New version of the Photo Channel coming in December (good-bye mp3 support)
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There's a lot of commentary on this over at GoNintendo. The main points I took are:
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.
[quote name='Strell']There's a lot of commentary on this over at GoNintendo. The main points I took are:
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.[/quote]
I just saw someone bitching about the use of AAC in a Gamefaqs forum. I don't understand why people would be pissed that Nintendo is upgrading to a file format that's better than MP3. It's no Flac or SHN, but still, who hates improvements?
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.[/quote]
I just saw someone bitching about the use of AAC in a Gamefaqs forum. I don't understand why people would be pissed that Nintendo is upgrading to a file format that's better than MP3. It's no Flac or SHN, but still, who hates improvements?
[quote name='Squall835']I just saw someone bitching about the use of AAC in a Gamefaqs forum. I don't understand why people would be pissed that Nintendo is upgrading to a file format that's better than MP3. It's no Flac or SHN, but still, who hates improvements?[/QUOTE]
Primarily because AAC has DRM capabilities built in. I imagine Nintendo is seeing this through the same eyes that think Friend Codes actually "save" children from being raped and molested, except in this case, they see it more as a way for them to cover their own ass from being sued (potentially) by the RIAA for allowing users to play "illegally obtained mp3 files."
It's kind of like taking one step forward, and one step immediately back. There's nothing really lost or gained by changing over to AAC - especially when conversion is very easy and relatively painless - but some people will view it as an infringement upon their rights/freedoms/etc, whatever other rhetoric they want to throw in to make it sound like they are an abused wife or some shit.
Which makes me think the Friend Codes comparison is really apt, but then again, I'm one of the few that while thinking they aren't the greatest method to encourage online play, I still put up with it since the alternative - no online play - is far less agreeable to me.
The biggest question is how this affects in-game mp3 decoding. I think it's on a game-by-game basis, so Endless Ocean and ExciteTruck should still retain their ability to play mp3s. But if this is Nintendo's way of moving away from that, I wonder if we'll see "Play your own AAC files!" stickers on the outside of games soon.
'Sides, there's always these rumors running around about Nintendo and Apple getting cozy with each other. While I always, ALWAYS highly doubt that communion, this would be something that could either lead to one or tip the (potentially) already tender scales. I mean, if you make your system compatible with Apple's weapon of choice, I imagine they'd enjoy such tribute.
(Please note I have no idea if the PS3 and 360 can play AAC files. They are billed as media hubs, so I'd like to think that they can, but since I have neither and most likely won't have either for a long time, I have no way of knowing, as I don't care until then.)
Primarily because AAC has DRM capabilities built in. I imagine Nintendo is seeing this through the same eyes that think Friend Codes actually "save" children from being raped and molested, except in this case, they see it more as a way for them to cover their own ass from being sued (potentially) by the RIAA for allowing users to play "illegally obtained mp3 files."
It's kind of like taking one step forward, and one step immediately back. There's nothing really lost or gained by changing over to AAC - especially when conversion is very easy and relatively painless - but some people will view it as an infringement upon their rights/freedoms/etc, whatever other rhetoric they want to throw in to make it sound like they are an abused wife or some shit.
Which makes me think the Friend Codes comparison is really apt, but then again, I'm one of the few that while thinking they aren't the greatest method to encourage online play, I still put up with it since the alternative - no online play - is far less agreeable to me.
The biggest question is how this affects in-game mp3 decoding. I think it's on a game-by-game basis, so Endless Ocean and ExciteTruck should still retain their ability to play mp3s. But if this is Nintendo's way of moving away from that, I wonder if we'll see "Play your own AAC files!" stickers on the outside of games soon.
'Sides, there's always these rumors running around about Nintendo and Apple getting cozy with each other. While I always, ALWAYS highly doubt that communion, this would be something that could either lead to one or tip the (potentially) already tender scales. I mean, if you make your system compatible with Apple's weapon of choice, I imagine they'd enjoy such tribute.
(Please note I have no idea if the PS3 and 360 can play AAC files. They are billed as media hubs, so I'd like to think that they can, but since I have neither and most likely won't have either for a long time, I have no way of knowing, as I don't care until then.)
