RUMOR: No more MS points system after 2012

KaneRobot

KaneRobot

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Not sure how legit "insidemobileapps.com" is, but...have at it:

http://www.insidemobileapps.com/201...its-virtual-currency-system-microsoft-points/

Microsoft’s proprietary virtual currency system, Microsoft Points, will be phased out by the end of the year, according to a source with knowledge of the company’s decision. The change will affect developers for Windows Phone, the Zune marketplace and Xbox Live.

By the end of 2012, all transactions will be based on the region set on the purchasing account and real money will be used to purchase all Windows Phone content. The move puts the Windows Phone Marketplace in line with the purchasing practices used in the App Store and the Android Market.

When asked Microsoft declined to provide further information, with a Microsoft spokesperson responding with “we do not comment on rumours or speculation.”

Mobile developers that have publishing agreements with Microsoft are being warned to plan their upcoming downloadable content (DLC) and in-app purchases in accordance with the change. Customers with existing Microsoft Points balances will have them converted into their local currency after the switch.
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I know there will be celebration among many people if this turns out to be true, but I see zero reason to be happy about this. People who bitch about having a random dollar seventy-five left over in their account apparently aren't using this website correctly, since I've been getting 50 dollars worth of points for $40 and 20 dollars worth of points for $15 or less for years now. That discount (or discount on top of a discount if the item is on sale) has more than made up for any paltry amount of points left in my account when it gets drained to near zero.

Eliminating points just gives MS tighter control over their pricing - no more cheating the system with discounted points. Hooray, throw a party.
 
I imagine if this is true that Point abuse got too much. The point system is a shitty con when it comes to deceiving price point but it is effective so Id be surprised if they ditched it.
 
I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.
 
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As long as I can still purchase cards to redeem money on my account (I have never given MS or Sony my CC info and never will for a console), then I will be set. Even iTunes and PSN card deals can be found, so I think it is likely that XBL deals will be there too.
 
[quote name='praxus07']I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.[/QUOTE]

50 points is the equivalent of 62.5 cents. I'm sure that's just crushing your finances. This speaks to the point Kane made exactly. Most people have saved more than 62.5 cents when getting deals on Xbox Live points that having a miniscule amount like this left over is a non issue (hell, I JUST paid $40 for 4000 points a couple weeks ago). So, because you're lazy and willing to pay MSRP, changing the system is an "improvement"?

[quote name='Yanksfan']As long as I can still purchase cards to redeem money on my account (I have never given MS or Sony my CC info and never will for a console), then I will be set. Even iTunes and PSN card deals can be found, so I think it is likely that XBL deals will be there too.[/QUOTE]

I don't know. Deals on PSN cards seem much more scarce. I think it's just hard to rationalize giving somebody a discount on $20 for any retailer. How do they not look at $20 as $20? That's the illusion the points system helped provide. The most likely scenarios would be when places like Eversave had the $10 for $20 at Overstock...and even those have had more limitations lately.
 
[quote name='praxus07']I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.[/QUOTE]

Well start using the site correctly. This is easily bad news if true. All the free MSP out there really make up for any left over balance you may have. Ive never even bothered looking at what I have leftover because I am constantly getting free points or point cards for dirt cheap.
 
I don't like this at all. Deals on points will all but disappear outside of using Reward Zone certificate type offers/deals. I'm sitting on roughly 17k points, all bought at 50% off (or close to it). Those will last quite a while, but "stocking up" will become a thing of the past once this switch over occurs.

[quote name='praxus07']I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.[/QUOTE]

If you haven't bought anything in a year, why do you even care?
 
[quote name='Corvin']If you haven't bought anything in a year, why do you even care?[/QUOTE]

Because big, bad Microsoft is holding his 62.5 cents "hostage"...



