Shame behind Guitar Hero success.

[quote name='nyprimus4']Summarize please.[/QUOTE]


the Guitar Hero franchise has grossed almost a billion dollars and the guys who recorded the tracks got paid $300 per song. The music production company that Activision hired doesn't get any royalties associated with the work they did recording the tracks, but there's nothing they can do but be happy they can put it on their resume.

I just skimmed it but I think the point the article is making is that this could indicate a situation where more behind-the-scenes work on a huge project like Guitar Hero hardly gets compensated due to a huge supply of talent and options like outsourcing work to China or India.
 
So, I'm sure you feel that a gaffer on a movie set should get a percentage of the movie's profits instead of working for scale?
 
[quote name='62t']the real shame is they took the idea from Konami's Guitar Freaks, made it accessible to the general gaming public, marketed it way better, and deservingly sold a shitton of copies..[/quote]Fixed.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Fixed.[/quote]

Agreed. Konami USA should have jumped in as soon as they realized it was profitable. They dropped the ball.

Thinking about it though music is the one thing that people (gamer or not) universally like. Why didn't they give Guitar Freaks a chance?
 
[quote name='DQT']Agreed. Konami USA should have jumped in as soon as they realized it was profitable. They dropped the ball.

Thinking about it though music is the one thing that people (gamer or not) universally like. Why didn't they give Guitar Freaks a chance?[/quote]
they probably even got the idea of rockband from the guitar freaks+drummania game that you could play together.
 
except konami dropped the ball on the guitar hero thing, while harmonix did it right for the american market and profited from their risks. Besides, the guitar hero core gameplay has as much in common with amplitude/frequency as it does guitar freaks, controller aside.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']So, I'm sure you feel that a gaffer on a movie set should get a percentage of the movie's profits instead of working for scale?[/QUOTE]


That analogy sucks. The talent that recorded the music is analogous to the actors in a movie. i.e. they made the game what it is. Nobody is saying they should get 50%, just more than $300. The article doesn't completely side with them though--they do point out that there isn't a decent union for this kind of talent in Silicon Valley.
 
[quote name='evanft']Wait wait wait...are we just talking about the company that rerecorded songs for the game?[/QUOTE]


i guess i'm the only one who read the article...
 
[quote name='Apossum']That analogy sucks. The talent that recorded the music is analogous to the actors in a movie. i.e. they made the game what it is. Nobody is saying they should get 50%, just more than $300. The article doesn't completely side with them though--they do point out that there isn't a decent union for this kind of talent in Silicon Valley.[/quote]I don't know that I'd go that far. It's more of a guy doing an impression of an actor playing a part in the movie.

Not that it's too different, but it was one step removed from a real actor in a movie.
 
I'm certain that gamers will band together, unite as one, and refuse to buy Activision/Guitar Hero products until they profit share. It's what gamers do.
 
[quote name='daroga']I don't know that I'd go that far. It's more of a guy doing an impression of an actor playing a part in the movie.

Not that it's too different, but it was one step removed from a real actor in a movie.[/QUOTE]


The stuntman? :) in any case, not the gaffer.


[quote name='mykevermin']I'm certain that gamers will band together, unite as one, and refuse to buy Activision/Guitar Hero products until they profit share. It's what gamers do. [/quote]


"This is what nerdocracy looks like!" :lol:

the EA_Spouse story created some change, maybe this article will too. Though I guess that was a real situation and this is more about a potential situation...
 
if it said they would get paid 300$ in their contract, why would activision give them more money than that? are businesses giving away free money now cause I would like some lol.
 
[quote name='Apossum']the Guitar Hero franchise has grossed almost a billion dollars and the guys who recorded the tracks got paid $300 per song. The music production company that Activision hired doesn't get any royalties associated with the work they did recording the tracks, but there's nothing they can do but be happy they can put it on their resume.
They way this should work is as follows:

Activision: 'Hey can you record some cover songs for a music game we're making?'

Wave Group Sound: 'Sure, that'll be $300 per track'

Afterwords, Guitar Hero goes on to sell a bajillion copies...

