Obama Care Could Be Deadly

[quote name='Msut77']He is waiting for us to give up noticing he has absolutely zero response.[/QUOTE]

Now, now. He did ask who is making all this extra money.

Given a medicine such as Lipotor will cost 10X here in the USA as opposed to some countries in Europe. In that instance, I would argue Big Pharma.

Of course, that has been posted in this thread.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Are you waiting for a link to CEO salaries of health insurance companies and amount of political contributions?[/QUOTE]
I am waiting for Msut to give me proof of his accusations.

[quote name='Msut77']As much as any of your posts have any meaning.

Single payer or the truly needed more radical reform never even made it to the table.

It certainly wasn't because of merits and the money funneled to politicians by everyone getting rich off the status quo had a lot to do with it.[/QUOTE]

I want to know who is paying off what politician to prevent real reform. I don't think it will be too hard, he sounded very sure of himself. I don't have an opinion on it one way or the other, I just would like him to back up his statements once in awhile.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I am waiting for Msut to give me proof of his accusations.[/quote]

No you aren't.

You are stalling and pretending to be honestly in need of convincing because you are lazy and obtuse.
 
[quote name='Msut77']No you aren't.

You are stalling and pretending to be honestly in need of convincing because you are lazy and obtuse.[/QUOTE]

Okie Dokie, you dont want to support your own argument, that is fine with me, but don't throw accusations around until you can back them up.
 
It isn't that I can't back up what I say, it isn't that I even mind backing up what I say.

The point is you are shamelessly dishonest and just playing another one of your silly games.

You prove that with almost every single post.
 
[quote name='Msut77']It isn't that I can't back up what I say, it isn't that I even mind backing up what I say.
[/QUOTE]

Then back up what you say.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I refer to you to post #3378, knoell.

At least take a crack at the question I asked or don't bother to post anymore.[/QUOTE]

....I'll refer you to 3375, ya know, the one before 3378 when I asked you a question that simply asks you to supply evidence of your accusations.

Was it just me or was answering a question with a question (especially a deflection) frowned upon on these forums?
 
What I asked you wasn't a "deflection" Knoell, I am actually curious about what you think.

Anyhoo it would be rather silly of me to try obfuscate about something I've answered before.

I don't have anything to prove and I am not the first one to notice how hopeless you are.
 
The bill has passed, so now we can find out whats in it.

So can anyone address the title of this thread? Can we confirm/deny this? Is Obamacare deadly?
 
[quote name='IRHari']The bill has passed, so now we can find out whats in it.

So can anyone address the title of this thread? Can we confirm/deny this? Is Obamacare deadly?[/QUOTE]

Yes it is deadly.
 
[quote name='Msut77']What I asked you wasn't a "deflection" Knoell, I am actually curious about what you think.

Anyhoo it would be rather silly of me to try obfuscate about something I've answered before.

I don't have anything to prove and I am not the first one to notice how hopeless you are.[/QUOTE]

You make a comment such as this [quote name='msut77'] It certainly wasn't because of merits and the money funneled to politicians by everyone getting rich off the status quo had a lot to do with it. [/Quote]

and you feel you have nothing to prove? All I am interested in is the names of these companies that are funneling money to which politicians, to squander health reform. I mean to make a accusation such as that, you should already know who, and I would think you would want the politician to be brought out into the public eye or this forum at least.

At least give me a top contributors list to the politicians campaign, here's one that caught my eye. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638 Huh? Why is Obamas top contributors a bunch of banks, does that mean they payed him to bail them out?
 
[quote name='Knoell']You make a comment such as this

and you feel you have nothing to prove? All I am interested in is the names of these companies that are funneling money to which politicians, to squander health reform. I mean to make a accusation such as that, you should already know who, and I would think you would want the politician to be brought out into the public eye or this forum at least.

