Oh Noez... BIOSHOCK Easier on Xbox 360?!

TenaciousAssassin

TenaciousAssassin

CAG Veteran
Voodoo Extreme is reporting a small nugget of info in IGN's most recent preview for Bioshock- The PC version. Ken Levine, the creative director of Irrational said that the PC version is actually harder than the 360's with more aggressive A.I. and no aiming assist. All I can say is they better include a harder difficulty mode on the 360 version. Any thoughts?

Read it here: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/798/798758p1.html
 
I like easy games - I play to be entertained. If I want a challenge I go down and lift weights.

It's the reason I won't play DMC or Ninja Gaiden - who needs that frustration?
 
[quote name='TenaciousAssassin']Voodoo Extreme is reporting a small nugget of info in IGN's most recent preview for Bioshock- The PC version. Ken Levine, the creative director of Irrational said that the PC version is actually harder than the 360's with more aggressive A.I. and no aiming assist. All I can say is they better include a harder difficulty mode on the 360 version. Any thoughts?

Read it here: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/798/798758p1.html[/QUOTE]

All console FPS's have aiming assist, IIRC.

More aggressive AI is probably due to more to work with.

Not a surprise, though.
 
Yeah, I guess I actually consider this good news. I don't play a lot of FPS's, but I definitely plan to play this one. If the word was that it was going to be super difficult, that would probably be enough to keep me away from it. I like a challenge with games, but when a game just repeatedly kicks my ass, I don't consider that fun.

I can understand the real hardcore FPS fans wanting a harder difficulty mode, though. Hopefully it's adjustable and both types of gamers can get what they want from it.
 
Aiming assist is the only thing that makes FPS' playable on a controller. I dont think ive ever seen a console fps that didnt have it. Mouse aiming is a thousand times easier and more intuitive than right stick aiming.
 
[quote name='camoor']I like easy games - I play to be entertained.[/quote]

Yeah, but for me it doesn't have to be easy but as long as it's fun. I have a friend that been trying to get all the acheivements for FM2. I don't give a flying fuck about the acheivements.
 
The difficulty and a short gameplay time are the only possible things that could keep BioShock from being a Game of the Year candidate. And i'm willing to bet it's a pretty long SP game, since there is zero multiplayer to speak of. But like a couple others said, I don't mind easier games, as long as the A.I. isn't just ridiculously stupid. If you get a bunch of ammo and checkpoints, and that's the reason it's easy, then that's fine with me.
 
I don't care if it's easier in the 360, since my pc won't run the game, I am not planning on shelling 600$ plus on a new mobo and graphics card, so ......I will get in the 360!
 
By "more difficult on PC" do they mean the part where you have to update your drivers to coincide with the latest updates for your sound card's bios management hardware? And how if you don't have the latest $300 video card it will either chug or look worse than the 360 version? I've always found PC versions of games to be more difficult, in that way. (then again, I don't play PC games for that very reason which explains why I know and want to know nothing about configuring my computer for them)

Not news, still buying.
 
[quote name='camoor']I like easy games - I play to be entertained. If I want a challenge I go down and lift weights.

It's the reason I won't play DMC or Ninja Gaiden - who needs that frustration?[/QUOTE]
Whenever people say they don't like hard games and then mention Ninja Gaiden, I am infinitely confused. Ninja Gaiden really wasn't that hard at all. I beat several bosses the first time through, and there were plenty of checkpoints so when I DID have to restart, it wasn't a problem.

Ninja Gaiden's difficulty - not to hard, not to easy - was probably one of the reasons I was able to enjoy it so much (and ended up playing through six times on various difficulty settings).

On other games, I have to ramp up the difficulty and who knows where the sweet-spot between frustration and intense fighting is? (example: Call of Duty 3, on Normal it's a cakewalk, on Hardened a few stray bullets and you have to restart twenty minutes back)



On this thread: what do they mean, "more aggresive AI"? You mean they attack more relentlessly? Or are they better at what they do? As for the auto-aim: well, almost every shooter ported to the consoles has a bit of auto-aim. Hopefully it's not enough to detract from the experience, and enough that it's not riddiculous to even play.
 
Well, I hardly think this'll be Prey: Submerged along the lines of difficulty pandering to the 'special', but it's just indicative of how companies (mostly rightly) perceive as the difference between your average PC gamer and the 'Konsole Krowd'. They know that this game, unlike another impending 360 FPS, is going to need good word of mouth for Stevie Stoner and Wally Wal-Mart to buy it, and A.I. and overall difficulty bumped up to buzzkill levels ain't gonna generate that. It's unfortunate, but not at all surprising.

And I almost--ALMOST--feel sorry for anyone who has a dismissive attitude towards Ninja Gaiden and the Devil May Cry games. On the whole, they're really not that 'impossible' if you give them an honest effort. If they were really that broken in terms of extreme difficulty, they wouldn't be as revered as they are.

