Retailers pushing Amazon on Sales Tax

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As many of you are aware, Amazon doesn't charge sales tax in most states. Many retailers, most notably Walmart and Target, are pushing for legislation that would make Amazon charge sales tax on all orders.

Here's the article from the Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704396504576204791377862836.html

Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Target Corp. and other large retailers are ratcheting up a political campaign to force Amazon.com Inc. to collect sales taxes, sensing opportunity in the budget crises gripping statehouses nationwide.

The big-box stores are backing a coalition called the Alliance for Main Street Fairness, which is leading efforts to change sales-tax laws in more than a dozen states including Texas and California.

Stu Woo and Marcelo Prince discuss why major retailers, such as Wal-Mart and Target, are ratcheting up a political campaign to force Amazon to collect sales taxes.


Until now, the group has been largely associated with mom-and-pop stores, spotlighting stories of small toy shops and booksellers who argue Internet merchants that aren't legally required to collect sales taxes enjoy an unfair advantage with shoppers.

Yet the Virginia-based group isn't just working for the little guys. Many of America's largest store chains—including Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy Co., Home Depot Inc. and Sears Holdings Corp.—are involved in the campaign, lobbying legislators and increasingly taking public swipes at Amazon.
"The rules today don't allow brick-and-mortar retailers to compete evenly with online retailers, and that needs to be addressed," said Raul Vazquez, Wal-Mart's executive vice president of global e-commerce.

Amazon has feverishly fought efforts to compel it to collect sales taxes. The Seattle-based online retailer says it complies with the law. Under a 1992 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, only merchants who have a physical presence, such as stores, in a state have to collect sales taxes. Amazon currently gathers those taxes in just five states: Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, its home base of Washington, and New York.

But retailers pushed for passage of a new law in Illinois last week that forces Amazon to collect sales taxes if it employs marketing affiliates in the state—a measure similar to a New York law that retailers want to replicate nationally—and their drumbeat may soon spur federal action.

U.S. Sens. Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, and Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, are considering more direct legislation to force online retailers to collect sales taxes, people familiar with the matter said.

Amazon contends store chains are pushing the laws to siphon away its valuable business partners. "These new tax laws affecting affiliates are supported by the large national retailing chains that covet the affiliate advertising programs of their competitors," Paul Misener, Amazon's vice president of public policy, said in a statement. Amazon's affiliates include blogs and other websites that direct shoppers to Amazon's online store, and collect commissions for sales.


Store chains have been complaining for years that online merchants should collect and remit sales taxes.

But retailers are pressing for change with greater vigor this year, given that the recession accelerated a consumer shift to Internet purchases. And with many states facing big budget shortfalls, politicians are eager to increase revenue without raising taxes. Prodding online retailers to collect the money isn't a new levy, proponents argue, since most consumers are already supposed to pay state use taxes on purchases from online-only merchants.
"We're seeing an increased urgency from states trying to make up for lost revenue," said Laura Bishop, Best Buy's senior director of government relations.

The Alliance for Main Street Fairness was formed last spring. Danny Diaz, a member of Washington political-consulting firm FP1 Strategies, who acts as the Alliance's spokesman, declined to disclose whether the majority of its funding came from large retailers.

"It's fair to say that both large and small businesses are active" in the campaign, he said.

Hours after Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn, a Democrat, signed the Internet sales-tax law last week, Amazon cut ties with its roughly 9,000 Illinois affiliates to avoid collection there. Amazon took similar actions in Hawaii, North Carolina and Rhode Island after those states passed legislation similar to the New York law, which Amazon is challenging in court.

Wal-Mart, Sears and other store chains publicly offered to work with the Amazon affiliates. A group representing the affiliates estimates they paid $18 million to Illinois in the form of income taxes, and are likely to see that amount drop by 25% to 30% this year.

Targeting affiliates is just one of the tactics retailers are supporting to pressure Amazon.

In states including Texas and Arkansas, store chains are also backing legislation that seeks to make clear that Amazon must collect sales taxes if it controls in-state warehouses through related companies.

Amazon last month said it would close a Texas distribution center amid a tax dispute with Republican State Comptroller Susan Combs, who contends that Amazon owes $269 million in uncollected sales tax because of the facility's physical presence in the state.

Texas is facing a projected $4.3 billion deficit this fiscal year.
"In Texas we rely heavily on sales taxes, and if we don't protect ourselves from companies creatively structuring themselves to avoid tax collection, we're going to lose a lot of revenue," said the author of the Texas bill, Republican Rep. John Otto.

In California, which faces a $26.6 billion shortfall, only 1% of consumers pay use tax by voluntarily reporting online purchases on tax forms, and $1.1 billion goes uncollected, according to the state's legislative analyst.
"Amazon is choosing to be a bully" by dropping affiliates instead of collecting taxes, said California Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner, a Democrat who is carrying legislation supported by Wal-Mart and other retail chains, similar to what became law in New York and Illinois.

She said her aim is "to help California's revenue... and to create a level playing field for our businesses."
 
