexicans/illegals. It's not that your not coming up with a snappy comeback or an intelligent political response, it's that your response is "if you are (muslim, mormon, mexican/illegal) then I hate you". It's the very fact that when you make that statement you are being truthful. Most people here don't elaborate on those bigoted views, because they can't elaborate on an opinion they don't hold.
Stating you hate a person simply because of a religious or ethnic group they're a member of isn't a political argument.
Vampire Hunter D
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I guess i should refrase then. I was caught up in the moment. If you are extremely religious no matter what religion than yes i hate you. The way some treat women, the way that if you dont agree with everything they say than your going to hell, etc. Just look at all those cults in this country or that dude in i dont know where who they wanted to kill for converting, Im not saying that all religons are like that but it just seems like it somewhat. I cant think of anything else at the moment.
2poor
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[quote name='YoshiFan1']I hate those types of protests where people block roads and all that nonsense. I also hope that anyone who misses work unexcused is gets a penalty at work and any kid who cuts school gets detention (maybe that's harsh but this kind of stuff gets me very angry!)
""We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," "
Let them earn it like everyone else had to do[/QUOTE]
Detention isn't harsh at all. You get saturday school if you ditch a day at my school.
""We want full amnesty, full legalization for anybody who is here (illegally)," "
Let them earn it like everyone else had to do[/QUOTE]
Detention isn't harsh at all. You get saturday school if you ditch a day at my school.
crazytalkx
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[quote name='2poor']Detention isn't harsh at all. You get saturday school if you ditch a day at my school.[/QUOTE]
What my school has threatened to do is prevent seniors from walking at graduation, THATS a threat.
What my school has threatened to do is prevent seniors from walking at graduation, THATS a threat.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='crazytalkx']What my school has threatened to do is prevent seniors from walking at graduation, THATS a threat.[/quote]
Impossible to carry out though. There's no way to know why any individual is absent, as there are plenty of people absent on any given day. You can't expect sick students to have doctors notes just for missing 1 day of school.
I know when I was in high school all I had to do was ask my mom to write a note. I remember once in senior year asking for a note because I decided to skip school and watch tv instead. She didn't care and just wrote it. Though when I was late for school I used to just make my own note and sign her name, she didn't have a problem with that either. A lot of other parents I knew didn't care either, as long as there kids were doing well in school.
Impossible to carry out though. There's no way to know why any individual is absent, as there are plenty of people absent on any given day. You can't expect sick students to have doctors notes just for missing 1 day of school.
I know when I was in high school all I had to do was ask my mom to write a note. I remember once in senior year asking for a note because I decided to skip school and watch tv instead. She didn't care and just wrote it. Though when I was late for school I used to just make my own note and sign her name, she didn't have a problem with that either. A lot of other parents I knew didn't care either, as long as there kids were doing well in school.
after those raids they did for ..show. I woudlnt be suprised if there were tons rounded up in this after the last one scared half of america .
Would I be arrested if I tryed to arrest these people walking down the street? and they started throwing things at me..and i protected myself by shooting at them?
Its not like I can walk down the street yelling I just broke the law then say my demands are all charges droped simply cause im protesting.
Would I be arrested if I tryed to arrest these people walking down the street? and they started throwing things at me..and i protected myself by shooting at them?
Its not like I can walk down the street yelling I just broke the law then say my demands are all charges droped simply cause im protesting.
2poor
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I just saw some protestors in Santa Ana. It's a bit premature, but I doubt they can gather enough people to close a city or even a city block.
[quote name='crazytalkx']What my school has threatened to do is prevent seniors from walking at graduation, THATS a threat.[/QUOTE]
THAT'S harsh. I guess I'm "lucky" I only get saturday school.
[quote name='crazytalkx']What my school has threatened to do is prevent seniors from walking at graduation, THATS a threat.[/QUOTE]
THAT'S harsh. I guess I'm "lucky" I only get saturday school.
crazytalkx
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[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Not everyone protesting is an illegal.[/QUOTE]
Or hispanic, just somewhat of a majority. The thing that really annoyed me wasn't the walk outs that happened about a month ago but the lack of knowledge on part of said protestors who just wanted an excuse to get out of school/work.
Or hispanic, just somewhat of a majority. The thing that really annoyed me wasn't the walk outs that happened about a month ago but the lack of knowledge on part of said protestors who just wanted an excuse to get out of school/work.
