"Special" driver's license for California illegals

"My son was killed by an uninsured motorist," he said. "It bothers me when we have people saying that this bill is not about public safety. If we do not give legal licenses and get people trained on how to drive and get people insured, Californians will die."
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me, good bill.
 
I think

trap5vq.jpg
 
When someone drives badly when I'm out I just start yelling curse words at them. They never hear me :D

....Except the times I forget the windows are open :hot:
 
(This is just my 2 cents not just on the discussion on the news but about illegal citizens and even the legal ones for that matter - therefore what I say might offend a few. This is just me speaking my 2 cents, I'm only letting out where I stand. The only thing I ask for in return is obviously some good mature replies so we all can discuss this... so now with my warning out of the way....)

Okay, I'm not going to say this to be mean but... by doing stuff like this its only going to encourage these illegal immigrants to keep flooding their way into our country. I don't know about you folks but are you getting sick and tired of our tax dollars going towards trying to keep them from getting in here, and some of those who we let in legally just sign a flipping X on a piece of paper then suddenly get welfare, housing, medical care, etc etc etc.... while we are struggling day to day with this same stuff.

I know my rant has gone a bit off topic from it being about these "special" drivers licenses for illegal citizens in this country but my god.... how much farther do we need to go before this country just needs to say NO.
 
[quote name='demomanTNA'](This is just my 2 cents not just on the discussion on the news but about illegal citizens and even the legal ones for that matter - therefore what I say might offend a few. This is just me speaking my 2 cents, I'm only letting out where I stand. The only thing I ask for in return is obviously some good mature replies so we all can discuss this... so now with my warning out of the way....)

Okay, I'm not going to say this to be mean but... by doing stuff like this its only going to encourage these illegal immigrants to keep flooding their way into our country. I don't know about you folks but are you getting sick and tired of our tax dollars going towards trying to keep them from getting in here, and some of those who we let in legally just sign a flipping X on a piece of paper then suddenly get welfare, housing, medical care, etc etc etc.... while we are struggling day to day with this same stuff.

I know my rant has gone a bit off topic from it being about these "special" drivers licenses for illegal citizens in this country but my god.... how much farther do we need to go before this country just needs to say NO.[/QUOTE]

We make more money than we lose from them. We get tax money from them etc. The legal immigrants (hispanics anyway) have a low unemployment rate, and come here for work and improving their lives (like the illegals), the ones who just want to sit and do nothing are easily the exception (like every other group), not the rule.

Though, as for drivers licenses, do you want to make a point and don't give them licenses, which will result in people driving who don't know how to and don't have any training, or people who actually went through the RMV to get their license and have at least some level of competence.
 
It's true. America makes more money than we lose on illegals. But most racist people tend to do any research and stick with what they think is right, especially when its wrong.

Bigots. Did you also know that most african americans have been here longer than most whites. pilgrims landed in 3 years after the first introduction to black slaves in 1617.
 
[quote name='demomanTNA'](This is just my 2 cents not just on the discussion on the news but about illegal citizens and even the legal ones for that matter - therefore what I say might offend a few. This is just me speaking my 2 cents, I'm only letting out where I stand. The only thing I ask for in return is obviously some good mature replies so we all can discuss this... so now with my warning out of the way....)

Okay, I'm not going to say this to be mean but... by doing stuff like this its only going to encourage these illegal immigrants to keep flooding their way into our country. I don't know about you folks but are you getting sick and tired of our tax dollars going towards trying to keep them from getting in here, and some of those who we let in legally just sign a flipping X on a piece of paper then suddenly get welfare, housing, medical care, etc etc etc.... while we are struggling day to day with this same stuff.

I know my rant has gone a bit off topic from it being about these "special" drivers licenses for illegal citizens in this country but my god.... how much farther do we need to go before this country just needs to say NO.[/QUOTE]

Where's your data to support these assertions?

myke.
 
[quote name='doodle777_98']It's true. America makes more money than we lose on illegals. But most racist people tend to do any research and stick with what they think is right, especially when its wrong.

