PS2 on a HDTV - How do I make it look less crappy?

Well, the only game I've been able to really try on an LCD HDTV (my sister's) was Rock Band and it looks pretty good through component with progressive scan and widescreen enabled. The image definitely doesn't look worse through component, it looks better. However, 480i games (and, seemingly, the startup process), have that weird jagged lines problems, which is awful. It's most noticeable with text - the letters are funky looking and harder to read. Does anyone know if the later fat PS2s had this fixed? Specifically model SCPH-50001? I would like to stick with a fat PS2, but only if they fixed this problem in the later fat PS2 model(s).

Also, regarding component video making games look worse on an HDTV in general, I call bullshit on that because we've tried a bunch of Gamecube games through component and they look much better than when run through RCA cables. Perhaps if you're seeing worse picture quality with component video on the PS2, then maybe what you are really experiencing is the PS2 bug with 480i sources on older PS2s?
 
No. PS2 games look worse on component on HDTVs because the image is sharper. While usually this would result in a better picture, the jaggies are significantly more pronounced as opposed to composite cables which blur the image.
 
EDIT: I edited the following paragraph at the point noted to correct things a bit

An LCD HDTV is going to blur (soften) the image produced by the PS2 even with a component cable because it is substantially lower resolution than even a 720p HDTV. It has to scale the image up (EDIT START) and in doing that LCDs use an "interpolation" method that inherently blurs/softens the image. It's kind of like anti-aliasing. (END EDIT) It will be less blurry/soft with component, but it certainly won't be "too sharp". It can't be. I can say from recent experience that Rock Band (480p widescreen) through component looked quite good, albeit still a bit soft/blurry. Certainly better than via composite.

Similarly I can tell you from experience that all of the 480p games we've tried on the Gamecube look much better via component than composite on this same HDTV.

Perhaps when you are thinking that component is going to make the image too sharp, you are thinking of something other than an LCD HDTV, or perhaps thinking of a Nintendo 64 era machine shown on an analog tube via composite vs. s-video. There, yes, s-video makes the image too sharp for some tastes, but that's on an analog tube TV. An LCD HDTV is entirely different.

If the image via component looks worse than composite or s-video, and in particular if it looks "jagged", then odds are that you are experiencing the 480i through component bug in older PS2s. Newer PS2s (supposedly) don't have this problem.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']EDIT: I edited the following paragraph at the point noted to correct things a bit

An LCD HDTV is going to blur (soften) the image produced by the PS2 even with a component cable because it is substantially lower resolution than even a 720p HDTV. It has to scale the image up (EDIT START) and in doing that LCDs use an "interpolation" method that inherently blurs/softens the image. It's kind of like anti-aliasing. (END EDIT) It will be less blurry/soft with component, but it certainly won't be "too sharp". It can't be. I can say from recent experience that Rock Band (480p widescreen) through component looked quite good, albeit still a bit soft/blurry. Certainly better than via composite.

Similarly I can tell you from experience that all of the 480p games we've tried on the Gamecube look much better via component than composite on this same HDTV.

Perhaps when you are thinking that component is going to make the image too sharp, you are thinking of something other than an LCD HDTV, or perhaps thinking of a Nintendo 64 era machine shown on an analog tube via composite vs. s-video. There, yes, s-video makes the image too sharp for some tastes, but that's on an analog tube TV. An LCD HDTV is entirely different.

If the image via component looks worse than composite or s-video, and in particular if it looks "jagged", then odds are that you are experiencing the 480i through component bug in older PS2s. Newer PS2s (supposedly) don't have this problem.[/quote]

Hmm.. very interesting read. I guess my ps2 is one of those component bug ones since I got it on Black Friday 2005.
 
The ultimate realization here is that you can't get blood from a stone. Nor, for that matter, can you polish a turd.

The average PS2 videogame runs at 4:3 480i resolution. Thats going to be upconverted to a progressive scan image by any fixed-pixel display like a LCD TV since those units cannot display an interlaced signal, so you can automatically expect to be in Jaggy Hell right from the get go.

IF you use a composite cable you'll get softer jaggies and less color definition. IF you use S-Video or Composite cables you'll get sharper jaggies and better color definition. Which you prefer is up to you. The only advantage to running component cables on a PS2 is to play some games in progressive scan mode, widescreen mode will work with even a standard SVideo cable (you'd let your TV do the deinterlacing to achieve a progressive signal).
 
I am at work now, but thought maybe someone here could answer before I go home and try it. I bought component cable for my slim PS2 and I got the same thing when I played Persona 3... excellent color, horrible edges.

Well, now I have the 80GB PS3 (actually Persona 3 seems to look pretty good through HDMI, I guess its that smoothing firmware update thing, but) the question I have is... since I am using HDMI, can I have composite cable hooked into my PS3 too? Then toggle which set of cables I want to use in the set-up ... so I don't have to manually change the wires everytime I want to swap?
 
I have a PS2 slim and am thinking of getting a PS3. Does the PS3 do anything besides upscaling? Does it emulate the PS2 and produce a 720p / 1080p image with sharper polygons but normal textures? My guess is it doesn't. I'm asking because playing PS1 games on the PC, you can have it render the polygons at a decent resolution like 1024 x 768 and games look really good, a lot better than upscaling or a 2x filter. I prefer an upscaled image that looks 'blocky' compared to a stretched image with smoothing. Keeping that in mind, will the PS3 look better than my slim PS2? If not, I'll just go for the one without BC, otherwise I might have to go for BC.
 
