Should our Gov really be closed down for Xmas?

Ikohn4ever

Ikohn4ever

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I was talking with a friend and I really dont feel that our government should shut down for xmas. It just seems to go with the whole church and state thing. I mean what other religous holidays do we do not get mail on? Post your thoughts, ohh and I personally dont care if you celebrate xmas or not, nor do I have any problems with the holiday itself besides it rampant commercialism.
 
I think everyone in the government has the same right as anybody else to celebrate christmas or any other religious holiday.
 
Most buisnesses are also closed on christmas even if the owners are not christian. Since the vast amount of americans and government employees are christian it would be very difficult to find enough staff to keep any large store or government office open.
 
I think the issue here really is not "should the government close?" but "should Christmas be a federal holiday?" The answer to both questions is yes. The vast majority of Americans (96+%) celebrate Christmas, so having it as a federal holiday just makes sense. And because it is and should be a federal holiday, the government should be closed. On the practical side, I agree with what zion has pointed out, and also there would be much, much less to do, of course, with the vast, vast majority of people not working on that day.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I mean what other religous holidays do we do not get mail on? [/QUOTE]

New Year's Day... (Yes it's a christian religion feast day and one of obligation IIRC)
 
I don't care that the government is closed down on Christmas since so many people celebrate. Besides, if they did try to stay open on Christmas they would likely have 90% or more of their employees take a sick day so they could be with their families.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']I don't care that the government is closed down on Christmas since so many people celebrate. Besides, if they did try to stay open on Christmas they would likely have 90% or more of their employees take a sick day so they could be with their families.[/QUOTE]


Doubt it. Phone companies (like verizon) are open on christmas and the workers don't have a choice, and many sign on for the holiday pay. Extremely few skip christmas, since they (correctly) feel no one would believe them.

Though I don't really care if they're open on christmas, just think they shouldn't be due to the meaning it has to the workers.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Doubt it. Phone companies (like verizon) are open on christmas and the workers don't have a choice, and many sign on for the holiday pay. Extremely few skip christmas, since they (correctly) feel no one would believe them.

Though I don't really care if they're open on christmas, just think they shouldn't be due to the meaning it has to the workers.[/QUOTE]

Way to reach out into deep left field for that one. Of course some buisnesses must be open on christmas, it's the same thing you see with the fire department and poilce.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Way to reach out into deep left field for that one. Of course some buisnesses must be open on christmas, it's the same thing you see with the fire department and poilce.[/QUOTE]

He said people wouldn't show up, I was arguing that wasn't true, it was obvious if you read both of our posts. I also could have taken you to cvs and walgreens stores that were open yesterday.

Also, I think police think a little differently of their work than telephone operators. I've yet to hear of anyone being proud to work at verizon.
 
It's annoying for sure, especially when you aren't in the mood for Chinese food, but its nothing compared to France back when I used to visit: Every single Sunday looks like Christmas, every single shop is closed, even some gas stations. The only exception is that there's a Sunday (flea?) market.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']He said people wouldn't show up, I was arguing that wasn't true, it was obvious if you read both of our posts. I also could have taken you to cvs and walgreens stores that were open yesterday.

Also, I think police think a little differently of their work than telephone operators. I've yet to hear of anyone being proud to work at verizon.[/QUOTE]

People won't show up, unless of course they work at a place that for some reason needs to be open like Verison.

I bet had you actually gone inside walgreens or CVS you would have seen a store running on a skeleton crew.

Eitherway you're looking at extreme cases that apply to less than 5% of the workforce.
 
I don't see the difference between employees in verizon or any other job people don't want to lose. Its all in how the employer (and union) treat the situation. People want the holiday pay (2.5 times the normal pay) and they want to keep their job, that's why they show up.