Bigots. Did you also know that most african americans have been here longer than most whites. pilgrims landed in 3 years after the first introduction to black slaves in 1617.[/QUOTE]

America? Mebbe. Corporations and farmers? You're damn skippy.

If, as some people without any data might say, "these illegal immigrants are a burden on the system," I would consider drivers' licenses to be a moot point. If they're unemployed, after all, how are they going to afford an automobile?

Or, again, we get into the contradictory notions of "unemployed" immigrants who soak the system, and the immigrants who "took your job because they work cheap." I'm curious which is the case.

myke.
...it's a conspiracy by the oil industry, to tap an untouched resource (because they weren't driving before)!!! I fucking kid.
 
also tax wise and money wise illegal immigrants give more money. Alot of immigrants use fake SS# and since they dont want to get caught all the taxes taken is given to the government. Now they are trying to let them have a better way to claim taxes. here's from an article at here .

"A tax refund is one of the main reasons Lorenzo Arteaga Victoria is at the tax seminar. This Mexican immigrant has been living and working illegally in Houston for about 10 years and says he doesn't know how much he has paid in taxes in that time. But when one of his co-workers at a local bodyshop told him about the tax ID number, Mr. Arteaga was immediately interested.

"Oh, yes, I'd like to get some of that money back," he says, clutching his new tax papers. "But the principle reason is that I want to be correct with the law.""
 
[quote name='mykevermin']America? Mebbe. Corporations and farmers? You're damn skippy.

If, as some people without any data might say, "these illegal immigrants are a burden on the system," I would consider drivers' licenses to be a moot point. If they're unemployed, after all, how are they going to afford an automobile?

Or, again, we get into the contradictory notions of "unemployed" immigrants who soak the system, and the immigrants who "took your job because they work cheap." I'm curious which is the case.

myke.
...it's a conspiracy by the oil industry, to tap an untouched resource (because they weren't driving before)!!! I fucking kid.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they're a burden, but illegal is illegal. If they don't walk into the DMV and end up on a bus back to Mexico then this is bullshit.

I'd be fine with opening the boarders completely, but as long as they're breaking the law they should have absolutely no rights.
 
[quote name='doodle777_98']It's true. America makes more money than we lose on illegals. But most racist people tend to do any research and stick with what they think is right, especially when its wrong.
[/QUOTE]

American buisnesses make more, illegals help to keep the minimum wage down and hey if the minimum wage is to high than you just pay some of them under the counter. This reduction in labor cost of course means that americans make less.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']I don't think they're a burden, but illegal is illegal. If they don't walk into the DMV and end up on a bus back to Mexico then this is bullshit.

I'd be fine with opening the boarders completely, but as long as they're breaking the law they should have absolutely no rights.[/QUOTE]

But isn't it better to make it so that illegals don't harm legal citizens? This helps to make the roads safer.
 
[quote name='doodle777_98']Unless you work at mcdonalds then you shouldnt have to worry about min wage.[/QUOTE]

:wall: First off plenty of other places pay people minimum wage. Secondly a low minimum wage keeps the wages for all unskilled labor low.
 
This is one of the few times I side with the republicans. I live in California and I am hispanic. I inclined to think that this is not a good idea.

Also, i really have a hard time believing that illegal immigrants are paying taxes. Alot of them are paid under the table.
 
[quote name='Xevious']This is one of the few times I side with the republicans. I live in California and I am hispanic. I inclined to think that this is not a good idea.

Also, i really have a hard time believing that illegal immigrants are paying taxes. Alot of them are paid under the table.[/QUOTE]

And they do what with the money they earn?
 