Why wouldn't retailers be pushing this. They're losing sales to Amazon because: 1. Amazon is typically cheaper, tax or not 2. Amazon's CS kicks ass.

Retailers are probably trying to do whatever they can to get customers back in their stores.
 
So because Walmart, Target & other have crappy CS, jack their prices up & losing money due to it, they're forcing this crap on Amazon? How about they try to cut lazy ass employees & actually do competitive pricing and then maybe they'll actually get good sales.
 
B&M retailers are idiots. Rather than lobbying for taxes for Amazon, maybe they should work on lowering their prices. Even if taxes are implemented for Amazon sales, I'll still continue buying from them because even with taxes, its cheaper than the B&M prices before taxes. On top of that I don't need to pay for gas.
 
I'm not gonna argue that Amazon shouldn't be charging sales tax. Its great for us that they dont, but that will change sooner or later.

The thing that these B&M retailers dont understand is that even with sales tax Amazon is still the best deal around. I'm still going to use Amazon even once I have to factor in sales tax.

What got me going in this article is this quote: "The big-box stores are backing a coalition called the Alliance for Main Street Fairness"

Walmart and Home Depot have some real balls to be part of a coalition called 'Main Steet Fairness' when they have systematically driven every smaller chain, and mom and pop store completely out of business with their cutthroat tactics. Go ask any mom & pop store owner on 'Mainstreet' what they think of Walmart.

Now they are getting beaten at their own game by Amazon, and they want to cry? Go cry me a fucking river. :roll:
 
I agree with all above; even with tax I'd still go with Amazon. The major reason being I don't have to deal with dirty stores, idiotic/rude employees and crowds when I shop at Walmart.

Considering the current economy is an "employers market" I really don't understand why skanky women wearing too much make-up while chewing gum and making rude comments is still the average chain-stores employee. When I do end up at stores like Walmart and Target I usually end up regretting my visit afterwards.

It's obvious that good deals can help one compete with Amazon. Look at Kmart. I really buy the majority of my games through Kmart now; I still have DVD's and whatnot purchased from Amazon but Kmart wins in regards to new release deals.
 
I'm in NY so I already pay tax on Amazon so this doesn't affect me but I just purchased a book that I couldn't find at my local Barnes and Noble or Borders for $14.67 with free 2 day shipping versus tracking it down at a store, paying $19.99 plus tax, and gas cost. Good luck B&M.
 
These B&M are just jealous that Amazon has shaped up the future business model. People CANNOT afford to drive around and waste money on gas to go from shop to shop when Amazon as a retailer needs minimal physical presence and can offer just as many if not more products for a cheaper price cause their margins are lower. No rent on B&M. Employees located in select locations. UPS is their shipping carrier so they don't need to hire trucks to carry things around from store to store. It's a great savings. If Amazon charged the exorbitant prices these B&M's do their profit would be ridiculous; The investors would be extremely happy. Minimal overhead It's a great business model.
 
I am in NY so I pay sales tax but amazon is still much cheaper usually then going to a retail store, wasting gas and not finding what you want. Regardless their prices are lower. I also don't like that most retail stores will do anything to find loopholes if you need to return something, or if you need service etc. I have been shopping with amazon for over 10 years and I have never had a problem so I don't see why I should stop shopping with them. I can name many, many problems I have had with B&M retailers.

On electronics and games amazon has consistently beaten most prices I can find elsewhere and I shop around before I purchase things too.

Have I been shopping less at B&M retailers after discovering Amazon and online retail, ABSOLUTELY!! In fact I hardly buy anything at retail these days unless the price is super good, other than food, groceries, consumables and clothing.

Since I cannot trust retail stores to give good service, or at least give service within their posted policies that also means they are not deserving of my larger purchases. Employees make up policies that are not there and insist on them and managers find loopholes in any policy posted so they don't have to honor returns and exchanges even if they are honest ones. Prices are often not posted and displays are very misleading at many retailers here.

Honestly if I didn't have Amazon I would just head to the fleamarket for my shopping needs or garage sales although those happen only in the summer here so I would be a bit starved for shopping during the winter especially if I needed something. Because its pretty much the same as shopping at retail these days.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']I am in NY so I pay sales tax but amazon is still much cheaper usually then going to a retail store, wasting gas and not finding what you want. [/QUOTE]

Too true. Those stores can push for Amazon to collect tax, I don't care. Amazon is still beyond any B&M store.
 
[quote name='SlammedNiss']Why wouldn't retailers be pushing this. They're losing sales to Amazon because: 1. Amazon is typically cheaper, tax or not 2. Amazon's CS kicks ass.

Retailers are probably trying to do whatever they can to get customers back in their stores.[/QUOTE]

Even if I had to pay sales tax on Amazon, I would still buy from them. It's not the sales tax that's driving away customers. It's the cheap prices and B&M locations simply can't compete, unless they start cutting prices by a lot. I don't see that happening though or their stock will start plummeting if their profit margins become smaller and smaller.
 
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