Soft PS3 sales spell trouble for EA, others

[quote name='nasum']Hey guys, every car lot I went to today had at least 5 cars sitting there!!! There's no demand for cars at all, and you can't find a bicycle anywhere in town!

CARS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE AND NO ONE WANT'S ONE!!!! Cars are so totally going to fail.[/QUOTE]

Sad part is its also true... look at Michigan's economy and the car sales loss for the year. The buyers that are buying are going to less expensive more reliable car companies and GM and FORD are losing big time. .Ford just posted its biggest loss in its 103 year history.
 
[quote name='jrutz']Bank of America isn't just checking and savings. They manage billions of dollars in investments (both retail and institutional), and track the gaming industry just as any other industry worth investing in. [/quote]I'm aware of this, but they are far from any of the better investment houses.

It seems a very weak source to quote.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']
aabf18sarcasmdetectorro6.jpg

?[/quote]

Oh man, you got me cracking up with that one!
 
[quote name='help1']The point is, when those games came out, they wee revolutionary. Resistance is the tekken tag of this gen, you say ooooh and ahh now, but later you'll say its crap.[/quote]

o_rry.jpg
 
[quote name='sonderiaom']I thought that Sony just came out and said that there would be no price drop at all, as everything in the PS3 was still too expensive. However that's prob just PR.

Personally I think the only way out of this is to drop Blu-Ray.[/QUOTE]

far too late now. The only option at this point is for Sony to stick it out, suffer being in last (by a large margin) and try to make things right.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Ya most of Sonys big guns are being delayed into next year or also hitting the 360 now. I cant imagine what its going to be like when Halo 3 hits or Nintendos big guns like Mario and SSB start dropping.[/QUOTE]

VF 5 is Sonys "Big gun?". Don't know of many titles that have gone from exclusive to multiplatform. And I don't know of ANY that were delayed until 2008.

Also, when are Nintendo's "Big Guns" supposed to be dropping? I'm really looking forward to them, but am not really liking the Wii at the moment. The lackluster Q1 07 line-up isn't helping either. I'm waiting for their big guns, but with the GCN, it seemed like there were a lot of delays for these bigger titles.

When you speak of Sony's "big guns", you should really be referring to MGS4, DMC4, and Killzone. FFXIII and GT5 will most likely come 2008 and there are also some potential 'killer apps' such as: Heavenly Sword, Lair, Warhawk. Not to mention two very good ports coming later this year: Ninja Gaiden: Sigma, Oblivion, and SC:DA. And these are most likely to come later on in the PS3's life but have yet to be announced: God of War 3, Socom, Ratchet & Clank, Kingdom Hearts, Team Ico game (personally am waiting for this), Jak, and Sly Cooper. There are a few franchises I want them to bring back for the PS3 like: ZOE and Twisted Metal.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I think if the PS2 dissapeared it would just cost Sony alot of money since the sales would probally transfer not to the expensive $600 system but either to Nintendos GC or the Wii.[/QUOTE]


Keep in mind that by the time theses "budget gamers" finally decide to go next-gen, all 3 consoles will most likely be in the sub $200 range. They waited this long for the PS2, so I am sure they won't be getting ANY next-gen system until about 4-5 years from now, when price won't be as big of a factor.

As for Blu-ray, I think, given the high price of the system, it was a mistake. It offers no DIRECT benefits to gamers (unless you count not having to get up and switch discs every 20 hours into a game). It does benefit developers, which is somewhat of an indirect benefit to gamers. It gives developers more freedom and allows them to create games more efficiently without having to waste space on budgeting space and compression. Not really worth the extra money, but it still is a benefit. However, the high price of both blu-ray and PS3 give it an uphill battle. If one starts to succeed, it will benefit the other. That is what Sony is banking on. I do think it was a mistake, but I don't think it will be as devastating as some think. If blu-ray does continue the way it has been going, its success will be shared with the PS3 as more people will be willing to buy PS3s for both movie and gaming components.

I really think people are being too hasty with this "PS3 is doomed" nonsense. I see it happen with every major console release. I think, given the stiff competition, lack of games and high price, the PS3 is off to a decent start. It has quite a few games due out in a few months and will also launch in the rest of the world too, which will definitely boost sales. And Fall is going to bring around a lot of impressive titles.
 
[quote name='dpatel']VF 5 is Sonys "Big gun?". Don't know of many titles that have gone from exclusive to multiplatform. And I don't know of ANY that were delayed until 2008.

Also, when are Nintendo's "Big Guns" supposed to be dropping? I'm really looking forward to them, but am not really liking the Wii at the moment. The lackluster Q1 07 line-up isn't helping either. I'm waiting for their big guns, but with the GCN, it seemed like there were a lot of delays for these bigger titles.

When you speak of Sony's "big guns", you should really be referring to MGS4, DMC4, and Killzone. FFXIII and GT5 will most likely come 2008 and there are also some potential 'killer apps' such as: Heavenly Sword, Lair, Warhawk. Not to mention two very good ports coming later this year: Ninja Gaiden: Sigma, Oblivion, and SC:DA. And these are most likely to come later on in the PS3's life but have yet to be announced: God of War 3, Socom, Ratchet & Clank, Kingdom Hearts, Team Ico game (personally am waiting for this), Jak, and Sly Cooper. There are a few franchises I want them to bring back for the PS3 like: ZOE and Twisted Metal.




Keep in mind that by the time theses "budget gamers" finally decide to go next-gen, all 3 consoles will most likely be in the sub $200 range. They waited this long for the PS2, so I am sure they won't be getting ANY next-gen system until about 4-5 years from now, when price won't be as big of a factor.

As for Blu-ray, I think, given the high price of the system, it was a mistake. It offers no DIRECT benefits to gamers (unless you count not having to get up and switch discs every 20 hours into a game). It does benefit developers, which is somewhat of an indirect benefit to gamers. It gives developers more freedom and allows them to create games more efficiently without having to waste space on budgeting space and compression. Not really worth the extra money, but it still is a benefit. However, the high price of both blu-ray and PS3 give it an uphill battle. If one starts to succeed, it will benefit the other. That is what Sony is banking on. I do think it was a mistake, but I don't think it will be as devastating as some think. If blu-ray does continue the way it has been going, its success will be shared with the PS3 as more people will be willing to buy PS3s for both movie and gaming components.

I really think people are being too hasty with this "PS3 is doomed" nonsense. I see it happen with every major console release. I think, given the stiff competition, lack of games and high price, the PS3 is off to a decent start. It has quite a few games due out in a few months and will also launch in the rest of the world too, which will definitely boost sales. And Fall is going to bring around a lot of impressive titles.[/QUOTE]

VF5 went to Xbox as did Resident Evil V and I cant recall but another big game did too. Kojima has stated he wants to make PC games and numerous sources have posted that MGS is likly(and from the past we should know it is)to hit the Xbox 360 at a later date. High production costs will also probally drive titles not normally expected to be multiplatform to be so. I wouldnt be suprised if DMC ends up on the 360, though so far there is not even rumors.

So again....PS3 is kinda hurting. Most of its big guns are hitting multiple systems, expected to or not coming out till 08. Im not saying it wont get great games, and that some wont be exclusive. Im just saying that its going to take time, alot more then most people will be willing to wait.

As for Nintendos games no clue when they are coming out, think most are quarter 3.
 
New Japanese sales numbers as well as % showing growth or lack there of in almost every case.

- DS Lite: 127,647 38,360 UP (42.96%)
- Wii: 86,395 7,313 DOWN(7.80%)
- PSP: 37,032 11,772 DOWN(24.12%)
- PS3: 21,105 4,426 DOWN(17.34%)
- PS2: 20,169 2,494 DOWN (11.00%)
- Xbox 360: 7,0411,994 DOWN (22.07%)
- Game Boy Micro: DOWN1,864 95 (4.85%)
- GBA SP: 1,49849 DOWN (3.17%)
- Gamecube: 554 57 DOWN(9.33%)
- DS Phat: 12382 DOWN(200.00%)
- GBA: 94 15 UP (18.99%)

Again sad sales this week for everyone but the DS. Posted here because first it relates to the sales argument, second while the Wii is down 7% the PS3 is down almost double that and so far has sold 1/4th as many as the Wii.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']VF5 went to Xbox as did Resident Evil V and I cant recall but another big game did too. Kojima has stated he wants to make PC games and numerous sources have posted that MGS is likly(and from the past we should know it is)to hit the Xbox 360 at a later date. High production costs will also probally drive titles not normally expected to be multiplatform to be so. I wouldnt be suprised if DMC ends up on the 360, though so far there is not even rumors.[/QUOTE]

Resident Evil was never a PS3 exclusive. In fact, prior to V, it was a GCN exclusive, so it is a gained franchise either way. But I would like to hear where you read it was originally an exclusive.

Are you sure you recall another big game? I know that UT3 and Assassin's Creed were announced for the 360, but I don't think they were ever named exclusive to the PS3.

