Sega VP of Marketing Bashes Wii - Now Praising Wii after a couple of angry calls

Scrubking

Scrubking

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[quote name='Scott Steinberg'] I am a little concerned about the creative depth of the Wii pool. I'm not sure if they will top out in 2008 or 2007.

But how much value can developers and creative folks get out of this wrist motion two years from now, or 5 years from now, or 10 years from now?

How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there.

We know the PS3 pool is pretty deep. There's a lot to exploit there.[/QUOTE]
Link

I thought Sega and Nintendo were getting along. Don't they have a Mario & Sonic game coming out?
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Link

I thought Sega and Nintendo were getting along. Don't they have a Mario & Sonic game coming out?[/quote] Now lets break down his statement piece by piece and how I feel about his quotes.

"The Wii will start to look really dated in a couple years when developers get more value from the 360 and learn more and more about the PlayStation 3,"- Ok now I agree here but I payed $250 for my Wii, I expected that, if I want high def graphics I would play my 360.

"But how much value can developers and creative folks get out of this wrist motion two years from now, or 5 years from now, or 10 years from now?"- Hmm thats a good question, maybe if we didn't stop with the fucking minigame collections hint hint. I can see his point here that the developers are using their resources up already.

"How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there?"- This statement royally pissed me the fuck off. So Nintendo attempts to bring something different and all you could think of is if can they make it different when they clearly have already and think of the mindset that they can't. Maybe if you don't port an arcade game or make an olympic game and make something different you may find innovation somewhere.

The $600 Sony machine has struggled to win customers, but Sony says its graphical power and built-in high-definition Blu-ray DVD player will give it appeal for 10 years.- Do I really give a fuck about graphics, no. Show me some fucking innoviative gameplay (and when I say innovative gameplay I mean like the physics engine in HL2 but more useful and more destructable enviroment based, or new gameplay expirences that I have never expirenced) and then I will agree here. Sadly I seen none of this. Ok sure those big graphics madden players will eat the PS3 up because madden looks best there and they need something to complement there fast car and their bling.

"We know the PS3 pool is pretty deep. There's a lot to exploit there,"- Ok but will you or will you stay with the old formula with most developers tend to follow. Hmm the 2nd option looks more plausable here, but prove me wrong.

Sigh, this just annoys me to see all the hate.
 
yeah and for some reason..i still cant find a wii...but i can find a gagillion p3s sitting around.....

he is just attacking the novelty of the wii...i think that his crappy sonic game has something to do with it....360 didnt fair much better with that awful title....

how come they didnt put virtua tennis on the wii? i bet that would have sold and done well.
 
Yes, the depth of FPS shooters on the PS3 is deep. Let's see.....L1 to throw grenade, R1 to shoot. I wonder how much value there is in that. Surely that button combo can be exploited for at least 10 more years.
 
Oh my. I know I'm mirroring Kotaku here, but when I think solid business decisions, I don't exactly think SEGA.

Hmm, how about you capitalize on the current fastest selling console instead of diving into the PS3 kiddy pool? You did see the "No Diving" signs the NPD has been putting up every month, didn't you?
 
I think there are a couple of things happening:

Right now people are going nuts over HDTV. They'll literally watch *anything* as long as it's HD (look at Sunrise Earth (they're watching grass grow - but it's in HD!) on Discovery HD, sports that they never watched before, etc.). While this plays into the 'HD is a winner!' idea (if it's not HD it's just doesn't exist) it also has the problem that once HD becomes the norm (like color did) content will still be the issue.

I think the Wii can compete successfully simply by having fun games. It's how they did it with the DS and it isn't as technically advanced as the PSP. Ultimately content is what people want. Everything else is just part of the drive-train to get it to them.

Still, if you look at the Wii's current offerings, it seems pretty thin. I can say the same thing about PS3 and XB360, though. I know everyone has their favorite games but I don't see any great standouts on any of the platforms, yet.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']yeah and for some reason..i still cant find a wii...but i can find a gagillion p3s sitting around.....

he is just attacking the novelty of the wii...i think that his crappy sonic game has something to do with it....360 didnt fair much better with that awful title....

how come they didnt put virtua tennis on the wii? i bet that would have sold and done well.[/quote]

Just because something is hard to find, (presumably because it has sold very well) doesn't mean that it is superior. It means it's a hot product in the minds of the masses. Will minigame compilations satisfy the casual gamers that Nintendo is pandering to? Yes, but one man's 'innovation' is another man's 'sellout'. Every time I post something like this, the Wii owners start screaming at me, "The games are coming! They just started developing recently!" Fine. When the games get here, I will gladly shut up (and probably pick up a Wii ;) ).
 