And last I checked, be it Lumines or Geometry Wars or, well, anything outside of Animal Crossing (or two-thirds of what Seanbaby 'reviews'), really, "challenge" and conflict are inherent to the gaming experience. People who currently just want adversaries to lay down for them and to basically go on pseudo-"God Mode" rampages because they 'just don't have the time anymore' don't really want their wish to become a game design rule, trust me.
 
I just hope Bioshock has at least three or four difficulty settings... and I don't mean putting industructable body-armor all over the perfect-shot enemies and one-bullet deaths for you. I mean actual difficutly settings that let me play the way I like.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']Whenever people say they don't like hard games and then mention Ninja Gaiden, I am infinitely confused. Ninja Gaiden really wasn't that hard at all. I beat several bosses the first time through, and there were plenty of checkpoints so when I DID have to restart, it wasn't a problem.

Ninja Gaiden's difficulty - not to hard, not to easy - was probably one of the reasons I was able to enjoy it so much (and ended up playing through six times on various difficulty settings).

On other games, I have to ramp up the difficulty and who knows where the sweet-spot between frustration and intense fighting is? (example: Call of Duty 3, on Normal it's a cakewalk, on Hardened a few stray bullets and you have to restart twenty minutes back)



On this thread: what do they mean, "more aggresive AI"? You mean they attack more relentlessly? Or are they better at what they do? As for the auto-aim: well, almost every shooter ported to the consoles has a bit of auto-aim. Hopefully it's not enough to detract from the experience, and enough that it's not riddiculous to even play.[/QUOTE]

I was about to agree completely with Camoor, but then your post seemed more reasonable to respond to. I can say that I stay away from Gaiden because of its reputation as "one of the hardest games ever". I've read it so many times from so many sources I feel safe assuming it to be true. Considering that there are other games that are not classified as "hargest game ever" and still frustrate me to no end, why even bother with one that has been acknowledged over and over as more frustrating than even those? You're probably one of the first people I have ever heard say it wasn't that difficult.

Somewhat on-topic, I understand why people like difficulty as well. Once you get really good at a game you want an equivalent challenge. My solution to this would be to release a game like Ninja Gaiden with a reasonable amount of difficulty and let the general population go through the learning curve. Follow it with a sequel that is more difficult WITHOUT CHANGING THE CONTROLS/PHYSICS of the game and as the series moves forward, so does the challenge (and AI, etc).

I realize this already happens as a natural evolution of games, but a lot of times when sequels come out there are dozens of "improvements" in the play controls - which pulls the rug right out from under anyone who has invested a significant amount of time into mastering the previous game (See Smash Brothers, Mario Kart franchise, Street Fighter franchise, Mortal Kombat, etc). If you're a master at the last installmenet, you should be able to step in as a master at the new installment - at least if someone were going to try my theory out. While Mario Kart DD was a GREAT game, I would have been much happier if they had dramatically updated the graphics from MK 64, added new tracks, added new competitors, even thrown in the much-more-frustrating AI; basically added everything they did, but left the controls that I spent years mastering the same. I suck at FPS but I could see this being the case with Halo, etc already.
 
[quote name='Scorch']don't care, getting it anyway[/QUOTE]

Same her; the easier difficulty might prove to be a good thing, as many a good game have been ruined by a frustrating difficulty level.

As for Ninja Gaiden, if you liked the difficulty that's good for you, but the fact remains that it's one of the most frustrating experiences on any system to date. I don't mind a challenge, when it's legit, but most of the time the bump in difficulty comes from very cheap gameplay.

Regardless, every game should have different levels of difficulty. Even notoriously hard games have an easy mode.
 
[quote name='camoor']I like easy games - I play to be entertained. If I want a challenge I go down and lift weights.

It's the reason I won't play DMC or Ninja Gaiden - who needs that frustration?[/QUOTE]

Gawd! I know what your talking about. I remember playing Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox and getting so frustrated. I finished the game, but there were times I just wanted to break that game disk.
 
[quote name='chosen1s']Somewhat on-topic, I understand why people like difficulty as well. Once you get really good at a game you want an equivalent challenge. My solution to this would be to release a game like Ninja Gaiden with a reasonable amount of difficulty and let the general population go through the learning curve. Follow it with a sequel that is more difficult WITHOUT CHANGING THE CONTROLS/PHYSICS of the game and as the series moves forward, so does the challenge (and AI, etc).[/QUOTE]
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on the basis that that is a TERRIBLE idea.

One of Ninja Gaiden's problems was probably the learning curve. The first two bosses (nunchuck dude and horses) are perhaps the hardest in the game, while the last few are pretty damn easy (especially once you get to them).

Improving the learning curve would benefit the game, but a learning curve shouldn't be across titles, it should be across the length of the game.