The official stance on both MGS and DMC is that they are exclusive for now. Kojima has shown interest in all systems. I have a feeling we will see him on the Wii since that is where is creativity will shine. But MGS was never even hinted as going to the 360. Only rumors at this time.

I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. So far, the only thing that went from exclusive to multi was VF5. Not exactly a "big gun" though, as you put it.

[quote name='MSI Magus']So again....PS3 is kinda hurting. Most of its big guns are hitting multiple systems, expected to or not coming out till 08. Im not saying it wont get great games, and that some wont be exclusive. Im just saying that its going to take time, alot more then most people will be willing to wait.[/QUOTE]


Did you just read my list of games? As far as I know, none of those games are going multi. Please look at my post again, and show me which of the games are going multi or will be delayed to 08. Thanks.

[quote name='MSI Magus']As for Nintendos games no clue when they are coming out, think most are quarter 3.[/QUOTE]

That's good to know. I'm really wanting the next Smash.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']New Japanese sales numbers as well as % showing growth or lack there of in almost every case.

- DS Lite: 127,647 38,360 UP (42.96%)
- Wii: 86,395 7,313 DOWN(7.80%)
- PSP: 37,032 11,772 DOWN(24.12%)
- PS3: 21,105 4,426 DOWN(17.34%)
- PS2: 20,169 2,494 DOWN (11.00%)
- Xbox 360: 7,0411,994 DOWN (22.07%)
- Game Boy Micro: DOWN1,864 95 (4.85%)
- GBA SP: 1,49849 DOWN (3.17%)
- Gamecube: 554 57 DOWN(9.33%)
- DS Phat: 12382 DOWN(200.00%)
- GBA: 94 15 UP (18.99%)

Again sad sales this week for everyone but the DS. Posted here because first it relates to the sales argument, second while the Wii is down 7% the PS3 is down almost double that and so far has sold 1/4th as many as the Wii.[/QUOTE]

First off, source?

Secondly, is this really surprising. The Wii is off to a great start, no denying that. The PS3 has an uphill battle with a higer price and few games (even fewer games for the Japanese as their killer app is an FPS).
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']I can tell you know nothing about blu-ray because you can't even spell it right.

It's not just that, PS3 IS the true next generation console. It has heat sensitive buttons, no motorized disc tray, no more standard DVD cases, brand new format (not sticking to last gen using DVDs), advanced cooling system you cannot hear (unlike the 360 that sounds like a jet taking off), and so on.

Only people who own a PS3 would know how great it is. Just like how PSP is way better than DS.[/QUOTE]

Holy. Crap.

Holy. Holy. Holy. Crap.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Resident Evil was never a PS3 exclusive. In fact, prior to V, it was a GCN exclusive, so it is a gained franchise either way. But I would like to hear where you read it was originally an exclusive.

Are you sure you recall another big game? I know that UT3 and Assassin's Creed were announced for the 360, but I don't think they were ever named exclusive to the PS3.

The official stance on both MGS and DMC is that they are exclusive for now. Kojima has shown interest in all systems. I have a feeling we will see him on the Wii since that is where is creativity will shine. But MGS was never even hinted as going to the 360. Only rumors at this time.

I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. So far, the only thing that went from exclusive to multi was VF5. Not exactly a "big gun" though, as you put it.

As iv said a million times in this topic, I dont think the PS3 will fail, nor do I want it to kill Sony. Im just saying that its in trouble and all the signs keep pointing to it including its list of exclusives.



Did you just read my list of games? As far as I know, none of those games are going multi. Please look at my post again, and show me which of the games are going multi or will be delayed to 08. Thanks.



That's good to know. I'm really wanting the next Smash.[/QUOTE]

You missed the point. Your sitting and saying O those games were never PS3 exclusive to begin with. Well guess what, even if thats true they still are not PS3 exclusive...either way the Xbox is still getting it. Bottom line is most of the PS3s big titles are hitting the PS3 and slowly we have seen exclusives trickle to other systems and probally will see more.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']You missed the point. Your sitting and saying O those games were never PS3 exclusive to begin with. Well guess what, even if thats true they still are not PS3 exclusive...either way the Xbox is still getting it. Bottom line is most of the PS3s big titles are hitting the PS3 and slowly we have seen exclusives trickle to other systems and probally will see more.[/QUOTE]

Ah ok. My mistake. I guess I misunderstood when you said "these games are hitting the 360 NOW". I assumed you meant they weren't originally hitting the 360.

In that case, yes there are quite a few PS3 games also on the 360. But still, I provided plenty of big guns that are PS3 exclusive for now. You said most of sonys big guns are delayed to 08 or are already on the 360. I see three games that fit this description with the majority of them hitting this year and exclusive. So, aside from VF5 and RE5, what big guns do you speak of. If I recall correctly, the only 'loss' is VF5. They still have it, just not exclusively. RE4 was the GCNs 'big gun', so this is a gain for them.

Let me reiterate my list for you, since you seemed to have skipped so many:
big guns:
MGS4
DMC4
Killzone
other new IPs:
Heavenly Sword
Lair
Motorstorm
Warhawk
games due for after 07:
FFXIII
GT5
Ratchet and Clank
unannnced but first party and likely
God of War 3
Socom
Team Ico
Jak
Sly Cooper

and, although VF5 went multi, the PS3 has also gotten a few 360 games too: Oblivion, Ninja Gaiden: Sigma, SC: DA, Full Auto 2, and Enchant Arms

So, how are "most" of these on the 360 or delayed?
 
MGS4 - Again has a history of hitting other platforms
DMC4 - Date not set yet and again rumors have started already of a port though there is no history of this so I say questionable
Killzone - Last one wasnt AAA and the name of the game is still listed as working title....almost guranteed to be 08

other new IPs:
Heavenly Sword - This game has potential but thats all it is at this point. The game has ok buzz but is an unprooven franchise, hard to call this a big gun.

Lair - I thought this was a good example....but the game is apparently still TBA on release date. Should make it out this year though and have succese but as a new franchise I question if its a big gun. Most casuals will have no clue what it is.
Motorstorm - Again an unprooven franchise. Think this will do well unless its reviews are godlike and Sony hypes it right I dont see this being a system seller on its own.
Warhawk - Yet again TBA on the release date and not even set till Q3 in Japan. I question also if this is a system seller since iv heard very little if any hype for the game at all.

games due for after 07:
FFXIII - 08 Game probally
GT5 - Not dated
Ratchet and Clank - Not dated
unannnced but first party and likely
God of War 3 - Not dated
Socom - Neither announced or dated AFAIK also not AAA in most views
Team Ico - Again not dated
Jak - Not announced or atleast dated
Sly Cooper - Not even announced. In fact Sucker punch says they want to do new IP

So again im sorry bro....but Sony is going to not even have its feet hit the ground till 08. Most of its 07 titles are new franchises that have to proove themselves not big guns. Most of them also TBA release dates which mean they will be Q4 releases most likly...and a few should probally get bumped into 08. Finally the games that are reconizable like R&C, GT5, FFXIII etc etc are almost all guranteed to be 08 games...a few are not even announced.

People can argue all they want but Sonys "big guns" are questionable at this point, as iv said several times they are hitting other systems, rumored to hit other systems, listed as TBA or set for Q4 or later.
 
[quote name='dpatel']big guns:
MGS4 will very likely be on at least one other system within a year of release

DMC4 more likely to be sony exclusive, but DMC doesn't sell very many consoles. Some yes, but not many. Many of those who buy PSs for specific games are the more fanboyish RPG players.

Killzone definately sony only for obvious reasons. but again, this isn't a system seller.

 other new IPs:
lots of games Some good to great looking titles along with the same old same old. But as the library expands and quality ports and worthy exclusives come out, then the PS3 will begin picking up the sales.[/quote].
 
Sony seems to have to play Nintendos game this generation. They dont have one huge IP that is going to sell their system. Instead it will be a collection of games and the future games that will hit that will sell the system. MS's Halo will sell a good number of systems, but Mario, Metroid, Killzone etc may sell to a number of people, but for the most part it will be the collective power of the titles that sells the systems. Nintendos are all exclusive since they make so many first party games, Sony on the other hand while having alot of great IP like Jak, R&C and Ico isnt announcing them right now. So again I see it being atleast 08 before the system even begins to be seen as an opition let alone THE option.
 
the ps3 is in third, and nothing short of a 50% price drop is gonna change that. The majority are going to flock to the 360 and Wii this generation, deal with it. There'll still be some decent games for it, and i'll get one eventually, but it's not a console made to be #1. It's a console made to sell blu-ray. Sony is fine with that, why aren't you guys?

I'd say as much as 80% of the PS2 market is NOT willing to pay anywhere near $500 for a game system. The people who wanted a PS2 because it was cheap and had madden and GTA are already going to 360, and that's where that market is going to be. End of story.

The PS3 is for high end videophiles who need the highest quality of everything. That's not most of us.