[quote name='niceguyshawne']May I ask what you had to do to "earn it?"[/QUOTE]
They can earn it like my grandparents did. Learn English, have a way to provide for yourself, and do it the right way.
I don't hold it against anyone that wants to come here, legally or not. I'd want to emigrate to America, any way I could, if I were in their position. But the economic effects of simply letting everyone in who wants to come would be devastating.
I don't condone going hard after the immigrants themselves. Law enforcement's focus should be on the companies that hire these people as a cheap alternative to hiring legal workers. Companies like Walmart, Tyson Foods, and IFCO Systems. Hiring illegal aliens for very little money and no benefits is rampant in the construction and agriculture industries, and its not just Mexicans. Many of these companies hire illegal European immigrants, since no one would ever suspect an English speaking white guy of being an illegal. What happens if they get hurt on the job? Theres no health insurance, no workmans comp. Either they're screwed, or we're screwed when we foot the bill for the company that should by all rights be held responsible.
The argument that "illegals take the jobs that Americans don't want" is an absolute fallacy. Most of the hypocrites that make this argument are in favor of a "free market". Well, here's a little lesson on how a free market operates. If you're offering a hard job that very few people can or will do, for very little money and no benefits, you're not going to find many people that want to do it. What a shocker! You can't find people willing to take your jobs? Pay more money! That is how the market works. If you're looking to hire a doctor or a lawyer for $5/hr, you will not find one. Does that mean that since no Americans want to take your shitty offer, that you should be allowed to import cheaper workers? Hell no, it means you're just not offering enough money. This is the same argument they used to bring in so many H-1B's for technical jobs. There is no shortage of workers, this is all about saving the company money.
That said, we should change how we determine who can emigrate legally. If you can speak English, have a skill you can use to support yourself and your family, and you genuinely want to become an American, and not just a foreigner working in America, then come on in. The rest of you can come back when you meet those two requirements. If so many people qualify, that we would get flooded with immigrants and have an economic problem, then raise the requirements. Require a better skill or degree that they can use to at least make the average American income. Require better mastery of English.
Its simple, its fair, its entirely non racist.
By the way, the Mexican government actively encourages illegal emigration to the US. Why? Guess the product that makes Mexico the most money. Oil is #2. Give up? Its remittances. A remittance is sending money from here to someone in Mexico, Mexico gets more money from that than anything else. Not oil, not tourism. The ~20 million Mexicans in the US make more money than the ~100 million Mexicans in Mexico.
They can earn it like my grandparents did. Learn English, have a way to provide for yourself, and do it the right way.
I don't hold it against anyone that wants to come here, legally or not. I'd want to emigrate to America, any way I could, if I were in their position. But the economic effects of simply letting everyone in who wants to come would be devastating.
I don't condone going hard after the immigrants themselves. Law enforcement's focus should be on the companies that hire these people as a cheap alternative to hiring legal workers. Companies like Walmart, Tyson Foods, and IFCO Systems. Hiring illegal aliens for very little money and no benefits is rampant in the construction and agriculture industries, and its not just Mexicans. Many of these companies hire illegal European immigrants, since no one would ever suspect an English speaking white guy of being an illegal. What happens if they get hurt on the job? Theres no health insurance, no workmans comp. Either they're screwed, or we're screwed when we foot the bill for the company that should by all rights be held responsible.
The argument that "illegals take the jobs that Americans don't want" is an absolute fallacy. Most of the hypocrites that make this argument are in favor of a "free market". Well, here's a little lesson on how a free market operates. If you're offering a hard job that very few people can or will do, for very little money and no benefits, you're not going to find many people that want to do it. What a shocker! You can't find people willing to take your jobs? Pay more money! That is how the market works. If you're looking to hire a doctor or a lawyer for $5/hr, you will not find one. Does that mean that since no Americans want to take your shitty offer, that you should be allowed to import cheaper workers? Hell no, it means you're just not offering enough money. This is the same argument they used to bring in so many H-1B's for technical jobs. There is no shortage of workers, this is all about saving the company money.
That said, we should change how we determine who can emigrate legally. If you can speak English, have a skill you can use to support yourself and your family, and you genuinely want to become an American, and not just a foreigner working in America, then come on in. The rest of you can come back when you meet those two requirements. If so many people qualify, that we would get flooded with immigrants and have an economic problem, then raise the requirements. Require a better skill or degree that they can use to at least make the average American income. Require better mastery of English.
Its simple, its fair, its entirely non racist.
