Section 8 Housing

lilboo

lilboo

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I'm really between on "Section 8" and I'm looking for other people's people input on this situation.

First of all, can someone tell me exactly how this works?

We are moving when our lease is up, because there is now too much Section 8 here and the crime rate has increased. This isn't some opinion--we SEE cops here more often. We SEE the vandalism. We SEE the weed bags all over the stairwells. We SEE the human pee in the elevator :)roll:)

I hate to generalize, but I'll be looking for places that are strictly no Section 8.

Here's where the debatable part is. Why does Section 8 seem to give people so much money? I was looking on Craigslist and this lady posted an ad looking to live in a certain area (where the Section 8 voucher was good for, apparently) and would get $1300 a month for 3 bedrooms. She said she has 2 kids.

I am not against helping people. I am DEF not against helping children--but when is helping out too much? When does it cross the line?

The reason why I ask this is because..well..why should this lady and her kids live in a better and more comfortable apartment? Let's be honest here--would she NEED 3 bedrooms? I don't think so. (BTW, I am not totally focusing on this one chick, as it can refer to anyone). You can answer and say "Well, she HAS 2 kids!"..but do the kids REALLY NEED their own room?

Shouldn't help like this.. be minimal? People need a roof over their heads. They don't NEED to live in gorgeous homes/apartments. Why is there such a feeling/(demand?) of entitlement?

I just think that people whom are in crappy situations should not be living better than people whom are in better situations. How is this fair? Why is this fair?!

I'm curious as if other people share a similar view, or if I am totally out in the dark on this one.
 
This is the wiki (if you didn't just go there in the first place :p): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_%28housing%29

And the gov site for it from HUD: http://portal.hud.gov/portal/page/portal/HUD/topics/housing_choice_voucher_program_section_8

I'm obviously no expert, but it seems like it's a voucher program to get people into private housing rather than projects. A landlord signs up for the program and the PHA pays the difference between 30% of the tenant's pay and what HUD determines to be the "fair market rent" for the unit. It looks like it's available for people making up to 80% of the median income in an area. Lists can apparently be thousands of people long with wait times up to 3-5 years.

I'm sure the crime and the relative shittiness of the place would depend on the area, and since it's a voucher plan for private housing then the quality is ultimately going to depend on whoever built the place.

I think everyone wants to live in a nice place, so I don't find that particularly odd or reprehensible. If you want them to live in a shitty place then you'll have to talk to who built the particular building and ask the landlord why they accept Section 8 tenants.

EDIT: And is that really the proper use of "whom"? Hmmm.....
 
Whom is a made up word, Spaz, meant to trip up students. Creed knows this.

I looked around for an answer on the who/whom thing, and found a fairly useful rule. If you ask a question and the answer includes a him/her, then the question needs a whom. If you ask a question and the answer includes a he/she, then you use who.

I.e.

"Who/Whom does this book belong to?" --> It belongs to him. So the correct way of asking is "Whom does this book belong to?"

"Who/Whom went to the store?" --> He went to the store. So the correct way of asking is "Who went to the store?"

More academically, you use who when it is the subject of the sentence, and whom when it is the object of the verb in the sentence. If you're good at diagramming sentences, then this is useful to you. I haven't done that shit since middle school. A subject is what the sentence is about/something happening, and the object is what is having something "done" to it.

You can return to your regularly scheduled discussion now.
 
I can speak on this since my sister once had section 8 housing (Single mom, low income....).

When going to visit her, people were shady at the least, criminal at best. One guy I met ran a marijuana growing farm in the back (and nobody paid attention to what anybody did), and ran electricity soo high it destroyed most of my sis's electrical appliances.

My niece was also stalked by a sex offender, and ended up having to move pretty far away...

When section 8 moves in, crime goes sky high. People can say what they want, but people on section 8 are on it because they can't afford even an apartment, and while sometimes it's from being homeless, and/or not being able to afford things, most of the times it's due to drug use and/or criminal activity.

We are moving when our lease is up, because there is now too much Section 8 here and the crime rate has increased. This isn't some opinion--we SEE cops here more often. We SEE the vandalism. We SEE the weed bags all over the stairwells. We SEE the human pee in the elevator ()

I hate to generalize, but I'll be looking for places that are strictly no Section 8.
Click to expand...

