Obama to sign anti-smoking bill, time to horde cigs if you smoke!

i considered saying this a couple dozen posts ago but decided against it feeling someone else would say it soon enough, but they haven't, so: THIS LAW DOES NOT BAN CIGARETTES. STFU with the ban talk. if you'd click a single link it's stated pretty clearly:

the historic legislation, which gives the Food and Drug Administration unprecedented authority to regulate what goes into tobacco products, to make public the ingredients and to prohibit marketing campaigns geared toward children.
Click to expand...

why the hell do you all keep whining about the ban of cigs?



[quote name='LaMeRz']Is it ok if we ban idiots.[/QUOTE]
if we all vote yes, will you leave?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']A.) The indulgences into fatty foods does hurt us all when y'all have heart attacks, can't pay for the medical treatment, go bankrupt (etc...). See how I tied those two topics together?

B.) Several studies have shown that the effects of second hand smoke are greatly over rated. In fact, if you live in a major metro area, you breath in more carcinogens on a typical day than if you were to hang out in a crowded room full of smokers.[/QUOTE]

studies show that smokers are desperate to make themselves look good and will pull out whatever they can to rationalize their idiotic addiction
 
[quote name='Cheapass24']studies show that smokers are desperate to make themselves look good and will pull out whatever they can to rationalize their idiotic addiction[/QUOTE]


You get me, I love making myself look good, because smoking is so cool nowadays.

I wish I could look good in your eyes and have one of those intelligent addictions.

Could you link me to that research study you referenced?

In all seriousness; I smoke. I do it because it gave me a good buzz when I drank and smoked pot, and it was something to do when socializing at parties when I was in my late-teens. In no way find it cool by any stretch of the terms. It smells gross, its horrible for you, its at least an annoyance to people around it and at worst a serious health hazard, its expensive, and its inconvenient.

I support my state's smoking ban (to an extent). I support 10 dollar a pack prices. I support no marketing. I support extra taxation to go to health care.

Its a horrible addiction and its unfortunate that so many people seem to not want to admit that they have no idea what it's like to be addicted to such an addictive unhealthy drug, but instead opt to be judgmental assholes.
 
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[quote name='Koggit']if we all vote yes, will you leave?[/QUOTE]

I want to expand your mind. Who wants to only talk to people they agree with
 
[quote name='LaMeRz']I want to expand your mind. Who wants to only talk to people they agree with[/QUOTE]
but you're arguing in fantasyland, nobody banned cigs
 
This is completely and absolutely nuts to me. We have been sold poison for decades now. Finally the government steps in to do something about it(barely). And people are complaining. lololololol.....

fucking backwards land..."DDIS IS MURKAHH!! I'M FREE TO INHALLLEE ALLLL THE POISONZZ I WANNTT!! IF SUM11 WANTS TO SELL ME POISONS TO BREATHE I CAN PAY MY MONEYS FOR IT AND BLOW THE SECOND HAND POISONS OUT ALLLL AROUND ME! STUPID GUVAHMENT LOOKIN OUT FOR THE WELL BEING OF MYSELF AND OTHERZZ FOR ONCE!"

It's a product being sold to you, not a civil right. Sure you have the right to buy it but only as long as that product is manufactured. You have the right to drink ammonia, do you do that??
 
[quote name='Koggit']but you're arguing in fantasyland, nobody banned cigs[/QUOTE]

I am more arguing other points in this thread rather than the original article. And they haven't banned cigs yet, but from what I am seeing growing up and living in Southern California I give it 20 years until I gotta check with the state government to wipe my ass. baby steps...baby steps
 
[quote name='Cheapass24']studies show that smokers are desperate to make themselves look good and will pull out whatever they can to rationalize their idiotic addiction[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough, I don't smoke and think it's a disgusting, filthy habit. But I'd love to read one of those studies. Could you kindly point me toward one?

[quote name='HowStern']This is completely and absolutely nuts to me. We have been sold poison for decades now. Finally the government steps in to do something about it(barely). And people are complaining. lololololol.....

fucking backwards land..."DDIS IS MURKAHH!! I'M FREE TO INHALLLEE ALLLL THE POISONZZ I WANNTT!! IF SUM11 WANTS TO SELL ME POISONS TO BREATHE I CAN PAY MY MONEYS FOR IT AND BLOW THE SECOND HAND POISONS OUT ALLLL AROUND ME! STUPID GUVAHMENT LOOKIN OUT FOR THE WELL BEING OF MYSELF AND OTHERZZ FOR ONCE!"

