PS3 pre-owned games banned?

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shlby

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The article itself is rather short, but if this is true, then I really don't know why sony would make a move like this. Granted, Valve Software pretty much does the same thing with Steam, but I think its weird that when you buy a game, you only buy permission to play the game. Then again Games Radar did contact Sony to see what they have to say about this recent news, but didn't accept or deny it. =/

http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060524153157765035&sectionId=1006

Here is the article for those who are to lazy to click.
[PS3] Sony makes moves to stamp out lucrative second-hand market
Words: Matt Cundy

Wednesday 24 May 2006
High street games shops have been told by Sony that there will be no PS3 pre-owned sections in their stores as it will be illegal for customers to sell any next-gen PlayStation games that they've bought, retail sources have revealed to GamesRadar.

It seems that Sony is planning to adopt a licensing system that will mean gamers won't own the PS3 titles that they've paid money for. Instead, they will only be purchasing the licence to play the game and that the software itself will still be Sony property - meaning that the disc won't be the customer's to sell.

We assume that the thinking behind this move will ultimately be to stop PS3 games being resold several times - which currently snatches potential sales away from Sony - and to counter the impression in consumers' minds that games are only really worth their pre-owned price and are not worth buying new.

When we contacted Sony, it issued us with the following statement: "We have made all of the official announcements at E3 and cannot make any further comments at this time. We will be announcing more news running up to PlayStation 3's launch."
 
I can honestly say, without any hesitation, that this would prevent me from ever buying a PS3.
I love my PS2, PSP, DS, GC, 360, and all systems I've had before in equal measure. I would love to own a Wii as well, but Sony is making really hard for even a multi-console guy like me to feel good about buying a PS3.

I mean, how many ways can they possibly F us in the A?
 
Ahh, its interesting that this is coming up again.

My initial reaction was that this must be old news but it is dated may '06 so it looks like its back in the spotlight again.

Maybe they're really trying to test their theory of "people will buy the PS3 no matter what"
 
This sounds false. With the high price tag already in place, Sony would not be stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot by banning pre-owned games. I can see them selling licensed downloadable games though.
 
Well, it might -really- work for PSOne/Two games, if sony could actually sell the code [case free, or perhaps as a download] and license you to play it, then it would be NO DIFFERENT than virtual console. Imagine being able to play Lunar, Grandia, Suikoden, and other rare ones at a cheap price? A collapse of the eBay market and used game stores might really make new prices cheaper.

And technically, you don't own the games you buy, you own the media they are on and their packaging, the game is exclusively the developer's and in part Sony's. I used to remember playing Genesis games and always getting

PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA OF AMERICA

right before the game starts. It makes sense, the game either belongs to Sega or was licensed by Sega, the game belongs to Sega or belongs to developer who has the rights to release it on Sega Genesis format. The cartridge is yours, the box is yours, but the code isn't. Tampering with the code, like it or not, is against the law.

Of course, no police officer or copyright law writer in their own mind would sue someone for a pokemon palette edit.

If the license system works out though, it would be a big step for preserving old games. Sometimes I tremble in fear thinking 100 years from now a playable copy of Shining Force II won't exist anymore.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']My God, this rumor is like a year old. When are people, let alone "journalists," going to stop with this story?[/QUOTE]
This is a separate story entirely. The first story was about some technology that would prevent you from doing this. What they're talking about now is preventing retailers from carrying used games in their stores. It will still be physically possible, but Sony wants to make it illegal.

This won't work here, from a legal standpoint, simply purchasing the item does not enter you into a contract. Also, there is the right of first sale. Companies have tried things like this before with books, and have failed.
 
I dont beleive it. They cant stop you from selling your old games if you want to, and they cant stop someone from buying them from you. At least not in America.

All they could do is somehow require a game to be registered so that it would only play on a single registered PS3 console. That would even stop you from bringing your game to a friends house to play. It would also prevent stores like Blockbuster, or gamefly from renting PS3 games. I just dont see that happening. It would be suicide for Sony. Especially if the 360 and the Wii didnt also do the same thing.
 
This is most likely not true, but it would be a wet dream for both Sony and game developers if this actually happens. It would also cement my (and I would assume MANY, MANY gamers) decision to not buy a PS3. Only instead of me not buying a PS3 until a price drop, I would not buy a PS3 ever.
 