Activision: 'Hey can you record some cover songs for a sequel to a wildly successful music game we're making?'

Wave Group Sound: 'Sure, that'll be $30,000 per track'
 
well I just read most of the article and it sounds pretty dumb. an underpaid artist? oh I've never heard of that before, I feel so bad for them... not. so the guys got paid 300$ per song, and I think it said each song was 2-3 hours, which to me, aint that bad. I'm sure it's a lot more than many people are making. it's not like activision put a gun to his head and said work for us at this rate or else. he had a choice and if there is a lot of talent that can do it, then why would activision pay people 5000$ for a song when there are a ton of people that will do it for 300$.

and just because a company made a LOT of money with a product doesnt mean that they're obligated to go down to every person who worked on it and give them a small percentage. if you were working on a project and it failed miserably and lost a lot of money, would you like your company to come claim some of your money to cover a percentage of the losses?

the article is pretty retarded and so are you if you go along with that drivel. I guess the author had to really scramble for something to meet his deadline.
 
I read the article, but frankly.....I don't care....and I'm not buying their arguement.

These are cover bands. Why should someone who does a cover of War Pigs get a $50,000 payday??? Thats retarded...........if anything, they should get $300...and then the Sabbath franchise should split the licensing percentages.

Hearing cover bands complain about not getting royalties boggles the mind.
 
[quote name='Apossum']That analogy sucks. The talent that recorded the music is analogous to the actors in a movie. i.e. they made the game what it is. Nobody is saying they should get 50%, just more than $300. [/quote]
Not when their talent is not unique. The people playing the tracks on Guitar Hero aren't Tom Cruise, they're not even Clint Howard. They're the anonymous extra that played "Guy at counter #3"--those guys get scale. If there was only one person in the world who could play "School's Out", then the gig should pay handsomly. If there's 40,000 other people who can do it just as well, not so much.
 
Hum so what? THEY agree'd on the price, either way if the game failed or sucessed they got the same pay. The game did sell alot of copies, thanks to activision, not them.

They got paid for there work. End of story.
 
[quote name='Puffa469'][quote name='Apossum']the Guitar Hero franchise has grossed almost a billion dollars and the guys who recorded the tracks got paid $300 per song. The music production company that Activision hired doesn't get any royalties associated with the work they did recording the tracks, but there's nothing they can do but be happy they can put it on their resume.
They way this should work is as follows:

Activision: 'Hey can you record some cover songs for a music game we're making?'

Wave Group Sound: 'Sure, that'll be $300 per track'

Afterwords, Guitar Hero goes on to sell a bajillion copies...

Activision: 'Hey can you record some cover songs for a sequel to a wildly successful music game we're making?'

Wave Group Sound: 'Sure, that'll be $30,000 per track'


the point is that they can't do that since another company will come up and say "we'll do it for $300." These performers aren't organized.

I read the article, but frankly.....I don't care....and I'm not buying their arguement.

These are cover bands. Why should someone who does a cover of War Pigs get a $50,000 payday??? Thats retarded...........if anything, they should get $300...and then the Sabbath franchise should split the licensing percentages.

Hearing cover bands complain about not getting royalties boggles the mind.

yes, they are cover songs, but the cover group's work is being sold and used over and over. Performers get royalties when their work is used. In this case, these performers are covering work previously done, but all that means is that Activision should be paying both Sabbath Inc. and the people who worked on the flawless cover that's making their game famous. It has nothing to do with artistic originality or anything like that-- it's still work and royalties are in order.


well I just read most of the article and it sounds pretty dumb. an underpaid artist? oh I've never heard of that before, I feel so bad for them... not. so the guys got paid 300$ per song, and I think it said each song was 2-3 hours, which to me, aint that bad. I'm sure it's a lot more than many people are making. it's not like activision put a gun to his head and said work for us at this rate or else. he had a choice and if there is a lot of talent that can do it, then why would activision pay people 5000$ for a song when there are a ton of people that will do it for 300$.

and just because a company made a LOT of money with a product doesnt mean that they're obligated to go down to every person who worked on it and give them a small percentage. if you were working on a project and it failed miserably and lost a lot of money, would you like your company to come claim some of your money to cover a percentage of the losses?

the article is pretty retarded and so are you if you go along with that drivel. I guess the author had to really scramble for something to meet his deadline.


ummm...er...well, just try not to post too much.
 