Also, though I think AI should improve as a series progresses, I don't think they have to get progressively harder. If someone is new to games, they play on the beginner difficulty, if you've played the series before, or if you've played games in the genre, then you can start on a higher difficulty.
 
I guess I'm in the minority that I like my games bone crushingly hard... majority of games I've played lately I've never even seen the game over screen unless I got sloppy and just stopped paying attention. I like a hard game because when you beat it, at least me, you get a sense of accomplishment. I don't really feel anything when I mow through a game without a lot of challenge.

I live for all the optional bosses in RPG's these days since most RPG's are incredibly too easy, and the optional stuff is where I get any sort of challenge, and I usually turn all of my FPS's onto the hardest difficulty.
 
Ughhhh.

Add a harder difficulty mode then, for the 360 version. Too many easy a hell, BORING because of it, games nowadays.

I understand where the casuals are coming from with want of easier difficulty, but give them an easy mode then. The aiming assist should also be a toggle like it is in a lot of games on console nowadays.
 
I'd probably get the PC version if I had a Windows based computer but as it is, I'm sure it'll still be pretty fun for 360. I mean, Call of Duty 2 wasn't too hard but that was the most 18ish hours I've had in a videogame in recent memory (probably since my initial Gears of War playthrough).
 
Well I expected the aim assistance. Easier AI? That might be takjing a bit far. Either way I was still planning on getting the PC version.
 
Meh, I don't care, I'll get the 360 version regardless. As someone who doesn't have hours and hours to commit to just games, harder game difficulty is overrated. I have other barometers that make gaming fun for me, and beating something challenging is just one facet, certainly not the main reason I play games...
 
While I REALLY enjoyed Call of Duty 2 on Veteran, Goldeneye on 00 agent, halo on Legendary, etc. What turned me off to Ninja Gaiden was a level past the bone dragon that had some absurd platforming that was NOT helped by the camera. I was done after that and had zero patience for the game.

Cannot wait for bioshock.
 
I don't really mind actually. All games should have an easy mode, hard mode etc. A good example of this is the Guitar Hero games which has various difficulties that everyone can enjoy.
 
Wow, with the way people are talking here, you'd think they changed the name to Fisher Price's BioShock: My First Underwater City.

They said it'd be easier than the PC version, not that it would be the easiest game of the year. I'm sure it's all in the control differences, as the mouse/keyboard lets you move and react much quicker than the controller.

Don't panic.
 
The question is: what do they mean "more agressive AI"?

Does the AI just stand around in the 360 version? Does the more aggresive AI positively impact the PC version? "More aggresive AI" is not necessarily good, the right amount of aggresion is what you're aiming for, regardless of difficulty (which can be eased by weakening the "more agressive" enemies or strengthening the player).
 
[quote name='Aleryn']

I understand where the casuals are coming from with want of easier difficulty, but give them an easy mode then. [/quote]What do the "casuals" have to do with this? REAL casual gamers aren't going to give BioShock the time of day, they'll be too busy waiting for GTA and Halo.
 
I think the point with the AI was that they will often maniacally charge after you, flank you, surround you, etc. These all being things more difficult to deal with on a slower reacting analog stick than the instant aiming of a mouse. We probably will see them do these things not all at once, and not as often. This whole thing is being blown out of proportion, I wish they hadn't said anything.
 
[quote name='chosen1s']I was about to agree completely with Camoor, but then your post seemed more reasonable to respond to. I can say that I stay away from Gaiden because of its reputation as "one of the hardest games ever". I've read it so many times from so many sources I feel safe assuming it to be true. Considering that there are other games that are not classified as "hargest game ever" and still frustrate me to no end, why even bother with one that has been acknowledged over and over as more frustrating than even those? You're probably one of the first people I have ever heard say it wasn't that difficult.

Somewhat on-topic, I understand why people like difficulty as well. Once you get really good at a game you want an equivalent challenge. My solution to this would be to release a game like Ninja Gaiden with a reasonable amount of difficulty and let the general population go through the learning curve. Follow it with a sequel that is more difficult WITHOUT CHANGING THE CONTROLS/PHYSICS of the game and as the series moves forward, so does the challenge (and AI, etc).