I had also heard it was a machine built in register thing per disc and each disk could only be registered once. after that it was going to be useless but I thought atht awhole theroy or rumor was debunked.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']I had also heard it was a machine built in register thing per disc and each disk could only be registered once. after that it was going to be useless but I thought atht awhole theroy or rumor was debunked.[/QUOTE]
That had to do with a patent that Sony filed. The technology does exist, it was a rumor/theory as to whether it would be in the PS3.
 
[quote name='Stryffe2004']This sounds false. With the high price tag already in place, Sony would not be stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot by banning pre-owned games. I can see them selling licensed downloadable games though.[/quote]

You'd be surprised what is born out of arrogance.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']You'd be surprised what is born out of arrogance.[/QUOTE]

And on second thought, it really is no different than the PC market right now. There is virtually a zero used PC games market. By specifically selling licenses, they make it official. Sony is marketing the PS3 as a computer, so who knows? Also, the "official response is that they are not going to limit games to one console. There was no word on whether they would sell licenses. They have to make up that money for the blu-ray somewhere.
 
I having a feeling that many of you will feel that Sony has no right to to state that you can't sell their games. (and you are right) However, I think Sony can deter you from selling their games. One such example is Half Life 2 and Valve.

On Steam, once you install Half Life 2 the cd key is binding to your account, and the only way to play the game is to validate your cd key online. Then Valve provides you the necessary files to run the game. (When you buy Half Life 2 you do not get all the files required to play the game until validation) However, Valve does provide you a way to unbind that cd key if you want, but you must pay a fee. In my opinion, this is pretty shady but valve isn't stopping you from selling Half Life 2, only deterring you.

So what it all comes down to is the licensing agreement. (Yes, I know every single one of you never read that legal contract that comes with every piece of software) If Sony decides to follow this route and if its in the licensing agreement then they skip happily to the bank, but I really don't know how the console market will react to this as the PC market is completely different.
 
The PC used game market sucks because a lot of douchebags buy the game, use the CD key to register, copy the disks and then sell the game. That renders it useless for online play because they have online accounts registered to that key.

That, and PC games drop in value really fast. Additionally, PC games are still only $40-50 while they've been more graphically advanced for almost a full year now and still look better than the next gen console equivalent.


[quote name='Stryffe2004']And on second thought, it really is no different than the PC market right now. There is virtually a zero used PC games market. By specifically selling licenses, they make it official. Sony is marketing the PS3 as a computer, so who knows? Also, the "official response is that they are not going to limit games to one console. There was no word on whether they would sell licenses. They have to make up that money for the blu-ray somewhere.[/quote]
 
I think this type of policy would only work if Sony were the only console manufacturer on the market, or if MS and Nintendo decided to do the same thing. If they did this it would be too easy to ignore the PS3 entirely and just buy a different system and games.

If there wasn't some type of validation system, would bootlegging the games still be illegal? I mean if owning the disc isn't owning the software then owning a copy of it isn't really owning an illegal copy, just playing it "without permission."
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Companies have tried things like this before with books, and have failed.[/QUOTE]

And with music CDs. And what was one of the big companies on the "You're not allowed to resell CDs" bandwagon? Oh, that's right: Sony.

Anyone who finds this implausible just isn't aware of Sony's track record as a business.

EDIT: Link about the above-mentioned CD broughhaha -- http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1993/08/08-25-93tdc/08-25-93darts-4.asp
 
I hope this is the case, just because it shakes things up and makes things entertaining.

Consider what would happen to the street price of a NEW game that had a low print run. Every game is one of a kind. Delicious
 
[quote name='trq']And with music CDs. And what was one of the big companies on the "You're not allowed to resell CDs" bandwagon? Oh, that's right: Sony.

Anyone who finds this implausible just isn't aware of Sony's track record as a business.[/quote]

Kind of reminds me of the DIVX experiment from a few years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

This sort of thing might work on PCs, but no way it works with consoles.

Also, goodbye game rentals if this pans out to be true. Now you'll have to buy a full-priced game without the chance to try it first. Lame.
 
well I mean, a store will still have to have demos to try. People cant be expected to buy something without trying. Demos will probably be available in some limited form online as well.
 
Came up on another forum I frequent. My post copied:

In November, when Sony's patent was announced, the exact same rhetoric flew around. I think if these "retail contacts" were credible, we would have heard of something along the lines of litigation against Sony by now.