You may get the generalizing shit from some hippy/left winger here, but you aren't generalizing about section 8 people.
 
I saw move as far as you can.
Just becasue there is crime and general bad people doesnt mean you don't feel safe.
 
Section 8 is a scam and people that accept the vouchers bump up the price of their properties to get more money from a program that doesn't have enough oversight.

Case in point, I was looking at renting a different place earlier this year before I bought my house. God's honest truth a landlord asked me if I was on Section 8 before giving me a price. He said he could accept a voucher for up to $1,500 (which according to the program means that the tennant would pay an additional $300-450) but my renting price for not qualifying was $1,150 per month.
 
[quote name='SpazX']This is the wiki (if you didn't just go there in the first place :p): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_%28housing%29

And the gov site for it from HUD: http://portal.hud.gov/portal/page/portal/HUD/topics/housing_choice_voucher_program_section_8

I'm obviously no expert, but it seems like it's a voucher program to get people into private housing rather than projects. A landlord signs up for the program and the PHA pays the difference between 30% of the tenant's pay and what HUD determines to be the "fair market rent" for the unit. It looks like it's available for people making up to 80% of the median income in an area. Lists can apparently be thousands of people long with wait times up to 3-5 years.

I'm sure the crime and the relative shittiness of the place would depend on the area, and since it's a voucher plan for private housing then the quality is ultimately going to depend on whoever built the place.

I think everyone wants to live in a nice place, so I don't find that particularly odd or reprehensible. If you want them to live in a shitty place then you'll have to talk to who built the particular building and ask the landlord why they accept Section 8 tenants.

EDIT: And is that really the proper use of "whom"? Hmmm.....[/QUOTE]

Well, let me explain my area. It's an old "historical" town (Collingswood, NJ if you felt like looking it up :lol: ) This apartment building is reaaaal old and has been around for a hot minute. We live in what they were formerly called here "Luxury Apartments". The reason being.. it's a high rise apartment, we are about 10-12 minutes from Philly, we live in a beautiful area, and all of the utilities are included (air conditioner on all the time, FTW)

A few years ago, and I learned this AFTER being here :lol:, it was signed over to new management..and they allowed Section 8..and the destruction has started ever since. We are on our 3rd year here, and it really has gotten bad this last year. A lot of places in Camden (yuuuuck!) closed down, so we took them in :roll: Not that they should be out on the streets...but still...

I have 2 big issues with Section 8;
1) There's no expiration date. There's nothing that says "We will help yo for.. 10 years". None. So I could have no job, or work part time at my McDnalds bringing in like $100 a week....and not have to worry about anything.

2) It's not right for them to put in areas with people that...take care of themselves. Middle-higher class areas end up getting stuck with them. Thus their property values shoot way down because no one wants to be in a ghetto....


Basically if I worked part time at McDonalds and made $100 and I lived practically the same as someone who is making $70,000 a year. It just.. isn't right. What makes someone entitled to that? The person who is making $70K a year earned it. They worked hard for it...where they are, THEY deserve it. Not someone who is going to want to live in a nice area..but do nothing about it :bomb:

[quote name='AdultLink']
You may get the generalizing shit from some hippy/left winger here, but you aren't generalizing about section 8 people.[/QUOTE]

And I am usually pretty liberal about most things. This is just such a heated issue for me. :lol:

[quote name='adriley313']I saw move as far as you can.
Just becasue there is crime and general bad people doesnt mean you don't feel safe.[/QUOTE]

We are going to move... but it's everywhere. Even in the nicer areas now :roll:
 
[quote name='lilboo']It's not right for them to put in areas with people that...take care of themselves. Middle-higher class areas end up getting stuck with them. Thus their property values shoot way down because no one wants to be in a ghetto....[/QUOTE]
You should be ashamed of yourself. We need socioeconomic integration so that the less fortunate can be surrounded by those to whom they can aspire to be. You need to stay in your current apartment and be a role model for these folks.

