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FriskyTanuki

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CrepeNuts said:
It just bugs me that PSNow is pretty much the sole reason/excuse that Sony chooses to not offer backwards compatibility. They made such a mistake buying Gaikai.
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Never thought about it like that but that makes perfect sense. I can understand from a long term standpoint that it's so much more technically efficient but because I actually like have the images in my games rendered at a good quality and with little latency I can't imagine how many years it's going to take before you can't tell the difference between local and streamed content.

 
I don't think that's the reason at all. It's really the PS3 Cell processor that's the main issue. They'd have an easier time making Xbox 360 games work on the PS4 than PS3 games.

 
CrepeNuts said:
It just bugs me that PSNow is pretty much the sole reason/excuse that Sony chooses to not offer backwards compatibility. They made such a mistake buying Gaikai.
Click to expand...
That's not why we don't have BC, though. That doesn't even make sense. We don't have PS3 BC because of Cell architectures. I don't even think PSNow has PS1 or PS2 games.

PSNow is not an 'answer' for BC. They've never sold it as that. They've sold it as an answer for people who don't own those consoles and want to play those games, which is very different from BC.

I don't even understand how you arrived at PSNow as being their reason or excuse, let alone their only one.

The reason, generally speaking, is licensing. Licensing is hell, and license owners don't like to give up 'forever' rights to something, which means Sony would likely need to relicense every game on PSN for usage on PS4. Instead, they choose to issue new versions on a slower basis with trophies and upscaling, because their market research told them people liked the idea of getting trophies.

It's an ugly mess, sure, but don't put the blame on PSNow. They aren't keeping games from you so you will subscribe to PSNow.

 
elessar123 said:
I don't think that's the reason at all. It's really the PS3 Cell processor that's the main issue. They'd have an easier time making Xbox 360 games work on the PS4 than PS3 games.
Click to expand...
It 100% is. They could operate just like the 360 games on Xbone. Put the disc in to verify the license and have a digital download of the game. Gaikai/PS Now is definitely the reason we don't have any form of BC.
 
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Lord Chabelo said:
Thanks for the info. Lesson learned; buy former PS+ games on sale BEFORE using up a PS+ code to get a bigger discount.
Click to expand...
Like Chris said, try Support (chat should be fine). Just say you want a revoke so you can give Sony money for them and I imagine they'd be more than happy to do so. It's not like it's a refund that involves giving you back money.
 
CrepeNuts said:
It 100% is. They could operate just like the 360 games on Xbone. Put the disc in to verify the license and have a digital download of the game. Gaikai/PS Now is definitely the reason we don't have any form of BC.
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand how computer architecture works.

 
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CrepeNuts said:
It 100% is. They could operate just like the 360 games on Xbone. Put the disc in to verify the license and have a digital download of the game. Gaikai/PS Now is definitely the reason we don't have any form of BC.
Click to expand...
And how is that digital download of a PS3 game going to run on your PS4?

I can understand being passionate about something but you have zero clue on what you are talking about.

 
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If Sony wasn't a runaway market leader right now, you might see some sort of "backwards compatible solution" from them.  I'm not saying it would be what anyone thinks of as ideal, but the reason there is no BC on PS4 is because Sony doesn't feel the need to.  Why couldn't you put in your PS3 disc and play that title using PSNow?  Or why couldn't Sony match up your digital purchase history with the PSNow library and give you those titles as free unlimited rentals?  I'm not saying a lot of people want to do that, but that seems like something Sony could offer if they felt like they needed to complete.

 
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CrepeNuts said:
It 100% is. They could operate just like the 360 games on Xbone. Put the disc in to verify the license and have a digital download of the game. Gaikai/PS Now is definitely the reason we don't have any form of BC.
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Sorry, but...

giphy.gif


 
I guarantee you the current promo for PSNow is so they can compete with Xbox Game Pass.

Does the $10/month let you play whatever you want from the 500 titles?
 