Obviously with throwaway jobs (at least for many people) like a cashier at filenes you'll get a lot more skipping than jobs that actually matter to people due to pay, working towards pensions etc.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I don't see the difference between employees in verizon or any other job people don't want to lose. Its all in how the employer (and union) treat the situation. People want the holiday pay (2.5 times the normal pay) and they want to keep their job, that's why they show up.[/QUOTE]

Verizon is the phone company, you'll see the same thing with gas and electric companies, someone needs to show up to make sure the system is up and running. This is quite different from most typical jobs where a holiday simply means no productivity. If it was simply a choice of continued employement than a Christmas holiday would be treated more as a job perk than a guarantee.
 
I think it's nice that there is still a day that people have off to be with their families. Even though I'm not a christian, it's one day that my whole family can get together. I also appreciate it more now since I used to work at a convenience store and had to work every christmas.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Verizon is the phone company, you'll see the same thing with gas and electric companies, someone needs to show up to make sure the system is up and running. This is quite different from most typical jobs where a holiday simply means no productivity. If it was simply a choice of continued employement than a Christmas holiday would be treated more as a job perk than a guarantee.[/QUOTE]

But the point is the employees are no different. They aren't like cops who often take pride in their work and the value of their job. They're just normal employees. If other companies stayed open, and took similar steps to ensure employees showed up, then people would work. If people could skip work without the threat of consequences, or if people weren't getting paid as much (since many people choose to work on christmas for the extra pay) then you're probably right, you would get a lot of people skipping.

Though again with the extra pay many people want to work, even some of those with kids.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']But the point is the employees are no different. They aren't like cops who often take pride in their work and the value of their job. They're just normal employees. [/quote]

Evidently you're not aware half of Americans ("normal employees") are happy with their jobs.

http://www.conference-board.org/utilities/pressDetail.cfm?press_ID=2582

Strange to me to hear people say these kinds of things, because I'm pretty happy with my job. Just a query, did you ever have a job that you were happy to be doing, took real pride in, or at least were satisfied with it?

[quote name='alonzomourning23']If other companies stayed open, and took similar steps to ensure employees showed up, then people would work. If people could skip work without the threat of consequences, or if people weren't getting paid as much (since many people choose to work on christmas for the extra pay) then you're probably right, you would get a lot of people skipping.

Though again with the extra pay many people want to work, even some of those with kids.[/QUOTE]

Maybe some people would take the pay, but then again, why would a company that was not required to be running 24/7, unlike a utility, or the police/fire departments, require people to come in on a holiday anyway?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']But the point is the employees are no different. They aren't like cops who often take pride in their work and the value of their job. They're just normal employees. If other companies stayed open, and took similar steps to ensure employees showed up, then people would work. If people could skip work without the threat of consequences, or if people weren't getting paid as much (since many people choose to work on christmas for the extra pay) then you're probably right, you would get a lot of people skipping.

Though again with the extra pay many people want to work, even some of those with kids.[/QUOTE]

No, people at Verison know they or at least some of them are going to have to work christmas and that they are doing this because their services are vital. It's the same reason why hospitals are staffed. It's about what is considered vital by the population and everything else remains closed.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I think it's nice that there is still a day that people have off to be with their families. Even though I'm not a christian, it's one day that my whole family can get together. I also appreciate it more now since I used to work at a convenience store and had to work every christmas.[/QUOTE]

Great point.

I didn't even mind the name, until the christians started using it in an attempt to shove more Jesus down our collective throats. Now I believe we need to change it to "Generic Winter Holiday" to avoid confusion. ;)
 
Only the most extreme bigoted asshole would demand a day off become a work day.

You're as bad as the Klansmen that don't think Martin Luther King should be a national holiday.

Who the fuck doesn't want a day off regardless of what it's for?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Only the most extreme bigoted asshole would demand a day off become a work day.

You're as bad as the Klansmen that don't think Martin Luther King should be a national holiday.

Who the fuck doesn't want a day off regardless of what it's for?[/QUOTE]

Your right there is no really good reason to complain about it.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Who the fuck doesn't want a day off regardless of what it's for?[/QUOTE]

So you have no problem with the copious amount of vacation time that federal employees take? I like more bang for my buck, and ideally I think that their vacation/holiday schedule should mirror that of the working public. Of course, I don't blindly believe in the Bush administration, under which federal government has increased 30% in size and that's not counting defense spending.
 