/trolling
 
[quote name='AdultLink']You may get the generalizing shit from some hippy/left winger here, but you aren't generalizing about section 8 people.[/QUOTE]

Well, he didn't say they were "Section 8 garbage" in this post...

But anyway, lilboo, I found similar complaints about this apartment complex since 2002 (not section 8 specifically, but I think it has little to do with it). You moved in 2005/2006? Since it's a hugeass place it seems to depend a lot on what building and specifically what apartment you get, but people have been complaining for years.
 
[quote name='lilboo']

A few years ago, and I learned this AFTER being here :lol:, it was signed over to new management..and they allowed Section 8..and the destruction has started ever since. We are on our 3rd year here, and it really has gotten bad this last year.

[/QUOTE]

I had the same thing happen to me. I was living in a nice apartment complex for years, when it changed ownership, and the new owners decided to take Section 8 vouchers. Within a matter of months the apartment went downhill. Loud noise all the time, burglary and crime went up, trash everywhere, unattended kids running around 24/7, and one of the new residents was a sex offender (with a criminal record) sponsored by Section 8, who continued with her criminal activities on property. In my building we had established neighbors (everyone had lived there a minimum of 3 years) who all pretty much up and left the complex after all this crap started happening, not that I blame them.

So far, I've been able to avoid Section 8 apartments by doing a few simple things. First thing is, ask if they accept Section 8, don't stay in complexes that take it. Also, find out which apartment complex that the local police rent and live in. No joke. The last complex I lived in had 10 local police officers and their families living in it, and no bullshit ever went on in that complex, as the resident police officers would not tolerate it.

However, if you can't get into one of these type of places, best I can tell you is to get renters insurance that covers theft, and photograph and document EVERYTHING you own.
 
I also don't agree that a woman with three kids should get a three bedroom. Two bedrooms should be plenty for people living on the edge. Hell, my mom and I stayed in one room for most of my childhood.

I don't see Section 8 users living better than someone that makes 70k a year. They might be working LESS but how much are they gonna have in the future?

We were on food stamps when I was a kid and it wasn't like we had filet mignon or steak. Hell, I didn't even know beef came in something other than 80% ground beef until I was in high school.

And is $1300 really that much for a three bedroom apartment in the Philadelphia area?
 
I rent out my basement. When I put up an ad for it a couple months ago I had a few people call and ask if I was Section 8. I didn't even know what that meant but after googling a little I just gave up. Looked like a lot of paperwork so I said no thanks.
 
[quote name='depascal22']And is $1300 really that much for a three bedroom apartment in the Philadelphia area?[/QUOTE]

First let me point this ad out
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/hou/1502705259.html

am looking to rent a two or three bedroom home only. No apts please. I am available to move as early as January 1st with a voucher from Section 8 but the home must be located in Clementon (Boro), NJ. I have two small girls, no pets and do not smoke. I am allowed up to $1050 for a 2Br and $1300 for a 3Br. This is guaranteed money! Please email me if you have something avavilable and I will respond promptly. Thank you for any assistance you can give me in my search for a home in Clementon (Boro), NJ.
Click to expand...

IN Philadelphia, rent is pretty cheap UNLESS you are directly in downtown Philly. I live in an area that's a "hot" location because I'm 10 minutes from Philly, and "not" Philly. Our rent is 1075 and that includes all utilities, and we are on the top floor in a high rise (no balcony. Tear)

Clementon is kind of a white trash area, but it's not a bad/ghetto area. Meaning you'll have a hearty expense at your neighbors, but they won't steal your lawn mower. It's pretty much a middle class area. I believe the household medium was something around $50,000..so take that for what it is.

ANYWAY, what infuriates me is that she is like .."needing" a townhome and not an apartment?! I don't even think Clementon has townhomes that are THAT expensive! My parents live in a nice (high taxed :bomb:) area and their mortgage is like $1500!! :lol:

We have a few years til we can safely afford a house..until then..ugh
 
Section 8 is one of many reasons I'm never going to be able to afford to live in Connecticut. If you want to live independently in this state you need to either:

A. Make more than 50k a year
B. Make less than 20k a year and have children
or C. Find a group of 3 or 4 similarly situated people like yourself to rent a house with

Since none of those options are appealing to me, my girlfriend and I will be moving to Las Vegas in a year or two. Section 8 and public housing artificially inflates the value of apartment rents, so if you're not on Section 8 or public assistance, even a one bedroom slum in a high rise apartment in the worst neighborhoods of Bridgeport, Hartford, New Haven, Waterbury, etc. is going to run you no less than $600 a month. If you're interested in something larger than a jail cell, in an area where you don't have to worry about being shot, you're looking more in the $1200 a month range.
 
