Religulous -Bill Mahr's new religion shredding documentary

[quote name='Unickuta']What I think is that at best I'm a member of faith that will bring me into the afterlife and that I'm part of something greater than myself. At worst, I'm following the ideals of a man who had a good heart and had some pretty groundbreaking ideas of how to live your life and treat other people well.[/quote]

Well, he did have groundbreaking ideals all right. Among others...

Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine.
- Jesus
Matthew 10:34
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Yet when L Ron Hubbard does this all of a sudden it's a bad thing :lol:
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Yeah, I remember the thread, just not specifics of anything that you said in it.[/quote]

Oh, well...read up....there'll be a test....in the afterlife.
 
[quote name='camoor']I think you're confusing many viewpoints.

I believe you probably were truly refering to "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". It's not Satanic because it's not said in a Judeo-Christian context.

This is different from "An it harm none do what ye will." which is Wicca (AFAIK the closest philosophy to what you say above) or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" which is supposed to be Christianity.[/quote]

[quote name='dmaul1114']Not to mention, people can hold views of "Do whatever you want, as long as no one gets hurt" etc. without having any belief in any higher power--be it god, satan, buddah or whatever.
[/quote]

yeah, i did get it confused.

My understanding of it all was this: When you have a self-serving philosophy, you are in a way still serving Satan, either knowingly or unknowingly.

---

I heard that from one of those "Purpose-Driven Church" pastors. From what he explained, the purpose driven philosophy is to perform actions according to "God's will" & follow the examples of Jesus in the bible. And when you don't do that, you are honoring evil, doing evil's will.

---

But I talked to another pastor, who described to me the dangers of that "purpose-driven" mindset. The problem is, who do you let define what is "God's will" ? The bible or the pastor?

He described, how in the hands of a misled pastor, the bible can be taken out of context and used to manipulate folks into actions that are not "God's will"

And from my understanding, that's how you wind up with a misled Christian like Sarah Palin.

As far as my whole Satanism rant goes, just forget about it. My whole point was, GW is not a Christian. He worships a different higher being. Remember, Christians don't lay in coffins naked, Christians don't engage in homo-erotic activities in the White House after hours, Christians don't join secret societies like Skull & Bones... Point is, GW has done all that stuff. It's documented (Washington Times, 1989). GW is far, very faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar, from being labeled merely a "misled Christian." or "Christian fundamentalist"

---

Anyways, I wonder if the film will mention pastor Jeremiah Wright?
 
[quote name='Unickuta']What I think is that at best I'm a member of faith that will bring me into the afterlife and that I'm part of something greater than myself. At worst, I'm following the ideals of a man who had a good heart and had some pretty groundbreaking ideas of how to live your life and treat other people well.
.[/QUOTE]



:applause:
 
Everyone that's well read on the subject knows that anthromorphic causes for catastrophic climate change is not 100% fact. I'm sorry if you don't know that, and I'm sorry my links weren't good enough. Anyone that believes it is 100% fact is a tool. If you were open minded enough, you'd find dozens of scientists and scholars that also know this through google. But I won't bother spending so much time trying to research anything for you anymore, since you admit you can't finish my posts, what's the point? I'll be surprised if you made it this far.
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This is why I stop reading your posts and why I stopped reading this ones. You as I said not only make assumptions of me and what I believe......but do so to the extreme. I have never once said that its a 100% prooven fact. In fact I believe iv stated numerous times that global warming is something that isnt prooven but that your sources were just jokes(which is another reason why I tend to let most of what you say go, because you ignore stuff like this in order to keep an argument going). Im an agnostic by nature and not just when it comes to religion. I take an agnostic approach to everything questioning things and not accepting them as true unless not only is knowledge of the issue overwhelming but its also within my grasp. Not just global warming but many other things like evolution I believe are not 100% proven and there is still a debate to be had. However at the same time I believe that most of the science is in the favor of these 2 things and that 95% of what iv read thats against it is a joke so it probably either is true or some altered form of the theory probably(again thats a key word!)is true. Im open to debate, and I am always interested in reading on the other sides views........just not from stupid links like the ones you use.

level1online what you dont seem to realize is your still just following other peoples words and advice not your own. Why not drop the bible and the Christian thing and simply live your life to the best of your abilty. Do good things for others, be kind(rewind!)and live your life in the most Christ like way possible. If you die and there is a God and he punishes you for not believing in him or following his ways after living a life like that then that God isnt worth believing in anyways(hell a God like that you should spit at his feet).

