New firmware may make older consoles non compatible with newer games

M

Mizley

CAGiversary!
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-new-xbox-dash-doesnt-work-on-all-drives


Have no fear though as microsoft will offer free replacements.


According to news from Kotaku, the new Xbox 360 firmware upgrade arriving imminently is incompatible with "a very small number" of consoles, and will prevent certain games from running on the console. The good news is that the platform holder will replace these machines with a brand new Xbox 360 S with 250GB hard drive.
It's a remarkable story, with Kotaku inferring that the new XGD3 disc standard - which adds 1GB of useable data to 360 DVDs - may not be compatible with a certain percentage of Xbox 360 DVD drives. However, the truth behind this incompatibility appears to be somewhat more involved. Since the arrival of the beta version of the new dashboard, hackers have been reverse-engineering it and finding a number of surprising additions never seen before in previous upgrades.
Firstly, this new release is the first that will actually see the drive firmware being rewritten by the Xbox 360 itself. Any one using a current hacked DVD drive will find that updating to the new dash instantly kills their ability to run pirate software, with the hacked code completely expunged from the DVD drive. Microsoft has employed a wide range of DVD drives in its machines from launch - the best guess is that not all of them can be flashed directly, necessitating a swapped console.
This new firmware doesn't just open up the additional 1GB of space previously set aside for the outdated, compromised security scheme - it features a completely brand new anti-piracy mechanism. In the past, previous attempts to foil piracy (such as AP 2.5) only worked on certain drives, with the feature disabled if you had older hardware. With the new system, it seems that the anti-piracy measures are so deeply embedded that they cannot simply be skipped in the same way.
We've also heard a number of reports that the new security protocols go beyond simply updating the dash. Multiple developer sources have told us that Microsoft has upped its game here significantly, and is now calling on studios to help get involved in combating Xbox 360 game piracy. According to this information, new APIs are being worked on that programmers can add to their titles which perform additional scans of the DVD during gameplay, not just when the game is booted as is currently the case.
Burned copies of Xbox 360 games are not 100 per cent identical to the originals, so hacked DVD drive firmware masks the differences with on-the-fly patching. Microsoft's hope is that in-game checks will be far harder to isolate and patch, and with control of these features in the developer's hands, pirate copies of games could even be "downgraded" into playable demos - for example, they could become non-functional after a couple of levels' play.
XDG3 is clearly a big deal for Microsoft - as evidenced by the company effectively giving away free Xboxes to ensure compatibility for all its userbase - but whether its new anti-piracy measures will be enough remains to be seen. The firm's last effort - AP2.5 - was dispensed with in a matter of days, and already drive firmware hacker "commodore4eva" is claiming that he has defeated the new countermeasures introduced in the beta dash...



 
They have to keep fighting piracy but someone will always figure out a way around it. Hopefully it will get to the point (if we aren't there already) where it becomes too much of a pain to keep up with it for the average person.
 
Not to try and get one over on microsoft but my 360 literally just got the disk read error they are known for. I purchased a replacement which would be my 4th 360. I wonder if I can return the replacement I just bought and just have this one replaced for free by them. With 4 systems in just under 5 yrs I think a free replacement is well deserved at this point.
 
Mizley, your warranty is extended to three years for RROD and E74 errors.

On a completely different note, and this has NOTHING to do with anything else in this thread, my favorite South Park character is Towelly.
 
I admit I quickly skimmed the post, what is the cut off date for "older" systems? Where does the line get drawn. I have 2 xboxes one is just a spare that I bought years ago.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']I actually have a 20 gig Launch 360 that my family uses, I wonder if this would be one of the ones affected?[/QUOTE]

This is what I'm hoping. I still have my 20GB launch model that's going strong. I'd love to get an updated Xbox for free.
 
Sweet, I'll be checking my console when I get home. Here's to hoping my old beat up 20GB is one of the affected ones.

Also, I have another old console given to me by a friend that has a stuck DVD drive. All you have to do is update the dashboard and see if the console qualifies right? I believe the drive is still working, it just seems like the mechanism that opens it is faulty. Two chances are better than one, I hope.
 
[quote name='blindinglights']Sweet, I'll be checking my console when I get home. Here's to hoping my old beat up 20GB is one of the affected ones.

Also, I have another old console given to me by a friend that has a stuck DVD drive. All you have to do is update the dashboard and see if the console qualifies right? I believe the drive is still working, it just seems like the mechanism that opens it is faulty. Two chances are better than one, I hope.[/QUOTE]

The update isn't out yet BTW. The Spring update will roll out between the 19th and 30th.
 
It's mentioned on Joystiq (but not on Kotaku) that MS can detect which Xboxes are affected through Xbox Live once the patch is applied. I'm guessing it's to basically avoid 10 million calls from people claiming that the update messed up their system and demanding a new Xbox.
 