CouRageouS
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The Photo Channel is actually pretty cool. At the end of my Dad's bday bbq this year, we all sat around looking at the days photos on my parents giant TV. That alone convinced my older brother to consider buying a Wii himself. Granted the 360 can access all my pics through my computer rather than just the ones on my SD card, but its the way you can play with and manipulate the photos in the channel that made it pretty cool to cap off a day's events.
RollingSkull
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[quote name='Strell']There's a lot of commentary on this over at GoNintendo. The main points I took are:
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.[/quote]
This is retarded Nintendo, and its just bitching for more to this than updating my photo channel meets the DRM, wtf.
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.[/quote]
This is retarded Nintendo, and its just bitching for more to this than updating my photo channel meets the DRM, wtf.
"Primarily because AAC has DRM capabilities built in. "
Wait, that's not quite right. Some AAC files can have DRM -- most notably, most songs from the iTunes Store. But you can have AAC files with no DRM as well. In iTunes there's two ways to get them. First, you can buy an "iTunes Plus" song in the iTunes Store -- you'll get an AAC file that has no DRM that can be played anywhere that supports that format. You can also put a CD into your computer and use iTunes to rip it into AAC format and again, no DRM.
So in one sense you're right; AAC does allow for DRM, but it's not mandated by any means. I'm not sure if Strell meant to imply all AAC files have DRM, but I wanted to make clear what the deal was.
That all said, I'm not sure why Nintendo wouldn't simply add the ability to play AAC as an addition to the current MP3 capability, rather than replacing it. I can't think of any media player than can play AAC that can't play MP3.
Wait, that's not quite right. Some AAC files can have DRM -- most notably, most songs from the iTunes Store. But you can have AAC files with no DRM as well. In iTunes there's two ways to get them. First, you can buy an "iTunes Plus" song in the iTunes Store -- you'll get an AAC file that has no DRM that can be played anywhere that supports that format. You can also put a CD into your computer and use iTunes to rip it into AAC format and again, no DRM.
So in one sense you're right; AAC does allow for DRM, but it's not mandated by any means. I'm not sure if Strell meant to imply all AAC files have DRM, but I wanted to make clear what the deal was.
That all said, I'm not sure why Nintendo wouldn't simply add the ability to play AAC as an addition to the current MP3 capability, rather than replacing it. I can't think of any media player than can play AAC that can't play MP3.
Ahhh.
I originally envisioned it as having the capability, and thus figured most had it already built-in, but it's good to have someone who knows more than me fill us in with better details. Thanks kiril!
Also, ITDEFX said this might be about licensing, which was also hinted at in the GoNintendo comments.
I originally envisioned it as having the capability, and thus figured most had it already built-in, but it's good to have someone who knows more than me fill us in with better details. Thanks kiril!
Also, ITDEFX said this might be about licensing, which was also hinted at in the GoNintendo comments.
Cambot
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[quote name='Strell']There's a lot of commentary on this over at GoNintendo. The main points I took are:
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.[/QUOTE]
Oh, yeah? Well, here's what I have to say:
I bet Nintendo is using the Photo channel to force (encourage) users to upload songs in the new format for reasons not yet clear.
And I ain't uploading. Or upgrading. Who uses the mp3 feature anyway?
See, Strell?? I... I didn't...
Damn.
1) "This is retarded Nintendo, and it's totally a plot to issue in DRM, wtf."
2) "Fine, I won't update my Photo channel."
3) "Does anyone actually use the mp3 feature, or are you just bitching for bitching's sake?"
4) "I expect there to be more to this than meets the eye."
I imagine all the posts in this thread will fall into those categories.[/QUOTE]
Oh, yeah? Well, here's what I have to say:
I bet Nintendo is using the Photo channel to force (encourage) users to upload songs in the new format for reasons not yet clear.
And I ain't uploading. Or upgrading. Who uses the mp3 feature anyway?
See, Strell?? I... I didn't...
Damn.
[quote name='Strell']Ahhh.
I originally envisioned it as having the capability, and thus figured most had it already built-in, but it's good to have someone who knows more than me fill us in with better details. Thanks kiril!
Also, ITDEFX said this might be about licensing, which was also hinted at in the GoNintendo comments.[/QUOTE]
Licensing sounds like a good bet. Also another thing about DRM-- there's no "standard" DRM that comes with AAC. Apple has their own DRM system with AAC, but only Apple gets to decide what devices can be used to work with that DRM. Other companies may have their own DRM schemes attached to AAC -- I don't know anyone else that's selling AAC with DRM restrictions off the top of my head though.