Unickuta I dont think we will agree on alot, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and are willing to see the faults of your church and religion while at the same time paving your own path. While I do feel this is cherry picking I can respect your views here and that as I said you seem to have a good head on your shoulders that your actually using, so I can easily respect your views.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Ummmmmmm try again. I am not saying its childish because its not what I believe in. I am saying its childish and easy to see through because the bible itself is so full of holes, contradictions and has been mistranslated and re translated so many damn times that it holds no credibility anymore. As I said im agnostic so I don't claim to have any of the answers and frankly I don't give a damn if someone believes something other then what I do. My problem again is with those that claim to know the answers and if you claim it because of something as disprooven as the bible then your a fucking moron. I mean for Christs sake Christians dont even celebrate Christmas in the right month......worse yet most of them really believe its Christs birthday when reality is that historians and scholars have shown not only that he was born on a different day but also that Christmas was moved to fall in line with the Pagan Winter Solstices to try and draw people away.

As for thinking religion is responsible for all the worlds ills. Again read my posts.....people keep taking my posts to the utmost extremes and ignoring other things iv said. I dont feel its responsible for all the worlds ills. However I do think it claims a very large share of them. There have been wars that had nothing to do with religion(for instance i cant think of how religion played a role in Vietnam) and wars that had little to do with religion. There are mass killings by men with no religion such as Ted Bundy and there are natural disasters and all sorts of other ills. I just feel that Religion takes up a very large portion of the blame for mans ills and it also tends to just be for the ignorant by and large.[/quote]
1. I agree with you on the Christmas thing. Christmas is pretty much a commercial thing nowadays.

2. The bible has been translated and re-translated, but the book is supposed to be a collection of stories and lessons to help guide people through life, not to be taken literally.

3. I still disagree with the notion of Religion being the blame for "most" of the bad stuff. Mainly because religion (or at least most of them) have nothing in there about being corrupt or causing damage to the environment or your fellow man. It's simply evil douchbags misusing religion. But rest assured, if religion were gone they'd find something else to misuse.

4. Religion isn't simply for the ignorant. Even Bill Maher acknowledged that in an interview with CNN. He said there were plenty of intelligent people who are religious. I think that stating that it's just something ignorant people do, is an ignorant statement.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']1. I agree with you on the Christmas thing. Christmas is pretty much a commercial thing nowadays.

2. The bible has been translated and re-translated, but the book is supposed to be a collection of stories and lessons to help guide people through life, not to be taken literally.

3. I still disagree with the notion of Religion being the blame for "most" of the bad stuff. Mainly because religion (or at least most of them) have nothing in there about being corrupt or causing damage to the environment or your fellow man. It's simply evil douchbags misusing religion. But rest assured, if religion were gone they'd find something else to misuse.

4. Religion isn't simply for the ignorant. Even Bill Maher acknowledged that in an interview with CNN. He said there were plenty of intelligent people who are religious. I think that stating that it's just something ignorant people do, is an ignorant statement.[/QUOTE]

1. And again not even in the right fucking season.

2. Disagree and agree. I agree that it is a book of stories that shouldnt be taken literally. But the problem is that that is ignoring the fact that most Christians DO take it literally. If people read the bible like Harry Potter thinking wow this is interesting and id like to be a better person like this guy that would be all fine and true. But people dont, they instead act as though Harry Potter was a real person who walked around smiting evil. Ummm excuse me they act like Jesus was.

3. True but the evil duesches use Religion as a tool to control weak minded men. You can argue all you want that if religion wasn't around they would find another way to do it. But it doesnt change that those following religion are easily susceptible and do stupid shit in the name of their religion with or without the guiding of evil men. Try to otherwise explain away things that have been done to gays or those seeking abortion. These are common people and so are their leaders.

4. True. But religion turns the enlightened into fools largely. Again look at the clip I showed earlier....that woman seemed like a perfectly intelligent person....yet she couldn't even see how it could be considered condescending to imply that you have an answer someone else doesn't. This problem arises time and again with even the most brilliant of people who follow religion. They speak eloquently and understand some of the most complex things in the world.....yet turn into Cherry pickers and stutters when they try and explain their beliefs because they know they are illogical. A belief in a God is not logical or illogical, but a belief in the current big 3 religions is a joke.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']This is why I stop reading your posts and why I stopped reading this ones. You as I said not only make assumptions of me and what I believe......but do so to the extreme. I have never once said that its a 100% prooven fact. In fact I believe iv stated numerous times that global warming is something that isnt prooven but that your sources were just jokes(which is another reason why I tend to let most of what you say go, because you ignore stuff like this in order to keep an argument going). Im an agnostic by nature and not just when it comes to religion. I take an agnostic approach to everything questioning things and not accepting them as true unless not only is knowledge of the issue overwhelming but its also within my grasp. Not just global warming but many other things like evolution I believe are not 100% proven and there is still a debate to be had. However at the same time I believe that most of the science is in the favor of these 2 things and that 95% of what iv read thats against it is a joke so it probably either is true or some altered form of the theory probably(again thats a key word!)is true. Im open to debate, and I am always interested in reading on the other sides views........just not from stupid links like the ones you use.
[/QUOTE]
That's the problem. From that argument, I recall coming to an agreement about it not being 100% fact, yet you have brought up the ridiculousness of me being a global warming denier several times since, in discussions it has nothing to do with, like some kind of sore bully that can't let go of the past, and never could comprehend that we agreed.

