Paypal screwed me! UPDATE MARCH.11 2008, A NEW COLLECTION AGENCY IS CALLING!

Paypal isn't that aggressive. I got hit with a similar situation when i sold an imac a while back. I basically said screw that shit... opened a new acct with paypal connected to a diff bank acct and 4 years later not a peep.

F0ck ebay and f0ck paypal
 
[quote name='blazerock']Paypal isn't that aggressive. I got hit with a similar situation when i sold an imac a while back. I basically said screw that shit... opened a new acct with paypal connected to a diff bank acct and 4 years later not a peep.

F0ck ebay and f0ck paypal[/quote]

amen to that
 
[quote name='io']Was there some reason you weren't covered by PayPal seller protection? Unlike in Magiic's case, if you WON the dispute you should have been covered assuming DC showed delivery (and it seems the buyers didn't dispute delivery anyway). My point is PayPal is supposed to cover you in the case of chargebacks IF it was sent to a confirmed address with signature confirmation and all that.

I had a much smaller item that was allegedly bought with a stolen account or something. I never did hear the details but as soon as I forwarded DC information (which, of course, they already had as I used PayPal shipping :roll:) they reversed the reversal and I never heard about it again. Key point was that the address I sent to was "confirmed" at the time I sent it (it went unconfirmed shortly afterwards which worried me a bit).

PayPal does, indeed, suck, but there's no way around it if you want to sell on eBay. But I fully understand you wanting to get out of that mess as well Magiic (though they are really one and the same, eBay is a whole 'nother mess).[/QUOTE]

He won the Paypal dispute, but the guy just charged back through his credit card company, at which point Paypal tries to get the money back from you.

Paypal protection shit dosen't cover you against credit card chargebacks, just Paypal chargebacks. The system is VERY broken, and I REALLY hope someone nails Paypal to the wall for this shit.
 
The only way to stop this is to stop using Paypal. I've heard nothing but horror stories. I'd rather be able to deal directly with the seller. If they screw me, I just call the local authorities and let them deal with it.

EDIT -- I have several "buddies" in the Bay Area. If you need any "assistance", let me know.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']He won the Paypal dispute, but the guy just charged back through his credit card company, at which point Paypal tries to get the money back from you.

Paypal protection shit dosen't cover you against credit card chargebacks, just Paypal chargebacks. The system is VERY broken, and I REALLY hope someone nails Paypal to the wall for this shit.[/QUOTE]

There is no difference between "Paypal chargeback" and "CC chargeback". Anyone eligibile for Paypal's SPP should be protected against chargebacks. If Paypal is still hounding you for the money even though you were eligible for the SPP, Paypal lied and stole from you.
 
[quote name='depascal22']The only way to stop this is to stop using Paypal. I've heard nothing but horror stories. I'd rather be able to deal directly with the seller. If they screw me, I just call the local authorities and let them deal with it.

EDIT -- I have several "buddies" in the Bay Area. If you need any "assistance", let me know.[/QUOTE]

You know, the only reason you hear the "horrow stories" is because when people are screwed over they scream about it long and loudly (I'm not passing judgement either way). What you don't hear about is the millions of paypal transactions that go off without a hitch.
 
Ya up until this point I have had zero problems with paypal. I will still use paypal for CAG stuff because it's the easiest way for me to recieve money and buy stuff online. I will not be selling on ebay anymore though.
 
I thought I was covered by their plan and according to the paypal website under the chargeback faq, I am.

Here is a copy and paste from the website:

If a seller amicably resolves a PayPal dispute or wins a claim, is the seller covered against chargebacks?

Yes, if a seller amicably resolves a dispute through PayPal Dispute Resolution or wins a claim, the seller is protected against any chargeback the buyer's credit card company later files for that transaction.
To be covered, however, the seller must honor agreements made with the buyer during the dispute resolution process. And, if the chargeback comes in before the dispute or claim is resolved, the seller will not be covered.



The key sentence for me is the 'seller is protected against any chargeback the buyer's CC company later files for that transaction.'


I have pointed this sentence out to no less than 5 resolution specialists from paypal and noone can explain this to me.

The response has been that the seller protection policy doesn't cover chargebacks over merchandise not as described.

I then counter with, seller is protected against any chargeback. There are no stipulations for the word any. Any chargeback pretty much means any, not some or most.

I'm trying to figure out how to litigate this issue because I am not out the money currently, it is a potential loss.

Keep me informed of your situation also.

Thanks,
RK
 
[quote name='iflabs']There is no difference between "Paypal chargeback" and "CC chargeback". Anyone eligibile for Paypal's SPP should be protected against chargebacks. If Paypal is still hounding you for the money even though you were eligible for the SPP, Paypal lied and stole from you.[/QUOTE]

Should be, but aren't.