By the way, the Mexican government actively encourages illegal emigration to the US. Why? Guess the product that makes Mexico the most money. Oil is #2. Give up? Its remittances. A remittance is sending money from here to someone in Mexico, Mexico gets more money from that than anything else. Not oil, not tourism. The ~20 million Mexicans in the US make more money than the ~100 million Mexicans in Mexico.
crazytalkx
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[quote name='dafoomie'] If you can speak English, have a skill you can use to support yourself and your family, and you genuinely want to become an American, and not just a foreigner working in America, then come on in. [/QUOTE]
Don't necessarily have to speak English to "earn" your place in the US. Hard, honest work isn't good enough?
Don't necessarily have to speak English to "earn" your place in the US. Hard, honest work isn't good enough?
[quote name='crazytalkx']Don't necessarily have to speak English to "earn" your place in the US. Hard, honest work isn't good enough?[/QUOTE]
You have to be able to function within our society. Part of that entails speaking English. I wouldn't require it of every member of the family, or the children since they can learn it here, but there needs to be someone in the family that has the means to provide for their family and function within our society. That requires speaking English. Its a matter of practicality. If you want to permanantly move to Russia, speak Russian. If its China, speak Chinese. I wouldn't expect them to necessarily be fluent, good enough to get by would be fine. Its just common sense that you'd at least make some attempt at learning the language of the country you seek to move to.
To paraphrase JFK, ask not what America can do for you, ask what you can do for America. Having more able and productive members of society is a benefit to the country. Having more unskilled, uneducated people that lack the ability to communicate with most of the country, does not benefit the country.
Before anyone says that this is a racist policy against Mexicans, its much easier for a Spanish speaker to learn English than it would be for someone who speaks a completely unrelated language, like Chinese, Korean, or Swahili.
You have to be able to function within our society. Part of that entails speaking English. I wouldn't require it of every member of the family, or the children since they can learn it here, but there needs to be someone in the family that has the means to provide for their family and function within our society. That requires speaking English. Its a matter of practicality. If you want to permanantly move to Russia, speak Russian. If its China, speak Chinese. I wouldn't expect them to necessarily be fluent, good enough to get by would be fine. Its just common sense that you'd at least make some attempt at learning the language of the country you seek to move to.
To paraphrase JFK, ask not what America can do for you, ask what you can do for America. Having more able and productive members of society is a benefit to the country. Having more unskilled, uneducated people that lack the ability to communicate with most of the country, does not benefit the country.
Before anyone says that this is a racist policy against Mexicans, its much easier for a Spanish speaker to learn English than it would be for someone who speaks a completely unrelated language, like Chinese, Korean, or Swahili.
coltyhuxx
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Calling today "A Day Without Immigrants" is a misnomer. It should be called "A Day Without ILLEGAL Immigrants," to keep in the spirit of what they are trying to accomplish... But for some reason, I'm wagering that this is considered offensive. I can't move to Europe and just start working... or get on the dole (well, perhaps medical services)... If I did sneak in, they, or any country would be fully within their right to call me an "illegal"... that's just common sense.
It's just plain wrong to lump all immigrants into the same category. It confuses the term; likely the intent is some pull at heart strings. I don't know. But I think the brazen dishonesty of this has put me off on this event.
Boy I will tell you though, you've never seen so many angry upper class white kids protesting up on campus today! A lot of Che Guevarra shirts and Calvin Kline jeans. The irony, .
It's just plain wrong to lump all immigrants into the same category. It confuses the term; likely the intent is some pull at heart strings. I don't know. But I think the brazen dishonesty of this has put me off on this event.
Boy I will tell you though, you've never seen so many angry upper class white kids protesting up on campus today! A lot of Che Guevarra shirts and Calvin Kline jeans. The irony, .
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='coltyhuxx']Calling today "A Day Without Immigrants" is a misnomer. It should be called "A Day Without ILLEGAL Immigrants," to keep in the spirit of what they are trying to accomplish... But for some reason, I'm wagering that this is considered offensive. I can't move to Europe and just start working... or get on the dole (well, perhaps medical services)... If I did sneak in, they, or any country would be fully within their right to call me an "illegal"... that's just common sense.
It's just plain wrong to lump all immigrants into the same category. It confuses the term; likely the intent is some pull at heart strings. I don't know. But I think the brazen dishonesty of this has put me off on this event.