I'm more convinced now than ever. You are either Bill O'reilly's secret love child or all those nail polish fumes are taking their toll.

What I find the real nail in the coffin though: You spend paragraphs and paragraphs deriding an entire segment of society. The biggest segment, in fact; for not being open enough to other ideas. For being close minded. You express your disgust for religious people for believing in stupid things and being unable to listen to others. Well guess what you have just proven you are like? That's two posts (of mine, that we know of) that you don't have the courtesy to read and respond to - out of the exact same elitist, hollier than though, judging, vitriol you hate religion for.

Post pages and pages of your own opinion, but don't have the respect, fortitude, or moral character to read responses or listen to other views. That remind you of anyone? Generally, people like that in society get ignored by anyone important in society, just fyi.

That makes you the biggest hypocrite on these boards, and puts you officially in the same lonesome category as the drive by antagonizer/nothing useful to say Msut77.
 
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[quote name='level1online']yeah, i did get it confused.

My understanding of it all was this: When you have a self-serving philosophy, you are in a way still serving Satan, either knowingly or unknowingly.

---

I heard that from one of those "Purpose-Driven Church" pastors. From what he explained, the purpose driven philosophy is to perform actions according to "God's will" & follow the examples of Jesus in the bible. And when you don't do that, you are honoring evil, doing evil's will.

---

But I talked to another pastor, who described to me the dangers of that "purpose-driven" mindset. The problem is, who do you let define what is "God's will" ? The bible or the pastor?

He described, how in the hands of a misled pastor, the bible can be taken out of context and used to manipulate folks into actions that are not "God's will"

And from my understanding, that's how you wind up with a misled Christian like Sarah Palin.[/quote]

Oh Level1. I expected better of you.

Are you really going to let yourself get brainwashed like that? All that freedom fighter talk, and then we get "But then this one pastor said this. But then the other pastor said that..." Don't be such a sheep.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Semi-joke... sure...[/QUOTE]
Really, it was. The set of circumstances were humorous in how coincidental they were and also how silly and random they were.
BTW, I'm still an Atheist.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I really take no issue with a movie bashing religion. There is a lot to bash. But when I've seen Mahr poking fun of religion in the past, he approaches everything from a very simplistic view that makes him look like a moron. If you are going to make fun of something, at least become educated enough on it to do so.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. You know I have no love for *any* kind of contra-factual thought systems, but Maher just goes after low hanging fruit. It's lazy and it serves no purpose. Every group has its nutjobs, so getting them on film accomplishes little. There are much better ways to thoroughly and systematically point out dangerous foolishness, but that's an undertaking a bit above Maher's intellectual pay-grade. In short: I'll be skipping this one.

[quote name='level1online']How did I know the first thing he would show in that trailer is George W. Bush and his association with Christianity?

I've said it once and I'll say it again, GW is not Christian, he's a Luciferian. He worships, the light-bearer. You judge a man by his actions.

So the question goes, in this film will Bill Maher be interviewing any leaders from the Church of Lucifer or Church of Satan?

Will he mention that at one point in history, the #2 highest selling religious book right behind the bible was the Satanic Bible?

Will he talk about Anton Lavey? Aleister Crowley? Human Sacrifice? Pagan Symbolism? Mystery Religions? etc? etc? etc?[/QUOTE]

C'mon. You can admit it. Just to me. It'll be our secret.
You're a joke account, right?
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']
BTW, I'm still an Atheist.[/quote]
God dammit! Do you know how long it took me to get Daroga to stop capitalizing that "a"?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']God dammit! Do you know how long it took me to get Daroga to stop capitalizing that "a"?[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, I know. And I'm about to reverse all of the work you've done.
 
I don't despise religion.. I despise how it's pushed to the masses.. Also it's not good bedfellows with Science and Politics.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']I don't despise religion.. I despise how it's pushed to the masses.. Also it's not good bedfellows with Science and Politics.[/QUOTE]

To quote Marilyn Manson of all people I never really hated the one true God, but the God of the people I hated.
 
I despise religion when it makes people act like friggin' idiots, one way or the other.
I'm happy that it teaches people how to act sensibly in the fabric of society and at home.

I wonder if Maher preached the story of how the Mormons came to be, just like he did with the Scientology stuff.
 