It's a product being sold to you, not a civil right. Sure you have the right to buy it but only as long as that product is manufactured. You have the right to drink ammonia, do you do that??[/QUOTE]

Let's replace inhaling the poison with eating the poisons. Same argument, yet so many people have different positions on the two. It's great that the government wants to step in and keep people from smoking because it's bad for them. It's horrible if the government wants to step in and keep people from eating unhealthy foods, even though it is bad for them - making them fat, pathetic slobs that are a waste on society. You know those fat blubber whales that walk down middle of the aisles of the grocery store like they own the place and if you want through, you should have to wait for them - heaven forbid, they move to one side. And the way they feed their children - those kids are going to grow up just as fat and stupid as their parents.*

*By the way, I don't really feel anything like this, but with all the similar bashing going on against one group of people, I figure I'd fit right in taking my misdirected anger out on another group of people.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Oddly enough, I don't smoke and think it's a disgusting, filthy habit. But I'd love to read one of those studies. Could you kindly point me toward one?



Let's replace inhaling the poison with eating the poisons. Same argument, yet so many people have different positions on the two. It's great that the government wants to step in and keep people from smoking because it's bad for them. It's horrible if the government wants to step in and keep people from eating unhealthy foods, even though it is bad for them - making them fat, pathetic slobs that are a waste on society. You know those fat blubber whales that walk down middle of the aisles of the grocery store like they own the place and if you want through, you should have to wait for them - heaven forbid, they move to one side. And the way they feed their children - those kids are going to grow up just as fat and stupid as their parents.*

*By the way, I don't really feel anything like this, but with all the similar bashing going on against one group of people, I figure I'd fit right in taking my misdirected anger out on another group of people.[/QUOTE]

It's true being fat is no more or less a choice than smoking cigarettes . So for people that are over weight, or pop addicts, or whatever...they could at least understand the struggle one has with putting something unhealthy in their body.

I have no problem with people complaining about smoking in restaurants, public areas, on the sidewalk, and to a lesser extent bars,because it can affect a non-smoker, but to hear all these people demonize smokers and making judgments and personal attacks is rather disheartening.

I think heroin is a nasty habit, but I don't judge heroin addicts as idiots or trying to be trendy based the single fact that they are heroin addicts. I know I am just a few situations and one bad choice away from being where they are. Just as anyone is.
 
[quote name='gareman']It's true being fat is no more or less a choice than smoking cigarettes . So for people that are over weight, or pop addicts, or whatever...they could at least understand the struggle one has with putting something unhealthy in their body.

I have no problem with people complaining about smoking in restaurants, public areas, on the sidewalk, and to a lesser extent bars,because it can affect a non-smoker, but to hear all these people demonize smokers and making judgments and personal attacks is rather disheartening.

I think heroin is a nasty habit, but I don't judge heroin addicts as idiots or trying to be trendy based the single fact that they are heroin addicts. I know I am just a few situations and one bad choice away from being where they are. Just as anyone is.[/QUOTE]

Trying to not waste time here today like I did yesterday but ill respond to this since you seem to be a reasonable person and like there has been a misunderstanding. I dont think ALL smokers are assholes and idiots. I do however feel a very good portion of them either are assholes/idiots or their decent people but become AH/Idiots whenever they smoke. I do know smokers that I can respect both as non smokers and smokers. The maintenance guy at our building is a smoker and is slowly becoming a friend of mine...and guess what he insists on smoking outside! You dont even have to ask the guy to not smoke in your house he just automatically goes outside because he says its a filthy habit that others shouldnt have to suffer through. My cousin and her husband are the same way and also refuse to smoke in front of their daughter which again is the right thing to do and I love both of them very much for it.

So again I think there is a misunderstanding. I think few of us here think all smokers are assholes, we just tend to get heated because far too many smokers are indeed assholes. I feel bad for people like you that want to quit, I really do and it gives me a respect for you I didnt have before not just because your trying to quit but because your admitting the downsides to the hobby. I almost said the same of Obama earlier but I knew the jackasses here would just think I was just saying that because he is a liberal. Anyone that wants to quit smoking has my respect, I understand how hard it must be. Thats exactly most of the people here's problem, they cant admit the faults to the things they care for. It doesn't matter if its UncleBobs political rhetoric or Lamez or whatever his name is and how his smoking effects other people. If conservative ideology states that government shouldn't have the right to tread on a mans personal freedom, you would think it would also state that no man has right to piss on another mans freedom either.
 