Cheapassgamers should be ashamed to own a PS3.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']MGS4 - Again has a history of hitting other platforms
DMC4 - Date not set yet and again rumors have started already of a port though there is no history of this so I say questionable
Killzone - Last one wasnt AAA and the name of the game is still listed as working title....almost guranteed to be 08[/QUOTE]

MGS4 - MGS2: Substance went to the xbox, but suffered from porting problems and lackluster sales. I'm not saying it wont get ported, I'm just saying that, at this time, the official stance for this and DMC is "PS3 exclusive".

Killzone- I wasn't sure what you were classifying as 'big gun'. I know Sony will be pushing this game like crazy. I couldn't care less about the title, but if we are going by quality, then I guess we can't really include it (although, from what I have heard, their PSP iteration is actually a pretty good game. Not sure if that would make the PS3 game AAA, but it definitely gives a good outlook of the series). And, as of now, the date is 2007:
http://www.news4gamers.com/ps3/News-20650.aspx



[quote name='MSI Magus']other new IPs:
Heavenly Sword - This game has potential but thats all it is at this point. The game has ok buzz but is an unprooven franchise, hard to call this a big gun.

Lair - I thought this was a good example....but the game is apparently still TBA on release date. Should make it out this year though and have succese but as a new franchise I question if its a big gun. Most casuals will have no clue what it is.
Motorstorm - Again an unprooven franchise. Think this will do well unless its reviews are godlike and Sony hypes it right I dont see this being a system seller on its own.
Warhawk - Yet again TBA on the release date and not even set till Q3 in Japan. I question also if this is a system seller since iv heard very little if any hype for the game at all.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't really counting these games as 'big guns'. These are just some games that will be hitting the PS3 this year. The only exclusive 'big guns' that will be out this year are: MGS4, DMC4, and Killzone. None of those have been delayed.

[quote name='MSI Magus']games due for after 07:
FFXIII - 08 Game probally
GT5 - Not dated
Ratchet and Clank - Not dated
unannnced but first party and likely
God of War 3 - Not dated
Socom - Neither announced or dated AFAIK also not AAA in most views
Team Ico - Again not dated
Jak - Not announced or atleast dated
Sly Cooper - Not even announced. In fact Sucker punch says they want to do new IP[/QUOTE]

I specifically stated which were due after 07 and which were not announced.

[quote name='MSI Magus']So again im sorry bro....but Sony is going to not even have its feet hit the ground till 08. Most of its 07 titles are new franchises that have to proove themselves not big guns. Most of them also TBA release dates which mean they will be Q4 releases most likly...and a few should probally get bumped into 08. Finally the games that are reconizable like R&C, GT5, FFXIII etc etc are almost all guranteed to be 08 games...a few are not even announced.[/QUOTE]

I agree that most of its 07 releases are new franchises. Frankly that has me really excited, but that isn't a good thing when trying to build a fanbase. And just because the games are "TBA", doesn't necessarily mean Q4 or 08. I would be surprised if any of the games I listed got bumped to 08 (unless I specifically said). So, you have no proof of any games being delayed to 08 or of any games also hitting the 360 (your original point). All you have is rumors about games going multi and the hunch that you have of some games being bumped to 08.

I was never saying we would get GT5, FFXIII or Ratchet this year. You said the big guns were going to be DELAYED to 08 (meaning they would have to have announced dates). The only big guns that have announced dates are the 3 that I listed (not really dates, but more like Fall 07), and NONE of those were delayed or scheduled to hit the 360.

[quote name='MSI Magus']People can argue all they want but Sonys "big guns" are questionable at this point, as iv said several times they are hitting other systems, rumored to hit other systems, listed as TBA or set for Q4 or later.[/QUOTE]

You keep saying that they are going to be delayed or hitting the 360, but you have yet to show any proof of it.

Also, you fault the PS3 for not having enough 'big guns', but you only listed 1 360 game, and 2 Nintendo games (which I don't think are set for this year, unless you have an announced date somewhere). I know there are more for the systems, but considering how many PS3 games you excluded from the 'big gun' list, I am wondering what makes you so confident that the other two systems are going to outperform the PS3 with what little info you have on them.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Sony seems to have to play Nintendos game this generation. They dont have one huge IP that is going to sell their system. Instead it will be a collection of games and the future games that will hit that will sell the system. MS's Halo will sell a good number of systems, but Mario, Metroid, Killzone etc may sell to a number of people, but for the most part it will be the collective power of the titles that sells the systems. Nintendos are all exclusive since they make so many first party games, Sony on the other hand while having alot of great IP like Jak, R&C and Ico isnt announcing them right now. So again I see it being atleast 08 before the system even begins to be seen as an opition let alone THE option.[/QUOTE]

How is "nintendo's game" when it is the exact same thing they did with the PS3. And you do know that Sony has more first party titles than nintendo, right? Just making sure because you listed Nintendo has have 'so many' first party titles.
 
[quote name='jer7583']the ps3 is in third, and nothing short of a 50% price drop is gonna change that. The majority are going to flock to the 360 and Wii this generation, deal with it. There'll still be some decent games for it, and i'll get one eventually, but it's not a console made to be #1. It's a console made to sell blu-ray. Sony is fine with that, why aren't you guys?

I'd say as much as 80% of the PS2 market is NOT willing to pay anywhere near $500 for a game system. The people who wanted a PS2 because it was cheap and had madden and GTA are already going to 360, and that's where that market is going to be. End of story.

The PS3 is for high end videophiles who need the highest quality of everything. That's not most of us.

Cheapassgamers should be ashamed to own a PS3.[/QUOTE]

Most of your post seems to apply to your own feelings, which is fine, but dont generalize all gamers in with your own sentiments.

Also, you do realize most people who bought a PS2 bought it when it was in the sub $200 range. So most of those people are NOT going to the 360. They are still playing their PS2s.

Personally, I see the novelty of the Wii wearing off after a while. Wii sales will drop in a few months, and will spike when their first party titles are released (Mario, SSB, Mario Kart, Metroid), but then it will begin to trail. It's inferior hardware will begin to be a factor, and people will realize that the controller isn't that 'revolutionary' at all.

360 will lead until mid to late 08. PS3 will catch up, but both will be so close that it won't even matter who is 'winning'. They will stay that way until the end of the gen. Whether or not PS3 is slightly ahead or slightly behind the 360 will depend on the Blu-ray/HD-DVD war.

This is all my opinion, but this is how I see it playing out.
 
[quote name='dpatel']
Also, you fault the PS3 for not having enough 'big guns', but you only listed 1 360 game, and 2 Nintendo games (which I don't think are set for this year, unless you have an announced date somewhere). I know there are more for the systems, but considering how many PS3 games you excluded from the 'big gun' list, I am wondering what makes you so confident that the other two systems are going to outperform the PS3 with what little info you have on them.[/QUOTE]

I only listed 1 game for the Wii because I dont think Nintendo is doing an amazing job either, and the 360 while getting some games isnt getting any huge system sellers I can think of off the top of my head. Truth is that while I check like 5 news sites everyday and check gamerankings.com atleast once a month keeping a list of every good game that comes out so I can buy it later(even if I dont own the system currently or plan to in a few months), that im really dissapointed so far this gen and not hyped for it at all. The first year always sucks and we are seeing that right now, iv not bought any of the three systems nor do I plan to anytime soon, so while I know whats coming I dont know exact dates nor can I just make a list bam off the top of my head.

Hell I think if anything Nintendo if they dont change things soon is setting themselves up for failure next gen. I mean they have the market right now....a good way to loose it is to not freaking release a single good game for months at a time, it soured many people(myself included)to the GC after the N64 and they are at risk of doing it now. The only reason I argued this is because kids like Mana Knight who try to hype it as sales are only down because of lack of games.
 
[quote name='jer7583']
The PS3 is for high end videophiles who need the highest quality of everything. That's not most of us.

Cheapassgamers should be ashamed to own a PS3.[/QUOTE]
I don't have an HDTV or a TV even remotely categorized as the highest quality and I enjoy my PS3. I can count the games I want on the 360/Wii on one hand which is why I went PS3, it has the games I want and will have the games I want. Why would I pay $400 for a 360 with games I don't want instead of paying the extra money and getting a PS3 that will have the games I do want?


And I am not ashamed in any way, shape, or form for owning a PS3 nor should I be.
 
[quote name='dpatel']How is "nintendo's game" when it is the exact same thing they did with the PS3. And you do know that Sony has more first party titles than nintendo, right? Just making sure because you listed Nintendo has have 'so many' first party titles.[/QUOTE]

Its Nintendos game because last gen Sony was able to fall back on third party support. Sure they put out alot of great titles, but even if they wouldnt have the PS2 would have owned in the game quantity and quality department. Nintendo on the other hand had no choice but to bust their ass putting out quality titles.

