Redskins Respond to Fan Woes with Heavy Hand (and Lawsuits)

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It would be hard to find a more loyal fan of the Washington Redskins than real estate agent Pat Hill. She's had season tickets since the early 1960s, when her daughter danced in the halftime shows at the old D.C. Stadium, before it was renamed in memory of Robert F. Kennedy.
Now, Hill says, her beloved Redskins are forcing her into bankruptcy.
Last year, Hill's real estate sales were hit hard by the housing market crash, and she told the team that she could no longer afford her $5,300-a-year contract for two loge seats behind the end zone. Hill said she asked the Redskins to waive her contract for a year or two.
The sales office declined.
On Oct. 8, the Redskins sued Hill in Prince George's County Circuit Court for backing out of a 10-year ticket-renewal agreement after the first year. The team sought payment for every season through 2017, plus interest, attorneys' fees and court costs.
Hill couldn't afford a lawyer. She did not fight the lawsuit or even respond to it because, she said, she believes that the Bible says that it is morally wrong not to pay your debts. The team won a default judgment of $66,364.
"It really breaks my heart," Hill said, her voice cracking as the tears well and spill. "I don't even believe in bankruptcy.
"We are supposed to pay our bills. I ain't trying to get out of anything."
Hill is one of 125 season ticket holders who asked to be released from multiyear contracts and were sued by the Redskins in the past five years. The Washington Post interviewed about two dozen of them. Most said that they were victims of the economic downturn, having lost a job or experiencing some other financial hardship.
Redskins General Counsel David Donovan said the lawsuits are a last resort that involve a small percentage of the team's 20,000 annual premium seat contracts. He added that the team has accommodated people in hard-luck circumstances hundreds of times. He said he was unaware of Pat Hill's case.
...
Many of the sued fans who were interviewed by The Post said that when they requested relief, they were offered settlements that required them to make hefty payments over time.
...
Donovan said other teams sue their fans. "I don't know of any pro football team that doesn't," he said.
But spokesmen for the following National Football League teams said they do not sue their fans over season ticket contracts: Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals, Green Bay Packers, Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Giants and Jets, Seattle Seahawks and Tennessee Titans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...9/02/AR2009090203887.html?sid=ST2009090403219

Now - the lady certainly isn't too bright. Don't buy things you can't afford, show up to court, etc

But suing a loyal fan of meager means into oblivion? Come on. Heavy-handed stuff like this really grinds my gears.
 
Plus, instead of spending money on lawyers, court fees, etc. to sue the woman, let her out of the contract and sell the season tickets to someone else at what is almost guaranteed to be a higher rate than what she was paying. It takes a special kind of idiot to spend money to hurt the team's reputation instead of using the opportunity to make more money.
 
And this is why I hate Dan Snyder and how he's ruined the team. My team's are the Saints or Giants (before the recent winning, not a fair weather fan.), but I always thought the Redskins were a fun team. I won't even watch their games anymore. Really, the NFL has been pretty shitty during this recession. I'm looking forward to the UFL, though.
 
That is terrible. The Redskins will lose some long term fans over this. I don't have a lot of positives to say about the Jaguars right now, but at least at the end of the article they are listed as one of the good guys that don't sue fans.

Just resale her tickets. I hope the Redskins stay in the cellar after this.
 
lol the bible says its bad to not pay off your debt. Is that in the same chapter where it states its ok to waste thousands of shekels for a sporting event while poverty and starvation are rampant? What a stupid person.
 
She signed a contract, sure its easy to make the big bad richy rich sports the villain but at the end of the day they are running a business. If they suddenly had everyone back out of their tickets with no penalty and they aren't able to backfill those season tickets they're gonna be in deep trouble financially.

She's not a victim, she made a foolish decision and now she has to pay the penalty for it. Good for the Redskins for holding people accountable to their commitments/contracts.
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers']And this is why I hate Dan Snyder and how he's ruined the team. My team's are the Saints or Giants (before the recent winning, not a fair weather fan.), but I always thought the Redskins were a fun team. I won't even watch their games anymore. Really, the NFL has been pretty shitty during this recession. I'm looking forward to the UFL, though.[/QUOTE]

I have heard nothing but bad things about him, something about tearing out sidewalks so people who parked had to pay to use their tram in the stadium parking lot for example. Since he has gotten involved in Six Flags, a lot of ridiculous policies have started to gouge customers.
 
my two cents


muuwwhhhaaaaaaa hahahahah

How the hell did this lady get rich?????