Hmm... if it can be figured out which models warrant replacement with a 250 GB S, then perhaps you could buy one on ebay and then get it replaced. :)
 
I'm not really in the market for a new 360 since I still have a 60GB (since upgraded the HD to 250) I got christmas of 2008, but if I get a new one out of this, I wouldn't complain. :razz:
 
[quote name='DOMINATOR912']It's mentioned on Joystiq (but not on Kotaku) that MS can detect which Xboxes are affected through Xbox Live once the patch is applied. I'm guessing it's to basically avoid 10 million calls from people claiming that the update messed up their system and demanding a new Xbox.[/QUOTE]It's supposedly some combination of drive model and drive firmware that has this issue, though what they are is obviously unknown. I'm sure whatever mechanism MS uses to figure out the issue polls the drive and if it's in the list, then they bring up the replacement scenario.
 
I have an old Arcade from like 2008, curious to see if mine's effected, I hope they don't require the serial on it cuz I don't have mine on there anymore lol.
 
Major Nelson clears up the confusion going around the net here: http://majornelson.com/2011/05/18/clearing-up-some-confusion/

"Clarification time! The console replacement plan that is the subject of some of today’s headlines is related to a previous update, NOT the system update that has been in public beta and will be deployed shortly.

The new disc format that is part of the beta has been rigorously tested across all Xbox 360 models and there are no known compatibility issues.

Hope that clears a few things up."
 
[quote name='Nogib']Major Nelson clears up the confusion going around the net here: http://majornelson.com/2011/05/18/clearing-up-some-confusion/

"Clarification time! The console replacement plan that is the subject of some of today’s headlines is related to a previous update, NOT the system update that has been in public beta and will be deployed shortly.

The new disc format that is part of the beta has been rigorously tested across all Xbox 360 models and there are no known compatibility issues.

Hope that clears a few things up."[/QUOTE]

Yeah the Xbox support people told me that on Twitter. The January update screwed up a bunch of consoles and they never acknowledged it. People who contacted support were accused of modding their consoles. http://forumsarchive.xbox.com/11/35568488/ShowPost.aspx#35568488
 
Wait wait wait...

So the systems that are being replaced are the ones being affected by the update TOMORROW?

or

Ones that were affected in the past? And were accused by hackers.

I have a system that got the "Open Tray" issue a few months ago and we ended up buying a new system. I still have it, but we had to for that reason.

When I called in a minute ago though, they said it was for the patch coming tomorrow.
 
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[quote name='ExplodingRat']Wait wait wait...

So the systems that are being replaced are the ones being affected by the update TOMORROW?[/QUOTE]

No.
 
Lol hmm I have a 360 that was given to me from support back in 2008 which is still kicking yet I install most of my games to keep the wear and tear off the drive, since it sounds like it's chewing up discs.
 
Anyone have any more info such as if it affects all discs or just some? I have a semi-defective Xbox from 2007 that has just been sitting around here for awhile. Its got some problems but can still use it. I powered it up and it updated and it seemed to load one game fine. I guess it is not affected or should I try more games?

edit: tried several discs with no issues so I'm assuming my console was not affected.
 
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Has anyone actually contacted microsoft to get info on what firmware did this? I have a 360 that stopped reading disks 4-6 months ago and I thought the drive just up and went. Maybe thats not the case?
 
[quote name='Mizley']Has anyone actually contacted microsoft to get info on what firmware did this? I have a 360 that stopped reading disks 4-6 months ago and I thought the drive just up and went. Maybe thats not the case?[/QUOTE]

I have a 360 with the same exact problems... Stopped reading discs about 4-6 months ago. Not all discs, but most of them. I ended up having to replace the drive. I wonder if I threw my old drive back in there if I would qualify.

Or maybe since I opened up the console to swap drives all hope is lost...
 
i had my original launch 360 randomly start having problems with the HDD after an update last november i think, when i contacted them they told me basically to go buy a new hard drive, all my save files from over the years and everything were lost... and the 360 itself then started having problems even after replacing the hard drive, it would randomly freeze up on certain games and on the dashboard it would start going extremely slow/freezing up... told them about that too and they basically said i should just replace the 360, since the warranty was up there was nothing they would do for me.

edit: actually it could have been from january, i dont remember nor do i care anymore. all i know is i downloaded some update and after that my 360 that never had a problem in years, randomly started freezing up on the dashboard and if it didnt freeze up on the dashboard, when i put discs in as well. but i dont know if its related to this specific update or not, is there any way to tell? probably not. i've purchased a new console since then and moved on, anyways...
 
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I guess if your console was one effected you were already contacted, mine freezes up too while playing, it froze last night playing War for Cybertron but I don't know if that was one of the symptoms.
 
I gave an Xbox 360 to my brother to use out at college, but he ended up never taking it out of the box (we're nothing alike). It's from 2009, around the summer, and was given to me by Microsoft as a replacement for an E-74'd console.

It has not been connected to the internet for over a year and it hasn't been updated. I use a 360 S, so this other one was just a spare. How will I notice the issue if I connected this other model to the internet and updated it right now? What discs did people on this site have errors with?
 