[quote name='jer7583']

Hmm, how about you capitalize on the current fastest selling console instead of diving into the PS3 kiddy pool? You did see the "No Diving" signs the NPD has been putting up every month, didn't you?[/QUOTE]

Awesome analogy given the time of year. Worthy of a mention on the CAGCast.

The one that bugs me the most is:
"But how much value can developers and creative folks get out of this wrist motion two years from now, or 5 years from now, or 10 years from now?"
Click to expand...

How will that be any different than what companies have been regurgitating since the N64 ushered analog into the mainstream? And the digital pad before it with the NES. If they should be hitching their wagon to anyone it should be Nintendo if creativity is their goal.
 
I tend to agree that the Wii will run out of steam like he mentions, but we'll see what happens.

And Sir_Frag needs to calm the heck down.
 
[quote name='dallow']I tend to agree that the Wii will run out of steam like he mentions, but we'll see what happens.

And Sir_Frag needs to calm the heck down.[/quote]Its entirely possible, but to claim that after putting out one game is little more than attempting to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Oh man, we ran out of ideas, I knew this would happen! Quick, put Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on PS3 and 360!"

Developers have managed to do a decent amount of innovation over the last few generations with the same analog sticks and buttons, so I'm hoping they can do at least as well with the same analog stick and buttons, and the addition of motion control and pointing.
 
The DS hasn't lost steam yet, why would the Wii? They are both using a non traditional gaming interface (mixed with a traditional one.)

And I don't get the "the Wii is an impulse buy" since when is $250.00 + games + accessories an impulse buy? Maybe I'm just poor, but I consider an impulse buy a pack of gum near the register.
 
[quote name='yukine']The DS hasn't lost steam yet, why would the Wii? They are both using a non traditional gaming interface (mixed with a traditional one.)

And I don't get the "the Wii is an impulse buy" since when is $250.00 + games + accessories an impulse buy? Maybe I'm just poor, but I consider an impulse buy a pack of gum near the register.[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with price. The Wii has the potential to be an impulse buy. The problem is that it has yet to be an impulse buy. An impulse buy is something you see sitting on the shelf and figure, "what the hell, I'll get one." Of course to have an impulse buy you have to have shelves full of product for the consumer, and as we all know, that is not the case with the Wii.

Having to camp out on Sundays or call game stores daily is NOT an impulse buy. That is a product people WANT and are seeking out. Once stores remain stocked, then, and only then, can the impulse buy argument even be made. From the looks of it that won't even happen until next year... which is mind blowing.

It's a fallible argument where no rational thought was applied beforehand.
 
keep in mind he is the vp of marketing and the context from which these quotes are lifted is not in the original article
and developers have barely scratched the surface on controls (or come close to perfecting controls)
 
[quote name='yukine']The DS hasn't lost steam yet, why would the Wii? They are both using a non traditional gaming interface (mixed with a traditional one.)[/quote]

Handhelds are a whole different category.
 
Kind of an odd angle for Sega to be taking with Nintendo at the moment. While I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, I do see where he's coming from. Waggle is kind of difficult to implement into a game without making it seem derivative. Besides swinging a bat/sword/racket/gun/etc... waggle hasn't been implemented in that many different ways. What I find kind of odd though is that it's Sega doing it. So far Sega has put out the best Sonic game on console since the Dreamcast on the Wii, developing a new Nights (arguably the most wanted sequel to a Sega game ever), and been the 2nd or 3rd most successful 3rd party developer on the platform. Still, it seems strange for the Vice President of marketing to market against what is seemingly Sega's biggest platform for success (especially considering how badly Full Auto 2, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Virtua Tennis 3 flopped on the PS3).
 