:dunce:
 
I can't see them completely ditching the system entirely in one felt swoop unless there are major security concerns.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']
Eliminating points just gives MS tighter control over their pricing - no more cheating the system with discounted points. Hooray, throw a party.[/QUOTE]

Good point Kane. Hopefully this results in retailers discounting the points in December to get rid of stock, but since all points will get converted into dollars, who knows.


Corvin, not to derail this thread, but how are you getting points at 50% off? I normally take advantage of the $15 dollar 1600 point cards and the $40 4000 point cards, but 50% off! Fill us in!
 
yeah, so long as points get converts to dolla dolla bills yall...I'm fine with that.

I'm guessing xbl rewards program will be restructured. "here's a quarter! for taking this survey!" sounds less rewarding even though it's virtually the same thing.
 
This was just a matter of time, really. Sony initially threw a wrench in the works by going with a 'real money' system, but was still outnumbered by Microsoft and Nintendo using 'points'. Now that Nintendo has ditched points in favor of real money, Microsoft becomes the odd man out. Once Nintendo changed, this was inevitable.
 
Good, as someone who doesn't buy much with MS points I would rather deal with dollars. I had 1200 points in their system for a year and a half, doing nothing. Maybe this will lead to more direct %-off sales, as I'm sure MS has factored in point sales and hasn't wanted people double-dipping.

Though I can certainly see it as a negative for heavy buyers who are also willing & able to dedicate time and effort to finding cheap points.
 
[quote name='praxus07']I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.[/QUOTE]

Have they said if they'll let you pay exactly what an item costs? I'm worried that you'll still have to transfer money from your credit card to your Microsoft account in $10 increments or something to that effect. How does it currently work on WP7?

I'm going to miss all the deals on MS points cards. If they're anything like Sony then after the switch the sales on pre-paid cards will be few and far between.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot'] ...I've been getting 50 dollars worth of points for $40 and 20 dollars worth of points for $15 or less for years now. That discount (or discount on top of a discount if the item is on sale) has more than made up for any paltry amount of points left in my account when it gets drained to near zero. [/QUOTE] EXACTLY!!!! This is bad news in my opinion, for this very reason. I almost always buy my MS points when they are on sale. If this is true, that won't happen anymore. Also, I'm not about to link my CC to my xbox live account after all the issues others have had in the past with hacking and unwanted auto-renewals.
 
[quote name='xtreme_Zr2']
Corvin, not to derail this thread, but how are you getting points at 50% off? I normally take advantage of the $15 dollar 1600 point cards and the $40 4000 point cards, but 50% off! Fill us in![/QUOTE]

Honestly, nothing special. Just taking advantage of those "overstock.com" type deals for points instead of using it towards games or dvds or whatnot. When those type deals pop up people always start posting about what game they had their eye on and are using it towards, but I always use them towards points because game prices will always drop, point cards don't. Unless it's a game I absolutely have to have, I can wait for a sale. That deal is better spent on points.

I got a few from Google Checkout in the past. Newegg had the $40 for $20 deal around Christmas. That's half off 2 point cards. There have been other companies that offered similar $10 deals.

Cashing out the K-mart (RIP) coupon trains is another. There was that controversial $10 Target coupon a while back. I bought a few with that. Circuit City had that B1G1 deal before they shut down(of course those points have long been spent). Bought a bunch then. Then you have reward zone stuff, which I know some don't consider a deal, but if there is nothing else I'm interested in at the time, then yeah, it's a 1600 point card for $10. It's either that or let it expire. Same with Amazon credits (even though I don't think I ever bought one with my credits).

Then there are the deals where points are thrown in for free with a game purchase. BB gave 800 with Gears 3 on Black Friday. I had to call multiple times to get mine, but they ended up just sending a 1600 point card.

In the end it's not one great deal that I stack up on, but lots of little deals, a card here + a card there, that add up in the long run. And before I know it I have a half dozen or more cards in a pile.
 
The only bad thing is now they can tax us on the card at the store and tax us for the purchase on the marketplace.

