Oh internet gurus, help me upgrade

TheToiletDuck

TheToiletDuck

CAGiversary!
Allo,

I have read through a few of the threads from people thinking to upgrade but since it's a fair bit of money to spend i thought i'd ask some advice.

Basically, i need to buy a whole system. I want it to be future proof and i want it to look good when playing something Team fortress 2 (i think Crysis is a bit much to ask). I mainly use it for music, surfing the net and the odd dvd encoding now and then (not much). I probably wouldnt get into overclocking right away (unless it was easy and safe with my case)

I was thinking of this:
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
CPU: C2D E6750 OR Q6600
Ram: G.Skill 2gb Pc2-6400 , 5-5-5-15
Video: Inno3d 8800gt 512 OR Xfx 8800gt lone wolf/ dog the bounty hunter edition (go with christ :D)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200 500gb Sata 2 with 32mb cache
Case: Raidmax O2 pure with 500w power supply (PSU Specification: +3.3V=28A,+5V=34A,+12V=28A)


Some sort of cheap lcd 19inch monitor (maybe Viewsonic)



Questions:
Cpu: the D2C E6750 or Quad Q6600, the quad is worth the extra $100? I understand that not many programs actually take advantage of the quads but i really need this computer to be futureproof (Ecologists don't make much money)

Graphics card: Xfx costs more, is it worth it? I probalby wouldnt play company of heroes but could sell it

Hdd: Is it worth the extra buck for 32mb cache or should i go with cheaper 16mb for $10 less

and lastly the case and power supply, i wanted antec but they are ridiculous overpriced in NZ compared with the states so it's outside my budget. Should i use the extra money saved from getting dual core to get a better case/ power supply? 500w seems okay.


Thanks for all your help.
Merry Xmas
 
I dont think future proofing really works out very well. The rule used to be something like 80% of the power for 50% of the price.

I would say get a good motherboard though. I just built a machine for someone with a core 2 duo @ 2.2ghz and ddr2 800. The board however, has support for quad core and ddr3, so as long as the board holds out, his next upgrade is coming at a minimal cost, as opposed to having to replace EVERYTHING.

You can get a 8600 GT for like $100-125. It doesnt hold a candle to the 8800GT, but the 8800 GT is still in the neighborhood of $250+.

Theres going to be a sweetspot if you look at price vs power, and thats where you want to be.

I mean, if you want to run Crysis or whatnot at high levels, then thats your business, and you're going to pay a lot more than you should for it.
 
CPU: I say it's a bad idea to buy a part in hopes of future proofing. Technology literally changes so drastically from time to time it's hard to future proof. But quad cores do seem like a safe bet for the near future. I'd go for it if I don't need the money elsewhere.

GPU: When it comes to graphics cards, I always look at the warranty. BGF, eVGA, and XFX all offer lifetime warranties which is nice. Not sure how long you plan to keep the card though as most venders offer sufficient support (2-3 years).

HDD: A larger cache only helps for small files (think 1MB or less) and I honestly think it's a waste unless you plan to have nothing but text files and pictures. But if you're only moving a few small files and a any number of large files, a huge cache is worthless. I say stick with 16MB... it's a good number.

PS: 500 watts should be good for your system but be careful with the brand. There are reliable companies (Antec, Enermax, OCZ, Corsair, Fortron, Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling), inconsistant companies (Rosewill, Xclio) and then there's high questionable companies (Ultra, Aspire/Apevia, Kingwin, and pretty much everyone else).
 
I agree with Dr Mario Kart, I've been building PCs since the mid 80s & that's always been the case. The higher priced components never offer the same value as the budget ones.

Now with the Core2 series a $85 E2180, even the 1MB cache, w/ overclocking will be equal to a 6750
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/12/pentium_dual_core/page8.html
note: the charts are for a E2160 OCed, the 2180 is only $5 more and 200MHz faster to start.

however to do this you need to spend a smidgen more on your Mobo & RAM.
i would switch out the GA-P35-DS3L for the GA-P35-DS3P Rev 2.0.

the GA-P35-DS3P Rev 2.0 has a little better cooling & the ICH9R southbridge, which is good for OCing.

the ram should also be changed for a good 4-4-4-12 CL timing set. If youre going Vista 64 bit, you should spring for 4GB, it'll be worth it.

http://www.slickdeals.net
http://www.techbargains.com
http://www.fatwallet.com/c/18

all good sites to search for deals on ram. Crucial, Corsair, Patriot & GeIL are my favs. OCZ can be good, but sometimes their ram can be fussy w/ certain Mobos.

If you arent OCing, I would suggest going w/ AMD for the best bang/buck.
The best value AMD board out atm IMO is the ASUS M2N-E nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131022
currently $20 off instant at newegg.
the 5000+ black edition is also a very good CPU. it's Unlocked meaning that it can be OCed independent of the rest of the system.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/22/budget_overclocker/index.html

For HSFs (Heat sink fans) Zalman is the king of the hill. 7 & 9 series almost completely silent and very good at keeping temps down.

For PSUs (Power Suppy Units) It's VERY important not to get a cheap brand. PSU build quality effects the efficiency (how much electricity it will use), reliability, heat build up, & the health of everything in your computer (need stable voltages).