AAC itself is not owned by Apple, in case that's not clear. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding for more info.
So unless Nintendo has made a specific deal with Apple to use their DRM (unlikely), what will happen is that Nintendo's AAC playback will be limited to non-DRM AAC songs like I described in my previous post. Even if they did make that deal, non-DRM tracks would have to work, because as I said, Apple is selling without DRM via "iTunes Plus". So DRM haters shouldn't have anything to worry about.
I originally envisioned it as having the capability, and thus figured most had it already built-in, but it's good to have someone who knows more than me fill us in with better details. Thanks kiril!
Also, ITDEFX said this might be about licensing, which was also hinted at in the GoNintendo comments.[/QUOTE]
Licensing sounds like a good bet. Also another thing about DRM-- there's no "standard" DRM that comes with AAC. Apple has their own DRM system with AAC, but only Apple gets to decide what devices can be used to work with that DRM. Other companies may have their own DRM schemes attached to AAC -- I don't know anyone else that's selling AAC with DRM restrictions off the top of my head though.
AAC itself is not owned by Apple, in case that's not clear. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding for more info.
So unless Nintendo has made a specific deal with Apple to use their DRM (unlikely), what will happen is that Nintendo's AAC playback will be limited to non-DRM AAC songs like I described in my previous post. Even if they did make that deal, non-DRM tracks would have to work, because as I said, Apple is selling without DRM via "iTunes Plus". So DRM haters shouldn't have anything to worry about.
[quote name='TimPV3']I always found the Photo Channel to be a pointless feature. We took out DVD support because we're all about the games, yet we want your family to look at photos.[/QUOTE]
DVD capability would give people a reason to buy the system solely as a DVD player. Yes, that wouldn't make much sense since it is expensive for DVD playback, but the point is that some people might buy one just to play Wii Sports, and then use it to watch DVDs the rest of the time. So it might somewhat interfere with Nintendo's overall intentions of software sales.
Photo channel doesn't necessarily have that same power, since it's a small addition that was most likely put into the Wii simply because there's an SD card slot on the system.
I don't actually think that's the reason they took it out - I think they took it out for costs reasons. Whether or not that is true is only known to the people working inside Nintendo.
Point being that your comparison really doesn't make as much sense as you'd like it to. Though I'll be fair and say my argument against it isn't very strong.
DVD capability would give people a reason to buy the system solely as a DVD player. Yes, that wouldn't make much sense since it is expensive for DVD playback, but the point is that some people might buy one just to play Wii Sports, and then use it to watch DVDs the rest of the time. So it might somewhat interfere with Nintendo's overall intentions of software sales.
Photo channel doesn't necessarily have that same power, since it's a small addition that was most likely put into the Wii simply because there's an SD card slot on the system.
I don't actually think that's the reason they took it out - I think they took it out for costs reasons. Whether or not that is true is only known to the people working inside Nintendo.
Point being that your comparison really doesn't make as much sense as you'd like it to. Though I'll be fair and say my argument against it isn't very strong.
In today's homes, people already have like at least 3 dvd players...not counting the computer equipped dvd player. I don't need another dvd player.
I was also thinking Nintendo *might* be getting ready to start up Music channel to sell music in the near future..... hmm..
I was also thinking Nintendo *might* be getting ready to start up Music channel to sell music in the near future..... hmm..
[quote name='ITDEFX']In today's homes, people already have like at least 3 dvd players...not counting the computer equipped dvd player. I don't need another dvd player.
[/QUOTE]
And Nintendo doesn't need to do anything that might potentially hurt software sales.
It's kind of the same logic in both situations.
[/QUOTE]
And Nintendo doesn't need to do anything that might potentially hurt software sales.
It's kind of the same logic in both situations.
This move really sucks, as someday I envisioned I would be able to listen to MP3s while playing games and wii-surfing the web.
Here is some information on licensing charges for hardware, though the section on games may be relevant, too. I don't understand all of this too much.
http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/hardware.html
Here is some information on licensing charges for hardware, though the section on games may be relevant, too. I don't understand all of this too much.
http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/hardware.html
Super Maio Fan
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[quote name='ITDEFX']In today's homes, people already have like at least 3 dvd players...not counting the computer equipped dvd player. I don't need another dvd player.