I am sure there will still be cards at the stores, iTunes has cards at the stores and those frequently go on sale. iTunes and PSN also tax me when I make a purchase on the marketplace, leaving me with cents in my account, hopefully MS will not do the same. This is worse than being left with say, 20 points in your account. Now your balance will always be an odd number and it will be very difficult to spend all the money on your cash card.

IMO we should be allowed to purchase things individually with a credit card or paypal, but after the hacking fiasco no type of online service is getting my credit card information or paypal.
 
I had heard once that the reason for point systems to begin with was that it allowed a company to offer their services across multiple regions without the need to claim themselves as a bank, or something to that effect. That there's a distinct advantage to having a funny money service instead of straight cash. Has anyone ever heard this and/or can shed some light on it?

It's also telling that Kane can concisely spell out THIS IS WHY THIS IS BAD and yet there's already a couple GOOD MOVE MS responses. Like Corvin, I just pounce on deals when they are there and try to obtain points from promotions if the effort isn't strenuous. It's not difficult to stockpile if you know what you are doing.
 
just realized that without ms points, now making purchases on XBL generally has to be done with a CC or paypal account...I'm not happy with that. so in a way discontinuing cards and having card sales etc, ms will get our money in advance and have no need to redistribute or print cards/packaging. smart bastards.
 
[quote name='Strell']I had heard once that the reason for point systems to begin with was that it allowed a company to offer their services across multiple regions without the need to claim themselves as a bank, or something to that effect. That there's a distinct advantage to having a funny money service instead of straight cash. Has anyone ever heard this and/or can shed some light on it?
.[/QUOTE]

It also allowed a company to have a set "price" for a game across the globe. Say Braid is 800pts across the board. That's $10 here, but the dollar to point ratio is different overseas, so it may be $12.50 in Japan or $14.75 in Australia. This allowed them to put out a press release and say, hey our game is 800 points and no matter where you live, you know how much that is based on your currency without having the need to reprice everything per region. I'm sure it makes sales easier too. Dropping Braid to 400 points is easier than dropping it to $5 in the US, $6.25 in Japan, $8 in Australia, etc.
 
[quote name='007']This was just a matter of time, really. Sony initially threw a wrench in the works by going with a 'real money' system, but was still outnumbered by Microsoft and Nintendo using 'points'. Now that Nintendo has ditched points in favor of real money, Microsoft becomes the odd man out. Once Nintendo changed, this was inevitable.[/QUOTE]

I think it has a lot more to do with Apple charging real money for apps. Microsoft already sell content on Windows Phone 7 for real money.
 
[quote name='Strell']I had heard once that the reason for point systems to begin with was that it allowed a company to offer their services across multiple regions without the need to claim themselves as a bank, or something to that effect. That there's a distinct advantage to having a funny money service instead of straight cash. Has anyone ever heard this and/or can shed some light on it?
[/QUOTE]

I'd imagine if they do make a conversion to dollars, any cards they sell in a store will probably be called, and treated as, a gift card(rather than a psuedo bank account like point systems) and would probably avoid any of the problems you speculate may or may not exist. Like itune or amazon gift cards, I wouldn't think microsoft cards for cash value would be treated any differently.

Itunes cards are on sale for 10-20 percent off fairly often(and sometimes even a little more), I'd imagine Microsoft ones would also go on similar sales.
 
Hmmm, dont know how I feel about this. The point system seems to work just fine but maybe dollars if done right would be better?

Its all up to how they do it. If they have regularly sales then I would have no problem with it as it would just cut out the middle man. If you dont have to produce the cards anymore than I want to see saving in some other form.

I am still waiting for gaming companies to get that digital things should cost MUCH less than traditional products.
 
I wouldn't expect any clearence on point cards like some people are hoping for here. Considering the cards themselves have no monetary value at all until activated at a register, it's really not costing anyone much to just toss these in the trash at retail and replace with one that says $20 instead of 1600 points. The only hope is the online retailers that still sell the clamshell cases, but I'm assuming any sale would mean an end to those in seconds once the word got out.
 