[quote name='doodle777_98']It's true. America makes more money than we lose on illegals. But most racist people tend to do any research and stick with what they think is right, especially when its wrong.[/QUOTE]

This is a common misconception of those who want to continue the mass violation of our immigration laws. Check out this site for more detailed info.

http://www.cis.org/topics/costs.html

What we need is to stop the illegal immigration by tightening up the border, then allow more legal immigration to happen, and/or an ordered guest worker program. There are people who wait decades on waiting lists to immigrate to the U.S., yet people who break the law to do it get an advantage. I don't think that's fair. Let's let more people in legally, where we can keep people like terrorists out through background checks, and stop the illegals.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']This is a common misconception of those who want to continue the mass violation of our immigration laws. Check out this site for more detailed info.

http://www.cis.org/topics/costs.html

What we need is to stop the illegal immigration by tightening up the border, then allow more legal immigration to happen, and/or an ordered guest worker program. There are people who wait decades on waiting lists to immigrate to the U.S., yet people who break the law to do it get an advantage. I don't think that's fair. Let's let more people in legally, where we can keep people like terrorists out through background checks, and stop the illegals.[/QUOTE]

Ya know, another way to stop it is working with countries south of us, particularly mexico (which gets a lot of immigrants, who intend to stay there, anyway), in improving their economy. Instead of doing what benefits us most economically, doing what benefits them would go towards creating better conditions and less reason to come to the u.s., especially illegally.
 
They'll drive without licenses anyways...........and alonzomourning has a really good point. The only reason they come here illegally is because their countries of origin suck.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']This is a common misconception of those who want to continue the mass violation of our immigration laws. Check out this site for more detailed info.

http://www.cis.org/topics/costs.html

What we need is to stop the illegal immigration by tightening up the border, then allow more legal immigration to happen, and/or an ordered guest worker program. There are people who wait decades on waiting lists to immigrate to the U.S., yet people who break the law to do it get an advantage. I don't think that's fair. Let's let more people in legally, where we can keep people like terrorists out through background checks, and stop the illegals.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. We have to stop trying to justify their actions and remember that they're breaking the law. They shouldn't have to do that.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']Ya know, another way to stop it is working with countries south of us, particularly mexico (which gets a lot of immigrants, who intend to stay there, anyway), in improving their economy. Instead of doing what benefits us most economically, doing what benefits them would go towards creating better conditions and less reason to come to the u.s., especially illegally.[/QUOTE]

The US has been propping up Mexico for years. It's their own fault (and corruption) that's kept things from improving.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']They'll drive without licenses anyways...........and alonzomourning has a really good point. The only reason they come here illegally is because their countries of origin suck.[/QUOTE]

85% of the people living in the world live in countries that "suck" compaired to the US, if they were all to come here the US would "suck" greatly also.

People commit crimes all the time, it doesn't mean we should legalize arson, vandalism, burglary and murder.


Encourage them and all you do is create an incentive for another wave to follow right on their heals.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']85% of the people living in the world live in countries that "suck" compaired to the US, if they were all to come here the US would "suck" greatly also.

People commit crimes all the time, it doesn't mean we should legalize arson, vandalism, burglary and murder.


Encourage them and all you do is create an incentive for another wave to follow right on their heals.[/QUOTE]

LOL yes - only good white christians have a moral code and know how to obey the law. The others are scum!

Thinking like this led to the temperance movement of the early 1900s, and we all know how well that went...
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Ya know, another way to stop it is working with countries south of us, particularly mexico (which gets a lot of immigrants, who intend to stay there, anyway), in improving their economy. Instead of doing what benefits us most economically, doing what benefits them would go towards creating better conditions and less reason to come to the u.s., especially illegally.[/QUOTE]

I agree somewhat, although that doesn't excuse law-breaking or mean that we should just let everyone in. Northern Mexico actually has had a great improvement in its economy in the past few years through NAFTA. CAFTA is another step in this direction. If we can get free and fair trade agreements in place, that would be a step in the right direction.
 
the problem with trying to make Mexico's economy stronger is that it will not stop the flow of illegal immigration. Hell my father had two seperate crews when he worked for one company (one from Mexico and one from Honduras) that while they became legal, all were illegal initially

Mexico may be the cause of a lot of the immigration problems, but that does not mean that when their economy gets stronger that immigration will stop coming.
 