Boy I will tell you though, you've never seen so many angry upper class white kids protesting up on campus today! A lot of Che Guevarra shirts and Calvin Kline jeans. The irony, .[/quote]
actually, it seems a large amount of the protestors are legal.
It's just plain wrong to lump all immigrants into the same category. It confuses the term; likely the intent is some pull at heart strings. I don't know. But I think the brazen dishonesty of this has put me off on this event.
Boy I will tell you though, you've never seen so many angry upper class white kids protesting up on campus today! A lot of Che Guevarra shirts and Calvin Kline jeans. The irony, .[/quote]
actually, it seems a large amount of the protestors are legal.
Kayden
Banned
[quote name='coltyhuxx']
It's just plain wrong to lump all immigrants into the same category. It confuses the term; likely the intent is some pull at heart strings. I don't know. But I think the brazen dishonesty of this has put me off on this event.[/quote]
But thats how they get so much support. The put a spin on it giving the impression that by making policies against illegal immigrants you'r slapping all immigrants in the face, legal or not. So they have to 'stand up to the man'. Then they spin it as most illegals are Mexican, so the policies are "clearly" racist. That gets all the latinos into a frenzy. The you get all the suburban white kids that want to be street and side with their 'oppressed brethern'. Its just a big snowball of shit.
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Impossible to carry out though. There's no way to know why any individual is absent, as there are plenty of people absent on any given day. You can't expect sick students to have doctors notes just for missing 1 day of school. [/quote]
Being a Mexican kinda narrows it down though. If their parents want to lie, you really can't stop that. However, a Mexican kid without a note is going to be highly suspect.
[quote name='dafoomie']Well, here's a little lesson on how a free market operates. If you're offering a hard job that very few people can or will do, for very little money and no benefits, you're not going to find many people that want to do it. What a shocker! You can't find people willing to take your jobs? Pay more money! That is how the market works. [/quote]
When I was in elementary school I used to talk to the janitor a lot while in the beforeschool daycare thing. He was one of the highest paid people in the school. Putting up with little shits is rough, but putting up with little shit's shits is even worse.
[quote name='dafoomie']You have to be able to function within our society. Part of that entails speaking English. I wouldn't require it of every member of the family, or the children since they can learn it here, but there needs to be someone in the family that has the means to provide for their family and function within our society.[/quote]
It really needs to be all or none. Say you've got a family of 7 that wants to immigrate. Only the oldest son speaks English. Say he gets a low paying dangerous factory job and winds up dying. Now this family has no means of interaction or a way to support themselves. It gets worse if you zoom out a bit. Say you get 60 families of 5. Thats 300 people, only 60 of which are able to interact in American society. The other 240 lump together and form a miniMexico. Thats not neccisarily bad, but its totally against the entire purpose of immigrating-- that being integrating into a new society. It's not wrong for them to want to remember who they are as a people, but if you let it grow enough you get situations like the one in France. The 'natives' begin presuring a large foreign cell to integrate. The immigrants start lashishing out because they're 'being repressed'. Honestly, how are you a fourth generation immigrant and not know the native language? Its just asinine!
Effects locally seem to be negligible. From what I've heard on the radio, the biggest consequence may be that I can't get Chipotle for lunch.
I've heard they may have to simply resort to standing in traffic to get any amount of coverage. "Yea, there were so many of us we clogged the streets." Whoopie doo, a fat woman sitting on an overpass can do that, and shes not even in the path of the cars.
It's just plain wrong to lump all immigrants into the same category. It confuses the term; likely the intent is some pull at heart strings. I don't know. But I think the brazen dishonesty of this has put me off on this event.[/quote]
But thats how they get so much support. The put a spin on it giving the impression that by making policies against illegal immigrants you'r slapping all immigrants in the face, legal or not. So they have to 'stand up to the man'. Then they spin it as most illegals are Mexican, so the policies are "clearly" racist. That gets all the latinos into a frenzy. The you get all the suburban white kids that want to be street and side with their 'oppressed brethern'. Its just a big snowball of shit.
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Impossible to carry out though. There's no way to know why any individual is absent, as there are plenty of people absent on any given day. You can't expect sick students to have doctors notes just for missing 1 day of school. [/quote]
Being a Mexican kinda narrows it down though. If their parents want to lie, you really can't stop that. However, a Mexican kid without a note is going to be highly suspect.
