Original Trilogy Special Effects

kakomu

kakomu

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Hi all,

I've been trying to figure out how special effects were made in many films prior to the use of computers. So, I've been looking around quite dilligently trying to find out how the scenes inside the deathstar were made. Does anyone have any links, info or suggestions for books + videos that I could looking into?
 
You didn't learn about that in eighth grade? My tech teacher said that they simply waved a magnet in front of an intercom system to get the lightsaber effects. Those seemed to be the only effects he knew. Or maybe that's the only thing I bothered to remember from his boring ass speeches.
 
Another good one to look into would be the Wizard of Oz, an icon, good effects, and old. Ghostbusters was also one of the last big special effects movies which had all optical effects. John Carpenter's The Thing was also done just prior to the age of computer special effects, the creature effects were all done with animatronics and prosthetic appliances. For all of these the DVDs would be a good source of info too.

Oh, check out the original King Kong Dvd, watch the special features and listen to the commentary track, they detail all the tricks they used to bring that film to life, really amazing, groundbreaking techniques for the time period.
 
[quote name='kakomu']Hi all,

I've been trying to figure out how special effects were made in many films prior to the use of computers. So, I've been looking around quite dilligently trying to find out how the scenes inside the deathstar were made. Does anyone have any links, info or suggestions for books + videos that I could looking into?[/QUOTE]

Lots of fireworks?

This makes me wonder as well. I have searched google and found nothing. Anyone know ?
 
[quote name='Graystone']Lots of fireworks?

This makes me wonder as well. I have searched google and found nothing. Anyone know ?[/QUOTE]
Most of the interiors of the Death Star were sets, large shots of complex structures inside were probably done with blue screen and matte paintings of the complex section being put in later to fill in those sections. The trench of the death star was a bigature which they rigged a camera to skim along through. Ships were models filmed on blue screens and they simulated their movements by either sending them down on strings or moving the camera with the ship remaining stationary. When ships blew up they really would blow up (at least in the first movie) they would rig charges to the models of the ships and blow them. The wide shots of the AT-AT walkers moving in Empire Strikes Back were stop motion. The Rancor monster in Return of the Jedi was a minature puppet.

The thing which still blows my mind is the space battle in Return of the Jedi, to think they had to shoot each of those ships models indivdually and edit them all together.
 
borrow someone's original trilogy bonus disk to get these documentaries covering sets, sounds, and effects:

Bonus disc: all-new bonus features, including the most comprehensive feature-length documentary ever produced on the Star Wars saga, and never-before-seen footage from the making of all three films
"Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy"
Featurettes: The Legendary Creatures of Star Wars, The Birth of the Lightsaber, The Legacy of Star Wars
 
[quote name='guardian_owl']The thing which still blows my mind is the space battle in Return of the Jedi, to think they had to shoot each of those ships models indivdually and edit them all together.[/QUOTE]
A lot of the space models are repeats. They also employed the computer controlled gadtetry they started in the original star wars that allowed multiple passes of a single scene to be played EXACTLY the same each time (ILM apparently obssessed over getting this computer control done during the original star wars and got extremely behind. They ended up not using it in some scenes they wanted to, like many death star pass scenes).

My guess, while watching the battle inside the death star in Jedi (what I was asking about before) was that it was a combination of miniatures and mattes (not counting the ships, but those are just models by a blue screen). However, I'm wondering if they animated the mattes. Some look like they could have been drawn to account for a camera pan. However, others have the camera moving into the picture. Others, I'm not so sure about.

[quote name='bmulligan']borrow someone's original trilogy bonus disk to get these documentaries covering sets, sounds, and effects:

Bonus disc: all-new bonus features, including the most comprehensive feature-length documentary ever produced on the Star Wars saga, and never-before-seen footage from the making of all three films
"Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy"
Featurettes: The Legendary Creatures of Star Wars, The Birth of the Lightsaber, The Legacy of Star Wars[/QUOTE]
I can't remember which of those I watched, but it didn't have a whole lot of technical data on many of the effects.
 
I prefer the old school special effects to the new CG. No matter how "real" they make the CG look It still comes across as fake for me.
 
[quote name='camoor']In Star Trek II (KAHHHHHHHN) they reuse the main space station 3 times - right-side up, upside-down, and sideways.[/QUOTE]
The space station is from the first movie, only flipped.
 
