Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

You know what? Zayn vs Owens was fantastic and really that's all I wanted (besides Bullet/Balor Club, but I guess Extreme Rules now) so I got no complaints.

 
Enzo got released from the hospital.  Hope he's fine after the recovery period.  I guess it wasn't too serious if they didn't keep him overnight for observation.

Also, this gem:

https://twitter.com/FightOwensFight/status/726983158730756096

 
Great news about Enzo. The Straight Shoot podcast had some discussion about how his body language clearly indicated he was KO'd (and nothing more severe). If you can stomach Aubrey Sitterson's constant "woe-is-me, please donate money so I can live in Los Angeles and write comics for a living" sob story, then it's actually a good podcast. He's overwhelmingly positive about WWE - which I don't always agree with, but it's a different perspective that I definitely appreciate.

Payback had four matches that were tremendously enjoyable to watch (Owens-Zayn, Miz-Cesaro, Nattie-Charlotte, Jericho-Ambrose), so if the main event was an overbooked TNA-esque hot mess that made the champ look like a doofus and put the focus on the wrong people, well, at least I sure as hell enjoyed pretty much the entire first two hours in a major way.

http://rare.us/story/bill-burr-makes-fun-of-one-of-the-most-shockingly-real-wrestling-matches-of-all-time/

 
At the time I hated laughing at someone posting "Badaboom, most concussed guy in the room. How'd you get here?" but feel less bad about it now that he should be fine in a few weeks. Loved the Owens pic as well as the one of him standing outside the hospital still in his gown. I guess he could be on the show tonight just to talk, but who knows if that's a good idea.

Zayn/Owens was WWE match of the year so far. Jericho/Ambrose and Nattie/Charlotte were ok but kind of a comedown after the excitement over the prior two matches. There are a million things they could have done to make that main event have an impactful ending (rather than an "Impactful" ending, har har), but they just went with what everyone knew was coming. Predictable interference, finisher spamming, Roman wins.

As it was, the match was actually pretty well done, but a better ending would have made it something really memorable.

 
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It says a lot about Owens/Zayn that they not only did what they did, but they did it after the entire audience had the wind taken out of them by Enzo's KO.

 
i know there is a serioiusness to what happened to Enzo, but what if Cass just went nuts and beat both guys to win... then at least the storyline would have progressed... plus you make Cass into a monster.  just sayin...

 
dkreegz515 said:
i know there is a serioiusness to what happened to Enzo, but what if Cass just went nuts and beat both guys to win... then at least the storyline would have progressed... plus you make Cass into a monster. just sayin...
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And bury the Vaudevillains as two guys who couldn't beat one. They're already pretty smallish (relative to WWE standards).

Dude's well being is on the line. A wrestling match finish can take a hike when that's the case.

 
My RN girlfriend was watching with me and said she was nervous because she's seen patients coding breathing like Enzo was after he went down. Agonal breathing she called it. We all know how random recovery can be, hopefully he can keep going with no lingering issues.
 
A few sites were saying they gave him oxygen and began CPR. Not sure if the latter is true but you could see the oxygen on while they wheeled him out.

 
Show was fun last night... MINUS my heart sinking into my stomach during the tag match, the awful finish to the Women's match with Lil Naitch (are they seriously reviving that?), Cesaro not winning the title, and the crowd's stupid CM Punk chants. The Authority storyline isn't particularly good, but I still would have liked to have heard what they were saying during that segment for the laughs. Did not hear a word Steph or Vince said, and got about half of what Shane said.  

On the flip side, Ryback mocking CM Punk in his entrance is probably the only entertaining thing he's ever done.

 
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tonyxvx said:
Show was fun last night... MINUS my heart sinking into my stomach during the tag match, the awful finish to the Women's match with Lil Naitch (are they seriously reviving that?), Cesaro not winning the title, and the crowd's stupid CM Punk chants. The Authority storyline isn't particularly good, but I still would have liked to have heard what they were saying during that segment for the laughs. Did not hear a word Steph or Vince said, and got about half of what Shane said.

On the flip side, Ryback mocking CM Punk in his entrance is probably the only entertaining thing he's ever done.
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Ryback was on fire last night with mocking Punk and that weight belt that said "Pre-Show Stopper". I had the same thoughts about Charles Robinson last night as well, but I am all for bringing by the Lil' Naitch gimmick. Charles Robinson has quite a bit of personality for a referee and was entertaining in the role in WCW. Best ref to ever have any sort of angle in wrestling though has got to be Nick Patrick though, he killed it during the early days of the NWO storyline.

