Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

A really, really dull, paint by numbers show for sure.

The loss of Rollins is clearly huge to WWE, and they took an opportunity to try something new and see if lightning would hit, and avoided doing anything of the sort.

Predictable doesn't have to be dull. Y2J's countdown - well, you knew what was coming when it ended, but my god, did I ever mark out.

This was both predictable and dull as all get out. Two new champions in five minutes and I yawned, said "oh, how about that?" and flipped back to trying to figure out how to enter codes on my new Xbox One.

I'm trying to not be too critical of the show, but there seemed to be absolutely nothing that I would either (a) go back and watch or (b) want to have a discussion about. Zero "oh my god!" or "did you see! I KNOW! AMAZING!" conversational moments.

 
Paige-Charlotte was very good. I don't recall another divas match that had as many submission holds as that one did.

I'm glad "he" has the belt again. As I said some posts back, I'd like this to involve a feud with Lesnar.  I'd even be ok with him winning the Rumble to make it happen. 

 
I barely follow any wrestling related news anymore but I decided to peruse the results. This really comes across as, "hey remember how much people liked Daniel Bryan after we 'screwed' him? Let's do that again to get people on board with him."

Belly dat
 
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A very good possibility, RvB. The difference being that, in the eyes of the fans, there was a blurring of the lines b/w how Bryan was "screwed" on tv - we bought it so hard we were convinced the actual *company* was trying to stymie his growth, and seeing it played out on tv led us to saying "SEE! They are screwing him!"

I can't imagine fans will think that of Reigns. He's simply not someone who can play a believable underdog. Not criticizing him, but it's a fact. Like Steamboat could never be a heel. Reigns can't be the underdog.

 
mykevermin said:
A very good possibility, RvB. The difference being that, in the eyes of the fans, there was a blurring of the lines b/w how Bryan was "screwed" on tv - we bought it so hard we were convinced the actual *company* was trying to stymie his growth, and seeing it played out on tv led us to saying "SEE! They are screwing him!"

I can't imagine fans will think that of Reigns. He's simply not someone who can play a believable underdog. Not criticizing him, but it's a fact. Like Steamboat could never be a heel. Reigns can't be the underdog.
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I'm not saying it'll work, it just comes across that way as their train of thought.

He's actually a good part of the reason I just gave up. After Royal Rumble I just had no interest in seeing Reigns as "the guy." I have nothing against him personally, it's just every time I see him he's so damn vanilla he makes Cena look like fuckin Ben and Jerry's.

It's painfully obvious they've picked him to be The Rock 2.0. They're forcing this square peg into a round hole because they're still desperately seeking that draw from over a decade ago. They got a little taste of what they missed when he came back twice for a once in a lifetime match and now they're jonesing for that high again.

The problem though is that The Rock had charisma, personality, gravitas. Reigns, on the other hand has a taunt that looks like he's getting ready for some heavy duty fisting action and a finishing move that's making good ol' Jean Claude Van Damme perk up and wonder if he can sue him for copyright infringement. Oh, and he's got the real money maker, this face:

6ARbzPB.jpg
 
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I'm with you, RvB. Reigns is not interesting to me - I'm not gonna say "I give up," I'm just recognizing that Reigns and the current WWE title scene just aren't for me. 

That said, losing Rollins and Orton makes the top card challenging. You have to put together a compelling program for the title, but also make sure that leaves room to build on the secondary titles*, build dudes, and capitalize on the unexpected people the crowd is getting behind. Writing isn't easy, but, hey, they're WWE for a reason. I have higher expectations than what they gave us last night - even if I can't think of anything better (I suppose the corporate Reigns vs backstabbed friend Ambrose feud would have worked).

*Is WWE doing anything with Del Rio's US title? The weekly Cena challenges were good, and let's admit to ourselves that Cena had some great matches and solid feuds in 2015. Good year, buddy, and way to build that title. It strikes me that WWE has all but ignored that title since the second Del Rio won it, though. Am I wrong? (I don't watch Smackdown and miss every other Raw, more or less.)

 
Rigor Mortis said:
Actually yes it does. It scrolls at the bottom of the screen under the show that is currently airing.
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Ive only watched Paragon Pro Wrestling on that channel twice, neither time had any listings on the screen. I dont know if its because I have Dish, or maybe it doesnt scroll them on every show or what, but definitely wasnt there for me.

 
Pop with my cable provider does not have the scroll at the bottom of the screen.  Since pretty much every cable box has a guide built in that faded away a long time ago in my area.

 
Could someone tell me without spoilers if it was worth watching SS? Just a simple no, every match ended up exactly as we expected or....actually yes watch it they tossed the ball in some different directions this time and it was worth watching. Thanks guys!