WNYX585AM said:
If Sony wasn't a runaway market leader right now, you might see some sort of "backwards compatible solution" from them. I'm not saying it would be what anyone thinks of as ideal, but the reason there is no BC on PS4 is because Sony doesn't feel the need to. Why couldn't you put in your PS3 disc and play that title using PSNow? Or why couldn't Sony match up your digital purchase history with the PSNow library and give you those titles as free unlimited rentals? I'm not saying a lot of people want to do that, but that seems like something Sony could offer if they felt like they needed to complete.
Click to expand...
Because that would be a really bad use of the servers with nobody paying for them that would just hemorrhage money until it's shut down. They kick you off of the servers if you're paused for more than a few minutes in the sub/rental service, so where would the compensation be for the servers for these free, unlimited rentals for the rest of time? Why would you not want a completely different solution that is native to the PS4, similar to how Cross Buy works for PS3 and Vita games? Just saying "Do this obvious thing!" doesn't make it a reasonable solution that's easy to do.

 
I get the PS3 cell architecture is this big problem but it hasn't stopped a wide variety of PS3 ports from coming out, some with limited appeal, and many of which that could never have been justified with a substantial porting effort if there wasn't a solid business. I'd imagine in some cases they literally are going with PC builds that use the DirectX translation that the PS4 GPU supports and brute forcing the port but it doesn't change the underlying fact that many of these ports were probably greenlit with limited profit margins in mind. PSnow may not be the only reason that some of games haven't been ported but I bet it's certainly one of them.

 
Fatbot3 said:
I get the PS3 cell architecture is this big problem but it hasn't stopped a wide variety of PS3 ports from coming out, some with limited appeal, and many of which that could never have been justified with a substantial porting effort if there wasn't a solid business. I'd imagine in some cases they literally are going with PC builds that use the DirectX translation that the PS4 GPU supports and brute forcing the port but it doesn't change the underlying fact that many of these ports were probably greenlit with limited profit margins in mind. PSnow may not be the only reason that some of games haven't been ported but I bet it's certainly one of them.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between a port of one, two, or three games to other platforms and emulating an entire console architecture on a new console, especially one that is well-known for being hard to work with even amongst Sony studios.

I get that you guys think you have the easy solution, but just saying "Do this easy thing" doesn't make it easy to do.

 
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we dont have backwards compatibilty on PS4 because of the cell processor yes but mostly because at this point it really wouldnt sell many more consoles to cover the cost. While people like myself and hardcore gamers would like the feature i doubt i would buy any new games for it and i already have a ps3 with a ton of games on it. So although i think the feature would be awesome in my case and any most others i assume it would be a revenue negitive for sony. 

 
filldoh1 said:
we dont have backwards compatibilty on PS4 because of the cell processor yes but mostly because at this point it really wouldnt sell many more consoles to cover the cost. While people like myself and hardcore gamers would like the feature i doubt i would buy any new games for it and i already have a ps3 with a ton of games on it. So although i think the feature would be awesome in my case and any most others i assume it would be a revenue negitive for sony.
Click to expand...
People buy tons of Cross Buy games because they can play it on either PS4, PS3, or Vita, so I'd imagine the same would be true for BC stuff. No reason to knock the idea for the assumption that nobody wants/uses it. Cross Buy proves that wrong.

 
FriskyTanuki said:
Because that would be a really bad use of the servers with nobody paying for them that would just hemorrhage money until it's shut down. They kick you off of the servers if you're paused for more than a few minutes in the sub/rental service, so where would the compensation be for the servers for these free, unlimited rentals for the rest of time? Why would you not want a completely different solution that is native to the PS4, similar to how Cross Buy works for PS3 and Vita games? Just saying "Do this obvious thing!" doesn't make it a reasonable solution that's easy to do.
Click to expand...
You're correct. I never said it was a good idea. I only floated it as one idea of a quick simple solution to compete with Xbox BC if Sony really wanted to provide a solution to its customers. Of course consumers would want a better solution, but PSNow free streaming would be better than nothing to a lot of people. The issue is that Sony doesn't need to compete with Microsoft and probably doesn't care to compete on this feature and so it doesn't need to lose money on this poor idea or search for other better solutions.

As for feeling bad about Sony losing money on it's PSNow servers, that's not really our problem as consumers. They made an investment which appears to have been a poor one. I wish them well, but it most likely won't work out for them, so whether they lose money using it as a backwards compatible solution or just another separate service like they are now may not make much difference overall. Perhaps they would even come out ahead if they used it dually for BC since people might perhaps take more notice of the service.