[quote name='dafoomie']Well, here's a little lesson on how a free market operates. If you're offering a hard job that very few people can or will do, for very little money and no benefits, you're not going to find many people that want to do it. What a shocker! You can't find people willing to take your jobs? Pay more money! That is how the market works. [/quote]
When I was in elementary school I used to talk to the janitor a lot while in the beforeschool daycare thing. He was one of the highest paid people in the school. Putting up with little shits is rough, but putting up with little shit's shits is even worse.
[quote name='dafoomie']You have to be able to function within our society. Part of that entails speaking English. I wouldn't require it of every member of the family, or the children since they can learn it here, but there needs to be someone in the family that has the means to provide for their family and function within our society.[/quote]
It really needs to be all or none. Say you've got a family of 7 that wants to immigrate. Only the oldest son speaks English. Say he gets a low paying dangerous factory job and winds up dying. Now this family has no means of interaction or a way to support themselves. It gets worse if you zoom out a bit. Say you get 60 families of 5. Thats 300 people, only 60 of which are able to interact in American society. The other 240 lump together and form a miniMexico. Thats not neccisarily bad, but its totally against the entire purpose of immigrating-- that being integrating into a new society. It's not wrong for them to want to remember who they are as a people, but if you let it grow enough you get situations like the one in France. The 'natives' begin presuring a large foreign cell to integrate. The immigrants start lashishing out because they're 'being repressed'. Honestly, how are you a fourth generation immigrant and not know the native language? Its just asinine!
Effects locally seem to be negligible. From what I've heard on the radio, the biggest consequence may be that I can't get Chipotle for lunch.
I've heard they may have to simply resort to standing in traffic to get any amount of coverage. "Yea, there were so many of us we clogged the streets." Whoopie doo, a fat woman sitting on an overpass can do that, and shes not even in the path of the cars.
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Kayden']
Being a Mexican kinda narrows it down though. If their parents want to lie, you really can't stop that. However, a Mexican kid without a note is going to be highly suspect.[/quote]
So they're going to punish any kid they think is hispanic and the kid name Patel is in the clear? Or is it just the ones who look mexican (ie. not white, asian, middle eastern or black)? If they ever decided to just enforce this with the kids who either look, or have names suggesting they're X, they're opening themselves up to lawsuits, as they're deciding punishments based on race and ethnicity. There's no way to know whether a kid who looks hispanic, or has a name suggesting that (nevermind that they may genuinely be from spain), is illegal or skipped school to attend a protest. When you have a school with a large amount of hispanics a good amount are going to be absent any day. When there's an excess of absences, there's no way of knowing which ones are due to illness or emergency, and which ones are due to the protest.
For example, if 5-10% are absent every day, and 50% are absent today, there's no way of knowing which individuals wouldn't have been absent normally.
You'd have to punish every kid without a note equally. Though I can't imagine that going over well and, at least in my old high school, the teachers forced the administration to reverse excessive punishments multiple times.
Being a Mexican kinda narrows it down though. If their parents want to lie, you really can't stop that. However, a Mexican kid without a note is going to be highly suspect.[/quote]
So they're going to punish any kid they think is hispanic and the kid name Patel is in the clear? Or is it just the ones who look mexican (ie. not white, asian, middle eastern or black)? If they ever decided to just enforce this with the kids who either look, or have names suggesting they're X, they're opening themselves up to lawsuits, as they're deciding punishments based on race and ethnicity. There's no way to know whether a kid who looks hispanic, or has a name suggesting that (nevermind that they may genuinely be from spain), is illegal or skipped school to attend a protest. When you have a school with a large amount of hispanics a good amount are going to be absent any day. When there's an excess of absences, there's no way of knowing which ones are due to illness or emergency, and which ones are due to the protest.
For example, if 5-10% are absent every day, and 50% are absent today, there's no way of knowing which individuals wouldn't have been absent normally.
You'd have to punish every kid without a note equally. Though I can't imagine that going over well and, at least in my old high school, the teachers forced the administration to reverse excessive punishments multiple times.
Kayden
Banned
Will you ever stop being so... you? Do you just enjoy arguing so much that you'll knitpick every little thing even though its a moot point? Yes, we get it, you're so clever you can look at half a statement and then conceive a bunch of points that don't hold up when the whole picture is examined. Yes, you're right, kids skip school everyday, but being absent without a note is ALWAYS punishable! If you don't have a note/call from home or a doctors note, its unexcused- simple as that. They are fully in the right to punish kids that skip school as it is against the law. As I said, you can't keep parents from lying for their kids, but that would count as an excused absence in the school's eyes.