Furthermore, if this were true, it would render the software useless if extensive repairs were made to the console (probably a hard drive replacement would run afoul of this), a replacement console were purchased, or backward compatibility were desired with a hypothetical Playstation 4. Would Sony or any company want that much additional technical support to be required for those scenarios?

If anything, it's probably a preemptive strike against patent trolls (i.e. Immersion; I don't know anything they manufactured prior to their lawsuits, and only a couple phones since then). Sony or someone else will probably want an aggressive copy protection method available down the road, and now Sony doesn't run the risk of having to license it from someone else.
 
If this is true, Sony has finally shit the bed.

Personally, I don't buy pre-owned unless the game is out of print, I'd rather pay a little more and make sure more money goes to the developers. When you buy pre-owned, the coproration that sells you the game makes all the money.

But limiting game rentals sounds like bad business.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']well I mean, a store will still have to have demos to try. People cant be expected to buy something without trying. Demos will probably be available in some limited form online as well.[/quote]

The only problem with that is that demos are often not representative of the entire final game, timed, and they often are pending ratings. For example, I don't think many people could get a good example of many games with timed demos (like the Sims 2 demo I tried for the PS2). What about a fighting game demo with only two characters and only one available mode? That isn't really enough to judge a game that will likely have 20+ characters and multiple game modes. Sony can do what they want, but consoles are about ease of use and this goes against that.
 
Sad fact of life is everyone will still buy a PS3. The gamers themselves might not touch it, but you still have all the casuals that don't know any better. They'll purchase it still thinking its the pimpest console to own. I already got a couple friends buying one because they're getting a hole in their pocket.
 
Hypothetically, if this worked out here in the US, wouldn't Sony essentially be putting Gamestop/EB employees around the country out of a job?
 
[quote name='Metal Boss']Yeah, I don't buy it...[/quote]

exactly, it's more like you rent or lease it. i just hope this time sony decides to go the rootkit free route on their drm.
 
[quote name='Number83']If this is true, Sony has finally shit the bed.

Personally, I don't buy pre-owned unless the game is out of print, I'd rather pay a little more and make sure more money goes to the developers. When you buy pre-owned, the coproration that sells you the game makes all the money.

But limiting game rentals sounds like bad business.[/quote]

That makes no sense. The developers made their money when the first person bought the game new. I don't care who makes "all of the money" when I buy a used game, I just want it cheap.
 
[quote name='gaelan']the only saving grace IF this is true is that ps3 games will retail at a low price...say $20[/QUOTE]
Why in the world would Sony drop the price at all? Just because you have no alternative doesn't mean Sony will give you a break.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Why in the world would Sony drop the price at all? Just because you have no alternative doesn't mean Sony will give you a break.[/quote]

hence the IF...but what i meant is that if everyone is forced to buy new, then it could mean lower pricing...i doubt it though.
 
[quote name='gaelan']exactly, it's more like you rent or lease it. i just hope this time sony decides to go the rootkit free route on their drm.[/quote]

Ah, I forgot about that nasty piece of business.
 
So Sony wants to make reselling games for PS3 a black market? Yeah, because that worked so well to curb alcohol and drug sales when that stuff was made illegal. I just hope if this turns out to be true that Japan turns into some quasi 1930s prohibition era land where everybody drives a model T, has a trench coat and fedora, and carries a Tommy gun. That would be awesome, and well worth it. Japan would be like some giant theme park. Well, more like a giant theme park...
 
[quote name='Stuka']So Sony wants to make reselling games for PS3 a black market? Yeah, because that worked so well to curb alcohol and drug sales when that stuff was made illegal. I just hope if this turns out to be true that Japan turns into some quasi 1930s prohibition era land where everybody drives a model T, has a trench coat and fedora, and carries a Tommy gun. That would be awesome, and well worth it. Japan would be like some giant theme park. Well, more like a giant theme park...[/quote]
Then we'd export mod chips FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE!
 
Commercial suicide for Sony if they go this route. With how low the margins are on new systems, games and accessories, no one would carry playstation 3 units and games.

Used games are a huge market and are much more profitable to retailers than new titles, even big retailers like Best Buy are getting into the used games racket. I think they would be rather upset if Sony did something like this and it kept them from making as much money on sales of the console and its games. Especially if they can still do that for Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii games.

Americans in particular hate the idea of not owning something they paid money for. Most people think when they buy a computer that they own the copy of windows that was put on it, but they really don't and Sony wants to move to the same model for their games.

