Should CAG allow Gifted Paypal payments?
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Duo_Maxwell
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No. Though most everyone selling most anything asks for payment to be gifted already anyhow. And I really do not mind when people do ask for gifted payment to be honest. If it's a low enough amount or lowball sale I will usually include what is needed to cover fees entirely (perhaps partially in really large sale amounts) as the buyer even though it is technically the seller obligation to asorb the fee.
However, I think it would be bad business for CAG to officially sanction it & expressly allow it. Plus I could be paranoid and don't deal too much on other sites, but I doubt it would take all that much effort on Pyapal's part to figure out what accounts are being used for CAG purchases and start banning/freezing accounts if gifted payments were openly allowed and really happening en masse.
Also I do not like to make gifted payments for my own protection. My understanding has been that you cannot file a dispute or get any restitution on a gift payment. Though I've had nothing but fantastic selling/buying experiences here you can never be 100% sure about what will happen with an online transaction.
Bottomline is this, it violates the policies of Paypal and your user agreement with Paypal. Fact is you are selling goods, which means Paypal fees. If you truely want to avoid Paypal fees then simply do not accept Paypal as a payment method.
However, I think it would be bad business for CAG to officially sanction it & expressly allow it. Plus I could be paranoid and don't deal too much on other sites, but I doubt it would take all that much effort on Pyapal's part to figure out what accounts are being used for CAG purchases and start banning/freezing accounts if gifted payments were openly allowed and really happening en masse.
Also I do not like to make gifted payments for my own protection. My understanding has been that you cannot file a dispute or get any restitution on a gift payment. Though I've had nothing but fantastic selling/buying experiences here you can never be 100% sure about what will happen with an online transaction.
Bottomline is this, it violates the policies of Paypal and your user agreement with Paypal. Fact is you are selling goods, which means Paypal fees. If you truely want to avoid Paypal fees then simply do not accept Paypal as a payment method.
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It should be highly discouraged and expressly explained that you can get screwed over by using it, as well as the fact that it goes against the terms intended by Paypal, but...
...it shouldn't be enforced by CAG. (or disallowed to mention it in trade threads)
I honestly don't understand the logistics behind Paypal having it as such an easy-to-use option, but so long as it's there and I'm confident in the payment (eg: payment for a code I've already redeemed), I'll always use it even if the recipient doesn't ask me to.
What I DON'T like in the least is being told that a seller cannot ask the buyer to cover the fees. Paypal has created a few options to easily show the buyer exactly what fees will be incurred and allows the buyer to pay them if they so desire.
TL;DR, CAG as an entity may not want to state that it's ok, since it does go against official Paypal policy, but rather should take an "at your own risk" warning stance and walk away.
...it shouldn't be enforced by CAG. (or disallowed to mention it in trade threads)
I honestly don't understand the logistics behind Paypal having it as such an easy-to-use option, but so long as it's there and I'm confident in the payment (eg: payment for a code I've already redeemed), I'll always use it even if the recipient doesn't ask me to.
What I DON'T like in the least is being told that a seller cannot ask the buyer to cover the fees. Paypal has created a few options to easily show the buyer exactly what fees will be incurred and allows the buyer to pay them if they so desire.
TL;DR, CAG as an entity may not want to state that it's ok, since it does go against official Paypal policy, but rather should take an "at your own risk" warning stance and walk away.
I agree. I think basically the current policy plus "if both parties agree to gifted payment, do so at your own risk".
Duo_Maxwell
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That is basically what is already done. If you read the sticky rule while it says prohibited in the title the thing is basically one giant warning letter about the paypal rule not CAG's stance on it as such. In fact the current CAG post even states:
"In the negotiations for the price of an item or items, please work out who should pay the Paypal fees in working out the terms of the deal, though Paypal obviously collects the fee off the recipient's side of the transaction."
So CAG isn't really even enforcing this rule as written by Paypal now, nor should they really have to. Yet it should be noted that accounting for the fees as a seller is exactly what you sign up for when you open a Paypal account. Persoanlly I could care less about them charging a fee because they provide a service and they do not want to do it for free. (I think they charge perhaps a bit too much, but that's not the point of this thread.) That said there's plenty of alternatives available nowadays, so If someone disagrees with the Paypal practices then I do not see why they'd choose to accept them as a payment method.
Still I agree with the "at your own risk" mentality. We are civil adults (or mature enough to act the part at least), so I feel we can negotiate payment terms like civil adults. In the cases where that cannot happen then so be it, we will deal with like we always do. But as stated above I simply do not see the benefit of CAG as a business or community openly giving the go ahead to do gift Paypal payments which go expressly against its terms. It only seems like it would just create further risk for CAG and for us as its users.