Mexicos economy has been improving, but there is also a widening gap between rich and poor in that country, and when that happens immigration won't really be affected.

Also, if the situation improves that doesn't mean people won't want to come here, but it would effect how much they would go through to get here.
 
[quote name='camoor']LOL yes - only good white christians have a moral code and know how to obey the law. The others are scum!

Thinking like this led to the temperance movement of the early 1900s, and we all know how well that went...[/QUOTE]

What in the hell are you even talking about?

How in the world to you twist a post about the economic results of allowing anyone who wants to enter the country into some sort of white power sentiment? People will continue to commit crimes, that doesn't mean you should encourage them.
 
[quote name='David85']They get "special" ones and i can't even get a regular one. Asshole fucking dumbass cult country.[/QUOTE]

I can't imagine why, unless you are such a bad driver you can't pass a driving test. If that's the case, they wouldn't get the special ones either.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']What in the hell are you even talking about?

How in the world to you twist a post about the economic results of allowing anyone who wants to enter the country into some sort of white power sentiment? People will continue to commit crimes, that doesn't mean you should encourage them.[/QUOTE]

My ancestors came to this country on a bunch of boats and generated more wealth for this country then existed before they came. It always works like that.

Although there are always a few conservative America-firsters who ignore history and common sense out of a blind fear or prejudice against 'dem dam furriners'
 
[quote name='camoor']My ancestors came to this country on a bunch of boats and generated more wealth for this country then existed before they came. It always works like that.

Although there are always a few conservative America-firsters who ignore history and common sense out of a blind fear or prejudice against 'dem dam furriners'[/QUOTE]

Over time that happens, keep in mind what happened to many of the Irish who came over and settled in New York during the Potatoe famine. They couldn't get and when they could because wages were so low due to a labor glut they didn't make much.

It's not a question of letting people in, it's making sure you limit the number that come in at once, otherwise bad things tend to happen as the market copes with a large quantity of unskilled labor.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Over time that happens, keep in mind what happened to many of the Irish who came over and settled in New York during the Potatoe famine. They couldn't get and when they could because wages were so low due to a labor glut they didn't make much.

It's not a question of letting people in, it's making sure you limit the number that come in at once, otherwise bad things tend to happen as the market copes with a large quantity of unskilled labor.[/QUOTE]

The market adjusts, it's the beauty of capitalism.

If you really want the government to tightly control immigration and use other measures to "protect" national businesses, I suggest moving to one of the many socialist European countries.
 
[quote name='camoor']The market adjusts, it's the beauty of capitalism.

If you really want the government to tightly control immigration and use other measures to "protect" national businesses, I suggest moving to one of the many socialist European countries.[/QUOTE]

The market adjusts, that's a nice happy face to put on it. I'll remember that the next time I hear about the triangle shirt factory.:D

And most developed countries control immigration, but then I suppose you could claim most of the devloped countries are socialist as well.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']The market adjusts, that's a nice happy face to put on it. I'll remember that the next time I hear about the triangle shirt factory.:D

And most developed countries control immigration, but then I suppose you could claim most of the devloped countries are socialist as well.[/QUOTE]

America has never been a country that plays follow the leader.

If you're arguing that people should be paid a fair wage, and building standards should be kept up to city codes, I agree. It doesn't mean you drastically cut down on immigration.
 
[quote name='camoor']America has never been a country that plays follow the leader.

If you're arguing that people should be paid a fair wage, and building standards should be kept up to city codes, I agree. It doesn't mean you drastically cut down on immigration.[/QUOTE]

Oh America has played follow the leader many a time, but only when we were dragged kicking and screaming, or at least that's my simplistic interpretation of WW1 and 2.

In a capitalistic society a "fair" wage cannot exist so long as a steady influx of unskilled labor is constantly pouring in at a rate greater than the demand. Personally I wouldn't mind an increase in legal immigration but the rate of illegal immigration needs to be cut first.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Oh America has played follow the leader many a time, but only when we were dragged kicking and screaming, or at least that's my simplistic interpretation of WW1 and 2.