 
Reading all the disappointment here I will just say you guys all are starting to sound like me. Almost any wrestling topic/board I go to seems to always be the same, it sounds like a bunch of survivors sympathizing with their captors.  No one is happy,  everyone wants to leave but no one can find the strength to because WWE is just such a routine part of their life at this point.

Life handed them a curve in the road to get off their shitty course and they chose to again just keep driving straight. I think its time for me to hop out of the car and accept that Vince forgot how to turn years ago, the guy has a one track mind and I fully believe that the reason the WWE is so crap is because they have created too isolated a corporate/decision making structure.They created their own bubble and I am starting to think even Vince's death wont be enough to make it pop.

 
It's not that tragic - and I say that as someone who very much used to be a "TRIPLE H BEAT JERICHO BOYCOTT THE COMPANY AND PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!" kind of dude. Today I enjoy what I want and, while I don't ignore the stuff I don't like, I try to understand if it's for a different kind of fan than I am, or just don't get upset about it.

Reigns the fightin', honest, hardworkin' babyface doesn't do it for me at all. Couldn't be any less interested in him. Same with Seamus. But, hey, that's life, and they're gonna feud for the title going into 2016 (i.e., for the next 5 weeks), at the least.

Kevin Owens is still out there putting on good matches and being a classic heel. Neville is wowing crowds (even if he can't get either a win or a program to save his fuckin' life). New Day is just magnificent. Bray Wyatt is showing why it makes sense to give someone second and third chances to try to succeed, even if your name is Husky Harris.

There's good and bad. Sometimes the bad outnumbers the good, and sometimes the writing stinks and the matches stink and the programs (the feuds, not the shows) stink. That's fine, that's life.

Besides, I'm so stoked for Joe v Balor. I can't set unrealistic expectations like WWE has to do EVERYTHING I WANT or I'll hate them forever and never watch again. I'll focus on the stuff I am excited about, like the tag scene in NXT, rather than the stuff I find disappointing, which is the poor tag scene on the main roster (great teams, potential great programs, and little focus or development on building a tag division).

It's just a television show in the end.

 
The New Day is easily the best part of any show they are on. I mean they have that whole unicorn thing, the trombone, it's all so ridiculous and hilarious.

 
mykevermin said:
It's not that tragic - and I say that as someone who very much used to be a "TRIPLE H BEAT JERICHO BOYCOTT THE COMPANY AND PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!" kind of dude. Today I enjoy what I want and, while I don't ignore the stuff I don't like, I try to understand if it's for a different kind of fan than I am, or just don't get upset about it.
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Stop being so rational. PROTEST! EVERYONE STAND UP AND TURN AROUND EVERY TIME ROMAN GRABS A MIC

Also go with 4 other friends and paint "B O O T Y" across your butts

 
Matt Young said:
I still watch all the shows and enjoy most of them. It's just that Survivor Series was a giant piece of shit.
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So, youre the one!! I watch Royal Rumble, WrestleMania and the Brock Lesnar house show specials. RR and WM disappoint me enough for an entire year so no reason to bother. Im much happier not watching WWEs main shows. NXT and old Nitros and Raws give me my wrestling fill. And I enjoy watching too.

 
So.

I'm starting to train in a few weeks. Not full time, but a tiered class that fits with my existing work/travel schedule. I have zero delusions of grandeur, but the workshop on Sunday was so fun, so exciting, that I have to at least learn to do this.

I think I'm being honest with myself and respecting the wrestling industry as well by saying I see this as a hobby. I'm fit and am willing to give 100% to this, but I also have a good career and already make decent money - most importantly, I'm starting in my mid-30's, so this is absolutely NOT a career move for me.

So I don't think I'm being shitty by saying "it's a hobby." It's a young man's game - which isn't to say I can't do it or learn to do it well - just that by the time I am able to truly say I understand wrestling or think of myself as a pro wrestler, I'll be too old for any company to have full-time interest in me.

If the most I ever do is job out in basketball gyms in New Jersey for a few years, I'll consider that a success.

Y'all: I'm so. fucking. stoked.

 
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That's awesome, Myke! I hope you excel in training and are willing to share some of your experience with us. I trained with New Midwest Wrestling for a brief time at age 19, and it was the most challenging experience I've ever had as far physical activities go. But I'm really excited for you.
 
Brad Maddox got "future endeavored" from WWE right before Thanksgiving.  Supposedly it was due to his promo using "cocky pricks" during a dark match at the Smackdown tapings last night that rubbed some in the company the wrong way.

Also TNA is also giving another good reason for talent to walk away from the company.  Just a few days before their planned tour of India with a live "One Night Only" PPV and stuff for Impact tapings, it got pushed to next year.   So now they don't have any thing for talent to do until next year, which means no pay check for the rest of the year.

 
Hilarious.