[quote name='Apossum']The stuntman? :) in any case, not the gaffer.[/quote]Actually, the stuntman is probably a good analogy. A stand in for the real people. I'd imagine they do their work for hire most times. If the people who recorded those tracks are really upset, they really should be upset at themselves for not getting a better contract.

Companies in any business aren't generally known for saying, "Oh, this was wildly successful! Let's give everyone who helped make it MORE money than we have to!"
 
So I play a near perfect Guitar Hero 2 song at Best Buy, could I get paid for my 'public performance'?

Next Up: The unionization ans impending strike of the MBMG (Make-Believe musicians Guild)
 
[quote name='Apossum']The stuntman? :) in any case, not the gaffer.





"This is what nerdocracy looks like!" :lol:

the EA_Spouse story created some change, maybe this article will too. Though I guess that was a real situation and this is more about a potential situation...[/quote]Yes, because ever since EA Spouse, Electronic Arts has really been struggling to sell games! Funny, where are all these EA Haters now? Probably playing Rock Band or The Orange Box.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Yes, because ever since EA Spouse, Electronic Arts has really been struggling to sell games! Funny, where are all these EA Haters now? Probably playing Rock Band or The Orange Box.[/quote]I hope they're not playing the Orange Box that EA actually had a hand in making...
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Yes, because ever since EA Spouse, Electronic Arts has really been struggling to sell games! Funny, where are all these EA Haters now? Probably playing Rock Band or The Orange Box.[/QUOTE]


Leave it to VG to misinterpret an issue about working conditions as one about fanboyism when EA is involved:
http://www.news.com/Overtime-coming-to-Electronic-Arts/2100-1022_3-5611293.html?tag=nw.14

Actually, the stuntman is probably a good analogy. A stand in for the real people. I'd imagine they do their work for hire most times. If the people who recorded those tracks are really upset, they really should be upset at themselves for not getting a better contract.

Companies in any business aren't generally known for saying, "Oh, this was wildly successful! Let's give everyone who helped make it MORE money than we have to!"

in full agreement there.

The artists don't seem pissed though...the author of the article seems to find it more appalling. It seems like the artists understand what their contract was and the author is saying "you guys are getting ripped, get organized next time because this could be more lucrative. or else it will become the norm to get paid jack shit for this kind of work." I think they should get some kind of royalties on each copy sold, even if it's like 10 cents a copy to the production company.
 
theres no shame in paying a company an agreed price for a service. If wavegroup wanted more money, they could have asked for it upfront, and if their price was too high, then i'm sure one of the other thousands of recording studios in the world would have done it for cheaper.
 
[quote name='Apossum']The artists don't seem pissed though...the author of the article seems to find it more appalling. It seems like the artists understand what their contract was and the author is saying "you guys are getting ripped, get organized next time because this could be more lucrative. or else it will become the norm to get paid jack shit for this kind of work." I think they should get some kind of royalties on each copy sold, even if it's like 10 cents a copy to the production company.[/QUOTE]

The ultimate question is, however: is it even feasible for musicians to organize in such a meaningful way?
 
My local newspaper did an article on Guitar Hero's Wave Group and how their game became successful, but at the same time cut some people out of the loop. Interesting article. Discuss.

http://www.metroactive.com/metro/11.21.07/cover-guitarhero-0747.html

Sweatshop Silicon Valley

A hit video game with an ugly secret raises the question: Can the high-tech creative class become the new underclass?
By DK Sweet


If archaeologists excavate our society a thousand years from now, one wonders what they'll make of a guitar-shaped device with push buttons instead of strings. Their bafflement will no doubt increase if the episode of 'South Park' survives which compares playing the device to shooting heroin. They will wonder how and why a big chunk of society seemed to have, momentarily at least, lost its mind over a plastic toy tied to something with computer chips inside.