[quote name='The Ebbtide']I gave an Xbox 360 to my brother to use out at college, but he ended up never taking it out of the box (we're nothing alike). It's from 2009, around the summer, and was given to me by Microsoft as a replacement for an E-74'd console.

It has not been connected to the internet for over a year and it hasn't been updated. I use a 360 S, so this other one was just a spare. How will I notice the issue if I connected this other model to the internet and updated it right now? What discs did people on this site have errors with?[/QUOTE]


I don't think anyone had any issues with the update yet because it's still being rolled out. Someone said I think the rollout will finish sometime in June? So if your machine is still working come mid June maybe, yours is fine? I forget.
 
Well I got the update yesterday and my 360 was still playing games, kinda was hoping it would stop working since mine is so old but oh well.
 
so i just got the prompt for the new dashboard update. Its d.loading right now. I remember reading that this update basically lets you pay with paypal, and introduces some new encryption method to xbox discs. Ok, whatever. The problem is i hear its screwing up some systems. Making them unable to read some of the old disks.

What i havent heard is how you find out if your console is effected. Does it auto detect and let you know? Or do you have to literally go through your entire game collection and put every game in to make sure it works? Because i have a BIG library, that would take quite a while. I do hear MS is offering replacement consoles for those effected, so thats cool, but i was just wondering how you check if your system is effected or not. Anyone know? I hope it auto detects or something
 
Yeah, I'd like to know too.

I have a 360 that had the open tray error after the Winter patch, but we ended up buying a new one.

We kept the old one since it was worth nothing, in case we felt like messing with it later.

We got the patch on the new system so I plugged in the fatty, and I downloaded it on the broken system. Put a game in and I still get the open tray situation. Should I sit and wait? Not sure what to do. :(
 
hmm looks like my post got merged into this thread? Really wish theyd send you a pm when that happens.

Anyway my question still stands, how to find out if you got a bricked console from the update. Does it tell you automatically? (some reports indicated that it gives you a message?) or do you have to put your entire library in one at a time to see if you have a problem? That will take FOREVER for me, seriously.

I skimmed the 2nd page here and i see people claiming the problem was with a PREVIOUS update, something about an open tray issue.. and i dont think thats the case at all. The reports id seen indicate the problem is THIS update
 
It is THIS update, but they are rolling it out in waves, like I posted I got it on what Thursday I think?

My games work fine, I would imagine the indication that it bricks your machine is..........................it bricks your machine...............

I've HEARD That MS can tell what machines are effected but they claimed it was a small percentage that will fail due to the update. Haven't heard anything about messages being sent to people that are effected.
 
[quote name='Kenshindono']the problem was with a PREVIOUS update[/QUOTE]

You are correct. The news stories that were flying around the web was Microsoft replacing certain consoles due to the previous (Kinect) update.
 
Is anyone having issues connecting/getting the update?
I get the prompt saying I need the update, but it then stalls about 1/2 say through.
 
Old thread but for those still wondering if you can get a replacement slim or not simple way to tell, eject your DVD-ROM drive and look at the tray.

allthreedvdsf360.jpg


Hitachi drives for sure will be replaced as they are not able to handle the new XGD3 disc format. These drives also can not handle what is referred to as AP 2.5 (Anti-Piracy) which gives the console via the current dashboard the ability to do more in depth real time checks for copied games upon booting of the game disc.
 
Huh, now if you're wanting a new xbox 360 slim, you can just buy an ancient xbox 360 on ebay and ask microsoft for a new one!!!
 
[quote name='MrPiggles']Huh, now if you're wanting a new xbox 360 slim, you can just buy an ancient xbox 360 on ebay and ask microsoft for a new one!!![/QUOTE]

Be careful with old 360's on fleabay , many banned machines still floating around on there
 
Any chance the update would cause the 360 to not load past the xbox logo after updating? Someone asked me to fix their freezing 360 mnf date: 2006. I heard about this and updated his xbox, now it won't even load past the xbox logo when the HDD is attached. When I remove the hdd it loads fine. The 360 won't load if I attach my own 360's HDD either (120gb from a 2009 elite that was recently updated as well).
 
So I have a friend that updated his xbox (which happens to be an original 20GB that I sold him when I upgraded mine). I didn't get any email warning of an update doing anything to my console, so I guess I'm not affected by the update in this way.

Since he had never gotten online with his XBox (PS3 and PC gamer mainly), it still had the original dashboard with the sliding tabs. Following the update, the drive wouldn't read disks anymore.

I called MS support and they said they would offer a free repair, I mentioned this news story that had been plastered all over the gaming blogs as linked above. The support tech had me go into the system settings and check the "X Code". After reading that back to him, he said that this console was not one that was eligible for the replacement system.

My question is this: has there been any reports of people actually getting a new system (I haven't seen any in my, admittedly limited, forum browsing) or is it MS lip service trying to avoid another RROD-like marketing catastrophe?
 
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