[quote name='detectiveconan16']I wonder if Maher preached the story of how the Mormons came to be, just like he did with the Scientology stuff.[/quote]

Why wouldn't he? They are both juicy targets.
 
[quote name='camoor']Oh Level1. I expected better of you.

Are you really going to let yourself get brainwashed like that? All that freedom fighter talk, and then we get "But then this one pastor said this. But then the other pastor said that..." Don't be such a sheep.[/quote]

i should have clarified, i never said i was a believer of either philosophy. all i did was extract a bit of information from one guy, then extracted some other information from another guy.

i'll admit, to get that information, i did have to play along.... baaaaaaaaaaaaaah! :D

[quote name='trq']


C'mon. You can admit it. Just to me. It'll be our secret.
You're a joke account, right?
[/quote]

Show me a picture of GW taking communion and i'll admit it.
 
[quote name='trq']
C'mon. You can admit it. Just to me. It'll be our secret.
You're a joke account, right?
[/quote]I consider myself better than most at pointing out trolls and joke accounts, but I swing back-and-forth on Level1. Right now I'm leaning towards joke.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']1. And again not even in the right fucking season.

2. Disagree and agree. I agree that it is a book of stories that shouldnt be taken literally. But the problem is that that is ignoring the fact that most Christians DO take it literally. If people read the bible like Harry Potter thinking wow this is interesting and id like to be a better person like this guy that would be all fine and true. But people dont, they instead act as though Harry Potter was a real person who walked around smiting evil. Ummm excuse me they act like Jesus was.

3. True but the evil duesches use Religion as a tool to control weak minded men. You can argue all you want that if religion wasn't around they would find another way to do it. But it doesnt change that those following religion are easily susceptible and do stupid shit in the name of their religion with or without the guiding of evil men. Try to otherwise explain away things that have been done to gays or those seeking abortion. These are common people and so are their leaders.

4. True. But religion turns the enlightened into fools largely. Again look at the clip I showed earlier....that woman seemed like a perfectly intelligent person....yet she couldn't even see how it could be considered condescending to imply that you have an answer someone else doesn't. This problem arises time and again with even the most brilliant of people who follow religion. They speak eloquently and understand some of the most complex things in the world.....yet turn into Cherry pickers and stutters when they try and explain their beliefs because they know they are illogical. A belief in a God is not logical or illogical, but a belief in the current big 3 religions is a joke.[/quote]1. Actually, I think there is pretty good archaeological evidence that Jesus was in fact real. This is most likely a debated issue amongst historians (simply because of the subject matter), but at least the guy Jesus isn't a total lie.

2. I think that you should have clarified from the beginning that your problem is with the big 3, not religion in general. If you did, then my bad, It's a bit hard to read some of your longer posts.

3. I don't think it's possible for the susceptible people to do silly things in the name of religion without someone evil pulling the strings, or warping their minds. Again, I'm pretty sure that most religions (including the big 3) are really based around good, not evil.

4. As for the "brilliant" ones you talk about, they mustn't be that smart if all they can do is cherry pick stuff.
 
[quote name='level1online']i should have clarified, i never said i was a believer of either philosophy. all i did was extract a bit of information from one guy, then extracted some other information from another guy.

i'll admit, to get that information, i did have to play along.... baaaaaaaaaaaaaah! :D[/quote]

That's more like it! :D

But what makes you think Pastors have any sort of valid information about the spiritual? I'm just curious, because you have an innate distrust of politicians, but you trust the info from a guy who promises you a fairytale existence after death if you act the way he tells you to.
 
[quote name='camoor']

But what makes you think Pastors have any sort of valid information about the spiritual?[/quote]

9 years of attending Catholic grade school. Our pastor was a very humble Irish fellow, had no car, lived in a small house on campus, & had no problem performing religious services for free.

edit: He had taken a vow of poverty & celibacy because of his beliefs, and he stuck to it. I really admired that. So I guess that's why whenever I meet other pastors, right off the bat, i give them the benefit of the doubt.


[quote name='camoor']
I'm just curious, because you have an innate distrust of politicians[/quote]

The majority of my classmates at that school were gov't worker's or lawyer's children.

Let's just say, the fruit didn't fall too far from the tree.
 
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Well, I saw the movie. I thought it was well researched and it wasn't a movie filled with "WHY DOESN'T GOD KILL THE DEVIL LULZ" but rather legitimate questions in an attempt to show the irrationality in religion.
Of course, by far, I'm no expert in religion, so I went in there hoping to learn-- so I'll just have to trust it was fully researched. If not, I'm sure someone in the VS forum will bring up some points for me to ponder. ;)
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Well, I saw the movie. I thought it was well researched and it wasn't a movie filled with "WHY DOESN'T GOD KILL THE DEVIL LULZ" but rather legitimate questions in an attempt to show the irrationality in religion.
Of course, by far, I'm no expert in religion, so I went in there hoping to learn-- so I'll just have to trust it was fully researched. If not, I'm sure someone in the VS forum will bring up some points for me to ponder. ;)[/QUOTE]

Goona go see American Carol next, I wager?