 
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FriskyTanuki said:
People buy tons of Cross Buy games because they can play it on either PS4, PS3, or Vita, so I'd imagine the same would be true for BC stuff. No reason to knock the idea for the assumption that nobody wants/uses it. Cross Buy proves that wrong.
Click to expand...
Cross buy is a big plus for me personally. If the game is cross buy its usually a guaranteed full purchase price buy. I would pay another 10-20 more if games were crossbuy. I'm all digital so it's a biggie for me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
WNYX585AM said:
You're correct. I never said it was a good idea. I only floated it as one idea of a quick simple solution to compete with Xbox BC if Sony really wanted to provide a solution to its customers. Of course consumers would want a better solution, but PSNow free streaming would be better than nothing to a lot of people. The issue is that Sony doesn't need to compete with Microsoft and probably doesn't care to compete on this feature and so it doesn't need to lose money on this poor idea or search for other better solutions.

As for feeling bad about Sony losing money on it's PSNow servers, that's not really our problem as consumers. They made an investment which appears to have been a poor one. I wish them well, but it most likely won't work out for them, so whether they lose money using it as a backwards compatible solution or just another separate service like they are now may not make much difference overall. Perhaps they would even come out ahead if they used it dually for BC since people might perhaps take more notice of the service.
Click to expand...
Then I guess we're done here if you're only going to suggest bad ideas. There's no point having a discussion when it's done in bad faith.

 
If I sign up for the PS NOW promo at $9.99 per month, I'm assuming I'll be charged next month and so on for $9.99 per month? Thinking of using PS Now for about 3 months (July $9.99, August $9.99, September $9.99). 

 
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FriskyTanuki said:
Then I guess we're done here if you're only going to suggest bad ideas. There's no point having a discussion when it's done in bad faith.
Click to expand...
Saying something is not a good idea and saying something is a bad idea are two very different things. Your response is quite a clever (albeit basic) argument technique to shut down a discussion.

There's no "bad faith" here. You indicated that Sony can't offer BC due to the PS3 architecture. I was offering a response to that statement that Sony definitely could - if they really wanted to. Simply because an "easy" solution of PSNow isn't as good as Xbox does not automatically make it bad. It is infinitely better than Sony's current backwards compatibility solution, so some people would find that very appealing.

 
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WNYX585AM said:
Saying something is not a good idea and saying something is a bad idea are two very different things. Your response is quite a clever (albeit basic) argument technique to shut down a discussion.

There's no "bad faith" here. You indicated that Sony can't offer BC due to the PS3 architecture. I was offering a response to that statement that Sony definitely could - if they really wanted to. Simply because an "easy" solution of PSNow isn't as good as Xbox does not automatically make it bad. It is infinitely better than Sony's current backwards compatibility solution, so some people would find that very appealing.
Click to expand...
Except that your reasoning for your idea of letting everybody use PlayStation Now servers for free because BC is only available through it is "that's [how it's funded] not really our problem as consumers." That's not how any business works, even companies like Microsoft with tons of money they could waste if they wanted. That's why the PS4, Xbox One, and Switch cost what they're charging and not $100 less because it's bad business despite a cheaper price being more ideal for the end consumer. It's hard to have a discussion on more informed solutions if you can easily sweep away issues and criticism with "we don't have to care since we're consumers" or "Sony's in first place, so they don't care." Balking at every fair criticism of your idea shows no interest in discussing it, so there's no need to try to continue it.

 
FYI, not a digital deal, but Toukiden 2 for PS4 is $29.99 at GS, but much higher everywhere else. Grab it while you can at a decent price (most will probably be gutted, but you might find one sealed).
 
FriskyTanuki said:
There's a difference between a port of one, two, or three games to other platforms and emulating an entire console architecture on a new console, especially one that is well-known for being hard to work with even amongst Sony studios.

I get that you guys think you have the easy solution, but just saying "Do this easy thing" doesn't make it easy to do.
Click to expand...
True, I guess I was conflating emulation and porting in the last comment. That said, what I was reading from the comment and something I've personally witnessed in these content models is that a publisher would often rather risk nothing and make 3% from streaming than spend 50k on a port and create a substantially better experience for the player.

 
Searched the forum and noticed people started getting their $15 credit from Sony from the recent spend $100 promo. Haven't received mine yet. 

Bought during the promo:

1-yr PSN + sub

Uncharted 4

Dying Light: The Following - Enhanced Edition

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Expansion Pass

= $107.19

Any advice on what I should do to get my $15 code? 