[quote name='HowStern']This is completely and absolutely nuts to me. We have been sold poison for decades now. Finally the government steps in to do something about it(barely). And people are complaining. lololololol.....[/QUOTE]

And alcohol isn't a poison?
 
[quote name='HowStern']This is totally logical. Because if someone sitting next to you eats ice cream you will get fat, right? Oh, wait...[/QUOTE]

You are not going to die from the occasional smoker sitting next to you and blowing smoke in your face, either.

I don't really smoke, I have a cigar once every few months during celebrations. But I think people should have this freedom to smoke without having to pay $10+ for a pack of cigs thanks to gov't restrictions.
 
But if someone blows ice cream breath in your face, you don't get sick. I can get physcially ill if someone blows cigarette smoke in my face even when I used to smoke.

And to people that want to quit, just do it. Cold turkey is the way to go. Living in New York got me to quit because of the super high prices but I didn't use Nicorrette or any of the other crap that they try to get you to replace your habit with. You gotta say enough is enough and just put it down.

Again, this is a case of the government cracking down because smokers wouldn't. Maybe if non-smokers didn't have to live in a smoky haze for so long, they wouldn't be so anxious to crack down on it now. But no, everyone had to keep chain smoking in restaurants and other crowded areas. You continue to smoke in apartments (not a private property issue since you don't actually own them) and force your neighbors to just deal with the smoke. Why should non-smokers have to live with that stench?
 
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[quote name='Ruined']You are not going to die from the occasional smoker sitting next to you and blowing smoke in your face, either.

I don't really smoke, I have a cigar once every few months during celebrations. But I think people should have this freedom to smoke without having to pay $10+ for a pack of cigs thanks to gov't restrictions.[/QUOTE]

Like I said earlier even if I dont die I get physically ill when I am around smoke and so does my fiancee. Not to mention that again people that smoke often do so in front of their kids meaning their exposed every day constantly.
 
That's another thing that smokers can only blame themselves for. It's your personal right to smoke but what about the kid's right to not be around it? It always seemed very selfish to sit there and smoke around kids.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Again, this is a case of the government cracking down because smokers wouldn't. Maybe if non-smokers didn't have to live in a smoky haze for so long, they wouldn't be so anxious to crack down on it now. But no, everyone had to keep chain smoking in restaurants and other crowded areas. You continue to smoke in apartments (not a private property issue since you don't actually own them) and force your neighbors to just deal with the smoke. Why should non-smokers have to live with that stench?[/QUOTE]

If the owner of the restaurant or apartment is okay with smoking on his/her private property, then it should be allowed. If the owner is not okay, then they should be allowed to ban smoking in his/her private property and enforce it by asking those who light up to stop, leave or call the cops on them.
 
[quote name='Ruined']You are not going to die from the occasional smoker sitting next to you and blowing smoke in your face, either.
[/QUOTE]

My concern is with kids who grow up with parents who smoke. They live their entire lives breathing the stuff in. Also, asthmatics and people allergic to smoke.

@UncleBob, I'm for the banning of trans fat as well. I don't think people should be allowed to eat that. It drives up med costs for everyone. Heart disease is the number one killer in the U.S.

@Perdition, Alcohol is, indeed, poison. It doesn't contain as harsh a list of ingredients as cigarettes though. That link contains 3 pages of cigarette additives.

While these ingredients are approved as additives for foods, they were not tested by burning them, and it is the burning of many of these substances which changes their properties, often for the worse. Over 4000 chemical compounds are created by burning a cigarette, many of which are toxic and/or carcinogenic. Carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, hydrogen cyanide and ammonia are all present in cigarette smoke. Forty-three known carcinogens are in mainstream smoke, sidestream smoke, or both.
Click to expand...

As for the legality of alcohol..I honestly don't understand why it's legal when marijuana isn't. It's clearly caused more deaths and ruined more lives on top of being physically addictive.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']If the owner of the restaurant or apartment is okay with smoking on his/her private property, then it should be allowed. If the owner is not okay, then they should be allowed to ban smoking in his/her private property and enforce it by asking those who light up to stop, leave or call the cops on them.[/QUOTE]

That's how the state of Indiana treats it and it works out OK. I'm just glad they finally got rid of the smoking sections and just turned into smoking or non-smoking. It was always a little amusing when a smoking section consisted of a rope or four foot partition.

Don't forget that many (if not most) restaurant owners don't own the buildings they operate out of. Technically, it's not their private property then.
 