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You can't really be so stupid to actually think government provides any bang for your buck can you?

Try getting any work rule changes past AFGE and their Democratic slaves if you want to cut their vacation or holidays. See how far you go.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']No, people at Verison know they or at least some of them are going to have to work christmas and that they are doing this because their services are vital. It's the same reason why hospitals are staffed. It's about what is considered vital by the population and everything else remains closed.[/QUOTE]

The company stays open due to it being a vital service. The employees are nothing like hospital staff, its a job where they make money like any other job, thats all it is to them. There's no social importance to them in being an operator, no special feeling. They are doing it because they want to keep their job due to pay and present and future benefits.

The difference here is with the company, not the employees. That's my point. Hospital staff, policemen, firemen etc. think of their work differently.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Only the most extreme bigoted asshole would demand a day off become a work day.

You're as bad as the Klansmen that don't think Martin Luther King should be a national holiday.

Who the fuck doesn't want a day off regardless of what it's for?[/QUOTE]

What about people who don't want to have columbus day because it celebrates a ruthless man who enslaved a population? Are they bigots?

What about people (particularly african americans) who don't want mississippi to have a state holiday on the birthday of jefferson davis? Are they bigots?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You can't really be so stupid to actually think government provides any bang for your buck can you?

Try getting any work rule changes past AFGE and their Democratic slaves if you want to cut their vacation or holidays. See how far you go.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I was talking about the ideal situation, not the unfortunate truth.

There is a difference between

1. A discussion about how much vacation government should have.
2. A discussion about the best method to implement the ideal government vacation schedule.

My comment was directed towards the first type of discussion. If you are asserting that the point is moot, I don't know why you bothered to post at all.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The company stays open due to it being a vital service. The employees are nothing like hospital staff, its a job where they make money like any other job, thats all it is to them. There's no social importance to them in being an operator, no special feeling. They are doing it because they want to keep their job due to pay and present and future benefits.

The difference here is with the company, not the employees. That's my point. Hospital staff, policemen, firemen etc. think of their work differently.[/QUOTE]

:rofl: So now the difference is some "special" feeling, how quaint. They do it for the same fucking reason hospital staff and policemen do it's because if policemen and hospital staff didn't do it they'd also be out of a job. Certain services are considered vital by the public and for this reason they must be staffed on Christmas, this however applies to a very small minority of the overall population.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']:rofl: So now the difference is some "special" feeling, how quaint. They do it for the same fucking reason hospital staff and policemen do it's because if policemen and hospital staff didn't do it they'd also be out of a job. Certain services are considered vital by the public and for this reason they must be staffed on Christmas, this however applies to a very small minority of the overall population.[/QUOTE]

zion, this is pointless. Police view their job differently than a normal job, plain and simple. You tell me exactly what the difference is between a telephone operator and a business manager in terms of how much they care about their job. You keep wanting to compare them to doctors and such, when they are entirely different as far as the employee is concerned. All you keep saying is their job is different, that has absolutely nothing to do with how the employees treat their job and everything to do with the rules and regulations set.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']zion, this is pointless. Police view their job differently than a normal job, plain and simple. You tell me exactly what the difference is between a telephone operator and a business manager in terms of how much they care about their job. You keep wanting to compare them to doctors and such, when they are entirely different as far as the employee is concerned.[/QUOTE]

So now only doctors work at hospitals? :rofl:

It's not about what you make but how important it is to have the position staffed. Have you ever stopped to consider how many fucking phone calls are made on Christmas day? Someone needs to be there to ensure it all runs smoothly and that's why people at Verison work Christmas day.
 
I think our legislature should take a lot more vacation days than x-mas. In fact, they should meet year round but only 3 days a week, thursday friday and saturday. Meetings should take place at the local tavern with a cash bar and only part time pay. The'd get a lot more work done because the first layer of bullshit would be rubbed out after the first round of drinks.
 
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