Brands I rec, Seasonic USA (ultra quiet), Corsair (uses Seasonic designs), PC Power & Cooling (the Benz of PSUs), OCZ, Antec (the Green 80plus series), Thermaltake (Pure/ToughPower Series), Cooler Master (Real Power Series)

for a Vid card, I would rec the Gigabyte GV-RX385512H
http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2622

Its a Radeon 3850 512MB and uses a Zalman cooler. It's based on a new 55nm fab and runs very cool. Should have some room for OCing if you choose, but even at stock speeds should be enough to run crysis 60FPS at 1280x1024 w/ full detail. It's also DX10.1 compliant; the 8800GTs aren't. I suggest this card because its currently the best Bang/Buck imo. Toms hardware also uses it in their reference system as well now. a year from now you should be able to pick up a mid level GeForce 9800 series card for the same price & this card would have dropped at most 50 in value on ebay.
The performance difference I expect to lessen over 2008 as well as ATi releases new drivers for it. The 8 series has had several driver iterations since its launch, but i don't think they'll be getting any more efficient now.

Via TomsHardware:
Radeon 3850
Codename: RV670
Process: 55nm
Universal Shaders: 320
Texture Units: 16
ROPs: 16
Memory Bus: 256-bit
Core Speed MHz: 670
Memory Speed MHz: 833 (1666 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10 / SM 4.0

The Radeon 3850 brings us something we've been begging for ever since the DirectX 10 cards were introduced: a sub-$200 card with performance comparable to the high-end products. The Radeon 3850 delivers Geforce 8800 GTS 320mb performance for more than $100 less.

If you're looking to get the best possible performance for the dollar, this card hits the sweet spot.
Click to expand...

The only problem is finding the card. MWave is the only store i know of selling it atm
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/externalTracking.asp?TrackingID=pageInfo&scriteria=AA72524
 
I'm fairly certain Team Fortress 2 uses a version of the Source engine which doesn't require much to run it. Hell, my old 9600 Pro and Athlon XP 2800+ PC can run it on medium.

8600- ~99$
P35-DSL3- ~89$
e6550- ~ 170$
2 gb sticks of ram of choice- ~60$ (Corsair xtreme)
corsair 520 psu- ~100$
Cooler Master centurion 5 case- ~50$

568$~ Before rebates etc.

Throw in a monitor for about 200$.

Be sure to check places other than NewEgg. ZipZoomFly has free shipping on things NewEgg doesn't and vice-versa.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I'm fairly certain Team Fortress 2 uses a version of the Source engine which doesn't require much to run it. Hell, my old 9600 Pro and Athlon XP 2800+ PC can run it on medium.[/quote]
Turns out that is exactly what my system is at the moment.
You are right, it will run it but i still feel i'm due for an upgrade (i've been having problems with mine as it is). My computer in it's current state has been really pissing me off.

Thank you all for the fantastic advice, keep in mind i don't live in the united states and don't have access to the deals at newegg and the such. Let alone some of the products you have. Oh, and everything is like 40usd more.

Lucky we have a website here that lists all the prices for computer stores around nz, so i can find out which is cheapest.

Before i saw the replies I priced up a complete system at my local store:
mobo: Gigabyte p35-ds3L
cpu: Intel C2D e6750
case: Silverstone SST-TJ04
psu: Silverstone Strider ST56F 560w
vid: XFX Geforce 8800 Gt Extreme Alpha Dog the bounty hunter edition
Ram: G.skill 2gb, 5-5-5-15
Hdd: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500gb 32mb cache
Monitor: LG L226WTQ-WF 22" Widescreen monitor
DVD: LG GSA-H62L 18x with lightscribe

That all comes to 2010NZD or 1536USD (including the pitiful 50nzd discount they gave me given what i was actually spending)


Having looked at what you guys have said i've thought about replacements on a few things which i'll just copy from excel:

mobo GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
psu Seasonic S12 ENERGY PLUS SS-550HT 550WATT POWER SUPPLY ACTIVE PFC
cpu Intel CORE 2 DUO E6750 2.66GHz 1.33GHz PROCESSOR OEM
vid card Gigabyte RX385512H
ram Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX 2GB Kit XMS2 4-4-4-12 with dhx coolers
monitor LG L226WTQ-WF 22"
hdd hdd - Seagate 500gb (32mb cache)
case Silverstone SST-TJ04 Aluminum Tower Case
dvd writer LG GSA-H62L Sata DVD Writer 18X LightScribe


That system comes to a total of : 1969NZD or 1504USD (no discount, various retailers)



Now, another question will most modern cases fit most modern psu's? Like the ones in my setup above for example?

Also, you really think that gigabyte radeon 3850 will play Crysis at 60fps and 1280x1024? You don't mean with Dx10 right? I though two 8800gts' put together couldnt do that.


I see what you're saying about the amd's but i prefer to stick with intel, and the e6750 because i'm not that comfortable about overclocking at this stage so want a good stock speed BUT at the same time would like the option to OC in the future.