The timing stinks, but he should also consider himself fortunate that he remained employed so long. He's in that "they still work here?!?!" umbrella. Like him and Alex Riley and Zack Ryder (hey, reality check: not everyone in that category is gonna be a guy you dislike or don't care about).

 
mykevermin said:
So.

I'm starting to train in a few weeks. Not full time, but a tiered class that fits with my existing work/travel schedule. I have zero delusions of grandeur, but the workshop on Sunday was so fun, so exciting, that I have to at least learn to do this.

I think I'm being honest with myself and respecting the wrestling industry as well by saying I see this as a hobby. I'm fit and am willing to give 100% to this, but I also have a good career and already make decent money - most importantly, I'm starting in my mid-30's, so this is absolutely NOT a career move for me.
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Nice, get at it. I was close to going to Al Snow's gym in the mid-90's but opted for a different career path. Was close enough that I went down and discussed money (and still have his business card with a typo on it). There is zeeeeeero chance I'd be able to pull that off now due to health issues that have popped up over the past few years (I'm about your age now) so I'm impressed you're going ahead with it.

If you ever run across a guy doing a heel Freddie Mercury character at a midwest/east coast show, I work with that dude. Good luck sir.

 
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^ care to elaborate?

I'm pretty ambivalent on the top card of WWE right now, so I'm not feeling the torches and pitchforks stuff. Mick Foley had a sizeable rant on his FB page about it last night.

 
Watching RAW, I just realized that Jericho was absolutely right when he said everyone (that's a heel) got the "Wear a suit after you become champ" thing from him.

 
Any of y'all listen to Taz's daily radio show?

Other than Wednesdays (listener submitted promos), I think it's pretty solid on the whole (if you can get past the pretty typical morning radio bro schtick).

 
WWE Network has added some more classic stuff to its library. Smoky Mountain Wrestling, NWA, AWA, and Mid South are now airing. Not a ton, but its a start. It beats watching Raw or Smackdown.

 
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MushaOne said:
WWE Network has added some more classic stuff to its library. Smoky Mountain Wrestling, NWA, AWA, and Mid South are now airing. Not a ton, but its a start. It beats watching Raw or Smackdown.
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I've been very pleased with the adding of these especially Smokey Mountain and the NWA stuff. I would love them to finally add ECW on TNN and more Nitros I really want 99-2001 added as well as Thunder and WCW Saturday Night. I feel like the network has a lack of ECW content so ECW on TNN is at the top of my want list when it comes to the Network.

 
NWA broadcast...Manny Fernandez beats his opponent with what Schiavone calls the "Flying Burrito."

Also of note -

Ron Garvin kisses Jimmy Valiant while the crowd cheers - PROGRESSIVE!

David Crockett's excited "SHE LIKES IT!!" when Magnum TA forces himself on Baby Doll - OPPOSITE OF PROGRESSIVE!

David Crockett: "Nikita Koloff goes down on his prey."

 
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KaneRobot said:
NWA broadcast...Manny Fernandez beats his opponent with what Schiavone calls the "Flying Burrito."

Also of note -

Ron Garvin kisses Jimmy Valiant while the crowd cheers - PROGRESSIVE!

David Crockett's excited "SHE LIKES IT!!" when Magnum TA forces himself on Baby Doll - OPPOSITE OF PROGRESSIVE!

David Crockett: "Nikita Koloff goes down on his prey."
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The commentary back then was the best. They could get away with so much, compared to today where you can get fired for saying pricks in a dark match promo on a B show that no one watches anyway.

 
mykevermin said:
^ care to elaborate?

I'm pretty ambivalent on the top card of WWE right now, so I'm not feeling the torches and pitchforks stuff. Mick Foley had a sizeable rant on his FB page about it last night.
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I guess Foley's son is joining the creative team. It makes his rants lately feel a little disingenuous if he already knew about it.

 
Sigma said:
The commentary back then was the best. They could get away with so much, compared to today where you can get fired for saying pricks in a dark match promo on a B show that no one watches anyway.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv0G38MbfGQ

"Eh, it's a French show. I'll just say cumtwat."

 
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mykevermin said:
Any of y'all listen to Taz's daily radio show?

Other than Wednesdays (listener submitted promos), I think it's pretty solid on the whole (if you can get past the pretty typical morning radio bro schtick).
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His theory that the Holm/Rousey fight was a work made me chuckle a bit and I don't even watch UFC.

 
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There was a loooooot of awful racist/sexist/misogynistic stuff in that commentary. I don't see any reason to hide from who we were then, but I also think we would all cringe if it was still this way today (imagine if Lucha Dragons or ADR were given the "Tito Santana" treatment by announcers).

 
I can not find it online yet but apparently WWE is posting some type of survey to fans asking for input on why the products viewership is dropping. Would enjoy filling that out if its not limited in who can.

@myke good luck on training mate! You will have to post a few pics later in your dashing ring underoos.

 
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