Do you have a job that can be transferred to Vegas? We were actually thinking about it there too, but I've heard it's pretty lousy there..with a really shitty economy as well as high theft and crap like that.
 
Its either Section 8 (which is a subsidy to the recipient and landlords whether they take it or not since it inflates rents by increasing demand), or you build an enormous amount of public housing (projects). Or you get a huge amount of children in state custody, a bunch of shantytowns full of drug addicts and undesirables popping up everywhere, and a lot more people in jail. We're paying for it either way.

They determine how many bedrooms you 'need' based on not just the amount of kids but their gender. They won't let two kids of mixed gender share a room, and there are also rules about adults and kids not sharing rooms but I'm not that familiar with it. Then they determine the average price of apartments in that area with that amount of bedrooms, and they determine a percentage of the rent you'd pay based on your income. You can get more bedrooms and go higher than their maximum price but you pay the difference out of your own pocket, usually this means you're working under the table but theres no oversight whatsoever.

The real kick in the balls is that, if you're poor enough (i.e. you don't work) you not only don't pay any rent, but they give you a check every month to pay your utilities. Which nobody uses on utilities. Most states have reformed welfare to the point where its temporary or you must get a job within a certain amount of time, but not this. I don't get it.

You really just have to do your research on the neighborhoods you're looking at. If you want to live in a nice neighborhood, rent an apartment in a nice neighborhood. I would avoid apartment complexes in general, when those places get built they usually have to cut a deal to include a certain amount of low income units.
 
[quote name='lilboo']Do you have a job that can be transferred to Vegas? We were actually thinking about it there too, but I've heard it's pretty lousy there..with a really shitty economy as well as high theft and crap like that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm a manager for Regal Entertainment Group, and they have a bunch of locations over there, so I plan to transfer when I move to make ends meet until I can find a better job. Las Vegas has a lot of the same problems as any other big city, but home prices there are cheap now, and it's a much more fun place to be then Waterbury, CT. People in the northeast, especially around NYC are just really angry for no reason at all, and I'm sick of all the hostility.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Yeah, I'm a manager for Regal Entertainment Group, and they have a bunch of locations over there, so I plan to transfer when I move to make ends meet until I can find a better job. Las Vegas has a lot of the same problems as any other big city, but home prices there are cheap now, and it's a much more fun place to be then Waterbury, CT. People in the northeast, especially around NYC are just really angry for no reason at all, and I'm sick of all the hostility.[/QUOTE]

Oh that's good! Another reason why we decided not to live there is because it's our favorite vacation spot :lol:

Back on topic, I'm surprised this hasn't received that much input. :whistle2:k

Does anyone think there should be a time limit for Section 8? Meaning you're entitled to 1 voucher and you're given like.. 3 years to get your life back together? Or is this "unfair"?
 
[quote name='lilboo']Oh that's good! Another reason why we decided not to live there is because it's our favorite vacation spot :lol:

Back on topic, I'm surprised this hasn't received that much input. :whistle2:k

Does anyone think there should be a time limit for Section 8? Meaning you're entitled to 1 voucher and you're given like.. 3 years to get your life back together? Or is this "unfair"?[/QUOTE]

Definitely unfair. You can't expect people to improve themselves and our society refuses to let people starve or freeze to death.

If they take away death by limited access to health care, I don't know if I can stay in this country. I may move to Somalia.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Its either Section 8 (which is a subsidy to the recipient and landlords whether they take it or not since it inflates rents by increasing demand), or you build an enormous amount of public housing (projects). Or you get a huge amount of children in state custody, a bunch of shantytowns full of drug addicts and undesirables popping up everywhere, and a lot more people in jail. We're paying for it either way.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they've really not discovered a good way to deal with it yet.