Are you saying that its not fair to impose a more strict punishment for this day in particular because you can't tell the 'supporter walkouts' from the people that were going to skip class as a habit?
Your whole point is invalid. If the school says if you' have an unexcused absence today you get a month of detention, then thems the breaks. Are you saying they should be able to say, "Well, I skip class every Monday so I should only get the normal day of detention"?
[quote name='alonzomourning23']So they're going to punish any kid they think is hispanic and the kid name Patel is in the clear? Or is it just the ones who look mexican (ie. not white, asian, middle eastern or black)? If they ever decided to just enforce this with the kids who either look, or have names suggesting they're X, they're opening themselves up to lawsuits, as they're deciding punishments based on race and ethnicity. There's no way to know whether a kid who looks hispanic, or has a name suggesting that (nevermind that they may genuinely be from spain), is illegal or skipped school to attend a protest. When you have a school with a large amount of hispanics a good amount are going to be absent any day. When there's an excess of absences, there's no way of knowing which ones are due to illness or emergency, and which ones are due to the protest.
For example, if 5-10% are absent every day, and 50% are absent today, there's no way of knowing which individuals wouldn't have been absent normally.
You'd have to punish every kid without a note equally. Though I can't imagine that going over well and, at least in my old high school, the teachers forced the administration to reverse excessive punishments multiple times.[/quote]
Are you saying that its not fair to impose a more strict punishment for this day in particular because you can't tell the 'supporter walkouts' from the people that were going to skip class as a habit?
Your whole point is invalid. If the school says if you' have an unexcused absence today you get a month of detention, then thems the breaks. Are you saying they should be able to say, "Well, I skip class every Monday so I should only get the normal day of detention"?
[quote name='alonzomourning23']So they're going to punish any kid they think is hispanic and the kid name Patel is in the clear? Or is it just the ones who look mexican (ie. not white, asian, middle eastern or black)? If they ever decided to just enforce this with the kids who either look, or have names suggesting they're X, they're opening themselves up to lawsuits, as they're deciding punishments based on race and ethnicity. There's no way to know whether a kid who looks hispanic, or has a name suggesting that (nevermind that they may genuinely be from spain), is illegal or skipped school to attend a protest. When you have a school with a large amount of hispanics a good amount are going to be absent any day. When there's an excess of absences, there's no way of knowing which ones are due to illness or emergency, and which ones are due to the protest.
For example, if 5-10% are absent every day, and 50% are absent today, there's no way of knowing which individuals wouldn't have been absent normally.
You'd have to punish every kid without a note equally. Though I can't imagine that going over well and, at least in my old high school, the teachers forced the administration to reverse excessive punishments multiple times.[/quote]
alonzomourning23
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[quote name='Kayden']Will you ever stop being so... you? Do you just enjoy arguing so much that you'll knitpick every little thing even though its a moot point? Yes, we get it, you're so clever you can look at half a statement and then conceive a bunch of points that don't hold up when the whole picture is examined. [/quote]
I like to argue and pick apart things. It's entertaining. The only other place I can do that is in actual debates with people. I can't do that in normal, everyday conversations because I'd piss people off and therefore wouldn't be something I'd enjoy doing anyway. Here though I can just say what I want since it's not like I'm going to have to deal with you (or whoever else I'm arguing) in everday life. And since this is the debate forum I have no problem initiating it, unlike in other areas where I'm more likely to stumble into it but don't really attempt to start it.
Think of how big an ass jimmiemac is, do you really think he acts like that with everyone? Or is it he just enjoys doing that and this is the best place to do it?
That's my point. That and you can't attempt to weed out the walkouts from the genuinely absent ones due superficial characteristics (name, appearance etc.)
My original comment was in response to a statement of not allowing someone to walk at graduation. If you want to be excessive then I think it's unfair, but it becomes a major issue when you start decide which unexcused absences are worse than the other.
I like to argue and pick apart things. It's entertaining. The only other place I can do that is in actual debates with people. I can't do that in normal, everyday conversations because I'd piss people off and therefore wouldn't be something I'd enjoy doing anyway. Here though I can just say what I want since it's not like I'm going to have to deal with you (or whoever else I'm arguing) in everday life. And since this is the debate forum I have no problem initiating it, unlike in other areas where I'm more likely to stumble into it but don't really attempt to start it.