Ask most anyone who has played the video game phenomenon Guitar Hero even a few times, and be prepared for gushing praise. Everyone from nongamer twentysomethings to preteen girls to middle-aged men speak of it in terms you wouldn't normally associate with a mere game. Bryan Cole, a fortysomething consultant for Sunnyvale's SigmaQuest, describes the transcendent enjoyment so many apparently get playing the game.
"Oh, it's just ridiculously fun," he says before going on excitedly about the game for another minute. His previous mild-mannered demeanor morphs into arms-waving enthusiasm. He actually uses the adjective "visceral" at one point to describe it.

"There's nothing like it," he says. "It really feels like you're playing all this great music. It's totally addicting."

Fourteen-year-old Cheyton Whiskey got turned on to the game at a friend's house and "fell in love" as he puts it. Cheyton wasn't a novice to video games, but puts Guitar Hero in a category all its own: "I definitely enjoy Guitar Hero a lot more than anything else I've ever played," he says. The viral nature of the game's astonishing growth in popularity over the last year comes out when I ask the young teen how many of his friends have played it. "A good majority of my friends have played it. It's their favorite game now, too."

Whiskey has a particular fondness for the music: "My dad turned me on to bands like the Doors and Creedence when I was younger, so I like the classic rock music in the game."

Those sentiments, and particularly the latter, make video game music producer Will Littlejohn smile with satisfaction.

"I feel really fortunate to be part of Guitar Hero, because it allows people to enjoy some of the greatest songs around in a whole new way," Littlejohn says. While you might expect that from the guy who pays the rent doing music for Guitar Hero and other music-related games, Littlejohn is a true evangelist for an entertainment he believes has an almost soulful value.

Of course, Littlejohn—along with Wave Group Sound, the production company he founded—has little choice but to rejoice primarily in the nonfinancial rewards from Guitar Hero. By the standards of the entertainment business outside the game industry, his company, plus all the singers and musicians contracted by Wave Group, supplied the major portion of what makes the game series so enjoyable.

But financially, they got left in the dust.

And so did many other little-known musicians and singers who contributed to Guitar Hero and its follow-up versions—at the same time that other contributors were receiving ceiling-high stacks of cash. How high does that ceiling reach? According to VGcharts.com, various incarnations of Guitar Hero III occupy all but fourth place in the top five rankings of American video game sales. That success mirrors the monster footprints left by the first two versions of the game. Total sales approach a billion dollars.
Trouble in the Creative Class

Los Angeles and Silicon Valley are both places where it's way better to be on top, but most of the rest of us still drink from the same overpriced cup of Starbucks, regardless. The very idea of "abused workers" seems almost absurd in places much of the world views as two of the wealthiest and most talent-friendly places on earth.

The seemingly endless success stories coming from both regions produces a gold-rush mentality. In L.A., it's the waiter with a screenplay. Here, the rags-to-riches cliché is the receptionist with stock options. Marketable talent is the coin of the realm down south, while here getting hired by the right company at the right time can be the key to the early, wealthy retirement of which no Hollywood receptionist would ever dare dream.

There's always been a dark side to the dream. Down south, entertainment industry workers famously nicknamed Disney Inc. "Mousewitz" for that company's stance on wages and working conditions. Rock bands seeking attention in Los Angeles get reduced to paying clubs for "stage space" and having to sell tickets to their own shows.

In Silicon Valley, stories about janitors getting the shaft from hugely successful tech firms littered the business pages for years. In many cases those same subcontracted janitors were cleaning up the gourmet cafeteria meal remnants left by the kind of "information workers" over which companies intensely compete for still. An alleged shortage of such workers even necessitates importing highly educated folks with technical skills from India, Asia and other regions. The bottom line: play a front-line role creating electronic stuff that makes big money and nobody screws with you.