There's a story right there on the second to last page about how someone won the Paypal dispute, the buyer did a chargeback through his credit card company, and Paypal goes after the seller for the money.

I've heard of it happening often.

What was just posted up above, hell, you could open a credit card chargeback without ever doing paypal's dispute and you're *not* covered. There is PLENTY of loophole's to get around Paypal.
 
Let me say that I am a powerseller on Ebay and have used paypal for years. I know how to sell and have done so successfully using paypal.

The problem is paypal is a very large financial institution but states that they are not and so far have not had to be tied to the same laws. For instance, all banks are required to earn money with any money deposited with them. If money is held for any reason, it must earn interest.

Paypal has consistently and repeatedly, without oversight, continued to freeze customer's funds in the name of fraud prevention. These funds total into the millions. These funds can be held up to 6 months and trust me, it is.
The catch is, paypal collects all the interest from this money.
Conveniently, the customer agreed to allow this when they sign up for an account.
This is just one example of the flogging that paypal is giving it's customers.

I have learned alot after my ordeal and will never use paypal again.
It is ok if you use it to buy something, just pay with credit card but never, never sell with it unless you can afford to lose the item or money.

The end,
RK
 
[quote name='rk69rn']Let me say that I am a powerseller on Ebay and have used paypal for years. I know how to sell and have done so successfully using paypal.

The problem is paypal is a very large financial institution but states that they are not and so far have not had to be tied to the same laws. For instance, all banks are required to earn money with any money deposited with them. If money is held for any reason, it must earn interest.

Paypal has consistently and repeatedly, without oversight, continued to freeze customer's funds in the name of fraud prevention. These funds total into the millions. These funds can be held up to 6 months and trust me, it is.
The catch is, paypal collects all the interest from this money.
Conveniently, the customer agreed to allow this when they sign up for an account.
This is just one example of the flogging that paypal is giving it's customers.

I have learned alot after my ordeal and will never use paypal again.
It is ok if you use it to buy something, just pay with credit card but never, never sell with it unless you can afford to lose the item or money.

The end,
RK[/QUOTE]


As a fellow powerseller/paypal user, I fully agree with the above. I don't know who ebay/paypal are blowing on capital hill, but it just boggles my mind that an institution that acts like a bank and handles millions (billions?) of dollars nationwide can avoid any type of federal regulation.

Paypal is without a doubt the WORST company (in terms of customer service and policy) that I deal with on a regular basis. Unfortunately, they are a "necessary evil" if you do any type of business on ebay (who, SURPRISE, just happens to own paypal).

For those of you who have never had any problems with paypal, consider yourselves EXTREMELY lucky. I have to constantly make sure that my paypal balance (and bank account tied to it) are at zero, just to protect myself from potential scammers. Needless to say, I go out of my way to try and avoid using ebay/paypal if at all possible.
 
I just read every single page of this thread, very interesting. Good luck and hopefully this is the end of it.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']He won the Paypal dispute, but the guy just charged back through his credit card company, at which point Paypal tries to get the money back from you.

Paypal protection shit dosen't cover you against credit card chargebacks, just Paypal chargebacks. The system is VERY broken, and I REALLY hope someone nails Paypal to the wall for this shit.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm... I thought they did. Well, in my case it was my understanding that the guy reported the card number stolen, and yet I was covered. Anyway, maybe it was just because it was only for $20 :lol:.

Anyway, good luck magiic, I hope you win out. It pisses me off knowing the guy got his money back AND a PS3 though. PayPal sucks slightly less than he does.
 
UPDATE!

Called Paypal with my attorney present on speaker phone, spoke to resolution specialist with normal run around. My attorney requested a supervisor( previously I was told that they were the supervisor and it was the last stop), after 20 minutes more of hold time, I got someone with the ability to do something and she credited my account without any problems.

I'll let you know when it actually takes place, she stated 2-4 days.
 
Maybe it's worth trying to call PayPal with an attorney? If you don't have one, you could always have a friend act like one over the phone.
 
[quote name='yukine']Maybe it's worth trying to call PayPal with an attorney? If you don't have one, you could always have a friend act like one over the phone.[/quote]

Well, that would be fraud, so I wouldn't recommend it.

Get a lawyer if you can and make those suckers pay. I'd also have your lawyer contact the buyer and put the heat on. File a small claims lawsuit, get on Judge Judy, whatever, just hound that asshole to death.

TBW

PS On second thought, that might be harassment, but I'd still try it.
 
I dont have the money to hire a lawyer at 17 (well I guess I do, but should I really be putting my money towards a lawyer) and technically at seventeen I shouldnt even have a paypal account but thats a story for another day. Am I really going to see any gains by getting a lawyer to fight some guy on the otherside of the continent in another country really worth my time and money?
 