Think of how big an ass jimmiemac is, do you really think he acts like that with everyone? Or is it he just enjoys doing that and this is the best place to do it?
That's my point. That and you can't attempt to weed out the walkouts from the genuinely absent ones due superficial characteristics (name, appearance etc.)
My original comment was in response to a statement of not allowing someone to walk at graduation. If you want to be excessive then I think it's unfair, but it becomes a major issue when you start decide which unexcused absences are worse than the other.
Duo_Maxwell
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To be honest IMO keeping the kids away from school is the most retarded thing I've ever heard and we should punish the parents. Alot of children of immigrant families already have a hard time in school because they typically don't speak the native language, so intentionally keeping them out of school and letting them intentionally fall behind is rediculously stupid.
If you want to have a protest and play hookey from work (though I don't think you have a right to complain if you get punished there too, unless you took a personal day), then fine that's your perogative as an adult. But keeping kids out of school does them no good, especially for people that come here for a better life for their families, the kids need an education to achieve that better life.
If you want to have a protest and play hookey from work (though I don't think you have a right to complain if you get punished there too, unless you took a personal day), then fine that's your perogative as an adult. But keeping kids out of school does them no good, especially for people that come here for a better life for their families, the kids need an education to achieve that better life.
Everyone call in to work Tomorrow and say
ITS DAY WITHOUT ME Day
if they fire you say you sue them
It be a cold day in hell before they get accepted.... all they want is free health care and free housing.... #$#$##$ them... Send them all back to mexico those mother #$#$#$#
ITS DAY WITHOUT ME Day
if they fire you say you sue them
It be a cold day in hell before they get accepted.... all they want is free health care and free housing.... #$#$##$ them... Send them all back to mexico those mother #$#$#$#
coltyhuxx
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[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']To be honest IMO keeping the kids away from school is the most retarded thing I've ever heard and we should punish the parents. Alot of children of immigrant families already have a hard time in school because they typically don't speak the native language, so intentionally keeping them out of school and letting them intentionally fall behind is rediculously stupid.
If you want to have a protest and play hookey from work (though I don't think you have a right to complain if you get punished there too, unless you took a personal day), then fine that's your perogative as an adult. But keeping kids out of school does them no good, especially for people that come here for a better life for their families, the kids need an education to achieve that better life.[/quote]
Well to play devils advocate here, is missing school for one dayAT ALL that big of a deal? Wahhh like Tommy's (or Sancho in this instance) isn't going to be a doctor cos they missed ONE WHOLE DAY of life altering public education. I don't think that's really a good argument against protests in general. Especially since if you agree with the protest you should be looking at the big picture not just missing a day of work/school/wanking it whatever you do.
If you want to have a protest and play hookey from work (though I don't think you have a right to complain if you get punished there too, unless you took a personal day), then fine that's your perogative as an adult. But keeping kids out of school does them no good, especially for people that come here for a better life for their families, the kids need an education to achieve that better life.[/quote]
Well to play devils advocate here, is missing school for one day
AT ALL that big of a deal? Wahhh like Tommy's (or Sancho in this instance) isn't going to be a doctor cos they missed ONE WHOLE DAY of life altering public education. I don't think that's really a good argument against protests in general. Especially since if you agree with the protest you should be looking at the big picture not just missing a day of work/school/wanking it whatever you do.
Kayden
Banned
[quote name='alonzomourning23']
That's my point. That and you can't attempt to weed out the walkouts from the genuinely absent ones due superficial characteristics (name, appearance etc.)
[/quote]
What constitutes 'genuinely' absent? Should they be in trouble if they're sick? No. Should they be in trouble if they're skipping school? Yes.
I don't know how many different ways you need the same thing said. An unexcused absence... isn't excusable! If they know the policy is they can't graduate if they're unexcused that day then they damn well better not skip, whether it'd be from support or habitual skipping. If you're ACTUALLY sick that day, you'd most likely have a parent call the school and say you're sick-thusly, making it an EXCUSED absence.
I didn't say all mexicans not in school should be expelled/punished/etc. What I said was if someone is Mexican/hispanic and has an UNEXCUSED absence, its fairly obvious why they were gone.
That's my point. That and you can't attempt to weed out the walkouts from the genuinely absent ones due superficial characteristics (name, appearance etc.)
[/quote]
What constitutes 'genuinely' absent? Should they be in trouble if they're sick? No. Should they be in trouble if they're skipping school? Yes.