[quote name='furyk']Kind of an odd angle for Sega to be taking with Nintendo at the moment. While I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, I do see where he's coming from. Waggle is kind of difficult to implement into a game without making it seem derivative. Besides swinging a bat/sword/racket/gun/etc... waggle hasn't been implemented in that many different ways. What I find kind of odd though is that it's Sega doing it. So far Sega has put out the best Sonic game on console since the Dreamcast on the Wii, developing a new Nights (arguably the most wanted sequel to a Sega game ever), and been the 2nd or 3rd most successful 3rd party developer on the platform. Still, it seems strange for the Vice President of marketing to market against what is seemingly Sega's biggest platform for success (especially considering how badly Full Auto 2, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Virtua Tennis 3 flopped on the PS3).[/quote]

I am at a loss for an explanation of how swinging a controller like a sword will become derivative but doing it by pressing X in every single game that has a sword isn't. How will using the wiimote to aim in a first person shooter becoming tiresome and boring, yet aiming with analog sticks isn't?

Will someone explain this double standard for me?

There are so many damn uses for the wii remote if game companies would excercise (and allow) a little creativity. Many more ideas can be brought to life than on your typical game control.
 
[quote name='dallow']I tend to agree that the Wii will run out of steam like he mentions, but we'll see what happens.

And Sir_Frag needs to calm the heck down.[/quote]Last night I was having to deal with a bunch of idiots. So I was kinda annoyed at something then I read this, lol. It only brought that rage back up, either way this guy is a royal asshole for not believing in the Wii.
 
[quote name='Sir_Fragalot']Last night I was having to deal with a bunch of idiots. So I was kinda annoyed at something then I read this, lol. It only brought that rage back up, either way this guy is a royal asshole for not believing in the Wii.[/QUOTE]


So you are not allowed to have any doubts in the wii? The wii has many problems going for it right now, and I agree with alot of what the Sega guy is saying.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']So you are not allowed to have any doubts in the wii? The wii has many problems going for it right now, and I agree with alot of what the Sega guy is saying.[/quote]

Now you've done it............. NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!

(total recall reference)
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']So you are not allowed to have any doubts in the wii? The wii has many problems going for it right now, and I agree with alot of what the Sega guy is saying.[/quote]No widespread hardware issues, sales are great, the only problem it really has it software. Which is correctable if developers who don't think they can get anything out of the system would stop porting shit over to take advantage of the user base and just go sell less on the PS3 since it has so much potential.
 
No widespread hardware issues, sales are great, the only problem it really has it software.
Click to expand...

Same for PS3 minus the sales which are merely good, however game outlook is better for the moment for PS3.
 
Why is the Wii going to die a horrible death and fade out to the glory that is the 360/PS3? Let me guess. It has something to do with HD and Widescreen. Am I right? Or is that that the Wii's Graphicz Sux0rzz?

The fact is that people don't seem to accept history and realize that the best graphics, HD, widescreen and fastest processor don't win the console war. It's about games, fun and price. Not whether a game supports your precious $10,000 TV or has bump mapping. This applies to both consoles and handhelds. There is no difference.

And wii gamers have a right to be angry because there is an ungodly amount of fanboys talking out of their ass about how the wii will "run out of steam" or is popular because people are stupid or will be the end of "Real" gaming. The amount of shit talking against the Wii has been unprecedented.
 
[quote name='botticus']No widespread hardware issues[/QUOTE]


I saw many people from CAG have graphical issues that required them to send off their Wii. Mine has been perfect though.

Questioning the software and how it will hold up in the long run are legitimate questions if you ask me.
 
Why are you such a graphics-whore Scrub?

No one even mentioned graphics. Stop bringing up that lame excuse.

And yes, Wii has limited hardware issues with the ATI card. Seen it on every board, but doesn't look too big.
 
[quote name='dallow']Same for PS3 minus the sales which are merely good, however game outlook is better for the moment for PS3.[/QUOTE]

Wow, just wow.

1. The PS3 is 100% guaranteed to overheat without massive amounts of ventilation. It's been proven time and time again. The wii has overheated for a few people and it's not guaranteed.

2. PS3 sales are "good"? Are you working for Sony marketing now because I'm sure they don't think their sales are good? Especially after they dumped that shitload of money into it, and have lost more than they've invested.