Good. Maybe Microsoft will finally allow us to spend exact change on purchases so that they can catch up with the amazing marketplace features of the Nintendo 3DS eShop.
 
If this is true I need to know what are all the exclusive games on Xbox Live to purchase before next year?

I know some of these aren't exactly exclusives, they are just not available on PSN/Wiiware or available on disc for the Xbox 360 (Qubed, Konami Classic Collection Vol. 1 and 2, Xbox Arcade Unplugged, etc.):
Trigger Heart Excelica
Ikaruga
Radiant Silvergun
Guardian Heroes
Bangai-o HD

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, better get the exclusive DLC like Alan Wake's: the Writer.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Good. Maybe Microsoft will finally allow us to spend exact change on purchases so that they can catch up with the amazing marketplace features of the Nintendo 3DS eShop.[/QUOTE]

Discounted points were well worth the tradeoff.
 
[quote name='anotherpoorgamer']If this is true I need to know what are all the exclusive games on Xbox Live to purchase before next year?

I know some of these aren't exactly exclusives, they are just not available on PSN/Wiiware or available on disc for the Xbox 360 (Qubed, Konami Classic Collection Vol. 1 and 2, Xbox Arcade Unplugged, etc.):
Trigger Heart Excelica
Ikaruga
Radiant Silvergun
Guardian Heroes
Bangai-o HD

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, better get the exclusive DLC like Alan Wake's: the Writer.[/QUOTE]

dude, don't panic. even if points do go away, that doesn't mean your points will just vanish.

but with real CC/Paypal transactions, you're less likely to have impulse purchases. Yes, it's easy to convert points to money in your head but it doesn't hit you the same as pulling out your CC. There have been many times I went all the way to the billing page of a purchase order, only to realize I didn't need it and change my mind. But with MS Points, there have been times where I bought it and then thought, man, I just spend $17.50 on a song pack for Dance Central...
 
[quote name='Trakan']Discounted points were well worth the tradeoff.[/QUOTE]
You can easily have both, so there is no excuse for not having it for all of these years. If I want something that's 560 points, I shouldn't have to buy 800 or 1600 points to be able to buy it.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']You can easily have both, so there is no excuse for not having it for all of these years. If I want something that's 560 points, I shouldn't have to buy 800 or 1600 points to be able to buy it.[/QUOTE]

why not? you'll eventually spend it anyway.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']50 points is the equivalent of 62.5 cents. I'm sure that's just crushing your finances. This speaks to the point Kane made exactly. Most people have saved more than 62.5 cents when getting deals on Xbox Live points that having a miniscule amount like this left over is a non issue (hell, I JUST paid $40 for 4000 points a couple weeks ago). So, because you're lazy and willing to pay MSRP, changing the system is an "improvement"?[/QUOTE]

To me it is a huge improvement. I don't deal hunt like crazy, or go through the crap you guys go through to buy cheaper points (talking about Corvins post). That's more of a hassle than I'm willing to do. If I have the funds on the CC, and it's something I want, I'd rather hit purchase for the exact amount instead of buying more points than I need, and have them sit there indefinitely. So yes, this might be a huge improvement. And since this is the way society is today, I'll just say it...if it benefits me, AWESOME, if it doesn't benefit you, tough noogies. :booty:
 
Regardless of discounted cards or not, the biggest problem with this is sales tax. There is no sales tax on purchases made with points, but every place that uses real money charges sales tax. Where I live that's an 8.7% difference.

[quote name='praxus07']To me it is a huge improvement. I don't deal hunt like crazy, or go through the crap you guys go through to buy cheaper points (talking about Corvins post). That's more of a hassle than I'm willing to do. If I have the funds on the CC, and it's something I want, I'd rather hit purchase for the exact amount instead of buying more points than I need, and have them sit there indefinitely. So yes, this might be a huge improvement. And since this is the way society is today, I'll just say it...if it benefits me, AWESOME, if it doesn't benefit you, tough noogies. :booty:[/QUOTE]

Your wasted 62.5 cents is less than the sales tax you would be charged on one $11 purchase at a 6% tax rate.
 