At least give me a top contributors list to the politicians campaign, here's one that caught my eye. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638 Huh? Why is Obamas top contributors a bunch of banks, does that mean they payed him to bail them out?[/QUOTE]

Whose side do you think Obama is on?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Whose side do you think Obama is on?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the banks paid him off to bail them out. I just want Msut to provide evidence of his accusations that politicians are being bought off, I want to know who these politicians are. It shouldn't be too hard for him.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Whose side do you think Obama is on?[/QUOTE]

Well, the banks and the health insurance companies' sides, for two.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Well, the banks and the health insurance companies' sides, for two.[/QUOTE]

That why Glass-Steagall isn't back in force and we got Obamacare instead of single payer.
 
So you guys are in favor of funneling tens of millions of more customers to these same big bad evil insurance companys? I am dumbfounded why any of you support this bill, and don't give me the "its better than nothing" crap.
 
Went to dinner with an accountant who said one of his doctor clients was given bonuses based on the amount of specialists he referred patients to. It was a tiered bonus based on his total number of HMO clients. The lower the percentage seeing specialists, the higher the bonus.

I'm certain this had no effect on him or any other doctor in America.
 
[quote name='Knoell']So you guys are in favor of funneling tens of millions of more customers to these same big bad evil insurance companys? I am dumbfounded why any of you support this bill, and don't give me the "its better than nothing" crap.[/QUOTE]

How about it's better than the current crap?
 
[quote name='speedracer']Went to dinner with an accountant who said one of his doctor clients was given bonuses based on the amount of specialists he referred patients to. It was a tiered bonus based on his total number of HMO clients. The lower the percentage seeing specialists, the higher the bonus.

I'm certain this had no effect on him or any other doctor in America.[/QUOTE]

Another example of how the incentives in our system are all wrong.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Another example of how the incentives in our system are all wrong.[/QUOTE]

Here's another example. In Massachusetts, and probably many other states in the Northeast, doctors are evaluated by the major insurance companies every two years and are rated by how "efficient" we are as providers (i.e. how many tests we order). Based on the rating, the patient's co-pay to see us goes up if we're deemed to be ordering too many tests or goes down if we don't order many tests. Being at a major academic medical center, of course, we tend to order more tests since we get the more difficult patients. Thus, not surprisingly all of us are given "inefficient" ratings and patients have to pay $5-10 more to see us on average.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Here's another example. In Massachusetts, and probably many other states in the Northeast, doctors are evaluated by the major insurance companies every two years and are rated by how "efficient" we are as providers (i.e. how many tests we order). Based on the rating, the patient's co-pay to see us goes up if we're deemed to be ordering too many tests or goes down if we don't order many tests. Being at a major academic medical center, of course, we tend to order more tests since we get the more difficult patients. Thus, not surprisingly all of us are given "inefficient" ratings and patients have to pay $5-10 more to see us on average.[/QUOTE]

Patients should be moved along since major academic centers cut on EVERYONE.
 
Republicans don't care about Pokemon.

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Rubio was caught being honest yesterday, saying that he wouldn't repeal parts of the health care law. Since even saying that is tantamount to treason, his handlers released a statement saying that Rubio wants the entire health care bill repealed... and replaced with a bill including parts of the current health care law.

I see what they did there.
 
Politically the only thing they *could* do is repeal the mandate, ideologically what they wish they could is repeal the subsidies.
 
The problem with opening up public healthcare in america is once they do that no one will get treatments in a timely manner because everyone will be able to go to the dr and such.

I havent had my eyes checked, my usual physical or been to the dentist in a year because I cant afford it. All I can get is a shitty part time job around here that has no insurance so I have to pray Im not seriously hurt or Ill be screwed financially for the next 2 decades. I have a guy that lives down my street that got some fingers pinched off working in his garage and he now has 2 fingers on his left hand because he couldnt pay to have them reattached because he lost his job. Yeah sure public healthcare sounds great but were not equipped for it as a entire country, if they just opened up public healthcare tonight every dr in the country would be booked for the next 2 years by the end of the week.