[quote name='HowStern']@UncleBob, I'm for the banning of trans fat as well. I don't think people should be allowed to eat that. It drives up med costs for everyone. Heart disease is the number one killer in the U.S.[/QUOTE]

But they're sooo tasty.... :(
 
[quote name='depascal22']That's how the state of Indiana treats it and it works out OK. I'm just glad they finally got rid of the smoking sections and just turned into smoking or non-smoking. It was always a little amusing when a smoking section consisted of a rope or four foot partition.

Don't forget that many (if not most) restaurant owners don't own the buildings they operate out of. Technically, it's not their private property then.[/QUOTE]

Then, of course, it would be up to the owner and the person renting the building to come to an agreement as to how the building will be used and how much the person renting it wants to pay for that use.

Unfortunately, I live in Illinois, where our wonderful imperial Chicago government leaders have banned smoking in *all* businesses (Except, I believe, Cigar bars...). I don't smoke, and I find the smell horrible, so I do have to admit, part of me likes it. However, the part of me that screams like a little child "It's my property, I can do what I want!" wins.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']If the owner of the restaurant or apartment is okay with smoking on his/her private property, then it should be allowed. If the owner is not okay, then they should be allowed to ban smoking in his/her private property and enforce it by asking those who light up to stop, leave or call the cops on them.[/QUOTE]

What about co-workers?

Are they required to smoke then to be employed?

Isn't that discriminatory?

I have no beef with people smoking... But smelling it, breathing the same air causes serious issues with lungs.

Private property sure, but if any spillith over to another than no. Grant Cigar Bars access.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Then, of course, it would be up to the owner and the person renting the building to come to an agreement as to how the building will be used and how much the person renting it wants to pay for that use.

Unfortunately, I live in Illinois, where our wonderful imperial Chicago government leaders have banned smoking in *all* businesses (Except, I believe, Cigar bars...). I don't smoke, and I find the smell horrible, so I do have to admit, part of me likes it. However, the part of me that screams like a little child "It's my property, I can do what I want!" wins.[/QUOTE]

Imperial? Did the city put up a wall to keep those dirty Wisconsinites out? Did they send ships to colonize the western shore of Michigan? I lived in Southern Illinois for five years and I loved when conservatives would rail against those dirty liberal Chicago politicians. Funny that they didn't have a thing to say when their kid paid next to nothing to go to one of the best state run universities in the nation. They didn't say anything when they had a higher minimum wage.

Back on topic, property owners love this new bill. It means they get back rentals that don't reek of smoke. It's hard to rent out commercial real estate and even harder when it absolutely reeks of smoke. Apartment owners have tried banning smoking in their buildings but, from reading stories in this thread, it doesn't work. Eviction isn't easy and usually only happens when people don't pay.

And HowStern said it best. What about the employees? Do they not have any rights? It's not like anyone can just quit a job these days.
 
[quote name='depascal22']That's another thing that smokers can only blame themselves for. It's your personal right to smoke but what about the kid's right to not be around it? It always seemed very selfish to sit there and smoke around kids.[/QUOTE]


Not to bring up the same counterargument over and over, but can't the same be said about people who eat unhealthy foods and feed it to their kids every single day?
 
[quote name='gareman']Not to bring up the same counterargument over and over, but can't the same be said about people who eat unhealthy foods and feed it to their kids every single day?[/QUOTE]

Yes that is true....but again its not an automatic. Unless someone really goes out of their way and only smokes outside when their kids are not around their kids are constantly exposed to it. The reverse with food is that what you eat doesnt go in your kids. I went from 350 pounds to 200 and now im back at 260 and working to get down to 200. Food has always been a struggle of mine and probably always will be, but if I ever had kids id never let them get very heavy. I bet id even trim down myself because I know they would need me thin both to do things with them and to be able to live a long life to be there for them.

Edit - Also kids can make the right chocies for themselves. Yes much of it is to blame on the parents who set them down the wrong path, but a child can still ultimately decide I want healthy food, a child cant decide I dont want this second hand smoke around me.
 
the health risks associated with second-hand smoke are dubious, imo it's more just that it's unpleasant

the kids dont typically hate eating that unhealthy food

if a parent constantly fed their kids unhealthy food that the kid didn't like, then yeah, i think that's pretty mean of the parent.. unless it was the only thing they could afford or something.
 
Dang smokers, stop complaining. It would be like if it was trendy to rub shit all over yourself - you smell like shit! And people would be pissed to be around you. And you'd see government banning people from rubbing shit on themselves and you have to hear all of them whine, "BUT BUT rubbing shit on myself doesnt hurt anyone else!" Yea, but you smell like shit!