And yes I know Sony has more IP....last gen I was constantly arguing with Nintendo fanboys who tried saying Sony's IP sucked, and those saying Sony doesnt have any. Besides what you named I could sit and tick off parapa, Frequency, Wild Arms etc etc. The problem is that while Sony has more IP their IP isnt as good or atleast hasnt been. Sony has alot of bad IP and they have alot of titles that are solid 8s. The problem is they dont have alot of AAA IP. Nintendo in contrast has title after title which when released you know is AAA, plus alot of good second string guys like Kirby which are solid 8s.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I only listed 1 game for the Wii because I dont think Nintendo is doing an amazing job either, and the 360 while getting some games isnt getting any huge system sellers I can think of off the top of my head. Truth is that while I check like 5 news sites everyday and check gamerankings.com atleast once a month keeping a list of every good game that comes out so I can buy it later(even if I dont own the system currently or plan to in a few months), that im really dissapointed so far this gen and not hyped for it at all. The first year always sucks and we are seeing that right now, iv not bought any of the three systems nor do I plan to anytime soon, so while I know whats coming I dont know exact dates nor can I just make a list bam off the top of my head.[/QUOTE]

I agree totally. Although, I have a feeling fall 07 will be very interesting. We do have quite a few big name titles coming out for all consoles. Still plenty more left for all systems for 08 and onward.

I was just wondering why you think "PS3 is hurting" when it seems to be on par with the other two consoles as far as 07 is concerned. That still may be 'hurting', but nothing to be concerned about. I was under the impression that you thought the PS3 was going to be left behind this year.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Hell I think if anything Nintendo if they dont change things soon is setting themselves up for failure next gen. I mean they have the market right now....a good way to loose it is to not freaking release a single good game for months at a time, it soured many people(myself included)to the GC after the N64 and they are at risk of doing it now. The only reason I argued this is because kids like Mana Knight who try to hype it as sales are only down because of lack of games.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Nintendo is in a great place, at the moment, but they have a lot of work to keep it that way. Right now they have the advantage of price and the fact that they are bringing something 'new and exciting' to the table. That 'new and exciting' thing will only last if developers keep thinking of new ways to use the controller. I believe Nintendo's first party will do an excellent job with this, however, being a GCN owner, I remember a lot of waiting for the first party titles to hit. I personally felt like I needed more games to fill the void. Hopefully they either churn out more first party titles, or other developers help with the void, otherwise I don't see a good outlook for the Wii.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Its Nintendos game because last gen Sony was able to fall back on third party support. Sure they put out alot of great titles, but even if they wouldnt have the PS2 would have owned in the game quantity and quality department. Nintendo on the other hand had no choice but to bust their ass putting out quality titles.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. I see what you are saying. PS3 is not 'losing' any 3rd party games, per se, but they are losing exclusivity to them. Still a bad thing for them, but not AS bad as nintendo was with the GCN. So far, Sony seems to be doing a good job with the new IPs. Resistance was a pretty good game (with a little work, I could see it being one of the killer apps), and we have quite a few new IPs scheduled for this year (whether or not they are good is still up in the air, but they are doing a good job in filling the void for missing 3rd party exclusivity).

[quote name='MSI Magus']And yes I know Sony has more IP....last gen I was constantly arguing with Nintendo fanboys who tried saying Sony's IP sucked, and those saying Sony doesnt have any. Besides what you named I could sit and tick off parapa, Frequency, Wild Arms etc etc. The problem is that while Sony has more IP their IP isnt as good or atleast hasnt been. Sony has alot of bad IP and they have alot of titles that are solid 8s. The problem is they dont have alot of AAA IP. Nintendo in contrast has title after title which when released you know is AAA, plus alot of good second string guys like Kirby which are solid 8s.[/QUOTE]

I can't argue with that. Nintendo definitely has the upper hand in the first party department. When people think of Sony's first party, there are too many recognizable games that come to mind (maybe GoW, GT, Killzone, and Socom). But Nintendo has few (but great) established franchises that are huge system sellers (pretty much the only things, like you said, that kept the GCN afloat). I think Sony has a lot of great first party titles, but there are quite a bit, which sorta reduces the impact of the few good ones. Also, most of them are just average, only a few stand out. But, there aren't too many that are horrible, so I'm not going to complain. Would prefer more first party titles for variety, as long as they keep churning out the better ones.
 
Once all the PS3's great games come out everyone's tune here will change pretty quick.

I'm sorry but the Wii looks really weak to me. I'm not into the whole playing 15 year old games on the VC. The launch didn't interest me one bit. I'm not into another Mario game. The only thing I really am interested in is another Mario Party. The whole new innovative control thing is going to wear off at some point. I still don't understand why everyone is so in love with Nintendo after last gen, and I'm betting the same thing will happen all over again. Granted this is just my opinion but people are just a little too gay for the Wii at this point. People I know who bought a Wii were talking about the sports games includedd, not the actual games released. That's pretty messed up. People aare complaining about the PS3 price. I would feel ripped off by the Wii if I bought it. I might be in the minority here but it just does not interest me one bit.

Everyone is not going to be moving to the Wii and 360. It's either going to be one or the other. Wii doesn't look like a system that could stand on its own, you need another system like 360 or PS3 to furfill the gaming needs.

360 had a lot of new unproven games that turned out great...why wouldn't the same thing happen to the PS3's new games? People went out and bought those new 360 games like Dead Rising, Gears, Lost Planet, etc. The unproven arugument is BS. People will buy the games if they look good enough. Didn't all the really good 360 games come out after the system was out for a while? I mean I remember people here bitching about the crappy 360 launch, but now everyone loves it. I for one want a 360 too. I really want a PS3 as well. I think it's great, two systems I really want. Last gen wasn't like that for me. I can't wait.
 
[quote name='Blackout542']Once all the PS3's great games come out everyone's tune here will change pretty quick.

I'm sorry but the Wii looks really weak to me. I'm not into the whole playing 15 year old games on the VC. The launch didn't interest me one bit. I'm not into another Mario game. The only thing I really am interested in is another Mario Party. The whole new innovative control thing is going to wear off at some point. I still don't understand why everyone is so in love with Nintendo after last gen, and I'm betting the same thing will happen all over again. Granted this is just my opinion but people are just a little too gay for the Wii at this point. People I know who bought a Wii were talking about the sports games incldued, not the actual games released. That's pretty messed up.

Everyone is not going to be moving to the Wii and 360. It's either going to be one or the other. Wii doesn't look like a system that could stand on its own, you need another system like 360 or PS3 to furfill the gaming needs.

360 had a lot of new unproven games that turned out great...why wouldn't the same thing happen to the PS3's new games? People went out and bought those new 360 games like Dead Rising, Gears, Lost Planet, etc. The unproven arugument is BS. People will buy the games if they look good enough.[/QUOTE]


*rolls his eyes* Peoples tones here wont change...and yours probally wont either. You will still be treating it like the second coming of Christ.

Yes the PS3 is going to get a couple good games and suddenly everyone is going to ignore the $600 price tag. Sorry it doesnt work that way. The casual market buys based on hype and based on price. So the games wont make the difference. As for gamers, unlike yourself gamers still love Nintendos games and most gamers see a good game as a good game. This means when faced with the option of spending $100s more most will again buy a Wii and spend the extra $400(gurantee that by the time that the PS3 gets its games Wii drops to $200 or less)on games, or they will get a 360 and spend the extra $300(since again there will be a price drop before 08)on games.

Unprooven games are bought if after release they are amazing or hyped. MS did a very good job advertising all those games and as a result even Lost Planet which was seen as meh still sold. Sonys games will have to get the same hype, but on top of it they will be facing an extra $200 price tag, an amazing Xbox 360 line up and also the fact that unlike the 360 they are not some amazingly powerfull product in comparison to the competition(since the 360 was huge leaps from the PS2 but the PS3 isnt huge leaps from the 360).

Sorry, but again I know with each of your posts you ahve like mana knight(though atleast with some form of logic)backed Sony.....but the cards are stacked against them and stacked to the ceiling. As iv said a thousand times I think the PS3 will come out on top.....but its just not going to happan the way you Sony fans keep trying to say. Its going to be a long hard fought battle which takes atleast till 08 to even touch the competition let alone win out.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']*rolls his eyes* Peoples tones here wont change...and yours probally wont either. You will still be treating it like the second coming of Christ.

Yes the PS3 is going to get a couple good games and suddenly everyone is going to ignore the $600 price tag. Sorry it doesnt work that way. The casual market buys based on hype and based on price. So the games wont make the difference. As for gamers, unlike yourself gamers still love Nintendos games and most gamers see a good game as a good game. This means when faced with the option of spending $100s more most will again buy a Wii and spend the extra $400(gurantee that by the time that the PS3 gets its games Wii drops to $200 or less)on games, or they will get a 360 and spend the extra $300(since again there will be a price drop before 08)on games.