I was also thinking Nintendo *might* be getting ready to start up Music channel to sell music in the near future..... hmm..[/QUOTE]
And save it on SD cards?
Nintendo has a lot more things left to do hardware wise if they want to implement something like this.
I was also thinking Nintendo *might* be getting ready to start up Music channel to sell music in the near future..... hmm..[/QUOTE]
And save it on SD cards?
Nintendo has a lot more things left to do hardware wise if they want to implement something like this.
ArthurDigbySellers
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[quote name='CouRageouS']The Photo Channel is actually pretty cool. At the end of my Dad's bday bbq this year, we all sat around looking at the days photos on my parents giant TV. That alone convinced my older brother to consider buying a Wii himself. Granted the 360 can access all my pics through my computer rather than just the ones on my SD card, but its the way you can play with and manipulate the photos in the channel that made it pretty cool to cap off a day's events.[/quote]
I did the same thing at my daughter's 2 year birthday party. I just loaded a 1 Gig SD card with pics, put it in my Wii and let it play during the party. It was a big hit with the relatives.
I'm thinking this is definitely a move to integrate somehow with Apple's iTunes or just an iPod. Can't wait to see where this is heading. I actually like the default music that plays with the slideshows in the Photo Channel.
I did the same thing at my daughter's 2 year birthday party. I just loaded a 1 Gig SD card with pics, put it in my Wii and let it play during the party. It was a big hit with the relatives.
I'm thinking this is definitely a move to integrate somehow with Apple's iTunes or just an iPod. Can't wait to see where this is heading. I actually like the default music that plays with the slideshows in the Photo Channel.
MisterHand
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Not sure I like this. Seems like a scheme to sneak in DRM down the line. I probably won't update the photo channel. Then again, I don't think I've ever used the MP3 feature, so its probably a moot point. Still, I have a feeling there's more to this than meets the eye.
guyver2077
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wtf..
how can you not support mp3...
whos the brains behind this operation..
how can you not support mp3...
whos the brains behind this operation..
guyver2077
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[quote name='Strell']I'm surprised you can spell mp3.[/quote]
thanks for the commentary
thanks for the commentary
[quote name='guyver2077']thanks for the commentary[/QUOTE]
I should say the same to you. I mean you come into this forum specifically to troll, so why shouldn't someone like me give you shit about it?
I realize that's difficult for a 13 year old who idolizes sweaty mean in spandex to understand, who wants to do nothing more than bash consoles where he can't teabag opponents his teammates killed for him anyway, because he's too busy saying dumbshit on voicechat.
I should say the same to you. I mean you come into this forum specifically to troll, so why shouldn't someone like me give you shit about it?
I realize that's difficult for a 13 year old who idolizes sweaty mean in spandex to understand, who wants to do nothing more than bash consoles where he can't teabag opponents his teammates killed for him anyway, because he's too busy saying dumbshit on voicechat.
JoeTheZombie
CAG Veteran
I've never used the music capabilities of the photo channel, but most my rips are in aac anyway, so this is good news to me. I'll have to try it out.
But, anytime a feature is taken away, it's a bad thing. MP3 support is the defacto standard, and Nintendo should really think twice about this move... especially with the new Amazon online store that sells in mp3 format.
I see no reason why both formats couldn't be supported.
But, anytime a feature is taken away, it's a bad thing. MP3 support is the defacto standard, and Nintendo should really think twice about this move... especially with the new Amazon online store that sells in mp3 format.
I see no reason why both formats couldn't be supported.
MarioColbert
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Kiril is correct, AAC is not owned by Apple - but iTunes happens to be one of the most popular players for encoded music, and iTunes will encode everything AAC.
Audiophiles don't get much with AAC - V0 VBR mp3, and "new" LAME ABR "archive" preset for encoding provides more than enough. However where mp3 fails (and it does fail with large quantities of high frequency noise, and fails miserably in encoding of a widely animated stereo field), OGG picks up. As far as I am concerned, OGG is the best audio format for lossy material, but since nobody
ing supports it proper (iTunes certainly does not, though that's fixable) the best of the lossy formats is ignored greatly.