All smokers smell like shit all the time and blow clouds of shit everywhere they go.

P.S. You smell like shit.
 
I kinda groan when I see people flicking butts off their balcony into the grass or out their car window onto the street, but what really gets to me is the smell.

My ex bf was a smoker and I think many are oblivious (immune?) to their own smell. They may have a good 10 minutes of freshness after their morning shower, but after they light that first cigarette, forget it. Their clothes stink, their hands stink even after they wash them and their breath stinks even after they brush their teeth. I used to roll over onto the other pillows in bed and be assaulted by the smell of smoke, and my ex was a very hygienic person otherwise. My cat stinks when people who smoke pet her. I tell them not to if I see them smoking because she doesn't want to smell that shit either.

Anyone should have the right to smoke obviously if they're capable of being considerate. That means don't do it in an enclosed space when you have an atmosphere one billion times the size of my lungs to blow your smoke into. I have a lot of friends & family who smoke, and besides the smell I'm cool with it if they're considerate. They will tell you they do not, but they do stink.

Even with all that ranting though, I can't say I'd never be with another smoker; I'm not perfect either and I certainly understand the power of addiction. I've also met some wonderful, good people who happened to smoke.

Oh yeah, and smoking in an automobile with a child with no windows rolled down merits a punch in the face.
 
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As someone who works in retail, I run into a lot of customers that stink - some that just down right reek. Perhaps the government should start up a program that requires individuals to bathe on a regular basis and use government approved soaps.

And to those defending the choice to eat unhealthy - as was discussed in another topic - some people are just too damn stupid to know what healthy choices are - they know fast food is "cheap, easy and tastes good". Perhaps we need the government to ban fast food so stupid people aren't tempted by bad choices.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']As someone who works in retail, I run into a lot of customers that stink - some that just down right reek. Perhaps the government should start up a program that requires individuals to bathe on a regular basis and use government approved soaps.

And to those defending the choice to eat unhealthy - as was discussed in another topic - some people are just too damn stupid to know what healthy choices are - they know fast food is "cheap, easy and tastes good". Perhaps we need the government to ban fast food so stupid people aren't tempted by bad choices.[/QUOTE]

OOO while their at it can they ban stupid conservatives that think that every little thing the government does is a ban on some non existent personal freedom? I am constantly being stresed out by my liberty being pissed on by conservatives whining all the time that every damn thing that's done is a ban(when its clearly not) of some freedom, so ya that would really work out swell for me.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']OOO while their at it can they ban stupid conservatives that think that every little thing the government does is a ban on some non existent personal freedom? I am constantly being stresed out by my liberty being pissed on by conservatives whining all the time that every damn thing that's done is a ban(when its clearly not) of some freedom, so ya that would really work out swell for me.[/QUOTE]

Fine - how about "highly regulate fast food" - happy?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Fine - how about "highly regulate fast food" - happy?[/QUOTE]

Haven't they already done that with Trans Fat?


There are already business rules for wearing too much cologne or perfume because people might get an adverse allergic reaction.

I get the same with smoke. I visit the in-laws and am not currently fighting off a sinus infection.

I think this comes down to, smoke as much as you want, but as soon as it treads on me, it's not ok.
 
One thing I gotta say... Smokers seem a shit load less gross after being around someone that like Chewing Tobacco...

[quote name='LaMeRz']Next on the list:

Salt
Cursing
Implementing the 3 sea shells

Demolition Man is coming true[/QUOTE]

lol, like Jolietjake I'll be ok too.

[quote name='JolietJake']So long as we have more than Taco Bell as a dining option, i'll be ok.[/QUOTE]
 
i'd rather live with a smoker, but i'd rather be in public with someone who chews tobacco

most smokers smell pretty terrible.. in small classes (
 
I guess I've gotten used to smokers (or... I haven't encountered as bad a smoker as u have so far...) since most of my family did it thoughout my childhood and now my dumbarse friends do it. Still smell (if any) can be washed out via shower and laundry. This chewing tobacoo crap gets spread by careless ass spitting everywhere and you pick that shit up along with all the other shit thoughout the day and then track it all over the inside of your house. fucking discusting...
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']This makes you the minority then. Just drive around and watch all the jackasses smoking in their car with kids in the back seat...[/QUOTE]


This is the biggest reason I'd be okay with any sort of smoking ban. You don't give a shit about your health? That's fine, but making your kids inhale it, not fine.
 
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