I realize this already happens as a natural evolution of games, but a lot of times when sequels come out there are dozens of "improvements" in the play controls - which pulls the rug right out from under anyone who has invested a significant amount of time into mastering the previous game (See Smash Brothers, Mario Kart franchise, Street Fighter franchise, Mortal Kombat, etc). If you're a master at the last installmenet, you should be able to step in as a master at the new installment - at least if someone were going to try my theory out. While Mario Kart DD was a GREAT game, I would have been much happier if they had dramatically updated the graphics from MK 64, added new tracks, added new competitors, even thrown in the much-more-frustrating AI; basically added everything they did, but left the controls that I spent years mastering the same. I suck at FPS but I could see this being the case with Halo, etc already.[/QUOTE]


the whole thing with Ninja Gaiden (and most fighting/puzzle games, as well games like Halo and Counterstrike) is that it actually takes an active learning process to get good at the game. most games don't have this, but that's what I personally look for when it comes to having fun with a title. I don't mean to sound "more hardcore than thou" but if you're getting constantly frustrated by a game that is very playable and beatable, it's because you're just mindlessly button mashing or stuck at one skill level and not looking for ways to improve, or just expecting the AI to fall down and die when you look at it. (by "you", I mean people in general, not you in specific chosen :) )


also, why would they release a game with only an easy option and wait to add more difficulty options in a sequel? that would come off as both completely lazy and would make the game about as appealing as a disney title. and if you were a master at one game, what incentive would you have to play the sequel if your skills will allow you to plow through it? being able to beat the game without thinking is the very definition of boredom. those ideas make no sense to me (or I misunderstood you.) I think you should have some grasp of the controls and style, but everything else should be reworked to make it a new experience.


on topic: still getting the 360 version.
 
[quote name='hxhawkeye']Wow, with the way people are talking here, you'd think they changed the name to Fisher Price's BioShock: My First Underwater City.

[/QUOTE]

I smell an expansion pack...
 
[quote name='ChaoticClimax']qft... when it's less than $30...[/quote]Have fun waiting until late 2008. All those people who said the same thing about Oblivion are still waiting to play it.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case with all cross-platform (console/PC) FPS titles?
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']What do the "casuals" have to do with this? REAL casual gamers aren't going to give BioShock the time of day, they'll be too busy waiting for GTA and Halo.[/QUOTE]

And don't forget Madden ;)
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']And don't forget Madden ;)[/quote]Well, obviously. I hear this years Madden, according to IGN, is "truly next gen". Hey, it only took EA 3 years!
 
[quote name='ChaoticClimax']qft... when it's less than $30...[/QUOTE]
*thinks how ironic it is that BioShock will probably be about $30 on the PC the day it comes out*
 
[quote name='Apossum']the whole thing with Ninja Gaiden (and most fighting/puzzle games, as well games like Halo and Counterstrike) is that it actually takes an active learning process to get good at the game. most games don't have this, but that's what I personally look for when it comes to having fun with a title. I don't mean to sound "more hardcore than thou" but if you're getting constantly frustrated by a game that is very playable and beatable, it's because you're just mindlessly button mashing or stuck at one skill level and not looking for ways to improve, or just expecting the AI to fall down and die when you look at it. (by "you", I mean people in general, not you in specific chosen :) )[/QUOTE]Well said, regarding the Ninja Gaiden example. When I first jumped into that game, I got my ass kicked. It started out "hard," and then when I reached the first boss I was getting utterly destroyed. During the course of that first frustrating boss battle, I realized that I simply could not approach this the same way I would approach other games (or at least, the games I had been playing lately). I had to look for openings. I had to hit 'n run. I had to USE that block button. Typically you never have to be that alert for the first boss in a game - but this, I learned, was no typical game.

Only after I taught myself how to play Ninja Gaiden did I manage to make some progress. The game went form "unfair" to "challenging" and I had a great time!

Anyways, I agree that the Bioshock stuff is probably being blown out of proportion. It's probably just the standard PC-to-console compromises we're talking about here. Could mean anything from a "streamlined" control scheme to less enemies onscreen.
 
[quote name='BustaUppa']
Anyways, I agree that the Bioshock stuff is probably being blown out of proportion. It's probably just the standard PC-to-console compromises we're talking about here. Could mean anything from a "streamlined" control scheme to less enemies onscreen.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Also does anyone else realize that no one has actually gotten their hands on a final copy of the game? Thus discussing the difficulty of a game nobody has played yet seems moot no?
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']Indeed. Also does anyone else realize that no one has actually gotten their hands on a final copy of the game? Thus discussing the difficulty of a game nobody has played yet seems moot no?[/QUOTE]

Nine times out of ten; the topics we argue about is moot.
 
The game seemed like it was pretty difficult from the promo (special abilities that must be strategically used, randomly appearing enemies, etc) that's why I was kinda leery even with the pretty eye candy and cool plot.

I like to immerse myself in a game, I don't want to miss alot of cool stuff happening onscreen because I'm trying to remember the 12 button sequence for "left punch"
 
More RPG-ish elements, M&K controls, higher resolutions then the console counterpart, harder and the modding community. Couple this with the fact I'm buiding a PC this summer I know which version I'm getting even though I have a 360.
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']Nine times out of ten; the topics we argue about is moot.[/quote]

Couldn't disagree more

normal_Internet-SeriousBusiness.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top