3. Completely subjective and not worth arguing. I wouldn't buy an upcoming PS3 title for more than $20 out of the bargain bin, and I wouldn't buy MGS4 if it was the last game on earth.
 
[quote name='dallow']Self-explanitory.[/quote]

No, it isn't. Ill play dumb. Please explain to me why we can't relate the DS control scheme to the Wii control scheme. Both were novel concepts that had doubts about their ability to play games during their first year (gimmicky).
 
[quote name='dallow']Same for PS3 minus the sales which are merely good, however game outlook is better for the moment for PS3.[/quote]

For who? You? The game outlook on the Wii is much better to me than the PS3 or the 360. Don't post your opinion as fact or something that a majority agrees with.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']So you are not allowed to have any doubts in the wii? The wii has many problems going for it right now, and I agree with alot of what the Sega guy is saying.[/quote]Of course you can doubt the Wii, but he doesn't seem too crediable on his statement. He never stated his view if Wii fixed the problems. If Sega had the same mindset if the Wii had little to no problems I would respect them on their decision. I agree with some of his points too about the Wii, I know the Wii has problems every Wii game I bought so far has been lackluster for the exception of Zelda, Paper Mario and Warioware. My biggest problem with this article is he sounds like a PS3 fanboy saying because the PS3 has better graphics and more power it is instantly better and will sell more because of it. I just can't believe him because he sounds like a PS3 fanboy.
 
You have to understand that Sega has a bunch of games in the work for the 360/PS3 and it would not be in their best interests to see the PS3/360 fail.

You do understand that?

It has nothing to do with whether he likes the Wii or not. It's about cash flow baby.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Wow, just wow.

1. The PS3 is 100% guaranteed to overheat without massive amounts of ventilation. It's been proven time and time again. The wii has overheated for a few people and it's not guaranteed.

2. PS3 sales are "good"? Are you working for Sony marketing now because I'm sure they don't think their sales are good? Especially after they dumped that shitload of money into it, and have lost more than they've invested.

3. Completely subjective and not worth arguing. I wouldn't buy an upcoming PS3 title for more than $20 out of the bargain bin, and I wouldn't buy MGS4 if it was the last game on earth.[/quote]

1. Massive? Man you should see where my poor PS3 is stored. Haha, I was a bit afraid at first, but it's been on 24/7 for the last week.
I like that about it. I'm not one bit afraid to just leave it on doing it's thing.
Wii has overheated, but I'm talking about the ATI problems that you have to actually replace your Wii for. Search the thread.
I've only ever seen 1 damn thead about a PS3 dying. Over on NeoGaf. I said it before. PS3s are tanks.

2. They are good. In comparison to the Wii, they suck ass. But then everything does. The PS3 was faring better than the 360 in the same time span, and against competition from the 360 and Wii.
They could be doing better, no shit, and I trust they will.

3. Yeah, garbage. Nice to know though you have a closed mind about games.

For who? You? The game outlook on the Wii is much better to me than the PS3 or the 360. Don't post your opinion as fact or something that a majority agrees with.
Click to expand...
I was being objective when I wrote that. Seems to be more interesting games coming up for PS3 than Wii.
Wii however, lately, I've seen a few new surprises. Pollen Sonata baby!

No, it isn't. Ill play dumb. Please explain to me why we can't relate the DS control scheme to the Wii control scheme. Both were novel concepts that had doubts about their ability to play games during their first year (gimmicky).
Click to expand...
Eh, I never felt the DS was gimmicky, but that's beside the point.
I was saying you can't compare something people play on the road, put in their pocket, to something they enjoy from their couch on the television with or without the family.
Consoles and handhelds are different markets with different needs and wants.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']I am at a loss for an explanation of how swinging a controller like a sword will become derivative but doing it by pressing X in every single game that has a sword isn't. How will using the wiimote to aim in a first person shooter becoming tiresome and boring, yet aiming with analog sticks isn't?

Will someone explain this double standard for me?

There are so many damn uses for the wii remote if game companies would excercise (and allow) a little creativity. Many more ideas can be brought to life than on your typical game control.[/QUOTE]

The double standard comes from the idea that the Wii is unproven and the X button has been proven. Furthermore, the Wiimote wasn't pitched as an alternative way of playing games. It was pitched as the next evolution of how you play games similar to analog being added and the first time we got a D-Pad on a controller. Nintendo established this standard, not us.