But the ugly story behind the creation of the Guitar Hero video game series may be the harbinger of a new Silicon Valley. Could we become a place where making millions off grossly underpaid local creative talent makes even the brass-knuckle accountants at Disney green with envy?
Keep Your Head Down

Sound melodramatic? Meet "Alan." Like all the people interviewed for this story who lent their musical talents to the producers and publishers of the most successful video game in recent history, he's afraid to use his real name. Just like the New York or Hong Kong sweatshop worker, he fears a replacement will step in the instant he complains about making only $300 per song on Guitar Hero I and II. When you're not making bank the chump change matters even more here in expensive Silicon Valley.
He's afraid for his friends too.

"I'm not going to complain, because that could jeopardize other people's jobs" Alan says. He looks at his contribution to Guitar Hero philosophically, like an intern who landed a summer job with a big company might. "I got a great demo out of it and hopefully that will turn into something." Pretty game attitude for a musician with over twenty years of experience.

GuitarHero2.jpg
Can't get there from 'Hero' : Screen shots from 'Guitar Hero III,' the latest in a franchise that has cut many contributors out of the profits.


How hard was the work?


"Those sessions kicked my ass, and it took a toll for a couple days afterwards." Alan recalls about the effect it had on his voice. "Wave Group has extremely high standards for all their game work so every syllable, every trill, gets microscopically scrutinized. We're talking countless takes over two or three hours for each finished song. By the end of the session, your voice is hurtin' for certain."

Littlejohn is proud of the results and especially the degree to which the finished product sounds as good as the original classic rock tracks. Fans of the game seem to agree and Alan confirms that assessment with an anecdote about listening to the radio one morning. "KFOX played one of the Guitar Hero tracks I sang on over the phone for one of the members of the band who recorded the original version. The guy said he thought it was their version and KFOX was playing a joke on him."

Outside the walls of Wave Group, Alan enjoys an exceptional distinction as a "one take" vocalist in recording sessions. So two to three hours per song is an aberration of exponential proportions for him.

"Let's put it this way. I feel like I earned every penny of that session fee" the veteran singer asserts.

Intellectual property in Los Angeles is often protected with union contracts, royalties or back-end deals. That Alan's performances aren't compensated with even a fraction of a penny every time a Guitar Hero game prominently bearing his voice is sold is undoubtedly sweet music to the management at Activision, the nearly $1.5 billion dollar game software developer now headquartered in Santa Monica. It's a lovely beach town filled with people receiving "mailbox money" from acting, singing, writing and other things that generate more customers and more income over time. According to L.A.-based songwriter, composer and film orchestrator Tom Mgrdichian, "residuals keep creative people from falling into poverty between gigs."

Who is getting rich off Silicon Valley's new sweatshop economy? Certainly not Littlejohn's company, which might best be compared to the janitorial contracting companies Big Tech hired to avoid paying decent wages and benefits to the people cleaning their buildings. Both businesses provide services essentially for flat fees and while their owners do better than employees, nobody gets rich. Littlejohn points out he drives a 2003 Ford Escape and that the musicians he hires are well paid compared to the area norm.

Other contributors to Guitar Hero did better. Figures weren't released, but when Activision bought out the owners of original publisher Red Octane a few months ago for about $100 million, founders Kai and Charles Huang, who played a big role in inventing the game and its guitar shaped controller, no doubt got a nice payday. If total sales of Guitar Hero are anywhere near the nine million units it's said to be, the franchise may reach a billion dollars in gross retail sales by Christmas.

Could the Huangs, Red Octane/Activision afford to be more generous with the talent that made them so much dinero? Let's put it this way: if Alan received one-thousandth of 1 percent of Guitar Hero's gross revenue, it would provide a $6,000 down payment on a car to replace his limping 15-year-old car. One-tenth of 1 percent stake would enable Alan to move out of his 600-square-foot rental into a condo on San Jose's East Side without a mortgage. Virtually any decent level of residuals would help him pay for the college tuition his daughter will shortly need.

But unless Activison experiences a sudden attack of conscience, neither Alan nor any of his fellow musicians will see another penny for their hugely successful work regardless of how many more units sell. Why is that?
In short, Alan and his fellow musicians made the mistake of wanting to live and make money off their entertainment skills in Silicon Valley. In Los Angeles, it's nearly impossible to be employed on a TV or major movie set without the protection of a labor union that is enormously powerful by Silicon Valley standards. Even writers, who are about as far from the "front line" as one can get, enjoy union protection as the writers strike underscores. This makes Southern California an expensive place to produce entertainment, and many a low- and medium-budget production exits to Canada or to more affordable, less unionized, parts of the United States.