You can own the media that it is pressed on, but you don't own the content, only the right to access the content, which they can and will revoke for any reason.

I will not purchase a PS3 or any other Sony products if they go this route, and I'll suggest that my friends and family do the same.
 
[quote name='Robobandit']Commercial suicide for Sony if they go this route. With how low the margins are on new systems, games and accessories, no one would carry playstation 3 units and games.

Used games are a huge market and are much more profitable to retailers than new titles, even big retailers like Best Buy are getting into the used games racket. I think they would be rather upset if Sony did something like this and it kept them from making as much money on sales of the console and its games. Especially if they can still do that for Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii games.

Americans in particular hate the idea of not owning something they paid money for. Most people think when they buy a computer that they own the copy of windows that was put on it, but they really don't and Sony wants to move to the same model for their games.

You can own the media that it is pressed on, but you don't own the content, only the right to access the content, which they can and will revoke for any reason.

I will not purchase a PS3 or any other Sony products if they go this route, and I'll suggest that my friends and family do the same.[/QUOTE]


word
 
When Best Buy started testing preplayed games in certain markets the video game assoication freaked out about this then as well. I can understand why this has come up again with the cost of producing games of the xbox 360 and ps3, but honestly there is no way in hell they are going to change people's mindset on this issue.

Really if the logic on the next generation holds true with costs per game we will see tons on gaming companines consolidation since a few bad games will sink a company. At the same time the number of new unique games will definitly decrease and content could get stale. Think about if a company has to spend 4-5 times to make a ps3 game over a ps2 then its easy for them to lose there shirt and they will take fewer risks. Its the same case with the xbox/xbox360.

At the same time the low costs of Wii development may push more developers to make 4 games for the Wii over 1 for the ps3. We could end up with xbox 360/ps 3 being the killer systems, but the Wii having all the games and in the end content is king...
 
This single-user disc technology is just Hollywood flexing it's huge cock, preparing to ream both the industry and the consumers in the ass. Hard.
 
[quote name='kjauburn']
Really if the logic on the next generation holds true with costs per game we will see tons on gaming companines consolidation since a few bad games will sink a company. At the same time the number of new unique games will definitly decrease and content could get stale. Think about if a company has to spend 4-5 times to make a ps3 game over a ps2 then its easy for them to lose there shirt and they will take fewer risks. Its the same case with the xbox/xbox360. [/QUOTE]
I wouldn't worry too much about "development" costs. Companies have been complaining about this issue since the 16-bit days. Yes, it has cut back on the number of small developers, but it hasn't killed the indsutry yet, despite the prediction with each new gen of consoles. It's mostly an excuse, I suspect, for charging more for games and to cover for poor games ("It was too expensive to do what we wanted to...").
 
[quote name='poe']Came up on another forum I frequent. My post copied:

In November, when Sony's patent was announced, the exact same rhetoric flew around. I think if these "retail contacts" were credible, we would have heard of something along the lines of litigation against Sony by now.

Furthermore, if this were true, it would render the software useless if extensive repairs were made to the console (probably a hard drive replacement would run afoul of this), a replacement console were purchased, or backward compatibility were desired with a hypothetical Playstation 4. Would Sony or any company want that much additional technical support to be required for those scenarios?[/QUOTE]

That's assuming they use a technical solution. They could just do what they tried with used CDs: going after the retailer. Sure, it would seriously wound EB/Gamestop, but if the alternative is Sony unwilling to ship them new product, they'd have to play ball. I find that much more plausible than a software lockout, though I'd like to think that Sony would learn from past difficulties in this area. Then again, they still can't launch a format to save their lives after decades of trying and failing, so who knows?
 
Don't worry guys, there there will always be a way Wii can still get quality games for cheap.:D
 
[quote name='trq']That's assuming they use a technical solution. They could just do what they tried with used CDs: going after the retailer. Sure, it would seriously wound EB/Gamestop, but if the alternative is Sony unwilling to ship them new product, they'd have to play ball. I find that much more plausible than a software lockout, though I'd like to think that Sony would learn from past difficulties in this area. Then again, they still can't launch a format to save their lives after decades of trying and failing, so who knows?[/QUOTE]
It would not be unprecedented for EB/GS to simply not carry new Sony products, KB Toys stopped carrying Sega products when the Saturn launched because they weren't getting units right away. That went on for many years. EB/GS could then carry only used Sony products. The retailers have leverage... You don't want to piss off the retailers.
 
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