Unprooven games are bought if after release they are amazing or hyped. MS did a very good job advertising all those games and as a result even Lost Planet which was seen as meh still sold. Sonys games will have to get the same hype, but on top of it they will be facing an extra $200 price tag, an amazing Xbox 360 line up and also the fact that unlike the 360 they are not some amazingly powerfull product in comparison to the competition(since the 360 was huge leaps from the PS2 but the PS3 isnt huge leaps from the 360).

Sorry, but again I know with each of your posts you ahve like mana knight(though atleast with some form of logic)backed Sony.....but the cards are stacked against them and stacked to the ceiling. As iv said a thousand times I think the PS3 will come out on top.....but its just not going to happan the way you Sony fans keep trying to say. Its going to be a long hard fought battle which takes atleast till 08 to even touch the competition let alone win out.[/quote]

Yeah I know I was in the minority. Like I said I'm not just supporting PS3, I want a 360 as well. I just try to support the PS3 cause everyone is down on it. yeah it deserves some negative press but I mean not as much as it has gotten. Everyone wants it to fail and such, which seems really dumb. Once all the heavy hitters mentioned in the thread come out in 08, wouldn't there be a price drop around that time? That would probably help the system. Combined with the games and price drop what would be in the way?
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']*rolls his eyes* Peoples tones here wont change...and yours probally wont either. You will still be treating it like the second coming of Christ.

Yes the PS3 is going to get a couple good games and suddenly everyone is going to ignore the $600 price tag. Sorry it doesnt work that way. The casual market buys based on hype and based on price. So the games wont make the difference. As for gamers, unlike yourself gamers still love Nintendos games and most gamers see a good game as a good game. This means when faced with the option of spending $100s more most will again buy a Wii and spend the extra $400(gurantee that by the time that the PS3 gets its games Wii drops to $200 or less)on games, or they will get a 360 and spend the extra $300(since again there will be a price drop before 08)on games.

Unprooven games are bought if after release they are amazing or hyped. MS did a very good job advertising all those games and as a result even Lost Planet which was seen as meh still sold. Sonys games will have to get the same hype, but on top of it they will be facing an extra $200 price tag, an amazing Xbox 360 line up and also the fact that unlike the 360 they are not some amazingly powerfull product in comparison to the competition(since the 360 was huge leaps from the PS2 but the PS3 isnt huge leaps from the 360).

Sorry, but again I know with each of your posts you ahve like mana knight(though atleast with some form of logic)backed Sony.....but the cards are stacked against them and stacked to the ceiling. As iv said a thousand times I think the PS3 will come out on top.....but its just not going to happan the way you Sony fans keep trying to say. Its going to be a long hard fought battle which takes atleast till 08 to even touch the competition let alone win out.[/QUOTE]

People won't do an about face with their view on the PS3, but it will definitely change. I remember plenty of people hailing the 360 as the next dreamcast around launch time. Now it the strongest system and the best value at the moment. I have to admit, I was a bit underwhelmed at the 360's launch. It wasn't until Oblivion and GRAW came out that I was truly 'wowed' by the next-gen. But compare GoW to those two games. Better yet, compare GoW to launch 360 games. Seeing how much the 360 has come in only a year makes me confident that Fall 07 will really blow us all away (for all consoles). And if the PS3 is able to produce a game as good as Resistance (not a GREAT game, but pretty good for a launch), then I am really excited about this fall.

AndI realize that you are saying that most people will see the PS3 as just spending $200 more to play 360 games. I agree that there will be plenty of multiplatform games, but most of the exclusives are the ones that garner the most attention and seem to sell systems (aside from Madden and now GTA). Sony still has (unless the exclusivity of these games changes):
MGS
DMC
Killzone
Ratchet
Gran Turismo
Socom
Jak
Team Ico game
White Knight Story
FFXIII
Resistance
Tekken
Lair
Motorstorm
Heavenly Sword
Warhawk

I'm sure I am missing some, but those are some of the major ones. So, people getting a 360 will have to choose if they want those games are not. It isn't as simple as you put it. They each have plenty of exclusives that definitely warrent the price tag. If there weren't, we wouldn't have people owning both xbox and ps3.
 
[quote name='Blackout542']Yeah I know I was in the minority. Like I said I'm not just supporting PS3, I want a 360 as well. I just try to support the PS3 cause everyone is down on it. yeah it deserves some negative press but I mean not as much as it has gotten. Everyone wants it to fail and such, which seems really dumb. Once all the heavy hitters mentioned in the thread come out in 08, wouldn't there be a price drop around that time? That would probably help the system. Combined with the games and price drop what would be in the way?[/QUOTE]

It happens to a lot of systems at launch. Remember this popular comparison:
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3145154
 
Blackout - A price drop is a 50/50 in 08 at this point. When asked if we could see a price drop as fast as we saw one for the PS2 sony heads have time and time again flatly stated no that the PS3 hardware is too expensive to cut prices and that the system will do well at its current price. The first PS2 took 2 years to drop $100 or 1/3rd. So if they are to be trusted it means it will take more then 2 years to see a drop of that kind. My guess is that we WILL see price drops but they will be smaller ones like a $100 drop, and maybe not for awhile. This means in 08 we could potentially see a $600 or at best $500 PS3 against a $300 Xbox. And you can bet that any price drop Sony does MS will match. This again means the PS3 will pretty much always cost $200-$300 more. And again Nintendo has a very cheap cost effective system on their hands meaning they could drop $50 right now and still not loose money. By 08 they can probally drop $100 or more.

So, no I dont think a price drop and the games will help Sony. I mean yes it will help, but not enough to make them market leader, just enough to increase their share of the market so they are not the laughing stock they are right now.

As for people being down on them, you say its uncalled for....but I can understand people who flat out want Sony to die. I dont want them dead, but I want them to either not be the market leader this gen or just barely by the skin on their ass pull it off. Sony forced a crappy medium, an extreame price, they have bullied developers, insulted gamers and in general acted like jackasses recently. I wished for the same for Nintendo a few gens ago, and they got it. Sony got too close to the sun, now its their turn to plummet for forgetting they are not Gods.

dpatel - I disagree with your whole argument. First off a few of those games are rumored to not be exclusive, second again quite a few wont be AAA. Second off your saying a $200 difference, well guess what by Fall 08 you can gurantee it will be a $250 or more likly a $300 difference. Next is the fact that when the 360 came out with its first wave of great games it had no current gen competition, the PS3 will be fighting 2 cheaper next gen system one of which has a library of 2 years worth of games.

Finally the system deffintly doesnt currently warrant the price, and im sorry but even with the PS3s games start hitting it wont. The system will cost $100s more and its games will be no better then the great games hitting the Xbox or the Wii. And its stupid to say that people buying it now shows that the price makes it worth it. All it prooves is that AMericans are stupid and have far too much money. I currently dont work and I wasnt goint to school untill last year. That means I spent almost the whole last gen unemployeed and not in school...I had nothing but time that I did nothing but sit around and play games. Even with all that time I havnt finished every good game from last gen, there are still TONS of them. So that means your average person hasnt played HALF the good games on the last gen systems nor will be able to play half the good games that come out this gen. To say it warrants a $600 price tag is silly, there are too many good games for that.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Blackout - A price drop is a 50/50 in 08 at this point. When asked if we could see a price drop as fast as we saw one for the PS2 sony heads have time and time again flatly stated no that the PS3 hardware is too expensive to cut prices and that the system will do well at its current price. The first PS2 took 2 years to drop $100 or 1/3rd. So if they are to be trusted it means it will take more then 2 years to see a drop of that kind. My guess is that we WILL see price drops but they will be smaller ones like a $100 drop, and maybe not for awhile. This means in 08 we could potentially see a $600 or at best $500 PS3 against a $300 Xbox. And you can bet that any price drop Sony does MS will match. This again means the PS3 will pretty much always cost $200-$300 more. And again Nintendo has a very cheap cost effective system on their hands meaning they could drop $50 right now and still not loose money. By 08 they can probally drop $100 or more.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I'm not even sure the 360 will drop this year. They have no reason to. They are selling really well, and have yet to release their flagship titles. Why lower the price when people are still buying these like crazy.

As for Sony's comment on price drops. I wouldn't take their word for it. I personally think we won't see one until mid to late 08 (maybe sooner if 360 drops the price this year). Of course, Sony will never hint at a price drop until it actually happens. Reason being, any indication of a price in the near future will cause people to wait for the price drop. Some people wanting to get it this xmas might wait a few extra months if there was a hint at a price drop sometime in 08. Announcing a price drop in advance will do them no good for the time being.

[quote name='MSI Magus']So, no I dont think a price drop and the games will help Sony. I mean yes it will help, but not enough to make them market leader, just enough to increase their share of the market so they are not the laughing stock they are right now.