[quote name='magiic']I dont have the money to hire a lawyer at 17 (well I guess I do, but should I really be putting my money towards a lawyer) and technically at seventeen I shouldnt even have a paypal account but thats a story for another day. Am I really going to see any gains by getting a lawyer to fight some guy on the otherside of the continent in another country really worth my time and money?[/quote]

Some of the best advice I have ever gotten was that there are always some things in life you are just going to have to chalk up as a loss. If it were me I would consider this to be one of them and just take it as a lesson learned.
 
[quote name='magiic']I dont have the money to hire a lawyer at 17 (well I guess I do, but should I really be putting my money towards a lawyer) and technically at seventeen I shouldnt even have a paypal account but thats a story for another day. Am I really going to see any gains by getting a lawyer to fight some guy on the otherside of the continent in another country really worth my time and money?[/quote]

no, take a lesson out of this and move on. Sometimes the bad guys win.
 
This happened to me while selling off my yugioh collection. I had a -350 account and needed $50 in it to settle the dispute and close it. The way I settled it was making all the money back. So I sold like $500 of stuff on ebay for in like 2 weeks.
My suggestion when selling something $100+ is to hold off on buying anything with the money you made until the buyer is recieves and is happy.
 
@ above posters
Thats how I see it. There is no point in fighting this anymore. I worked at for like 5 months and got shit all out of it. No point in pouring more time or money into it.

@Dro
I get my money out of my account asap especially when I had close to $8000 in my account I was not leaving it in there so paypal could screw me out all of my hard earned because some buyer wanted to be a douche. Paypal can eat the $1025. I'm just going to use a new account. I'm also going to start selling on Amazon in the hopes it goes better than ebay.
 
Sorry to hear that magiic. But on a brighter note, your Hot Shots Golf Fore! from Goozex will be sent out tomorrow (hope its the same magiic)
 
[quote name='Caliburn']Here's an interesting news story:

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/11536665/detail.html :wave:[/quote]

That's pretty messed up.

As for the PS3 ordeal, just wow, another victim. I've been in a similar situation, except I was out an xbox 360 + $600. They didn't get the money back til' about one and 1/2 years later through collections >.>
I had a -$200.00 + balance and after about a year, my account was suspended (didn't care), but then I did get calls and letters from collections. I had one hell of a time with that, and I do believe my credit score suffered, b/c I tried applying for a credit card down the line and was denied :/

The lady at my bank told me to wait a year, then re-apply. Apparently your credit score increases w/out doing anything o_O

There's a lotta crafty people out there, I just list a couple things on Ebay and watch them closely. Due to all the scams, NPB's, and jackasses, I've pretty much stuck to selling within the US only and only sell outside the US when there's been no bites for at least 2 months and I'm desperate to get rid of it.

One thing I don't understand is, they give the buyer A LOT of power in claims, and the seller practically has no defense, even when providing all the necessary info and proving their case. The final decision is usually left up to the buyer who at that point will probably attack without mercy.
 
If you do sell things in the future, magiic, don't let the lure of a lofty profit override your learned intuition from this ordeal. I keep my eBay sales managable and usually under $75 to limit douchebag buyer financial abuse.
 
I think in future if ever did something this large scale again I'd make a paypal account specifically for it and get the money out ASAP and close the account as soon as I had the money. Hell there was a two week period during the dispute my account was unlocked. In hindsight I wish I had of closed my account.
 
[quote name='magiic']I think in future if ever did something this large scale again I'd make a paypal account specifically for it and get the money out ASAP and close the account as soon as I had the money. Hell there was a two week period during the dispute my account was unlocked. In hindsight I wish I had of closed my account.[/quote]

I'm figuring you'll have to change info if you want to do something like that, who knows, paypal might do a search for all accounts under the same name and address and nail you on your other account.

They can do that on Ebay so why not paypal ya know?
Just a heads up for later occassions
 
how could i have missed this.. i was probably too busy at circuit city looking for phoenix wright or something for $12.xx

anyways.. i really feel for you, magiic, after all the 12 pages ive read over this ps3 ordeal of yours. but, you shouldnt ignore big corporations like paypal. they will bite you again if they find a better solution to collect in your country. its better to find someone (a lawyer, or a non-profit org) to help you out on this one. in my opinion, i dont think this case is done. money isn't always involve when needing help and i know its not easy to get help, but i believe those who need it the most will get it. maybe even law students could help you out even? the point is to turn the negative experience into a positive and hopeful one. in the eyes of paypal yes you have lost the battle, but you have so many evidence that they have ignored. i have alot to say but i feel as if everyone else contributed them already. i hate to say this, its not just the buyer who cheated you, its him and a big corporation cheated you.

also, i understand that you live in canada. but this doesn't mean you cant write letters to officials even in the U.S. (if it was me, i would contact the law enforcement around his town and report the bastard. but thats me.)

better be prepared than never. save everything. all im hoping is that you do not give up on this. look at the guy with the $150 claim and won, yours is $1050.
 