For the overwhelming percentage of mainstream entertainment projects, front-line talent is compensated more when a particular show or movie earns more. This is even true in some corners of L.A.'s video game industry. Voice-over talent (well known Hollywood actors in many cases) receives big flat fees and often residuals for work on video games.

Not so here in "digital entertainment capital of the world." In Silicon Valley, the musician's union in particular is as close to a total joke as one could imagine. Besides bothering nonunion wedding band musicians at government-owned venues or playing a minor role in local symphony contract negotiations, the union seems invisible, powerless and irrelevant. Unless you own stock in the company for which you toil, or receive overtime pay, tips or sales commissions, you're working for a flat, monthly fee.

So when Guitar Hero publisher Red Octane came to Littlejohn's Fremont production company requesting a quote for producing the music for the first two of an eventual three versions of Guitar Hero, "L.A. things" like residual payments for the musicians and singers never entered the picture. Nobody even thought about getting any grief from the union.
Your Own Personal Sweatshop?

What lessons should other members of Silicon Valley's so-called "creative class" draw from Activision-Red Octane's treatment of musicians and singers here? Is a gleaming two-story office building concealing a "creative sweatshop" headed your way?

One answer comes from New York Times columnist and noted author Thomas Friedman. In his seminal book about globalization, The World Is Flat, Freidman observed: "If I can buy five brilliant researchers in China and/or India for the price of one in Europe or America, I will buy the five; and if, in the long run, that means my own society loses part of its skills base, so be it." Replace "researcher" with "IT worker" and one sees the brutally efficient logic that put thousands of college educated, highly skilled, local information technology workers out of work, many permanently. Is there any reason to believe American musicians and other creative types are somehow insulated from the same fate?

According to a recent Zogby poll, more than half the American population believes we're a country "in decline." A lot of the media and many politicians focus on outsourcing as a main source of that consternation. Perhaps there's better explanation for that depressing state of mind. Maybe it's the emerging reality few of us are prepared to compete in a world where no one even stops to consider whether 1/10,000th of 1 percent in sales revenue would be better distributed to a worker than to thousands of stockholders. In that context, what country the workers come from and how many crumbs each get to eat from a particular bare bones flat fee contract is almost beside the point.
According to Freidman, musicians and singers getting recording session pay rates considered "good" by Hollywood or even Silicon Valley's low standards should realize their English-speaking potential replacements in India are but a Skype call away. The number of Mumbai-based music producers happy to provide Activision and other game firms with music for a 10th the price paid to U.S. contract producers is plenty long. Despite all those American flag lapels adorning suit lapels of corporate managers, Brownie points and promotions get awarded for lowering costs and increasing profits and not doing right by the home team.

Another answer comes from Hollywood. If you've ever tried to arrange the participation of a famous, or once-famous, American artist in an untested entertainment form for a share of the proceeds you know a returned call is rare. So almost without exception, when Guitar Hero I was a mere idea being developed by then-little-known companies, big name acts—or more accurately their representatives—weren't the least bit interested in being, quite literally, part of the game. Fast-forward two games and a half-billion dollars later and these same people are climbing over each other to get their "classic" songs from decades past licensed into Guitar Hero's monster cash-generating machine. Big Entertainment's cowardly and craven sensibilities demand a sure thing and the rising fortunes of the Guitar Hero franchise is just the kind of sure bet the entertainment industry loves.

Ironically, Littlejohn and his band of merry music makers may have put themselves out of business by helping make Guitar Hero too enjoyable, too popular and too profitable for the pimps with 90210 addresses to keep ignoring. Piling irony upon irony, Alan watched the South Park "Guitar Hero" episode and noted the series producers misrepresented the actual game soundtrack by using the original Kansas' version of "Carry On Wayward Son" as opposed to the "play-enhanced" version Wave Group produced for the game. "That's pretty funny if you think about it," he says without a trace of bitterness at circumstances that made yet another "residual performance" payday unobtainable.