As for people being down on them, you say its uncalled for....but I can understand people who flat out want Sony to die. I dont want them dead, but I want them to either not be the market leader this gen or just barely by the skin on their ass pull it off. Sony forced a crappy medium, an extreame price, they have bullied developers, insulted gamers and in general acted like jackasses recently. I wished for the same for Nintendo a few gens ago, and they got it. Sony got too close to the sun, now its their turn to plummet for forgetting they are not Gods.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Sony definitely needs to be taken down a few notches. I would still like for them to succeed, but if they were to have a PS2-esque lead, that would mean hell next-generation. Fortunately, its pretty much impossible for them to replicate the success of the PS2. Like I said before, the race between sony and MS will be extremely close. It won't matter who is 'winning' between them because both will be too close for anyone to care.

And, blu-ray, a crappy medium? It may not be worth the extra money, but it is, in no way, crappy. The only downside seems to be read speeds, but so far that doesn't seem to have poised a major problem.


[quote name='MSI Magus']dpatel - I disagree with your whole argument. First off a few of those games are rumored to not be exclusive, second again quite a few wont be AAA. Second off your saying a $200 difference, well guess what by Fall 08 you can gurantee it will be a $250 or more likly a $300 difference. Next is the fact that when the 360 came out with its first wave of great games it had no current gen competition, the PS3 will be fighting 2 cheaper next gen system one of which has a library of 2 years worth of games.[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong. I have a feeling, as time goes on, less of those will be exclusive. But we can't really say anything based on the notion that we think will happen. I am just going by official word for now. I see a lot of those going multi to the 360 (probably will be timed exclusive on the PS3, much like many 360 games were before getting ported to the PS3).

As for the price difference, we don't KNOW it will drop. I think 360 is in a comfortable position right now and can afford to stick to that price. However, it would also make sense to drop it and stop Sony before they get the ball rolling. There are plenty of reasons as to why either situation will happen. You can't guarantee something like a price drop though. Personally, I'm leaning more towards a price drop sometime in 08. MS has Halo 3 coming out this xmas will which definitely sell systems. Why take an additional $50-$100 hit when you have something as popular as Halo to sell systems.

But let me just reiterate: I do think it is possible that any of the games (besides the obvious first party titles) I listed can go multiplatform. I also know its possible for the PS3 to not drop in price, and the 360 to drop later this year. I am solely speaking based on the information we know now, and what I think. And so are you. I guess the two of us could go back and forth about who is right about these games and price drops, but the truth is, neither of us know for sure. Only time will tell.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Finally the system deffintly doesnt currently warrant the price, and im sorry but even with the PS3s games start hitting it wont. The system will cost $100s more and its games will be no better then the great games hitting the Xbox or the Wii. And its stupid to say that people buying it now shows that the price makes it worth it. All it prooves is that AMericans are stupid and have far too much money. I currently dont work and I wasnt goint to school untill last year. That means I spent almost the whole last gen unemployeed and not in school...I had nothing but time that I did nothing but sit around and play games. Even with all that time I havnt finished every good game from last gen, there are still TONS of them. So that means your average person hasnt played HALF the good games on the last gen systems nor will be able to play half the good games that come out this gen. To say it warrants a $600 price tag is silly, there are too many good games for that.[/QUOTE]

The price on the PS3 is different from person to person. The general consensus, as of now, seems to be that it is NOT worth the $600 price tag. I have to agree. I still bought one, because I knew it would prove its worth later on in its life. This is sorta like the other argument we are having. We can both say that people will or wont think the PS3 is worth it in X amount of months, but its pointless to keep arguing, since there is no way we can take into account every different gamer. Some MAY think it is worth it at $600 at launch. Some may think its worth it this fall at $600. Some may only buy it when it hits $300 or less. It's just going to vary from person to person. At the moment, most people don't feel it is worth it, which I agree with. Not many consoles prove their worth until at least 2 years into the gen.

Anyway, I do appreciate that you actually refute my posts with actual reasoning. It seems like we disagree and points that can't really be proved by each of us, and will only be revealed over time. So, I kinda feel its pointless to say who and when will drop the price of their consoles, and what games will go multi. We won't know either of these things until they happen.
 
Just say it is a good time to be a gamer. Every console has something going for it. Let's just hope the developers keep it interesting.

Even if the PS3 is sexy, the price tag is turning off alot of people. Not many games out to hold it up either. Not everyone would go for Resistance. Though I would. Just seems like the PS3 is not mass market material yet. It will survive and we will have great games. Besides being high tech, to the average consumer it's just a high priced video game system.

I just got a Wii this last week after a friend of mine kept talking about it (besides you guys). His family is eating it up and all they have is Wii Sports. He got 3 extra wiimotes just for that. I would tag him a casual gamer. Now I can not get him to shut up. :) He is usually tight with his money, but he asking about what games he should get.

Nintendo has hit the sweet spot in my opinion. They just seem to nail the average consumer. Hell, if they only had 1st party software, I would still buy. They have also sparked that passion for gaming I've been missing for some time. That is another challenge the PS3 has. Keeping it interesting and fresh.

I'll be picking up a 360 in a couple of weeks. If I had the money I would get a PS3 also. Just not enough to justify a purchase yet. I :drool: over great looking games and :) at great playing ones. Just like to have the best of both worlds.

Sony is having a hard time convincing the average consumer of what they have. To some it may seem that is not any more different than the PS2 except for being more powerful. They probably would not have any idea how that would affect games. Sony is not showing off their system that well IMHO. Unlike how the wiimotes scream different for the Wii. It's all in the perception people have. Makes you think that MS did the right thing by not calling the 360 the XBox 2.
 
I know a few people who I have never thought would even play game (two girls and one old dude) but one of them already have a Wii and the others are looking for a Wii... Nintendo could just keep coming out with those 'sport' games or pet game ala Nintendog.. and I think, they'll do alright..

I haven't get the Wii yet.. but waiting for the new color to (hopefully) hit up this year.... I may end up getting a 360 once the price drop a bit later.. for PS3.. it will be a longgggg time before I get it..(sub $300 possibly $250) but one day I'd defenitely get it.. for its exclusive...
 
The wii appeals to a lot more people than the 360 or ps3. I know the average non-gamer likes to get into something without having to worry about complicated interfaces or controls. It's gonna do well, I don't think the sentiment of certain fanboy gamers will change that. ;)
 
Are you guys so out of touch to think that things like Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Lair, Killzone, Final Fantasy, or Motorstorm are going to really appeal to the mainstream gamer enough to pay $600?

The people who made up half or more of the PS2's sales got it because they saw tons of $20 games for a cheap system that would shut their kids up. Or they saw the only system you could play Vice City on. They also saw it as a cheap movie player for an established, cheap new format that DIDN'T require you to buy a new TV to get any difference out of.

I don't get how nobody understands that Sony is effectively shutting out the majority of their former customers with this price. The PS3 will take years to approach a price that these kind of people will consider. The 360 will get there much faster, and the Wii even sooner.

This is not about if there will be games for the PS3, it's about will there be anyone but the most hardcore of the past PS2 market there to play them? I say no.

I'm not saying Sony will fail, I'm just saying that they aren't going to have the lead this time, that much I am certain of.

Someone said i was giving too much of my personal view. I didn't think so, but here's my personal view. The PS3 is overpriced. Most of the titles I want are going to be on both 360 and PS3. I love the achievements system and have an established friends list on 360 that I wouldn't ever abandon. Truth is I even have a hard time getting into Wii games because there's no achievements and no ease of use like xbox live. The PS3 has Zero games that interest me at the moment. I don't like Sony's arrogance. I don't like the games they ARE coming out with. I don't like the controller for FPS games or much of anything else. I don't like the dumbed down motion sensitivity. I don't like the PS3. That's my opinion.
 
MS will drop price. Nintendo and Sony will both cut into their market and Halo 3 is the only big gun they have left to drop, there is no way they wont drop price. Hell most anaylsts are suprised that we havnt seen one and that they have no plans to do it in the next month or two.

I dont take Sonys word on the price drop, If I didnt I wouldnt have said I think we will see one in the next year. IM just saying that first we wont see it anytime soon and second if they do drop MS and Nintendo follow suit meaning Sonys price drop while not meaning zilch, means little.

Blue Ray is not a crappy medium. But when it comes to gaming it is, it is pricey and pushes up the cost of the system $100s of dollars while offering little benefits. As a movie medium its fine...but as for a gaming medium its shit.

*sigh* No we cant say anything will happan for certain. But based on history, sales etc etc we can make very likly predictions. Im sorry if you think we shouldnt but I see no point in not trying. I mean seriously thats what this board is for, discussion of gaming news and its future. The future is very likly as iv said, that MS will drop price first and even if they dont they will right after which will hurt Sony. And also that Sony will continue to loose exclusives.

Finally on price point you dont seem to be taking into consideration that while everyone has their own price in mind of what something is worth....that price drops as time goes on and circumstances change. So while the price of the PS3 to some people may be $500 but their price point for the 360 may be $300. If the Xbox hits its price first then that person will buy an Xbox and the desire of the PS3 will go down. Same with games, with every game Sony looses exclusitivity to, and every delay they have it chips away at the value people see. So again, I say Sony is loosing this war and the only thing that can fix it is saying they fucked up and dropping price in a MASSIVE way. They wont do that...so they will loose, atleast in the sense that its going to cost them atleast 40% market share.
 