In my hatred of the special edition cuts of the OT I purchased user created DVDs of the original cut of the original trilogy derived from the laser disc video and audio transfers. Included with this was another disc with the commentaries from the laser disc. The following info was pulled from that commentary and other mini-documentaries on the disc:

Far Away wide shot of Death star is a 3 foot diameter, sphere model. Most of the mid range shots of the death star (close enough that not the entire space station is visible/when can see lights on the side of the station) were paintings on plexiglass. When very close (flying low over the surface) most of those were models)

close shots of falcon being pulled toward death star by tractor beam done by painting a half-dome of plexiglass, scrapping off little bits for windows and putting lights behind it to shine through the places where there is no paint. Next shot with two officers looking out at the side of the death star through a window looks like a matte painting. Next shot looks like a combination of actors in storm troopers in front of a blue scren, miniature rotating turret, matte painting, and small model of the falcon.

Explosions of the ships, when ships visibly break apart they actually blew up models. But most of them were done by when shooting the elements of the ship mark with tape at what point to explode, then later they shot stock explosions against a blue screen (later it was done against a black screen since the blue washed out the vibrancy of the explosions) then superimposed the explosion over the top of the model later.

For POV(first person point of view) shots of ships attacking surface of death star they cabled a high speed camera (about 200 frames per second) across the surface of a death star model and set off pyro charges on the model. Others just had more stock shots of explosions super imposed over footage of the model.

Starfields done by painting plexiglass completely black with MANY pin pricks in it with lights behind it to represent stars.

Ship POV Shot of camera entering the trench done on a motion controled camera at 1 frame per second on a large trench model.

Final shot of the Death Star blowing up was done by shooting a large stock explosion from below against a black background to simulate a zero gravity explosion as the sparks and such would fall toward the camera. This explosion was then superimposed over the top of the model.

Exhaust port on death star was a model, about 4 feet across.

Return of the Jedi Commentary:
Approach of Vaders ship to the death Star hanger bay, again, matte paintings on glass, but this time shot with models close to the camera in front of the painting in order to give some depth of field.

---------------------------------------------- end facts, onto speculation:
Shots on the inside of the death star where ships are attacking look like a combination of matte paintings in distance and models up close for parts of the reactor thing and the commentary mentions huge stock explosions super imposed over the scene.

Scene of Luke flighing the shuttle away from the flaming deathstar look like more plexiglass matte paintings with large holes cut out and flashing orange lights behind the glass, with smaller flames and stock explosions super imposed over the top. It looks like this same technique is used on the wide shot of the death star blinking just before it explodes with the falcon in the foreground.
 
In the third movie of the trilogy the giant boulder was done as such:
The boulder was on this contraption like an arm; it was free-spinning and the arm was hidden. The boulder tumbled down the chute, then it had to be taken back if we wanted to do another take. But we couldn't do it again very quickly because we had to put in the stalactites that got broken off as it rolled.
 
The effects for any of the space stuff are done with models, but they're not really pre-computer. Industrial Light and Magic pioneered computer-timed cameras for those shots. So, in effect, the effects themselves aren't computer made, but they certainly benefit from them.

Take it from me, I crashed into the Death Star!
 
[quote name='Jek Porkins']The effects for any of the space stuff are done with models, but they're not really pre-computer. Industrial Light and Magic pioneered computer-timed cameras for those shots. So, in effect, the effects themselves aren't computer made, but they certainly benefit from them.

Take it from me, I crashed into the Death Star![/QUOTE]
Ya, think the OP means pre-CGI. But if the OP really does mean pre-computers the King Kong dvd really does have some fascinating stuff...
 
On a Star Wars related tangent, when Darth Vader tells Luke he is his father in Empire Strikes Back, does it sound like it to anyone else that Luke is saying "Noooooose, Noooooose" instead of "Noooo, Noooo"?
 
[quote name='guardian_owl']On a Star Wars related tangent, when Darth Vader tells Luke he is his father in Empire Strikes Back, does it sound like it to anyone else that Luke is saying "Noooooose, Noooooose" instead of "Noooo, Noooo"?[/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm making this up in my mind, but at that scene, isnt it true that Mark Hammil didnt know why Luke was yelling that? They added Jones' vo line about being Luke's father much later. And at first thats not even what Darth Vader was going to say.