Video games now bring in more cash than the music and movie industries combined. But without the regular pay and health benefits that come with, say, a 9-to-5 job animating games for a company such as Redwood City's Electronic Arts, freelance musicians and singers who perform on video games here are, essentially, Silicon Valley's newest janitors, maybe to be replaced one day by India's. If you believe companies like Activision and other game companies wouldn't mind expanding that distinction to other members of the supposedly protected "creative class," take a hint from the title of a Judas Priest song included on Guitar Hero I: "You Got Another Thing Comin'."
 
How much do the real bands get for having their song in the game?
 
That was longer than I expected. I'll say this, do I feel bad for them? Yes, but they made a bad deal. It's kind of their own fault, you see it with singers and other artists everyday. TLC claimed bankruptcy when they were at their peak. There's plenty of other examples, but it's kind of late for me to think of them. Broker a better deal next time, I'm sorry, but that's kind of how business works. They're not called starving artists for nothing.

If they don't like the way they're treated or compensated, there's other businesses they can get into. No one is forcing them to be "with the band". That said, yeah, I'd be pissed too. I feel bad for them, I enjoy the work they do and I would like to hear that they were being fairly compensated for it, but I guarantee you no matter what you do, if you're not at the top of the totem pole, you're at the bottom of the scrotum pole. That's the way it is.

Edit: Just realized this was already posted here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160987
 
Good article. That is exactly the way things operate in Silicon Valley.

The fact that the songs are cover versions has nothing to do with it.
If it was original work they still would have gotten the same shaft.
I have seen plenty of firsthand examples myself that I won't go into.

If Wave Group had asked for more $$ Activision probably would have gotten
someone else to do it, and the music in the game most likely wouldn't have been
as good. Doesn't mean the game would have been less successful though, who can say...
 
Newsflash to the Konami downers: THEY ONLY ADDED TWO FRETS AND MADE THE SOUNDTRACK FROM ONLY ONE-GENRE (sort of).

Konami's game isn't bullshit hard and has a variety of genres which USE the guitar, not strictly abide to one (or two) genres.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']Newsflash to the Konami downers: THEY ONLY ADDED TWO FRETS AND MADE THE SOUNDTRACK FROM ONLY ONE-GENRE (sort of).

Konami's game isn't bullshit hard and has a variety of genres which USE the guitar, not strictly abide to one (or two) genres.[/QUOTE]

Actually Guitar freaks is bullshit hard and very intimidating to newcomers. Guitar sounds in guitar hero and Rock band are far superior and the game is basically just more fun to play. Konami failed through stagnation....
 
Konami sucks at music/rhythm games IMO.

Just look at DDR. They have no idea what to do with it or where to go with it...
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The ultimate question is, however: is it even feasible for musicians to organize in such a meaningful way?[/QUOTE]


and one that's miles out of my league.
 
Actually Guitar freaks is bullshit hard and very intimidating to newcomers.

Nothing is stopping Konami from structuring the game since the game's inception in Japan to be done all over again in the U.S., just with a different songlist and not to mention a larger one than before. This is why beatmania US was a hard sell (and looks to try again with GOLD's testing).

Guitar sounds in guitar hero and Rock band are far superior

What?

Konami sucks at music/rhythm games IMO.

Just look at DDR. They have no idea what to do with it or where to go with it...

OH GEE, WHAT'S THIS? BEATMANIA IIDX, POP'N MUSIC, GF/DM, PARA PARA...I GUESS THOSE NEVER EXISTED.

Don't post again.

DDR is fine. It's just some douche on the inside is fucking things up for everybody and not listening to the players like they're supposed to.

I guess you never looked at DDR SuperNOVA 2 AC.
 
[quote name='Apossum']and one that's miles out of my league.[/QUOTE]

Likewise; I can see it working if there was an, erm..."composers guild" in gaming. Much like the WGA in television, I suppose. That way you'd avoid John-on-the-street selling songs for $300 per. That may be a possibility.