 
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illatwill said:
Searched the forum and noticed people started getting their $15 credit from Sony from the recent spend $100 promo. Haven't received mine yet.

Bought during the promo:
1-yr PSN + sub
Uncharted 4
Dying Light: The Following - Enhanced Edition
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Expansion Pass

= $107.19

Any advice on what I should do to get my $15 code?
Click to expand...
Not sure if you've done this promo before, but it comes via notification through your PS4 and not in an email. Some people don't turn their system on every day and think it comes via email so I just wanted to make sure you knew that. If you did know that they do seem to go out in waves so I wouldn't worry too much yet.
 
chriscolbert said:
Not sure if you've done this promo before, but it comes via notification through your PS4 and not in an email. Some people don't turn their system on every day and think it comes via email so I just wanted to make sure you knew that. If you did know that they do seem to go out in waves so I wouldn't worry too much yet.
Click to expand...
If you have a smart phone with PSN app on it (android?) then login to the app and you should see a notification. That's how I got mine.

 
FriskyTanuki said:
https://blog.us.playstation.com/2017/07/06/destiny-2-open-beta-starts-early-on-ps4-start-playing-july-18/

Destiny 2's Open Beta for pre-orders starts on 7/18 and lets you try out the game's first mission, a strike, two crucible modes, and the three new subclasses that have been shown. They're also opening up The Farm social area for an hour on 7/23 starting at 10 AM PT/ 1 PM ET.
Click to expand...
I don't know if I want to get involved with this time-sinking life-thief of a game. Thanks for the info!

 
CrepeNuts said:
It 100% is. They could operate just like the 360 games on Xbone. Put the disc in to verify the license and have a digital download of the game. Gaikai/PS Now is definitely the reason we don't have any form of BC.
Click to expand...
Just stop. You have no f'ing clue how it works. You can't just 'download' a PS3 PSN file and have it work on a PS4.

If you're going to be ignorant about a subject, then at least have the common courtesy to be ignorant in silence.

 
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WNYX585AM said:
If Sony wasn't a runaway market leader right now, you might see some sort of "backwards compatible solution" from them. I'm not saying it would be what anyone thinks of as ideal, but the reason there is no BC on PS4 is because Sony doesn't feel the need to. Why couldn't you put in your PS3 disc and play that title using PSNow? Or why couldn't Sony match up your digital purchase history with the PSNow library and give you those titles as free unlimited rentals? I'm not saying a lot of people want to do that, but that seems like something Sony could offer if they felt like they needed to complete.
Click to expand...
Because PSNow is a -streaming- service. It costs them money to host your game. And not only that, they need to pay the publisher. If people could just buy used games and stream them for free, they would piss away money.

Sony [rightly] assumes if you have PS3 discs, then you have a PS3. And if you don't? Well, why should they be hosting and streaming and paying the publisher for you? It makes no business sense. It's almost like if Netflix allowed people to insert dvds and blurays and let you stream for free... pointless.

PSNow isn't and never has been for BC. It's a streaming service, for those that need a streaming service [pc owners, hotel rooms, etc]. It's a way to play PS3 games without a PS3... which is -not- the same thing as BC.

 
chriscolbert said:
Not sure if you've done this promo before, but it comes via notification through your PS4 and not in an email. Some people don't turn their system on every day and think it comes via email so I just wanted to make sure you knew that. If you did know that they do seem to go out in waves so I wouldn't worry too much yet.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've done this promo just about every time since they started running it on PS3. You're right, it comes via notifications or by email and both had happened to me in the past. I was just curious because I didn't see many discussing it, maybe because people just redeem it right away.

I turn on my PS4 daily and usually get $15 back the first day Sony starts sending it out. I agree it seems to come in waves, I guess if I don't see anything a couple days before the 18th then I'll try contacting Sony. Maybe I'm being impatient. Thanks for your reply however.

KurishiaMarurade said:
If you have a smart phone with PSN app on it (android?) then login to the app and you should see a notification. That's how I got mine.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have the app and have received it this way as well. Weird how I haven't received nothing yet.

 
affa said:
Just stop. You have no f'ing clue how it works. You can't just 'download' a PS3 PSN file and have it work on a PS4.

If you're going to be ignorant about a subject, then at least have the common courtesy to be ignorant in silence.
Click to expand...
Congrats on bringing up a dead topic just to be a dick. Conversation was over.
 
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