[quote name='jer7583']Are you guys so out of touch to think that things like Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Lair, Killzone, Final Fantasy, or Motorstorm are going to really appeal to the mainstream gamer enough to pay $600?

[/quote]

I 100% agree with you. As I read through a lot of posts, it always strikes me that people that post on this website think they are the "typical" person who plays video games, when this is so unbelievably far from the truth.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']I 100% agree with you. As I read through a lot of posts, it always strikes me that people that post on this website think they are the "typical" person who plays video games, when this is so unbelievably from the truth.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, while I often think Jer hates sony far too much I feel that he makes good points often and thats one of them. Gamers at any message board act like they are the typical gamer, when infact most people at them are either hardcore gamers or somewhere between casual and hardcore. The average gamer is going to have no clue that one of the big games is coming out till either a friend informs them or they see a commerical on TV.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']I 100% agree with you. As I read through a lot of posts, it always strikes me that people that post on this website think they are the "typical" person who plays video games, when this is so unbelievably from the truth.[/QUOTE]

I realize that the vast majority of gamers buy consoles when they are in the sub-$200 range. I also realize that not many will pay $500/$600 (yes there is a $500 version that many seem to be neglecting) for a console. But, I believe, by the time these casual gamers are ready to make their purchase, the consoles will all be relatively low in price. There are also hardcore gamers willing to pay $500/$600 who are just waiting for the right games to come along. It's not like all people willing to pay $600 have done so already. PS3 will gain more sales as more games come out. I was never expecting it to magically boost up its sales because of these 'big guns'. I just saw a bunch of people posting how the PS3 was in trouble because many of its games are also on the PS3. I posted games that will set itself apart from the 360. I have no idea if that will be enough to convince gamers to spend the extra money for a PS3. As for the casual gamer market, prices and game selection will be quite different by the time they decide to jump to the next-gen.

[quote name='MSI Magus']MS will drop price. Nintendo and Sony will both cut into their market and Halo 3 is the only big gun they have left to drop, there is no way they wont drop price. Hell most anaylsts are suprised that we havnt seen one and that they have no plans to do it in the next month or two.[/QUOTE]

We don't KNOW what MS will do. We can only speculate. I see good reasons for them to drop, and good reasons for them to stay. And, you just admitted that Halo 3 is MSs only 'big gun' they have left. So why were you criticizing the PS3 for having no 'big guns' left this year, when they clearly have a good amount (as you have seen)?

[quote name='MSI Magus']I dont take Sonys word on the price drop, If I didnt I wouldnt have said I think we will see one in the next year. IM just saying that first we wont see it anytime soon and second if they do drop MS and Nintendo follow suit meaning Sonys price drop while not meaning zilch, means little.[/QUOTE]

I see Sony waiting as long as they can to drop the price, simply because they are still losing on the hardware (MS, just recently, and Ninty are profiting). MS will be the first to drop, and the rest will follow (in my opinion).

[quote name='MSI Magus']Blue Ray is not a crappy medium. But when it comes to gaming it is, it is pricey and pushes up the cost of the system $100s of dollars while offering little benefits. As a movie medium its fine...but as for a gaming medium its shit.[/QUOTE]

I still disagree. Without taking costs into consideration, Blu-ray is great. But when you factor in the price, yes it isn't as great. It will benefit gamers little (it is mainly a benefit to developers), and the costs outweigh the benefits.

[quote name='MSI Magus']*sigh* No we cant say anything will happan for certain. But based on history, sales etc etc we can make very likly predictions. Im sorry if you think we shouldnt but I see no point in not trying. I mean seriously thats what this board is for, discussion of gaming news and its future. The future is very likly as iv said, that MS will drop price first and even if they dont they will right after which will hurt Sony. And also that Sony will continue to loose exclusives.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying we shouldn't make predictions. I just think it is pointless for you and I to go back and forth with these predictions, since we both seem to be repeating ourselves. And yes, its pretty much guaranteed Sony will loose exclusives, as will MS. We have already seen evidence of this so far. MS has lost more (but that is because they had a larger library to lose from) and Sony will lose more in the future too. It's inevitable.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Finally on price point you dont seem to be taking into consideration that while everyone has their own price in mind of what something is worth....that price drops as time goes on and circumstances change. So while the price of the PS3 to some people may be $500 but their price point for the 360 may be $300. If the Xbox hits its price first then that person will buy an Xbox and the desire of the PS3 will go down. Same with games, with every game Sony looses exclusitivity to, and every delay they have it chips away at the value people see. So again, I say Sony is loosing this war and the only thing that can fix it is saying they fucked up and dropping price in a MASSIVE way. They wont do that...so they will loose, atleast in the sense that its going to cost them atleast 40% market share.[/QUOTE]

True. But you are assuming that people see the difference in value between the two as $200. Looking strictly at prices, the two are $200 apart. Some may value one of the other. Someone who thinks the PS3 is worth $500, isn't automatically going to want the 360 at $200 less. It doesn't work like that.

And I agree that Sony will loose market share. I really don't think there is any way they can gain market share after the PS2, its simply impossible. The PS2 was a huge success, that even a great PS3 will see a decline in market share, simply because MS and Nintendo are better competitors this time around. And you keep pointing out that Sony is loosing exclusives, but you do realize that all consoles are losing exclusives. Nintendo lost RE (probably their biggest 3rd party franchise of last gen), MS has already lost numerous titles that went to the PS3: Oblivion, Full Auto, Enchant Arms, GRAW, Fight Night (not sure if all of these were supposed to be exclusive. I know the first 3 were).
 
The percent of hardcore gamers waiting to buy systems is small. Hardcore gamers are not even half the market anymore, id be suprised if we are above 20%. Also a good % of that are the intial wave that buy launch systems.

I was saying that Halo is MS themselves only big gun, not the only big game hitting the system this year. And again I dont give a shit what you say. History, anaylsts, comments from the companies and basic logic are on my side. MS will drop this year.

You can disagree all you want on blue ray. You yourself had to add with price aside. With price aside alot of failed systems and formats have been great. As I said when you have to put the biggest complaint aside as you did with price there you know you ahve a problem. Blu Ray is a horrible medium for gaming period. It doesnt matter if its got alot of potential and in theory is awsome, the price is too high for this generation. Hell you yourself ended it by saying costs outweight benefits. I dont understand why you keep arguing with me(im about done with you at this point)because you just keep admitting to most of my points.

I can pretty much state as a fact that $200 is most peoples price point. Lets look at the facts.

1. People are saying that $600 is amazingly crazy price and pissed off at Sony about it.
2. People said the 360 cost too much yet a fair number bought it at that price.
3. People have ran to the Wii at $250.
4. People bought the PS2 at $300 but bought it in droves at $200.

Could add alot more but that should be enough. Its well shown that $200 is the target mark where people start buying a system in large amounts. $300 quite a few people will pay but not all. $400 is what a fair amount of people will pay but the number is dropping off very fast. Anything above that is going to be questionable, and again if the other systems are $150-$200 and $300 your just not going to get people to bite at $500....$400 is even a hard sell.

I think im done with this conversation now. You havnt been rude, in fact you have been polite. However, I dont think you will budge at all from your views. I think that your just going to hold to them even if ALMOST all the facts are against you.
 
I don't think a lot of people bought the PS2 just for the cheap price games. When all the huge games came out (like GTA 3) I can't recall having any worthwhile $20 games, if there was any. People bought the system around that time for GTA3. In fact maybe only people who waited only like 3 or 4 years later bought when a massive amount of good games were $20. If for any system that would happen it would be for the Cube: really cheap games and a cheap system price.

Hell if Sony doesn't come on top this gen who cares? It won't flat out fail anyway. After the PS2 I think they can take a number 2 spot. PS3 won't even come close to PS2 but it will be right up there with 360.

I think what really helped boost Sony in the past(with the PS2) was GTA3. It was an exclusive then. They need another huge game like that.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']The percent of hardcore gamers waiting to buy systems is small. Hardcore gamers are not even half the market anymore, id be suprised if we are above 20%. Also a good % of that are the intial wave that buy launch systems.[/QUOTE]

I never said they were that big. Just pointing out that the $600/$500 crowd hasn't been tapped yet.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I was saying that Halo is MS themselves only big gun, not the only big game hitting the system this year. And again I dont give a shit what you say. History, anaylsts, comments from the companies and basic logic are on my side. MS will drop this year.[/QUOTE]

I'm not asking you to give a shit about what I say. I am stating my opinion, and you are stating yours. Like I have said numerous times before, it is pointless to continue on with this 'will MS drop the price' because, as you can see, we have repeated ourselves for the past 3 or 4 posts with no progress. So you think they will, I think there is a good chance of both, but more likely they will stay at $300/$400. Let's leave it at that, because nothing will end this argument over the price drop except the actual price drop.