....got to keep balance in the force, ya know?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Goona go see American Carol next, I wager?

....got to keep balance in the force, ya know?[/QUOTE]
Nono. No.
No.
No. I understand what you're getting at, but no. Some credible source better tell me it's surprisingly well written before I go see that tripe.
 
I saw the movie last night. I thought it was an excellent look at religion in today's world. However, I'm not really here to speak about the movie so much as I am about one scene near the beginning of the movie that stuck with me that really got me thinking.

Warning: minor spoiler and wall o' text ahead

Maher went to this small church in Railegh, NC and was just asking a few of the people at a bible study there why is was they believed what they believed. They couldn't seem to give him an honest answer that he couldn't counter with a logical point. However, at the end the group explained to him that they'd still believe in god and the bible, yet they would not judge him in his beliefs (or lack thereof). Maher then delivered what I feel to be the best line in the movie: "Thank you for being Christ-like and not Christian."

Now for the record let me just say that I am an atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god, or do I believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed in history. However, I feel that the myth of Christ has some merit. Christ lived a very meek existence. He didn't have a permanent place of residence, he didn't have a lot of personal belongings (if any), and he didn't judge people on their vices. To sum it up, I think the character was a pretty upstanding guy.

Now, what do we see in today's world from a lot of Christians? Finger pointing and speaking of people burning in hell for all eternity for having different beliefs from them, nutjobs who use god's name to justify picketing dead soldier's funerals, people emptying out their last few nickels and dimes into the church collection plate while preachers and televangelists ride around in a brand-new Cadillac and dresses in $2000 suits and is adorned from head to toe in jewelry. This sort of behavior is about as un-Christ-like as you can get.

Jesus walked with the people. He didn't float over their heads and look down on them with contempt. Jesus hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and lepers because those were the people who could benefit from his teachings the most. He never said "Thou shalt go forth and hate $$$s/$$$$ers/etc". He said "Love thy neighbor as Thyself". He dressed himself in simple, hunble cloth, and as far as I know, he never asked for so much of a dime from anyone who followed him.

In closing, if there was anything that I learned from the movie is that people (myself included) could all stand to be a little more Christ-like in their lives, because he's a really good exaple of leading by example.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Nono. No.
No.
No. I understand what you're getting at, but no. Some credible source better tell me it's surprisingly well written before I go see that tripe.[/QUOTE]

I tease.

But at least you all but admit one already was far more appealing to you than the other.

Making fun of religion > Making fun of liberals.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']I saw the movie last night. I thought it was an excellent look at religion in today's world. However, I'm not really here to speak about the movie so much as I am about one scene near the beginning of the movie that stuck with me that really got me thinking.

Warning: minor spoiler and wall o' text ahead

Maher went to this small church in Railegh, NC and was just asking a few of the people at a bible study there why is was they believed what they believed. They couldn't seem to give him an honest answer that he couldn't counter with a logical point. However, at the end the group explained to him that they'd still believe in god and the bible, yet they would not judge him in his beliefs (or lack thereof). Maher then delivered what I feel to be the best line in the movie: "Thank you for being Christ-like and not Christian."

Now for the record let me just say that I am an atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god, or do I believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed in history. However, I feel that the myth of Christ has some merit. Christ lived a very meek existence. He didn't have a permanent place of residence, he didn't have a lot of personal belongings (if any), and he didn't judge people on their vices. To sum it up, I think the character was a pretty upstanding guy.

Now, what do we see in today's world from a lot of Christians? Finger pointing and speaking of people burning in hell for all eternity for having different beliefs from them, nutjobs who use god's name to justify picketing dead soldier's funerals, people emptying out their last few nickels and dimes into the church collection plate while preachers and televangelists ride around in a brand-new Cadillac and dresses in $2000 suits and is adorned from head to toe in jewelry. This sort of behavior is about as un-Christ-like as you can get.

Jesus walked with the people. He didn't float over their heads and look down on them with contempt. Jesus hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and lepers because those were the people who could benefit from his teachings the most. He never said "Thou shalt go forth and hate $$$s/$$$$ers/etc". He said "Love thy neighbor as Thyself". He dressed himself in simple, hunble cloth, and as far as I know, he never asked for so much of a dime from anyone who followed him.