The bible says you have to pay your bills. I say just party. Jesus turned water to wine for a reason.
 
[quote name='jbuck138']That is terrible. The Redskins will lose some long term fans over this. I don't have a lot of positives to say about the Jaguars right now, but at least at the end of the article they are listed as one of the good guys that don't sue fans.

Just resale her tickets. I hope the Redskins stay in the cellar after this.[/QUOTE]They do resell their tickets but they don't drop the lawsuit.

Read this article a couple of weeks ago, pretty shitty on the Redskins part. I guess now we know part of what makes them the richest NFL franchise.

What's up with the multi-year season ticket packages? Any other teams do this? I know the Niners don't.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']I have heard nothing but bad things about him, something about tearing out sidewalks so people who parked had to pay to use their tram in the stadium parking lot for example. Since he has gotten involved in Six Flags, a lot of ridiculous policies have started to gouge customers.[/QUOTE]

It's true - Dan Snyder also banned tailgate parties and signs in the stadium. The signs were banned because people kept bringing signs imploring him to sell the team.

He really is a little tyrant.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']She signed a contract, sure its easy to make the big bad richy rich sports the villain but at the end of the day they are running a business. If they suddenly had everyone back out of their tickets with no penalty and they aren't able to backfill those season tickets they're gonna be in deep trouble financially.

She's not a victim, she made a foolish decision and now she has to pay the penalty for it. Good for the Redskins for holding people accountable to their commitments/contracts.[/QUOTE]

I can see how she's kind of a stupid person, but I dunno if she made a foolish decision at the time. The recession wasn't under her control. And all of their season ticket holders aren't backing out, and they're essentially suing this woman for money she doesn't have since she tried to temporarily get out of the contract because she couldn't pay for it right now. Are they even going to get anything if she files for bankruptcy?

If the Redskins were in trouble financially they're probably get all kinds of breaks, but they just fuck over fans who temporarily can't pay for seats. I don't see why they wouldn't just try to sell the seats and charge the season ticket holders for whatever they couldn't sell, or the difference if they're sold for less.
 
Well they have to pay Haynesworth that $100 million contract somehow right?

It is a stupid situation, but seeing the Jets on the list of "good guys" was reassuring since I plan on becoming a season ticket holder this friday!
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']She signed a contract, sure its easy to make the big bad richy rich sports the villain but at the end of the day they are running a business. If they suddenly had everyone back out of their tickets with no penalty and they aren't able to backfill those season tickets they're gonna be in deep trouble financially.

She's not a victim, she made a foolish decision and now she has to pay the penalty for it. Good for the Redskins for holding people accountable to their commitments/contracts.[/QUOTE]

True that she signed a contract and she IS responsible, but you would think something like a sports team that depends on the faith and goodwill of the fans and their support (since the 60's seems like good support) they would be a little more forgiving or at least, I dunno work something out instead of huge lawsuit and lawyers fees. And as much as it makes sense business wise, these people obviously remembered their accounting classes, but forgot their PR classes. Squeezing 64k from a season holding fan that obviously can afford it isnt going to earn you any sympathy, and for a team doing as terrible as they are, you would think they could use all the sympathy they could get.

EDIT:

Just to put things into persepective of another local team,
"Nate Ewell, spokesman for the National Hockey League's Washington Capitals, said he could not think of a reason to sue a ticket holder. When a season ticket holder fails to make payments, the team cancels the tickets and resells them."

Sounds fair to me.
 
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[quote name='SpazX']I can see how she's kind of a stupid person, but I dunno if she made a foolish decision at the time. The recession wasn't under her control. And all of their season ticket holders aren't backing out, and they're essentially suing this woman for money she doesn't have since she tried to temporarily get out of the contract because she couldn't pay for it right now. Are they even going to get anything if she files for bankruptcy?