I don't know how many different ways you need the same thing said. An unexcused absence... isn't excusable! If they know the policy is they can't graduate if they're unexcused that day then they damn well better not skip, whether it'd be from support or habitual skipping. If you're ACTUALLY sick that day, you'd most likely have a parent call the school and say you're sick-thusly, making it an EXCUSED absence.
I didn't say all mexicans not in school should be expelled/punished/etc. What I said was if someone is Mexican/hispanic and has an UNEXCUSED absence, its fairly obvious why they were gone.
[quote name='CappyCobra']To the illegals planning to march:
IT'S A TRAP!!!
You're walking right into the INS's hands. They'll be waiting for you at the end of the march with a fleet of buses ready to deport you. Don't say I didn't warn you.
[/QUOTE]
\
that would been funny as hell.... here have this little march and WHAMM Get them all
ON JUNE 1 lets all do A DAY WITHOUT LEGAL AMERICANS ..... we will see then how big of an impact the so called ILLEGAL people have on the workforce....
IT'S A TRAP!!!
You're walking right into the INS's hands. They'll be waiting for you at the end of the march with a fleet of buses ready to deport you. Don't say I didn't warn you.
[/QUOTE]
\
that would been funny as hell.... here have this little march and WHAMM Get them all
ON JUNE 1 lets all do A DAY WITHOUT LEGAL AMERICANS ..... we will see then how big of an impact the so called ILLEGAL people have on the workforce....
HumanSnatcher
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[quote name='slidecage']ON JUNE 1 lets all do A DAY WITHOUT LEGAL AMERICANS ..... we will see then how big of an impact the so called ILLEGAL people have on the workforce....[/quote]
Thats the besting idea I've heard all day!
Thats the best
ing idea I've heard all day!Duo_Maxwell
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[quote name='coltyhuxx']Well to play devils advocate here, is missing school for one day AT ALL that big of a deal? Wahhh like Tommy's (or Sancho in this instance) isn't going to be a doctor cos they missed ONE WHOLE DAY of life altering public education. I don't think that's really a good argument against protests in general. Especially since if you agree with the protest you should be looking at the big picture not just missing a day of work/school/wanking it whatever you do.[/QUOTE]
When they don't know as much spelling/grammar/math as well as the rest of the class due to a language barrier, then yes it is a big deal. If you don't believe me ask a teacher if a student that is already behind needs all the time in the classroom they can get, and I can promise you they will agree with me. The odd thing here is, a good number of Latino families make the education of their kids a pretty high priority so this makes even less sense IMO. I'll ask you what good it does to pull them out even if only for a day?
More to the point though, I wasn't making an argument against protesting in general, agreeing or disagreeing with this protest or whatever point you where thinking I was making apparently. I'd also be willing to bet alot of the kids not in school right now are not at any protest so much as they are probably doing whatever they feel like doing. I know alot of kids aren't in school in my area now, but as far as I know the only schedule and large protest isn't happening til about 6 pm tonite. At any rate, I was simply making a point that is was stupid for parents to allow their kids to miss school because I don't think having an 9 year old even at a protest will the the help cause or the kid as much as even just a day of education will.
AT ALL that big of a deal? Wahhh like Tommy's (or Sancho in this instance) isn't going to be a doctor cos they missed ONE WHOLE DAY of life altering public education. I don't think that's really a good argument against protests in general. Especially since if you agree with the protest you should be looking at the big picture not just missing a day of work/school/wanking it whatever you do.[/QUOTE]When they don't know as much spelling/grammar/math as well as the rest of the class due to a language barrier, then yes it is a big deal. If you don't believe me ask a teacher if a student that is already behind needs all the time in the classroom they can get, and I can promise you they will agree with me. The odd thing here is, a good number of Latino families make the education of their kids a pretty high priority so this makes even less sense IMO. I'll ask you what good it does to pull them out even if only for a day?
More to the point though, I wasn't making an argument against protesting in general, agreeing or disagreeing with this protest or whatever point you where thinking I was making apparently. I'd also be willing to bet alot of the kids not in school right now are not at any protest so much as they are probably doing whatever they feel like doing. I know alot of kids aren't in school in my area now, but as far as I know the only schedule and large protest isn't happening til about 6 pm tonite. At any rate, I was simply making a point that is was stupid for parents to allow their kids to miss school because I don't think having an 9 year old even at a protest will the the help cause or the kid as much as even just a day of education will.
bread's done