 
Man, Owens is gold no matter who they put him with. One thing I didn't like: that match last night was supposed to be over serious shit, and they built it up with a great package. Then Zayn comes out there dancing and smiling. 

It might just be me, but Jericho's matches lately have bored the shit out of me. He and Styles always seemed to be just a step out of time, and I didn't think the Ambrose match last night was anything special. It's weird to say that because Jericho is one of my all time guys. 

I loved the Hey Arnold! reference from Cass. 

 
are they calling the   WWE network  now    on demand or is it coming to cable ?

says you can watch this   ON DEMAND or  on the wwe network?

 
It would make zero sense for Cass to just finish that match on his own. Not only do you have the issue of him burying the other team, but what does that say about the tab division? That was the finals, so both teams had to beat others to get there. You're basically implying that if Cass is capable of beating the Vaudevillains on his own, he could in turn single handedly beat every other team before them on his own.

And then what if he wins and Enzo isn't cleared to compete right away? Is Cass going to face the new day on his own?

And Owens/Zayn should've started with Owens sprinting back down the ramp to beat the shit out of Zayn as soon as he stepped out.
 
slidecage said:
are they calling the WWE network now on demand or is it coming to cable ?

says you can watch this ON DEMAND or on the wwe network?
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You know any programming that you can queue up and watch whenever you want is called on demand right? It's not just limited to cable programming. Netflix is an on demand video service, Hulu is, wwe network is.

Use your brain sometimes.
 
ProfessorStotch said:
You know any programming that you can queue up and watch whenever you want is called on demand right? It's not just limited to cable programming. Netflix is an on demand video service, Hulu is, wwe network is.

Use your brain sometimes.
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well how they are saying watch this ON DEMAND and WWE network sort of made it sound like two different things...

Should said Watch it ON demand on the wwe network not and

 
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mykevermin said:
slidecage is a special dude. be nice to him and accept him just the way he is.
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And by that he means find your ignore list. I've been getting good mileage out of it lately.

WWE Shop is BOGO shirts again today. Would have bought the new Sami but it's sold out.

 
tonyxvx said:
Show was fun last night... MINUS my heart sinking into my stomach during the tag match, the awful finish to the Women's match with Lil Naitch (are they seriously reviving that?), Cesaro not winning the title, and the crowd's stupid CM Punk chants. The Authority storyline isn't particularly good, but I still would have liked to have heard what they were saying during that segment for the laughs. Did not hear a word Steph or Vince said, and got about half of what Shane said.

On the flip side, Ryback mocking CM Punk in his entrance is probably the only entertaining thing he's ever done.
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To be fair, that whole segment deserved the CM Punk chants because it was boooooring and added nothing besides drawing out the finish to the main event.

And I hate how Bret Hart's legacy in WWE has basically just been an excuse to bring up Montreal screwjob nonstop. Just let that shit go, WWE. It isn't clever and it's just groan inducing.

 
The cartoon show is only available on demand because it is adult oriented. This way kids can't just happen to turn on the network and see Flair dry humping a boulder or doing any of his other every day shenanigans.

 
ProfessorStotch said:
It would make zero sense for Cass to just finish that match on his own. Not only do you have the issue of him burying the other team, but what does that say about the tab division? That was the finals, so both teams had to beat others to get there. You're basically implying that if Cass is capable of beating the Vaudevillains on his own, he could in turn single handedly beat every other team before them on his own.
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Nothing wrong with that when done sparingly. I saw a tag match at an ROH show during WM23 weekend where one of the Briscoes got legit hurt doing some fucking ridiculous spot (SSP to the outside, I think) and they wheeled him out on a stretcher. Can't remember which one it was, but his brother finished the match by himself, was SUPER fucking intense - not in a phony "grr I'm an angry pro wrestler" way, it was honestly something I don't think I've seen before or since - and won the match. It was actually really convincing, and didn't at all make it seem like "oh, he could just beat every team by himself" because he wouldn't have the emotional drive he did here if he kept trying to do it solo vs. other teams. He took it to a level that he wouldn't be capable of under normal circumstances.