Before I lost my job at the hospital it wasnt uncommon to have someone die in the waiting lounge of the emergency room because they didnt get to them quick enough. Guy comes in having chest pain, left arm weakness and pain in his jaw and they say have a seat we will be with you shortly.
 
[quote name='gargus']The problem with opening up public healthcare in america is once they do that no one will get treatments in a timely manner because everyone will be able to go to the dr and such.
[/QUOTE]

It doesn't have to be that way. Taiwan has public health care and my girlfriend gets all kinds of checkups etc. when she goes back home (and in Taipei which is very densely populated) without having to wait more than a few days.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It doesn't have to be that way. Taiwan has public health care and my girlfriend gets all kinds of checkups etc. when she goes back home (and in Taipei which is very densely populated) without having to wait more than a few days.[/QUOTE]

But what about Tiny Tim who clogs up the ER with his breathalizer and his cold?
 
Jesus, what hospital was this where a guy who was clearly about to have a heart attack was told to sit and wait?

I heart anecdotal evidence to show that healthcare will now be rationed. Death panels and such. I guess we can confirm that Obamacare will indeed be deadly.

This thread can now be closed.
 
I really doubt that would be a problem, most people hate seeing doctors unless they absolutely have to. Even now, I wouldn't go to the ER for a cold, no way i'm waiting for hours because I have a simple respiratory infection. For that stuff most people would probably wait to go to a primary physician. Also, simple things like that can usually be handled by nurse practitioners, leaving doctors to handle more serious cases.
 
So because everyone can go see a doctor, it will cause some horrible back up in treatment? The same back up in treatment that you saw when you worked at a hospital?

So ERs will be flooded even though people will have the ability to see a family doctor? That small pain can be taken care of quickly and efficiently at a clinic instead of becoming a huge problem and time drain months later?

I could tell you a crazy ass story from last night that illustrates this point but it would probably be in violation of HIPAA so I'll just tell you that you're crazy and move on.
 
actually, as long as you don't use any names and we have no idea where exactly your said story took place, you're in the clear. the only way you would be in violation would be if your patient could read this board and clearly identify themselves.

=\
 
[quote name='Paco']But what about Tiny Tim who clogs up the ER with his breathalizer and his cold?[/QUOTE]

As other's said, such people would have insurance in a universal system and could go to their family doctor and not have no choice but to go to the ER which can't turn people away.

A universal health care system should cut down on ER visits, and increase traffic to family doctors etc. There could be some longer waits there for routine (non-sick) visits like physicals and other check ups. But is that really a big deal? And again, my girlfriend gets routine check ups in Taiwan with no more than a couple days wait, and gets in right away if it's urgent.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']actually, as long as you don't use any names and we have no idea where exactly your said story took place, you're in the clear. the only way you would be in violation would be if your patient could read this board and clearly identify themselves.

=\[/QUOTE]

Basically, someone that didn't have insurance waited a long time until he/she went to the hospital with a list of complaints. What he/she thought was his major issue got trumped by two way bigger issues that have put his/her life in jeopardy. Had he/she been able to go to a doctor once a year, the problem probably would've been caught earlier and treated.
 
[quote name='Clak']I really doubt that would be a problem, most people hate seeing doctors unless they absolutely have to. Even now, I wouldn't go to the ER for a cold, no way i'm waiting for hours because I have a simple respiratory infection. For that stuff most people would probably wait to go to a primary physician. Also, simple things like that can usually be handled by nurse practitioners, leaving doctors to handle more serious cases.[/QUOTE]

a whole lot more people are like that for a whole lot more that could be wrong with them. Again people just having insurance does not even mean they will go to the doctor once a year.

And on the whole family doctor thing, was it just me or was there insufficient family doctors before we added 30 million people to their patient lists?
 
[quote name='Knoell']And on the whole family doctor thing, was it just me or was there insufficient family doctors before we added 30 million people to their patient lists?[/QUOTE]

you're right.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Again people just having insurance does not even mean they will go to the doctor once a year.[/QUOTE]

So is there a problem with having one less roadblock in the way?
 
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