In closing, if there was anything that I learned from the movie is that people (myself included) could all stand to be a little more Christ-like in their lives, because he's a really good exaple of leading by example.
[/quote]

Or as Ghandi said:
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I tease.

But at least you all but admit one already was far more appealing to you than the other.

Making fun of religion > Making fun of liberals.[/quote]

Oh come on, that American Carol movie looks like crap.

The Simpsons does a great job of making fun of liberal positions, so does "Bullshit!". If you want to find a movie of that calibur then maybe you're going to end up with half a point to make, but your last few posts have just been contrarian drivel.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']
Maher went to this small church in Railegh, NC and was just asking a few of the people at a bible study there why is was they believed what they believed. They couldn't seem to give him an honest answer that he couldn't counter with a logical point. However, at the end the group explained to him that they'd still believe in god and the bible, yet they would not judge him in his beliefs (or lack thereof). Maher then delivered what I feel to be the best line in the movie: "Thank you for being Christ-like and not Christian."

Now for the record let me just say that I am an atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god, or do I believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed in history. However, I feel that the myth of Christ has some merit. Christ lived a very meek existence. He didn't have a permanent place of residence, he didn't have a lot of personal belongings (if any), and he didn't judge people on their vices. To sum it up, I think the character was a pretty upstanding guy.

Now, what do we see in today's world from a lot of Christians? Finger pointing and speaking of people burning in hell for all eternity for having different beliefs from them, nutjobs who use god's name to justify picketing dead soldier's funerals, people emptying out their last few nickels and dimes into the church collection plate while preachers and televangelists ride around in a brand-new Cadillac and dresses in $2000 suits and is adorned from head to toe in jewelry. This sort of behavior is about as un-Christ-like as you can get.

Jesus walked with the people. He didn't float over their heads and look down on them with contempt. Jesus hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and lepers because those were the people who could benefit from his teachings the most. He never said "Thou shalt go forth and hate $$$s/$$$$ers/etc". He said "Love thy neighbor as Thyself". He dressed himself in simple, hunble cloth, and as far as I know, he never asked for so much of a dime from anyone who followed him.

In closing, if there was anything that I learned from the movie is that people (myself included) could all stand to be a little more Christ-like in their lives, because he's a really good exaple of leading by example.
[/QUOTE]

Wall 'o Text approved. I agree with you.
 
[quote name='camoor']Oh come on, that American Carol movie looks like crap.

The Simpsons does a great job of making fun of liberal positions, so does "Bullshit!". If you want to find a movie of that calibur then maybe you're going to end up with half a point to make, but your last few posts have just been contrarian drivel.[/QUOTE]

So let me get this straight: you thought the religulous trailer looked awesome, and the American Carol one looked like crap? Trailers are about all we have to go on.

At least Zuker has made such classics as Airplane. Now if truly independent critics come out and all say it sucks, then your own "drivel" will have substance.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
At least Zuker has made such classics as Airplane. Now if truly independent critics come out and all say it sucks, then your own "drivel" will have substance.[/QUOTE]
Has made. Has made.
 
I used to consider myself atheist. The more I learn, scientifically, the less confident I am in god's absence. I think "there's no god" and "there's a god" are equally irrational statements.

Life is mind boggling. Even the tiny details, like water expanding before it freezes (and being the only substance to do so) -- isn't that strange? We don't know why water does this, but we know if it didn't life would not exist on our planet. There are countless similar phenomena, simply too numerous to ignore, it's simply too amazing to rule out the possibility of a divine presence.


Even my education in math has made me realize atheism is irrational. Higher dimensions... have you ever read the book Flatland? It has nothing to do with religion -- it's about "picturing" n-dimensional space -- it uses 1D and 2D analogs to reason through how we simply cannot understand 4D+. The way I think of n-dimensional space now is similar to how 2D or 3D graphs are viewed when a dimension is restricted. For example, if you imagine only seeing a 3-space graph as a function of time in two dimensions you'd just see an amorphous 2D curve. If you're viewing a sphere, it'll begin as a dot, increase to a circle with the same radius as the sphere, then go back to a dot. It can be compared between 1D/2D also -- if you view a 2-space curve in 1D as a function of time, it'll just be a dot moving along the path of the curve. You can think of 4-space as a 3-space function of time. Everything we're seeing, as time passes, is really just three dimensions of what's happening in 4-space. There's a lot that must exist, but we aren't aware of it, and have no way to perceive it.

Physics requires higher dimensions. We know for a fact there are at least four dimensions -- many physicists believe there are more. Although I risk sounding like a new-age nut (I hate the movie What The Bleep Do We Know. Hate.) who's to say our 3-dimensional world isn't just an art piece in some 4-dimensional room?