If the Redskins were in trouble financially they're probably get all kinds of breaks, but they just fuck over fans who temporarily can't pay for seats. I don't see why they wouldn't just try to sell the seats and charge the season ticket holders for whatever they couldn't sell, or the difference if they're sold for less.[/QUOTE]

The article stated that there were 125 season ticket holders that wanted to back out of their agreements. You are right about the recession not being under her control BUT she chose not to even show up in court when she was sued for the tickets.

As far as the Redskins selling off the tickets, that's not their responsibility. Is there any reason why she couldn't have found someone to "sublease" her season tickets for a couple seasons? The full article even states that the Redskins themselves have made concessions for people trying to cover their season tickets as long as they have agreed to negotiate:

Donovan said the team has agreed to reduce the number of seats in a contract, waived contracts for a year, shortened contracts and terminated contracts early. Most of the lawsuits are filed after people "simply refuse to negotiate with us. They've been made an offer, but they just said no," he said

On top of all that, if this woman wasn't able to afford a lawyer right now, how would she have been able to afford the $5300 tickets a year or two from now.

Its not like it matters at all anyway, now that this story has hit the news cycle the Redskins will back down and dismiss the judgement or let her off the hook some other way.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']The article stated that there were 125 season ticket holders that wanted to back out of their agreements. You are right about the recession not being under her control BUT she chose not to even show up in court when she was sued for the tickets.[/quote]

125 over 5 years, out of apparently 20,000 season ticket holders. Even if every one of them paid $60k that's $1.5 million a year, not very much to the Redskins. But the article says that they've sued the 125 for a total of $3.6 million and have gotten $2 million. Over 5 years that's probably less than 1% of their profits, much less their revenue, and they're suing for money for years in the future for tickets they'll probably resell.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']As far as the Redskins selling off the tickets, that's not their responsibility. Is there any reason why she couldn't have found someone to "sublease" her season tickets for a couple seasons? The full article even states that the Redskins themselves have made concessions for people trying to cover their season tickets as long as they have agreed to negotiate[/quote]

Was that an option for her? I dunno, did they sue her right after she called them up?

And so they say they negotiate, the Donovan dude said for every 1 they sue they negotiate for maybe "half a dozen". He also said they only sue as a last resort, but that doesn't seem so from the article. She said she wanted to temporarily get out of the contract, one of the things they list that they've done, but apparently they sued her.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']On top of all that, if this woman wasn't able to afford a lawyer right now, how would she have been able to afford the $5300 tickets a year or two from now.[/quote]

I dunno, she's in real estate, they would've sold her seats anyway and if they only made her pay the difference for 2 years she might not need to file for bankruptcy.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']Its not like it matters at all anyway, now that this story has hit the news cycle the Redskins will back down and dismiss the judgement or let her off the hook some other way.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully, then it was good for something.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Its not like it matters at all anyway, now that this story has hit the news cycle the Redskins will back down and dismiss the judgement or let her off the hook some other way.[/QUOTE]

I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. If you google "Dan Snyder" you'll see the man is tone-deaf to any sort of PR issue.

It's a darn shame it comes to this, by their monopolistic nature professional sports teams make a guaranteed bundle of money. All coporations should act like good corporate citizens but sports teams have a special obligation to spread goodwill and give back to the community. Suing a loyal fan into bankruptcy during an economic recession just doesn't seem right, to put it mildly.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Ok, I was on her side until I saw this malarkey.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='homeland']lol the bible says its bad to not pay off your debt. Is that in the same chapter where it states its ok to waste thousands of shekels for a sporting event while poverty and starvation are rampant? What a stupid person.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Mr_hockey66']The bible says you have to pay your bills. I say just party. Jesus turned water to wine for a reason.[/QUOTE]

I'm amused at the furor evoked by someone predicating an utterly benign belief on "the Bible."

Would you guys feel the same way if she said she felt an irreligious moral imperative to pay her debts? If so, what's wrong with that? Isn't it a fairly bedrock social and legal principle that people should be accountable for their promises?

If not, your bias is laughable.
 
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