[quote name='bridgecat']I have a PS2 slim and am thinking of getting a PS3. Does the PS3 do anything besides upscaling? Does it emulate the PS2 and produce a 720p / 1080p image with sharper polygons but normal textures? My guess is it doesn't. I'm asking because playing PS1 games on the PC, you can have it render the polygons at a decent resolution like 1024 x 768 and games look really good, a lot better than upscaling or a 2x filter. I prefer an upscaled image that looks 'blocky' compared to a stretched image with smoothing. Keeping that in mind, will the PS3 look better than my slim PS2? If not, I'll just go for the one without BC, otherwise I might have to go for BC.[/QUOTE]

You'd better get an 80gb model quick then, because according to todays E3, they are phasing them out..the 40gb (with no B/C) is getting the 80 gig drive, but B/C is history.

The PS3 will essentially make your PS2 games look softer but with less jagged edges. Its nothing like the PS1 on the PC situation however, youre still left with low-rez textures.

If you like the blocky image you can do that with the PS2....or turn off the filters and run the PS3 in native mode.
 
I may just wait for that 80gb one to come out then. I played Okami all the way through and that looked decent on PS2 with an HDTV. I did notice that my PS1 games looked better on the PS2 than on the PS1, but that may have just been the component cables. Thanks for the information. My TV is not so good at upscaling and the video lags a little. Means that I can't play Guitar Hero, but I guess I can't do that on PS3 with the PS2 game anyway. People have said that all the video processing in the PS3 for PS2 games creates the same delay. Is that true?
 
Dont know for sure, but I think you missed what I said about todays E3 announcement. The way it was revealed today, the 80gb model that supports backwards compatibility SOUNDS like its going away. Instead the 40gb model which does NOT support backwards compatibility is going to get an 80gb hard drive and replace the existing 80gb model.

In other words, soon there wont be any backwards compatible PS3's....or so the rumor mill is turning.
 
[quote name='HeadRusch']
In other words, soon there wont be any backwards compatible PS3's....or so the rumor mill is turning.[/quote]

I'm not so sure it's not a tempest in a teapot. I've got a 32" Samsung LCD, and I hook up my PS3 up via S-Video and it looks acceptably well for playing most games. It's not all that great for PS1 games, but I use my PS3 for them (most of the time.) Granted, it's no VF5 on my PS3, but I'm not expecting that from the old gal. (I have a fat near-launch PS2) What I did notice, and something that might help in how the individual game looks is contrast... adjusting that a bit helps in most games, and with most games having a brightness filter, you can soften up the TV until you find a balance between good and jaggy. :) Usually, of course....

Granted, for those with too few hookups and too many devices, the non B/C PS3 might be a must-buy before they go the way of the dodo, but for most, I don't see it as a concern. (Besides I'm sure there are some holiday bundles planned and so forth...)

It's all an interesting rumor, even still. ;)
 
Yeah, I heard the 80gb announcement. I think my opinion of 'looking better' is different from most people. I don't like a lot of smoothing, so I don't think the PS3 will make my PS2 games look better for me. Thanks alot for all the help. I was getting really confused and frustrated with the backwards compatibility, but I think now I'll just get one of the cheaper PS3s at some point even if they don't have it. Here's hoping for a price drop on the 40gb when the 80gb replaces it. By then, maybe some of the PS3 games I'd like to play will drop in price too! :)
 
Sounds like a plan, and maybe I'm wrong..maybe the 80gb as it exists today will be the only SKU going forward...but based on the way they worded the announcement, it didn't seem so.

That means even the DualShock3 is going to continue to be an optional, external purchase. Which is utterly lame.
 
hey at GS today I got these

dsc03198cj9.jpg


they work very good for the price, I got my ps2 slim and wii hooked up to it atm, no problems so far and only $15.
 
[quote name='zewone']...Your best bet is just using component cables and using 480p mode whenever the game allows it.[/quote]

[quote name='willardhaven']Just use 480p where availible, otherwise just suck it up and enjoy the game... from what I saw, PS2 with progressive is better than PS3's upscaling.[/quote]


Truth. I got an LCD HDTV last October. I was dumbfounded by how PS2 games looked on it. I was using the same composite cables I had always used because I read that switching to expensive component cables wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

Then I ran across a set of Monster cables at Gamestop for $8 and hooked them up. Sure enough, there wasn't much difference. Then, I went into the PS2 browser and switched a few settings (I set it to the Y PB Gr (or whatever) settings), then stumbled across a list of HD-friendly games on Wikipedia. The games that are set to accomodate 480p look GREAT on my HDTV with component cables. GT4 and Tourist Trophy can both be played in 1080i, which is even sexier. Everything else is pretty much a crapshoot; some things look good, others decent, others look bad.

The PS3's upscaling is nice, but PS2 games that run in Progressive scan on the PS2 look better IMHO.

Note: The old Xbox is a billion times more HD-friendly than the PS2 is. You just tell the system what your tv supports and it makes magic happen...

EDIT: Wikipedia link: Boo-Ya.
 
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