If they do drop the MSP system and replace it with a real money system, as long as I can purchase a PSN-type card that's for money value and use that on my account, that would be OK.

If they force you to add in your credit card number to your XBL account to make purchases, I'm never buying anything on XBLM again. I don't need to have my credit card compromised because someone decides to try and hack my XBL account as we've been seeing a rash of recently.

And yes, I know I can use virtual CC numbers for just using XBLM, though not all cards have that available as an option.
 
[quote name='praxus07']To me it is a huge improvement. I don't deal hunt like crazy, or go through the crap you guys go through to buy cheaper points (talking about Corvins post). That's more of a hassle than I'm willing to do. [/QUOTE]

and yet you're on cheapassgamer... deal shopping is deal shopping. shopping for discounted points is no harder.

getting 1200 points for free far (buying 4000 points for $35) out trumps the 50 points you have left over. Now your argument of having left over points being a bad thing would make sense if you never ever made any further purchases or whether the leftover points disappeared.

but chances are very good that at some point in the future you'll spend the points. and your leftover points do not disappear.
 
[quote name='dirtyvu']and yet you're on cheapassgamer... deal shopping is deal shopping. shopping for discounted points is no harder.

getting 1200 points for free far (buying 4000 points for $35) out trumps the 50 points you have left over. Now your argument of having left over points being a bad thing would make sense if you never ever made any further purchases or whether the leftover points disappeared.

but chances are very good that at some point in the future you'll spend the points. and your leftover points do not disappear.[/QUOTE]

That's all true, but kind of moot in a sense as you can find deals on iTunes cards regularly and they're just cash value. Granted it might not be as much of a discount as what is typical on MS point cards.

Anyway, I don't much care. I'm not much of a cheapass these days, unlike when I first found the site and was a broke ass student. Most of the points I've bought in recent years have just been 1600 point card bought at $20 as I wanted to buy something and there wasn't a deal on points at the time. So I'm not much of a deal hunter either. At most I'll check the front page or two of the deals forum here before buying a points card or game and make sure I'm not missing out on a deal and wasting money. But otherwise, when I want a game or need points, I just buy it.

As for the points deal, I'm not much for stocking up on points when there's a deal as I don't buy all that much downloadable content (hate buying games I can't trade/re-sell) so I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of points at the end of this generation as I'm not sure I'll keep gaming beyond this generation. I did grab a 4,000 point card in a deal a while back as there are several things I want to buy--just haven't been able to use it due to my live account being hacked and locked for investigation since Oct. But I'll spend most of that quickly when I get my account back as there's stuff I want, and I don't want a big point balance on the account to temp hackers to steal my account again.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's all true, but kind of moot in a sense as you can find deals on iTunes cards regularly and they're just cash value. Granted it might not be as much of a discount as what is typical on MS point cards.

Anyway, I don't much care. I'm not much of a cheapass these days, unlike when I first found the site and was a broke ass student. Most of the points I've bought in recent years have just been 1600 point card bought at $20 as I wanted to buy something and there wasn't a deal on points at the time. So I'm not much of a deal hunter either. At most I'll check the front page or two of the deals forum here before buying a points card or game and make sure I'm not missing out on a deal and wasting money. But otherwise, when I want a game or need points, I just buy it.