In the absence of that, since anyone can be a "musician," it's like asking people who "like TV" to band together. Like the futility of that liberal hippie "buy nothing day" claptrap. :lol:

I'm not too convinced of the ability of tech sector/gaming types to unionize. I'm sure the 8-year-old dot com burst still has some people such that you can find an ex-EA programmer working as a shift manager at Burger King in the Tenderloin. A simple "here's how expendable you really are" lesson would quash any thoughts of worker solidarity faster than a fret goes by on TTFAF.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Likewise; I can see it working if there was an, erm..."composers guild" in gaming. Much like the WGA in television, I suppose. That way you'd avoid John-on-the-street selling songs for $300 per. That may be a possibility.

In the absence of that, since anyone can be a "musician," it's like asking people who "like TV" to band together. Like the futility of that liberal hippie "buy nothing day" claptrap. :lol:

I'm not too convinced of the ability of tech sector/gaming types to unionize. I'm sure the 8-year-old dot com burst still has some people such that you can find an ex-EA programmer working as a shift manager at Burger King in the Tenderloin. A simple "here's how expendable you really are" lesson would quash any thoughts of worker solidarity faster than a fret goes by on TTFAF.[/QUOTE]


Maybe something among companies like the singer in the article worked for, could work? That would keep "that guy who's cool because he can play Eruption" outta there :)

As for tech guys, the fear of outsourcing must be a block in the way of unionization. On top of that, the freshly certified guy will gladly take anyone's position.
 
[quote name='porieux']Konami sucks at music/rhythm games IMO.

Just look at DDR. They have no idea what to do with it or where to go with it...[/QUOTE]

Not true either, Konami basically brought these games to the forefront. Harmonix did in fact start off emulating the bemani series (and Red octane shadily sold piece of crap 3rd party controllers and ripped off bemani even more blatantly). Harmonix actually did a decent amount to differentiate their games like amplitude and konami even went to them to make karaoke revolution a better game (Japanese Karaoke revolutions are horrible).

That's why I give some props to Harmonix and none to Red Octane. Red Octane is just lucky they got in bed with some talented devs, but at it's heart it's a mediocre company that was just lucky enough to get bought out by Activision because they owned the Guitar Hero Name.
 
Honestly, if the cover bands in the 80's collection or the guys who did the Nirvana/Iggy Pop vocals got $300 out of it, they should consider themselves very, very lucky.
 
[quote name='porieux']Konami sucks at music/rhythm games IMO.

Just look at DDR. They have no idea what to do with it or where to go with it...[/QUOTE]

If you're referring to the U.S. product now I'd agree. Most of the licensed stuff I won't touch. On the other hand when I checked out the songlist for the Japanese home version of Supernova I was surprisingly pleased. Too bad the American version is shit.
I'm kinda wondering what the Japanese Wii songlist looks like. I'd also like to see the songlist for Strike.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']OH GEE, WHAT'S THIS? BEATMANIA IIDX, POP'N MUSIC, GF/DM, PARA PARA...I GUESS THOSE NEVER EXISTED.

Don't post again.

DDR is fine. It's just some douche on the inside is fucking things up for everybody and not listening to the players like they're supposed to.

I guess you never looked at DDR SuperNOVA 2 AC.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to my ignore list, moron.
 
[quote name='Nohbdy']OH GEE, WHAT'S THIS? BEATMANIA IIDX, POP'N MUSIC, GF/DM, PARA PARA...I GUESS THOSE NEVER EXISTED.

Don't post again.

DDR is fine. It's just some douche on the inside is fucking things up for everybody and not listening to the players like they're supposed to.

I guess you never looked at DDR SuperNOVA 2 AC.[/QUOTE]


I'm not going to argue with an obvious 12 year old, but don't try to tell me what to do, OK?
It would be absolutely hilarious to see you try to talk to me that way in real life...
 
Phew... for a second I thought the article was going to start talking about how Guitar Hero ruins peoples lives and makes them all violent slaves...

I hate media.
 
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