 
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https://twitter.com/IAmJericho/status/727379613287104512

Can't disagree with Jericho on that. Seeing those same goofballs front row for every WWE show (this doofus, red hat guy, airbrushed white jacket guy, and so on) is fucking grating. 

 
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mykevermin said:
https://twitter.com/IAmJericho/status/727379613287104512

Can't disagree with Jericho on that. Seeing those same goofballs front row for every WWE show (this doofus, red hat guy, airbrushed white jacket guy, and so on) is fucking grating.
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The white jacket guy lives in my town and is about as much as a goof as you'd expect his name is John Glick aka WWEs Biggest Fan. Brock Lesnar Guy is from Chicago and is friends with John and a few other guys I know around the area, he is just as douchey and annoying as you'd imagine as well. If I can find the video I will post it, but I saw a video awhile ago on John's Facebook page of him cutting a promo on Enzo Amore at the Performance Center. You can watch the video here

 
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KaneRobot said:
He has 47k followers. What the fuck.
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His twitter line: "Figuring out my role in the business."

Save your ticket money and go to school, guy. Everybody in the business should be trained. Refs, managers, valets - everybody needs to know how to bump.

There have to be good schools in Chicago.

 
I guess I shouldn't question it, because people will fucking follow anything. I once got like 500 Twitter followers in one night just because people saw me on a concert livestream (I'm taller than everyone else) - I literally got followers just for standing there and other people trying to hashtag it. Then the band mentioned it and still does occasionally. The internet is fucking weird.

But I've also done very little to appeal to these people since then, other than try to be nice to strangers. If for some reason I start talking about "my place in the band," I want someone to punch me. Hard. This dude should be thankful for small favors.

-----

I picked a fine time to try to watch (some of) Raw with people that haven't watched in years (dull Shane/Steph segment followed by Goldust, Fandango, Big E, Kofi, and Xavier humping the air for the next 50-60 minutes or so).

 
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I always just assumed they got paid a flat rate. Here's your annual salary, we pay you X amount per show. We expect you to perform 100 dates and you'll get X amount for each one.

The way he words it, it sounds like you get paid more for wins and losses. And he's right to say that's completely fucking stupid.
 
I don't know the answer here. Ryback has a point, but the very principle of "drawing money" suggests that wrestlers shouldn't be paid equally, because fans don't view them equally. Adam Rose is fine in the ring, but he doesn't move the tickets and merch that Roman Reigns does.

Equality should be equality of opportunity - and that's a harder concept to pin down. It's easy to say that Tyler Breeze showed up from NXT and was DOA, while the Tom of Finland muscle guys Vince likes get countless chances (ironic considering the current topic of discussion). Those chances help solidify them as "over" (or not) and helps move merch.

I don't have the answer - Ryback has a great point about fairness, and maybe it's hierarchical as well - your place on the card dictates pay: keep in mind that Undertaker was allegedly paid FAR MORE than Kamala was years ago when they had a PPV feud and match. (on top of that, if the guy is already pulling in merch money by the boatload, giving him a larger payday than his opponent in the same match does seem a bit like a kick in the dick.) 

So Ryback has identified a real problem, and discussed it very frankly. I respect that. It's a problem that doesn't have a clear, obvious solution, though.

 
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ProfessorStotch said:
I always just assumed they got paid a flat rate. Here's your annual salary, we pay you X amount per show. We expect you to perform 100 dates and you'll get X amount for each one.

The way he words it, it sounds like you get paid more for wins and losses. And he's right to say that's completely fucking stupid.
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The guys that tend to win more, win more because they are paid more and they are paid more because they draw more money. I respect Ryback for not being afraid to voice his opinion, but a guy like Tyler Breeze is probably not making as much as Ryback, but Tyler is a guy who has recently gone on to say that he is happy with his position and the paycheck that comes along with it and he's a guy who's certainly lost more than he has won. This is a situation where Ryback either needs to swallow his pride and take whatever WWE offers or he should venture out into the indies and try his luck in Japan, I am sure he's saved his money well and would be able to make a good living working outside of the WWE. The ball is really in The Big Guys court right now.

 
I can't stand Ryback, so I'm just fine with this latest development.

Also, "Cameron" tweeted in response to what he posted, saying something like "AMEN!!"

You know Cameron. Remember her? She was one of those girls that did the thing for a while.

 
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