Atheism, to say "there is no god" with any degree of certainty, is irrational... no doubt about it.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Atheism, to say "there is no god" with any degree of certainty, is irrational... no doubt about it.[/QUOTE]
I think doubt is what it's all about. There's a line in the movie where Bill Maher says he is selling doubt. I think that goes hand in hand with what you're saying.
I wouldn't say I have the pomposity to say for certain God isn't real. But I sure have enough doubt not to believe in him.
 
[quote name='Koggit']I used to consider myself atheist. The more I learn, scientifically, the less confident I am in god's absence. I think "there's no god" and "there's a god" are equally irrational statements.

Life is mind boggling. Even the tiny details, like water expanding before it freezes (and being the only substance to do so) -- isn't that strange? We don't know why water does this, but we know if it didn't life would not exist on our planet. There are countless similar phenomena, simply too numerous to ignore, it's simply too amazing to rule out the possibility of a divine presence.


Even my education in math has made me realize atheism is irrational. Higher dimensions... have you ever read the book Flatland? It has nothing to do with religion -- it's about "picturing" n-dimensional space -- it uses 1D and 2D analogs to reason through how we simply cannot understand 4D+. The way I think of n-dimensional space now is similar to how 2D or 3D graphs are viewed when a dimension is restricted. For example, if you imagine only seeing a 3-space graph as a function of time in two dimensions you'd just see an amorphous 2D curve. If you're viewing a sphere, it'll begin as a dot, increase to a circle with the same radius as the sphere, then go back to a dot. It can be compared between 1D/2D also -- if you view a 2-space curve in 1D as a function of time, it'll just be a dot moving along the path of the curve. You can think of 4-space as a 3-space function of time. Everything we're seeing, as time passes, is really just three dimensions of what's happening in 4-space. There's a lot that must exist, but we aren't aware of it, and have no way to perceive it.

Physics requires higher dimensions. We know for a fact there are at least four dimensions -- many physicists believe there are more. Although I risk sounding like a new-age nut (I hate the movie What The Bleep Do We Know. Hate.) who's to say our 3-dimensional world isn't just an art piece in some 4-dimensional room?

Atheism, to say "there is no god" with any degree of certainty, is irrational... no doubt about it.[/quote]
Ah - positive atheism. Yeah, nobody likes those guys. While I lack the statistics to prove it, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they make up, say, 5% of self-declared atheists.
 
But if you define atheism to include people who aren't convinced of god's absence then how do you define agnosticism?

The way I use the words, which may be wrong...

theist = someone who believes there are god(s)
atheist = someone who believes there are no god(s)
agnostic = someone who doesn't form any convictions regarding god(s)
 
[quote name='Koggit']But if you define atheism to include people who aren't convinced of god's absence then how do you define agnosticism?

The way I use the words, which may be wrong...

theist = someone who believes in god(s)
atheist = someone who doesn't believe in god(s)
agnostic = someone who doesn't form any convictions regarding god[/quote]

Oh shit, here comes this conversation again....:p

Agnosticism, the original concept, was meant to mean people who think that you can't know if there is or isn't a god. So it depends on how you define that.

It's all a question of knowledge vs. belief really, that complicates the whole thing. I might go through all the semantics if I get bored, but Crotch can take it from here if he'd like...
 
The atheist may however be, and not unfrequently is, an agnostic. There is an agnostic atheism or atheistic agnosticism, and the combination of atheism with agnosticism which may be so named is not an uncommon one.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of line-blurring. My way might seem a bit complicated, but I try to include as many possible views as I can here.

Theist: "Some sort of deity exists/deities exist!"
Agnostic Theist: "Some sort of deity exists, but really that's totally unprovable and/or I don't know anything about said deity."
AGNOSTIC!: "You don't know fuck all, and none of us do or ever will."
Agnostic: "Maybe, maybe not - but maybe someone else would know?"
Agnostic Atheist: "Possible but really improbable."
Weak/Negative Atheist: "I don't believe in any sort of deity or deities."
Strong/Positive Atheist: "I believe there are no deities."

... and with lots of room for overlap and such. I'd say I'm more-or-less positive with regards to, say, the god Daroga worships (not trying to drag you into this for an epic thread derail, man, just giving examples), but more negative or even agnostically (probably not a real word) atheistic towards an ill-defined "vague creator being".

...

Apatheist: "Does any sort of deity exist? The fuck you asking me for? And who let you in my house? I'm trying to eat dinner here!"

EDIT: How'd I do, Spaz?
 
Saying outright "There is no God", is a safe statement to make by atheists by virtue of the fact that "God" has almost as many definitions as there are people. So when you say that phrase, it really only applies to the person you are talking to - "Your god does not exist".