If I create a new paypal account under a different name what do I have to watch out for? Does my bank account need to be in the same name etc?
 
Thought I would drop off this suggestion. You could call him and tape record the conversation. Then you would have some hard evidence to support your side. Of course, you would need to check on laws concerning recorded phone conversations.
 
Magiic, I saw you mentioned earlier that you are only 17, and not even supposed to have a PP account. Do you know if there are any laws in your country that prevent creditors from collecting debts from minors? I know that here in the US, minor protection laws prevent car dealerships and CC companies from forcing payment of debt on anyone under 18., (at least, that is the effect of the laws in my state). And while I'm not sure they would even pertain to you, you might look into it if/when the PP creditors come calling.

This is assuming of course, that you signed up alone, and didn't use your parent's account or anything. If you did that, PP would just hold them responsible for the balance.

Anyway, good luck, and I hope all ends well.
 
[quote name='Veritas1204']Magiic, I saw you mentioned earlier that you are only 17, and not even supposed to have a PP account. Do you know if there are any laws in your country that prevent creditors from collecting debts from minors? I know that here in the US, minor protection laws prevent car dealerships and CC companies from forcing payment of debt on anyone under 18., (at least, that is the effect of the laws in my state). And while I'm not sure they would even pertain to you, you might look into it if/when the PP creditors come calling.

This is assuming of course, that you signed up alone, and didn't use your parent's account or anything. If you did that, PP would just hold them responsible for the balance.

Anyway, good luck, and I hope all ends well.[/quote]

Nope it's entirely my account under my name attached to a bank account also under my name. I believe though if they come after me for collection at such a time when I am found to be a minor although at the rate paypal does things I could very well be no longer a minor by the time they send me to collections. If they come after when Im a minor I think responsibility falls to my legal guardians to cover the debt owing. Still nothing from paypal outside of the your account has a negative balance e-mails.
 
[quote name='magiic']I believe though if they come after me for collection at such a time when I am found to be a minor although at the rate paypal does things I could very well be no longer a minor by the time they send me to collections. If they come after when Im a minor I think responsibility falls to my legal guardians to cover the debt owing.[/quote]

Your age at the time of Paypal's so-called infraction is what counts. If Paypal sits on it and decides to sic a collections hound on you when you're 25, then you're protected since you were under age majority at the time. Going after your parents, ...well, for a settlement perhaps. That happens often in the US with the RIAA suing minors for copyright infringement and family members settling before court.

That's at least in the US. I'm not sure how the US-Canada Paypal TOS is listed and in which country/state/province legal issues are dealt. All that could verily be out the window for all I know.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']This is horrible. I'm sorry op. Your story is making me wonder if I should take my 3,000 out of their money market account.[/QUOTE]

Wow, how did you build it up so high? ;)

Anyways, unless you are selling big ticket items that you might get scammed on (ala Magiic) I wouldn't worry about it. As I discussed with you before (via PM) the interest I've made off the PayPal money market has more than made up for the occasional chargeback on a small item (I've had one from a buyer in Spain).
 
[quote name='Caliburn']Your age at the time of Paypal's so-called infraction is what counts. If Paypal sits on it and decides to sic a collections hound on you when you're 25, then you're protected since you were under age majority at the time. Going after your parents, ...well, for a settlement perhaps. That happens often in the US with the RIAA suing minors for copyright infringement and family members settling before court.

That's at least in the US. I'm not sure how the US-Canada Paypal TOS is listed and in which country/state/province legal issues are dealt. All that could verily be out the window for all I know.[/quote]

as far as I have read paypal deals with a collections agency in Quebec, apparently all it takes to get them to give up is use a stern voice and tell them to stop harassing you lol
 
Just got an e-mail saying it's my last warning before the pursue other collection remedies. I have ten days apparently.
 
[quote name='magiic']Just got an e-mail saying it's my last warning before the pursue other collection remedies. I have ten days apparently.[/quote]

Hehe, that is code for "You better send us our money now or we'll ...well we'll sell the debt to another collection agency and then whenever they get around to it they will call you and ask you to pay them!" LoL... I had something similar happen to me and you should know that debt collectors will try desperately to intimidate you into cracking. It sounds like you have a pretty solid court case so when they call to harass you, tell them that. Just say, "Hell yeah, let's go to court." 5 to 10 years later they might get around to it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top