As for the points deal, I'm not much for stocking up on points when there's a deal as I don't buy all that much downloadable content (hate buying games I can't trade/re-sell) so I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of points at the end of this generation as I'm not sure I'll keep gaming beyond this generation. I did grab a 4,000 point card in a deal a while back as there are several things I want to buy--just haven't been able to use it due to my live account being hacked and locked for investigation since Oct. But I'll spend most of that quickly when I get my account back as there's stuff I want, and I don't want a big point balance on the account to temp hackers to steal my account again.[/QUOTE]

Just want to point out that it's not only "broke ass students" who find merit in saving money. You have to recognize that your mentality is that of a bachelor with no children and no one to worry about but himself. Even if you're not strapped for cash, when you have a wife and a kid, you start to think that every dollar you spend could go toward something more important. Every penny I save matters. It's the same reason people clip coupons.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']If they do drop the MSP system and replace it with a real money system, as long as I can purchase a PSN-type card that's for money value and use that on my account, that would be OK.

If they force you to add in your credit card number to your XBL account to make purchases, I'm never buying anything on XBLM again. I don't need to have my credit card compromised because someone decides to try and hack my XBL account as we've been seeing a rash of recently.

And yes, I know I can use virtual CC numbers for just using XBLM, though not all cards have that available as an option.[/QUOTE]


This is what I was thinking. If MS turns everything into actual dollar amounts that's fine by me. As long as they have cards I can buy in-store and don't require a credit/debit card.
 
[quote name='anotherpoorgamer']This is what I was thinking. If MS turns everything into actual dollar amounts that's fine by me. As long as they have cards I can buy in-store and don't require a credit/debit card.[/QUOTE]As much I dislike having a credit card tied to PSN, there doesn't seem to be any way around that, unlike XBL.

I haven't had a credit card tied to my XBL account for 2 years and some months and don't really feel like I need to add one in. I buy XBLM points card when they go on-sale and the same for XBL subs. I add them to my account as needed.

We'll see if that changes in the future or not.
 
[quote name='dirtyvu']why not? you'll eventually spend it anyway.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather not have to spend $20 when I just want to spend $7. I'm not interested in buying fun bucks for the future and just want the option to reach a balance of zero if I wish to do so. Physical cards or free points are the only times where that's not an issue.

There's no reason to make excuses for why it's okay to not have that option. It's what turned me off of buying more WiiWare/VC games on the Wii and it's why I'm far more likely to buy 3DS eShop games since they've added that. Every other digital distribution service I use lets me pay exact change, so it's Microsoft's turn to do the right thing.
 
At first I thought... I'll believe it when I see it. Now, I'm a bit peeved knowing they'll eliminate it all together just to gouge us further... I'll have to just get out of being a gamer soon. Waste of time...

I also hear the 720 won't allow used games... Funny it will have a BR player, speaking of which I should give my ps3 some use and throw one in...

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/po...-used-games-more-rumors-on-the-next-gen-xbox/
 
I'm sure it's been said several times in this thread but this is bad for cheapassgamers because "points" can be gotten at a discount, while $10 usually costs $10. I've never paid full retail for MS points. Once they go to straight cash transactions, only Microsoft can mark down content and give you a discount.

I also hope when they do this that they still offer cards that can be purchased at retail, or through online retailers because I will never enter my CC info into an Xbox or Playstation.

Hell I tried to buy a PS3 card the other day and they go for ABOVE retail now, which speaks to consumers confidence in giving Sony their CC info. lol
 
I need a points sale soon! My Microsoft points are getting really really low... I have no clue why people don't see the deal in getting 4000 points for $35-40. That's a free $10 game right there!
 
[quote name='praxus07']I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.[/QUOTE]

Now, I know why America is in a recession!!! All of our money is tied up in unused MS points...

I was about to say that I can't believe someone was crying about the "waste" of pocket change, but then, I realized it was you, the same person who wanted free stuff because they released a new dashboard.
 
[quote name='praxus07']I wished they had this originally over the crappy points system anyday. I'm one of those "not using this site correctly" and just would get my points over the actual xbox marketplace. I've had 50 points sitting on my account for almost a year now. Nothing I bought ever seemed to use up those points, so this would be an improvement.[/QUOTE]

You're right, it would be much better having 50 cents sitting unused on your account instead.

The change will NOT fix the leftover points issue, it will just say cents instead of points, hardly better, infact I would say it's far worse.
 
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