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As it stands right now, if someone were to mention in their Trade Thread: "$5 gifted Paypal", it would have to be removed (or deleted by a moderator). Asking for gifted payment is the equivalent of trying to sell modded consoles under current CAG policy.
thelonepig
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Doesn't stop folks from strong-arming you to use it on a sale or to outright deny a sale if you don't sends gifted payments. There are several deals I've passed because the seller refused to take anything but gifted payments.
PayPal used to state in the TOS that a transaction fee could be assessed by the buyer so long as it applied to all electronic payment types. I haven't checked to see if that's still the case, but that may be an option for sellers.
As already stated, CAG should be upholding (not enforcing - there is a difference) the PayPal TOS. If CAG were to outright promote/encourage/state that personal payments are allowed, it would be inappropriate. If CAG wants to allow such, the site should be silent on the issue and let its members police themselves. Either way, I'll stick to my current policy of following PayPal TOS.
PayPal used to state in the TOS that a transaction fee could be assessed by the buyer so long as it applied to all electronic payment types. I haven't checked to see if that's still the case, but that may be an option for sellers.
As already stated, CAG should be upholding (not enforcing - there is a difference) the PayPal TOS. If CAG were to outright promote/encourage/state that personal payments are allowed, it would be inappropriate. If CAG wants to allow such, the site should be silent on the issue and let its members police themselves. Either way, I'll stick to my current policy of following PayPal TOS.
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thenutman69321
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I say keep it how it is. It is against Paypal TOS in these situations to use gifted, isn't it? There's no reason CAG should officially support violating it. As it stands now it is officially against the rules here but I don't think it's a secret that the vast majority of people only do gifted anyways. Keep it officially against the rules but what risks people decide to take in PM's while working out a deal is their choice.
qualityman13
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Paypal used to have the option when you were sending money to have the Buyer pay the associated fees. It now has the seller pay the fees deducted from the payment sent.
Paypal protections don't apply for transactions that are solely for non-physical goods, which means even if not using a gift payment you can't get restitution. That doesn't necessarily mean gift payments should be allowed for sales of digital items. However, for other things like paying someone for a share in a bundle split or such, I'd argue that gift payments are actually the proper choice and should be allowed.
Policy or not, I would not be willing to make a gift payment for a physical transaction.
Freedom for users to do what they want, is NOT endorsing it... This is the avenue I think CAG should take. In the rules, the cons should certainly be explained, but CAG should be neutral on it, IMHO, and allow the individual to make his/her own decision regarding gift payments.
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I do not think gifted paypal fees are a bad thing for digital items being split from a physical item.
The sale of digital copies of movies, season passes for games and preorder/CE content codes is effectively splitting a bill... which paypal explicitly allows for as a gifted transaction. If a physical good or full digital game (that did not come inside the packaging of a physical game) is involved.... then gifting remains against paypal T&Cs.
The sale of digital copies of movies, season passes for games and preorder/CE content codes is effectively splitting a bill... which paypal explicitly allows for as a gifted transaction. If a physical good or full digital game (that did not come inside the packaging of a physical game) is involved.... then gifting remains against paypal T&Cs.
EdgeOfThorns
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Its what feedback is for, so yes. Deal with great feedback members then there are no worries, if you deal with unproven members then don't use gifted, I feel its all fairly simple and should not be this much of a dilemma.
EdgeOfThorns
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Exactly, like Rig...if we were dealing this very day id have no problem giving you a gifted payment, none whatsoever. And that is simply going off the fact that I see your feedback and would be at total ease.
If CAG wants some sort of structure upon using it, perhaps they could set a number of positive feedback to 20-25 and say "we as a site would prefer if you don't use gift payments with someone under 25 positive"
I mean that's just a random thought, but its really the only thing I got. Overall, i feel it should totally be up to each person in how they want to run their deals.
If CAG wants some sort of structure upon using it, perhaps they could set a number of positive feedback to 20-25 and say "we as a site would prefer if you don't use gift payments with someone under 25 positive"
I mean that's just a random thought, but its really the only thing I got. Overall, i feel it should totally be up to each person in how they want to run their deals.
Like others have already said, it is against the ToS of Paypal. If CAG said it was okay, they can be liable for the promotion of fraud. It really should stay within the two parties to make that choice. I did see someone with a lot of good feedback then one day they ran off with several peoples monies. Anything can happen with anyone, people change, things can happen to make a person desperate. Gift should always remain "at your own risk".
Voted yes. People usually use gifted here anyways, it's no secret. Should be up to the traders, not the mods/admin. There's a risk no matter the item or method. We agree to those variables when we send items or money out with good faith that the other party will be honest.
bread's done