Now, before I continue, let me say this: I don't use the Photo Channel, although I do want to utilize it for all the talks that I have to do at the uni. (So far, I've been too busy for the opportunity to present itself) Wiimote in one hand - Wii Output on a big screen - I think that's the most perfect way to run a meeting. My major is music composition, so having audio files on the Wii would be helpful, but that isn't to say that I'd be hard up for a method to play back audio files in the first place.
All the same, I disagree with the decision. I do not understand what Nintendo has to gain from cutting down mp3 support - most of my mp3 files are legally encoded backups of CDs that I own (and since having my 300+ CD Case stolen, I'm certainly glad I've archived everything into ogg/mp3). I do believe that DRM is moreso attached to AAC mp4 format, due to Apple's appropriation thereof. Whether you use the service or not, however, I can't see anyone going "yay, potentially less liberties tomorrow than today! woo!"
I'm sure someone will say something stupid about how mp3s "break the law" and "hurt the artists." Listen - that's bullshit, and you should know better that this. I'm a member of ASCAP, and I'm all about making money off my shit. And digital distribution is just as important these days as "radio" was in its heyday (50s, 60s, and 70s).
Still don't really give a shit about having that feature within the Photo Channel.
Audiophiles don't get much with AAC - V0 VBR mp3, and "new" LAME ABR "archive" preset for encoding provides more than enough. However where mp3 fails (and it does fail with large quantities of high frequency noise, and fails miserably in encoding of a widely animated stereo field), OGG picks up. As far as I am concerned, OGG is the best audio format for lossy material, but since nobody
ing supports it proper (iTunes certainly does not, though that's fixable) the best of the lossy formats is ignored greatly.Now, before I continue, let me say this: I don't use the Photo Channel, although I do want to utilize it for all the talks that I have to do at the uni. (So far, I've been too busy for the opportunity to present itself) Wiimote in one hand - Wii Output on a big screen - I think that's the most perfect way to run a meeting. My major is music composition, so having audio files on the Wii would be helpful, but that isn't to say that I'd be hard up for a method to play back audio files in the first place.
All the same, I disagree with the decision. I do not understand what Nintendo has to gain from cutting down mp3 support - most of my mp3 files are legally encoded backups of CDs that I own (and since having my 300+ CD Case stolen, I'm certainly glad I've archived everything into ogg/mp3). I do believe that DRM is moreso attached to AAC mp4 format, due to Apple's appropriation thereof. Whether you use the service or not, however, I can't see anyone going "yay, potentially less liberties tomorrow than today! woo!"
I'm sure someone will say something stupid about how mp3s "break the law" and "hurt the artists." Listen - that's bullshit, and you should know better that this. I'm a member of ASCAP, and I'm all about making money off my shit. And digital distribution is just as important these days as "radio" was in its heyday (50s, 60s, and 70s).
Still don't really give a shit about having that feature within the Photo Channel.
guyver2077
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[quote name='Strell']I should say the same to you. I mean you come into this forum specifically to troll, so why shouldn't someone like me give you shit about it?
I realize that's difficult for a 13 year old who idolizes sweaty mean in spandex to understand, who wants to do nothing more than bash consoles where he can't teabag opponents his teammates killed for him anyway, because he's too busy saying dumbshit on voicechat.[/quote]
you must of ran out of gay jokes...
And i wasnt trolling or bashing anything... While it may not matter to some, the .mp3 format is used by everyone and keeps things simple.
you should stick to your ott.
I realize that's difficult for a 13 year old who idolizes sweaty mean in spandex to understand, who wants to do nothing more than bash consoles where he can't teabag opponents his teammates killed for him anyway, because he's too busy saying dumbshit on voicechat.[/quote]
you must of ran out of gay jokes...
And i wasnt trolling or bashing anything... While it may not matter to some, the .mp3 format is used by everyone and keeps things simple.
you should stick to your ott.
No skin off my nose as I've never used the photo channel or put any mp3s on the console.
I could see the move to AAC being annoying for those who do use it though all 3500+ songs off my ripped cds are in MP3 as I've never bought (nor will buy) an iPod product.
But again, I don't use it so I don't care. Too easy to just stream music to my 360 from my Media Center PC.
I could see the move to AAC being annoying for those who do use it though all 3500+ songs off my ripped cds are in MP3 as I've never bought (nor will buy) an iPod product.
But again, I don't use it so I don't care. Too easy to just stream music to my 360 from my Media Center PC.
bread's done