I looked at the GA-P35-DS3P mobo but it's 75usd more.


p.s. i know this isn't a tech forum and i should be talking about games or the latest internet memes, but yeah you guys are pretty helpful and i appreciate it
 
Hmm, you're in NZ. That can change things since prices vary so much.

What site(s) do you use to shop there? I'll try and take a look and see where the value balances.
 
[quote name='TURBO']Hmm, you're in NZ. That can change things since prices vary so much.

What site(s) do you use to shop there? I'll try and take a look and see where the value balances.[/quote]

That would be great, but don't go out of your way (it's xmas eve! :D)

So my three main stores are www.qmb.co.nz (where i got the deal above (the first one in my last post),
www.xpcomputers.co.nz (the one i go to the most) and www.nzoczone.com (who seem to have way cheaper stuff then the rest but i have never shopped there).

I also use www.pricespy.co.nz which searches all the stores for the cheapest price and lays them all out for you. Keep in mind if you use this that i live in Auckland (central Auckland to be exact), so a store in Christchurch (which is in the South Island of NZ) is no use to me :)
 
[quote name='TheToiletDuck']
Also, you really think that gigabyte radeon 3850 will play Crysis at 60fps and 1280x1024? You don't mean with Dx10 right? I though two 8800gts' put together couldnt do that.
[/quote]
No, I highly doubt it will. I have an e6850, 2gb ram, 8800gt superclocked and get around 40fps on 1024x768.

Everything else you said seems fine. Go with intel and nVidia. They are the best right now for performance and bang for the buck. With the 8800gt, you're basically getting a GTX for half the price.

Edit:
If you want to save some extra money and don't mind overclocking, I was reading somewhere on CAG and other places that the 2.2 intel dual core OC's to 3.0 (or around there) easily.
 
As long as its an ATX case and an ATX PSU you should be ok.

I looked at the price difference. $300NZD for the RX385512H here
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAGBV0093

and the 8800GTs seem to fluctuate $400-450.

I can't see the justification in the price jump considering the performance jump is marginal. Crysis is actually the game w/ the largest gap between them atm. On medium settings w/ all the details enabled in DX10 (no AA/AF) I've heard of it getting 30-60FPS (depending on the amount of action). On high settings it would probably drop to somewhere around 18-30. I have a feeling its because nVID sponsored the game (had access to & ability to tune drivers w/ prior to release); which is another reason I think the upcoming ATi drivers will provide a good bump in crysis performance. It's a pretty reliable cycle w/ big name sponsored games. Also the margin of difference becomes very small in other games (w/ the 512MB 3850s beating 8800GTs in some), which seems to further back up that hypothesis. note: there are 256MB versions of the 3850, avoid them; the extra ram is worth it. The Gigabyte is a great buy imo because of their solid build quality (use of high end capacitors & Zalman HSFs).

But if you can find a good deal on a 8800GT that would be an excellent choice as well. It will just be a little more noisy & consume a little more power. With the RX385512H at $300 i wouldnt spend any more than 400 on a 8800GT. If you do go w/ a 8800GT & choose that Inno3D you were contemplating, be aware that Inno3D fulfills it's warranty though the retail you bought it from. So make sure you trust that retailer & that they'll be around long enough if the card fails w/in the 2 year time period. The XFX has a lifetime warranty & XFX is a trusted brand, but then thats an additional $150 more than the RX385512H. You'll have to decide if its worth the extra money.

Best of luck & Happy holidays. 2008 is gunna be a great year i can feel it :)
 
As long as its an ATX case and an ATX PSU you should be ok.

I looked at the price difference. $300NZD for the RX385512H here
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=VGAGBV0093

and the 8800GTs seem to fluctuate $400-450.

I can't see the justification in the price jump considering the performance jump is marginal. Crysis is actually the game w/ the largest gap between them atm. On medium settings w/ all the details enabled in DX10 (no AA/AF) I've heard of it getting 30-60FPS (depending on the amount of action). On high settings it would probably drop to somewhere around 18-30. I have a feeling its because nVID sponsored the game (had access to & ability to tune drivers w/ prior to release); which is another reason I think the upcoming ATi drivers will provide a good bump in crysis performance. It's a pretty reliable cycle w/ big name sponsored games. Also the margin of difference becomes very small in other games (w/ the 512MB 3850s beating 8800GTs in some), which seems to further back up that hypothesis. note: there are 256MB versions of the 3850, avoid them; the extra ram is worth it. The Gigabyte is a great buy imo because of their solid build quality (use of high end capacitors & Zalman HSFs).

But if you can find a good deal on a 8800GT that would be an excellent choice as well. It will just be a little more noisy & consume a little more power. With the RX385512H at $300 i wouldnt spend any more than 400 on a 8800GT. If you do go w/ a 8800GT & choose that Inno3D you were contemplating, be aware that Inno3D fulfills it's warranty though the retailer you bought it from. So make sure you trust that retailer & that they'll be around long enough if the card fails w/in the 2 year time period. The XFX has a lifetime warranty & XFX is a trusted brand, but then thats an additional $150 more than the RX385512H. You'll have to decide if its worth the extra money.

Best of luck & Happy holidays. 2008 is gunna be a great year i can feel it :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top