I do think that waggle is the next big thing. Also I think that if anyone is to blame for waggle not catching on, it's the game companies not Nintendo. As it stands, Elebits is the latest game I've played so far not from Nintendo that made me say, "hey this waggle thing is pretty cool" rather than "I really wish I had a regular controller to play this". I really, really want the Wii to succeed, but I don't believe it can win after the novelty runs off with the current crop of third party games.

[quote name='Zen Davis']You have to understand that Sega has a bunch of games in the work for the 360/PS3 and it would not be in their best interests to see the PS3/360 fail.

You do understand that?

It has nothing to do with whether he likes the Wii or not. It's about cash flow baby.
[/QUOTE]

Um, someone apparently doesn't understand that as it stands right now Sega games have been as successful on the Wii as any other platform (if not more). I don't think a single Sega game has flopped as badly as Full Auto 2. Furthermore, the game that hardcore Sega nuts are looking forward to the most is a Wii game.
 
Heh, I agree Furyk.
Only been a couple games I've played that made me think that same sentiment rather than 'Wish I had the Cube control'.

I like waggle. I really do. Not as fun as I hoped, but I think that had to do with poor game implementation.
 
SEGA has fully supported the Wii since day one and we continue to do so – it's no secret that we are close partners. Nintendo has done a masterful job of selling its vision and expanding the market. That said, it's a shared responsibility and opportunity for the whole industry to take advantage of the possibilities of the Wii. If we don't realize its true potential, we will have missed a great opportunity to expand creatively and that is what I was cautioning against in the Reuters interview. I'm not just putting the responsibility of innovation on Nintendo. It's on SEGA and all the publishers and developers as well to carry that flag.
Click to expand...

It looks like Scott's bosses and/or Nintendo weren't too happy. This "clarification" came mighty quick I would say. LOL.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16523
 
I have to wonder how relevant it really is to say that the PS3 is doing better than the 360 during the same time frame. How you are doing is always relative to how your competitors are doing, and the 360 had none until just recently.

Its not as useful to compare the two scenarios under those conditions.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I have to wonder how relevant it really is to say that the PS3 is doing better than the 360 during the same time frame. How you are doing is always relative to how your competitors are doing, and the 360 had none until just recently.

Its not as useful to compare the two scenarios under those conditions.[/quote]

How is that not useful?
It means people now have a choice, and a substantial amount chose the PS3 with money that could have gone to a 360 or a Wii.
Whereas before, all you had to choose for 'next-gen' was the 360. Both systems are doing well, I expect one to stumble soon.
 
Hah very nice...we sure have seen this happen quite frequently whenever someone comments about the Wii.

For someone who is up there in there marketing department, they sure don't know how to convey what they truly mean the first time around....but then again I guess that's how it is with all their marketing departments and not just Sega.
 
What I'm trying to say is, how the 360 was doing last year isnt relevant. Its how both Wii and 360 are doing NOW. I mean, I suppose NEXT year you might say that the PS3 is doing better than the 360 THIS year, with both blowing PS3 out of the water, but that seems to misrepresent how they are doing.
 
What it represents that it isn't as much doom as people love to say it is for the PS3.
I think it's just fine to compare, we love to compare things.
 
Hey now, theres still PLENTY of doom leftover. For a while it was Sega, then apparently for a while it was Nintendo. Someone must still be doomed!
 
These are valid concerns about the Wii. Will the novelty of the Wii controller run its course, or will its utility and uniqueness be sustainable through the Wii's life? And if the controller's appeal wears off, what are the features of the system that set it apart from the competition?

What does Wii have going for it? It has the controller, Nintendo titles, and price. It also has less graphical capability than the original Xbox. When 360 and PS3 decline in price to say, $199, what mass market appeal is left?

Remember, he's not looking at this from a consumer's perspective, he's thinking about how Sega can make money. And from that standpoint, these are very serious concerns.

Ultimately it'll come down to the overall Wii experience, if the controller continues to be enjoyable with a large stable of quality games that make use of it, it will succeed. But, you need to have the confidence of the major 3rd party developers in order to get those titles.
 
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