Build public housing, and you create ghettos that end up with tons of crime problems.

Spread them out with section 8, or planned communities required to take so much section 8 in all developments etc., and you get more crime in the middle class areas.

Do nothing, and you'll still end up with the poor and homeless concentrated in certain areas and have crappy, high crime ghettos develop.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Definitely unfair. You can't expect people to improve themselves and our society refuses to let people starve or freeze to death.

If they take away death by limited access to health care, I don't know if I can stay in this country. I may move to Somalia.[/QUOTE]

Well then how long is enough? So what happens if someone has a job and 2 kids..but they are perfectly content living on all of this government assistance? Why should we take care of them vs just helping them?

I think people that are on any type of assistance (especially housing) to get them back on their feet, should be given a bank account that gets purchases reviewed. Why should we help someone who takes all of this tax money to live, money for food, as well assistance with utility bills...go out and spend $400 on boots? Get their hair done weekly. Shouldn't they be saving money?
 
[quote name='lilboo']Well then how long is enough? So what happens if someone has a job and 2 kids..but they are perfectly content living on all of this government assistance? Why should we take care of them vs just helping them?

I think people that are on any type of assistance (especially housing) to get them back on their feet, should be given a bank account that gets purchases reviewed. Why should we help someone who takes all of this tax money to live, money for food, as well assistance with utility bills...go out and spend $400 on boots? Get their hair done weekly. Shouldn't they be saving money?[/QUOTE]

I used to agree with this, but I've come to learn that ultimately there are certain segments of society, the uneducated, the mentally ill, those with criminal backgrounds, the disabled, seniors, etc. who will never be able to "get their life straight" for whatever reason they may have. If we don't provide some sort of support for them, most of them will end up on the street commiting crimes / selling drugs / prostituting themselves, etc and / or in prison. It's cheaper to just give these segments of society a roof over their head rather then the financial and societal costs that come with not doing it.
 
[quote name='lilboo']Well then how long is enough? So what happens if someone has a job and 2 kids..but they are perfectly content living on all of this government assistance? Why should we take care of them vs just helping them?

I think people that are on any type of assistance (especially housing) to get them back on their feet, should be given a bank account that gets purchases reviewed. Why should we help someone who takes all of this tax money to live, money for food, as well assistance with utility bills...go out and spend $400 on boots? Get their hair done weekly. Shouldn't they be saving money?[/QUOTE]
It's funny reading your thoughts on this. It's like reality and common sense keep screaming at you, but your "progressive" ideology keeps shouting them down.
It's not that difficult. If you reward people for screwing up, they have no incentive to succeed. As Ben Franklin said:
I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.
If that name sounds familiar, it's probably because you remember him from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRxoEcNu1g&feature=player_embedded
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, they've really not discovered a good way to deal with it yet.

Build public housing, and you create ghettos that end up with tons of crime problems.

Spread them out with section 8, or planned communities required to take so much section 8 in all developments etc., and you get more crime in the middle class areas.

Do nothing, and you'll still end up with the poor and homeless concentrated in certain areas and have crappy, high crime ghettos develop.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of all the simcity clones I played as a kid. If you want high-end estates you have to separate them from working-class areas. If you want to be able to take advantage of boom times you have to deal with periodic unemployment spikes. Anytime you try and eradicate poverty it just migrates somewhere else. Eventually you learn to build up the best city areas while giving the poor areas basic services so they don't riot.

Of course, in Simcity you could get the rich to pay their fair share of taxes. Should have been called FantasyCity.
 
[quote name='lilboo']Well then how long is enough?[/QUOTE]

Until they die.

Give everybody a basic standard of living. One room with a toilet, bath, heat and a light. No car, no tv and no radio. Have common areas like a soup kitchen with free food.

If you have a kid, you can choose to have the kids removed without any backlash.

If you get a job, congrats! You can buy other stuff.
 
200627b.jpg
 
I lived in an apartment complex for a long time and I have see nothing but problems with section 8 people. Oh the stories I could tell....I just don't have time to write up a long ass essay on this post..
 
I had a friend who lived in a gated community near Section 8 housing. I was quick to move down the street and into the gates whenever I visited.
 
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