Anywho, looking at RT for reviews of this movie to see if it would be worth seeing tonight, this one convinced me it wasn't for me:

"It's meant to "prove" that religious belief and intelligence are mutually exclusive. If you believe that, this movie is for you. For everyone else, it's a trifling and shoddy tirade."

I get plenty of that on Cag Vs forum ;), I'll use my $6 to see Apaloosa I think (not enough reviews in about American Carol to judge yet).
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Saying outright "There is no God", is a safe statement to make by atheists by virtue of the fact that "God" has almost as many definitions as there are people. So when you say that phrase, it really only applies to the person you are talking to - "Your god does not exist".[/quote]Yes, that's why I (hope I) said that the positive atheist's position was that there are no deities of any sort, not just no God.
 
Watching the "Atheist vs. Christian" episode of 30 days was a really interesting experience for me, being an agnostic (yes, I'm an indecisive little prick).

It's just no use trying to convince anyone of something when they firmly believe (or have faith) just the opposite.

There's no point in telling a devout Christian that there's no God. They do believe, have believed, and probably will always believe that God exists. It's a fundamental part of their being that they (probably) decided on during their teenage years, and old habits die hard.

It's also pointless to try to convince an atheist that there is a higher being; they will simply not accept that as fact.

Both sides see the other side as "wrong", somehow, as if they know something the other doesn't, and for that reason both sides try to convert each other, which never works.

Both sides then revert to trying to convince themselves that the other side is wrong, which only strengthens their own belief. It's a vicious cycle.


That's why I think Buddhists are the coolest guys of all. They're very open, very tolerant, are completely pacifistic, and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. Those are all ideas I can live with. Buddhists don't try to convert others, and for that reason almost no one would think of trying to convert a Buddhist. And why would anyone want to? They lead such peaceful lives, it would be a shame to disrupt that tranquil existence.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if everyone were Buddhists, we would have much less problems than we do now; it's a shame that in all these religious debates, it inevitably comes down to Christians vs. Atheists - where's the talk about Judaism, or Hinduism?
 
[quote name='zoozilla']Watching the "Atheist vs. Christian" episode of 30 days was a really interesting experience for me, being an agnostic (yes, I'm an indecisive little prick).[/quote]Maybe I can give you a pass 'cause you're sort of using "atheist" as a title there, but please refrain from capitalizing atheist from now on. You don't capitalize "agnostic", do you?
No, you don't.

[quote name='zoozilla'] It's just no use trying to convince anyone of something when they firmly believe (or have faith) just the opposite.[/quote]Generally, if I'm arguing with anyone on this site, it's less to convince them and more for the purpose of making myself better at arguing/for the sake of the lurkers.

[quote name='zoozilla']Both sides see the other side as "wrong", somehow, as if they know something the other doesn't...[/quote]Which isn't necessarily wrong. Maybe one side does know something the other doesn't. Being in between two extremes doesn't make you any more right.

That's why I think Buddhists are the coolest guys of all. They're very open, [quote name='zoozilla']very tolerant, are completely pacifistic, and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. Those are all ideas I can live with. Buddhists don't try to convert others, and for that reason almost no one would think of trying to convert a Buddhist. And why would anyone want to? They lead such peaceful lives, it would be a shame to disrupt that tranquil existence. [/quote]No comment, as I've never met any Buddhists. I've met one guy who claimed to be Buddhist-influenced, but he had a bit too much of an ego for me to take that very seriously. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is... non-existent.

[quote name='zoozilla'] Basically, what I'm saying is, if everyone were Buddhists, we would have much less problems than we do now; it's a shame that in all these religious debates, it inevitably comes down to Christians vs. Atheists - where's the talk about Judaism, or Hinduism?[/quote]Show of hands. Who here's Hindu?

...

And there's that capital "a" again, dammit!
 
[quote name='zoozilla']That's why I think Buddhists are the coolest guys of all. They're very open, very tolerant, are completely pacifistic, and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. Those are all ideas I can live with. Buddhists don't try to convert others, and for that reason almost no one would think of trying to convert a Buddhist. And why would anyone want to? They lead such peaceful lives, it would be a shame to disrupt that tranquil existence.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if everyone were Buddhists, we would have much less problems than we do now; it's a shame that in all these religious debates, it inevitably comes down to Christians vs. Atheists - where's the talk about Judaism, or Hinduism?[/quote]

I completely agree

There is no difficulty in our assuming that these men themselves did not understand clearly what happened to them. The only one who explains his system thoroughly is Buddha, and Buddha is the only one that is not dogmatic. We may also suppose that the others thought it inadvisable to explain too clearly to their followers; St. Paul evidently took this line.
Our best document will therefore be the system of Buddha;but it is so complex that no immediate summary will serve
Click to expand...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/aba1.htm
 
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