[quote name='MSI Magus']You can disagree all you want on blue ray. You yourself had to add with price aside. With price aside alot of failed systems and formats have been great. As I said when you have to put the biggest complaint aside as you did with price there you know you ahve a problem. Blu Ray is a horrible medium for gaming period. It doesnt matter if its got alot of potential and in theory is awsome, the price is too high for this generation. Hell you yourself ended it by saying costs outweight benefits. I dont understand why you keep arguing with me(im about done with you at this point)because you just keep admitting to most of my points.[/QUOTE]

You said it was a 'crappy medium', as in the actual format was crappy. I assumed you were referring to the actual format. If you were taking into account price, probability of success, etc, then I misunderstood you. But it seems like your main problem with blu-ray is the price. If so, it would've made more sense to say blu-ray is too expensive, instead of calling it a crappy medium. It is not crappy, it is just expensive, which is what you meant to say, but didn't. That is where the misunderstanding came into play. It's also why I put price aside, because, when you call something 'crappy', instead of 'expensive' its logical to assume we are speaking in reference to the actual format. So, if you meant to say that it isn't crappy, but it is expensive, then I just misunderstood you.

And what do you mean by 'admitting to most of your points'? You make it sound as if I am changing my arguments and backpeddling my argument. I am really not 'admitting' to anything. I'm not even sure why you seem to be getting so worked up. I was just stating my opinon on certain matters. It seems we disagree on some things and agree on others.


[quote name='MSI Magus']I can pretty much state as a fact that $200 is most peoples price point. Lets look at the facts.

1. People are saying that $600 is amazingly crazy price and pissed off at Sony about it.
2. People said the 360 cost too much yet a fair number bought it at that price.
3. People have ran to the Wii at $250.
4. People bought the PS2 at $300 but bought it in droves at $200.[/QUOTE]

Firstly, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If you had noticed before, I stated numerous times that the majority of PS2s were sold in the sub-$200 range, so no disagreement there. What I was disagreeing with was the fact that you cited people as automatically having their 360 price point be $200 less than the PS3. This is what you said:
"So while the price of the PS3 to some people may be $500 but their price point for the 360 may be $300."
That's what I responding to. Basically I was saying that some people might have a price point of $300 for both the PS3 and 360. Or a price point of $400 for the 360 and only $100 for the PS3 (meaning they really dont want a PS3 until about 6 years from now). Or the other way around. Just because they retail with a $200 difference, doesn't mean people will equate the difference in value as $200.

But, like I said before, $200 and below seems to be where the casuals come in, and the Wii and 360 are much closer to that price point than the PS3 is. I never disagreed with that.

1. Agreed. There was a huge backlash against Sony, and it was warrented.
2. I remember some backlash for the $400 price and the $60 games. Keep in mind that Sony has actually outsold the 360 in the same time frame, and it has yet to launch in the rest of the world. Of course, 360 had a much harder time with supply meeting demand than the PS3 did, so we don't really know if that is an indication of how popular the respective systems were at their launches.
3. Wii has done a good job with their price point. I personally think it is overprice, but I won't get into that.
4. Also, like I said in point 2, the PS3 has outsold the PS2 in the same time frame. Of course, both the PS2 and 360 had MAJOR shortage issues, which most definitely prevented them from meeting their potential.

[quote name='MSI Magus']Could add alot more but that should be enough. Its well shown that $200 is the target mark where people start buying a system in large amounts. $300 quite a few people will pay but not all. $400 is what a fair amount of people will pay but the number is dropping off very fast. Anything above that is going to be questionable, and again if the other systems are $150-$200 and $300 your just not going to get people to bite at $500....$400 is even a hard sell.[/QUOTE]

Yea, like I said, I didn't mean to refute that statement. I agree that $200 is the magic price point for casuals. I think you might've misunderstood my original statement about the $200. Anyway, we both seem to agree on this point.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I think im done with this conversation now. You havnt been rude, in fact you have been polite. However, I dont think you will budge at all from your views. I think that your just going to hold to them even if ALMOST all the facts are against you.[/QUOTE]

Heh, that's what I have been saying all along. Most of these points we just keep repeating ourselves on, and its going nowhere. I respect your views, and you have definitely showed reasons as to why you hold those views (some reasons pretty damn good). But all we can do is speculate at this point. Obviously, we have gotten to the point where we won't budge and will just waste time repeating ourselves.

As for the facts being against me, we'll just see about that man.

Also, I have a feeling you may have gotten the wrong impression from me. I was trying to be rude or to call you a liar or anything. I just like discussing things like this. Usually when someone makes a claim (like you originally did), I like to discuss it and see why they think that. I usually learn a lot from hearing other people's views, and thats all I was doin man. Didn't mean to piss you off or anything. But I appreciate that you actually responded to my posts with logic and reason.
 
You didnt piss me off, and I wasnt saying you were rude...I was thanking you for not being rude or name calling...you again missunderstood me. Again my last post was thanking you for debatting instead of arguing and raising points instead of name calling like so many others here like Myke. It was nice talking to someone for a change that even if we didnt agree(though alot if not most stuff we agreed on there was just alot of missunderstandings and I felt you were arguing with me for no reason)we could disagree in a polite way and have a discussion....beats the hell out of the guys here who just name call and act arrogant.
 
yea, definitely. i hate it when someone disagrees with me and, instead of actually reasoning with me, they just resort to name calling or something else stupid.
 
[quote name='lordxixor101']Nasum, the "cars" argument, though inventive, is truely flawed. Cars are a mature item. PS2s's sell, yet you can get them everywhere. But, new electronics shouldn't be on the shelf, if for no other reason than image.

I'll be shocked if this truely hurts anyone. Let's be honest, I bet you most people in the industry still believe the PS3 will be at the top at the end.

Overall, I think too much is being made of this. PS3 will be a slow seller, but I think it'll sell. I think it'll be another year or so before even rumors of anything drastic happen. Honestly, Blue Ray is here to stay.

Wubb: I think you hit the nail on the head about Konami. They would have too much at stake in Sony's game here, so I think you can pretty much sense that MGS4 will make it's way, in some form, to the 360.

Heck, VF5 already going, I'm sure there is room for it. I can't see Sony having any 3rd party exclusives right now, it just doesn't make any sense, unless Sony is paying a hefty price for the rights.[/quote]
As soon as the big name games start coming the PS3 will sell, just like any other console, I bet Halo 2 moved quite a few Xbox systems in its time and same as the PS3 will when a killer app comes out.

And I thought the car analogy was quite funny, the only people who buy intop the doomsayer crap are fanboys, anti-sony people and idiots who can't save up enough money to get one and can only complain about the cost.

BluRay will suceed, come Christmas time and Spiderman 3's release on DVD and BluRay only (oh yeah, no HD-DVD release since SONY owns the movie studio making it) will be a major factor among others that will spur on the BluRay disc sales.

Gimme a break if Kojima loved MS so much we woulda saw a port of MGS 3 to the Xbox or 360. Did we, no (of either Snake Eater or Substience, which would have made sense since it had online capabilities) and I highly doubt we'll see a port to the 360 of MGS4, again speculation of fanboys who don't wanna get an expensive PS3.... :roll:

Kojima doesn't want to port it, he's already said as much. Unless Konami gets Ocelot to put a gun to his head I don't honestly see it happening, unless they pull an RE4 and do it with another internal studio, without Kojima's approval.

And the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war will be over before all of you might think, again it comes down to movie titles, and so far Blu-Ray has the support that HD-DVD wished it had, and there is no porn argument since it's on both media now.

And one other thing...pirates. They won't put money down on a system that hasn't been hacked or made able to download content to play on their system.

Look at the Xbox, I know at least 3-4 people personally that modded the system to do that, and know copied X360 games are out there, sure PS3 has been ripped but no one wants to pay the price for a BD burner or the media to burn it to since they can't play it at the moment as it is.

As much as I don't condone piracy, I hate to say it but it really drives system sales, that much is apparent.
 
[quote name='uncle5555']Gimme a break if Kojima loved MS so much we woulda saw a port of MGS 3 to the Xbox or 360. Did we, no (of either Snake Eater or Substience, which would have made sense since it had online capabilities) and I highly doubt we'll see a port to the 360 of MGS4, again speculation of fanboys who don't wanna get an expensive PS3.... :roll:

Kojima doesn't want to port it, he's already said as much. Unless Konami gets Ocelot to put a gun to his head I don't honestly see it happening, unless they pull an RE4 and do it with another internal studio, without Kojima's approval. [/quote]He may not want to, but they're going to have to. A game of that calibur needs all the potential sales it can get. Sony, at best, will get a timed exclusive on it before it hits the 360. I also wouldn't be surprised if a scaled-back version hit the Wii too.

[quote name='uncle5555'] As much as I don't condone piracy, I hate to say it but it really drives system sales, that much is apparent.[/quote]But when you lose $250-$300 on each system sold, hardware sold to people who won't buy any software is not a good thing.
 
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