On an unrelated note I love watching the behind the scenes thing when they shoot a scene without Jones' vo over it. Hearing that bodybuilder guy do his own lines for Vader is disturbing. Sure he's huge but his voice is so high pitched and not very menacing at all.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']Maybe I'm making this up in my mind, but at that scene, isnt it true that Mark Hammil didnt know why Luke was yelling that? They added Jones' vo line about being Luke's father much later. And at first thats not even what Darth Vader was going to say.

On an unrelated note I love watching the behind the scenes thing when they shoot a scene without Jones' vo over it. Hearing that bodybuilder guy do his own lines for Vader is disturbing. Sure he's huge but his voice is so high pitched and not very menacing at all.[/QUOTE]
At the time, only Lucas and Hamill knew. According to one of the documentaries (can't remember which I watched), Lucas told Hamill in private how he was supposed to act the line and what was supposed to be said. David Prowse's line was "I killed your father". This was to stave off leaks about the story by the crew (if they didn't know what Darth's real line would be in the movie, and it wasn't in the script, they couldn't leak crucial points). Personally, I think it's just paranoia :lol:
 
[quote name='Maklershed']Maybe I'm making this up in my mind, but at that scene, isnt it true that Mark Hammil didnt know why Luke was yelling that? They added Jones' vo line about being Luke's father much later. And at first thats not even what Darth Vader was going to say.

On an unrelated note I love watching the behind the scenes thing when they shoot a scene without Jones' vo over it. Hearing that bodybuilder guy do his own lines for Vader is disturbing. Sure he's huge but his voice is so high pitched and not very menacing at all.[/QUOTE]


Actually, that whole scene disturbes me. Everytime they cut to Vader, his helmet shakes from side to side because of the wind in the shot. It looks as though it might blow off at any second. I can't not notice it every time I watch that scene.
 
[quote name='guardian_owl']On a Star Wars related tangent, when Darth Vader tells Luke he is his father in Empire Strikes Back, does it sound like it to anyone else that Luke is saying "Noooooose, Noooooose" instead of "Noooo, Noooo"?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and then Vader says, "Oh, snap!" and carves "pwned" into the floor.
 
[quote name='kakomu']At the time, only Lucas and Hamill knew. According to one of the documentaries (can't remember which I watched), Lucas told Hamill in private how he was supposed to act the line and what was supposed to be said. David Prowse's line was "I killed your father". This was to stave off leaks about the story by the crew (if they didn't know what Darth's real line would be in the movie, and it wasn't in the script, they couldn't leak crucial points). Personally, I think it's just paranoia :lol:[/QUOTE]

Actually it was the director who told Hamill what the real dialog was.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']I prefer the old school special effects to the new CG. No matter how "real" they make the CG look It still comes across as fake for me.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree.
 
one of my post production instructors told us that adobe photoshop was originally developed for star wars, but i haven't confirmed it. when you consider the level of visual effects one can accomplish with photoshop, after effects, and some effort and patience, it wouldn't surprise me. two of the short films i just worked on had pretty convincing composite shots.

also, sound effects and sound design really do a lot to improve the believability of visual effects. just watch any movie fight without sound and you'll see how crappy it actually looks. good sound allows for suspension of disbelief, making it easy for filmmakers to sell all kinds of visual tricks. star wars was obviously no exception.
 
[quote name='Jek Porkins']The effects for any of the space stuff are done with models, but they're not really pre-computer. Industrial Light and Magic pioneered computer-timed cameras for those shots. So, in effect, the effects themselves aren't computer made, but they certainly benefit from them.

Take it from me, I crashed into the Death Star![/QUOTE]

I thought I told you to stay on target.

STAY ON TARGET!
 
[quote name='Scrubking']I prefer the old school special effects to the new CG. No matter how "real" they make the CG look It still comes across as fake for me.[/QUOTE]

I can only watch a modern movie once without starting to notice the CG. After the first view, my brain kicks in and the effects look really fake.

I'll take the puppets in Labryinth over anything CG.
 
[quote name='Stoneage']Yeah, and then Vader says, "Oh, snap!" and carves "pwned" into the floor.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

He could do his Episode III line early- Dropping to his knees and wailing 'OWWWWWWNED!'
 
vader-nooooo.jpg
 
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