In a capitalistic society a "fair" wage cannot exist so long as a steady influx of unskilled labor is constantly pouring in at a rate greater than the demand. Personally I wouldn't mind an increase in legal immigration but the rate of illegal immigration needs to be cut first.[/QUOTE]

Well yeah they need to legalize way more immigration.

But they need to legalize marijuana, lower the drinking age (or raise the fighting age) and kick creationism out of classrooms too.

It's a world of compromises.

Fair wages will only exist when people demand it, and shop like it. Unfortunately it's way more convienient to pick up that $20 pair of dockers hand-sewn by a poorly paid Honduran child.
 
[quote name='camoor']Well yeah they need to legalize way more immigration.

But they need to legalize marijuana, lower the drinking age (or raise the fighting age) and kick creationism out of classrooms too.

It's a world of compromises.

Fair wages will only exist when people demand it, and shop like it. Unfortunately it's way more convienient to pick up that $20 pair of dockers hand-sewn by a poorly paid Honduran child.[/QUOTE]

Yes there are plenty of things that need to happen, although I'm not entirely sure lowering the drinking age is one of them.

Fair wages can exist when people demand it or if the labor supply is to some level regulated. When you create a large glut in unskilled labor messy things tend to happen and I doubt a fair wage will ever come about or be enforced so long as inexpensive labor is available in much greater levels than the demand for it.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Yes there are plenty of things that need to happen, although I'm not entirely sure lowering the drinking age is one of them.

Fair wages can exist when people demand it or if the labor supply is to some level regulated. When you create a large glut in unskilled labor messy things tend to happen and I doubt a fair wage will ever come about or be enforced so long as inexpensive labor is available in much greater levels than the demand for it.[/QUOTE]

An 18 year-old can fight for his country, can die for his country, but cannot toast his country.

Most teenagers drink, but have to hide it so they end up doing things like drinking in remote locations and then drunk driving - or drinking away from supervision and then getting alcohol poisoning.

However the tee-tottlers and hysterical soccer moms will never let the drinking age come down from 21, even though that age was set in a much more conservative era.

As for the labor, perhaps you are correct but the short-sightedness of the consumer should not be taken out on an immigrant looking to find a new beginning in America. If someone wants to come to America and work hard, then America should allow it. We can do a better job of mixing it up (filtering in the most skilled) and keep out terrorists/undesirables, but immigration controls need to be modified to suit the real world.
 
Does anyone even care about the drinking age once they reach it? I think it should be lowered to 18 or 19, to bring it in line with the rest of the world, but it's not that big a deal.
 
[quote name='camoor']An 18 year-old can fight for his country, can die for his country, but cannot toast his country.

Most teenagers drink, but have to hide it so they end up doing things like drinking in remote locations and then drunk driving - or drinking away from supervision and then getting alcohol poisoning.

However the tee-tottlers and hysterical soccer moms will never let the drinking age come down from 21, even though that age was set in a much more conservative era.

As for the labor, perhaps you are correct but the short-sightedness of the consumer should not be taken out on an immigrant looking to find a new beginning in America. If someone wants to come to America and work hard, then America should allow it. We can do a better job of mixing it up (filtering in the most skilled) and keep out terrorists/undesirables, but immigration controls need to be modified to suit the real world.[/QUOTE]

some Republican senator or representative from Wisconsin is trying to lower the drinking age for those in the military (I saw it on CNN the other day)
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Does anyone even care about the drinking age once they reach it? I think it should be lowered to 18 or 19, to bring it in line with the rest of the world, but it's not that big a deal.[/QUOTE]

I do. But then again, I care every time I see that a bunch of teens died while driving back from a party in the backwoods where there was no supervision and a bunch of Natty Lite.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']some Republican senator or representative from Wisconsin is trying to lower the drinking age for those in the military (I saw it on CNN the other day)[/QUOTE]

Sweet. Special expanded rights for military personnel, just like in "Starship Troopers"

Don't you love it when the govenment makes such a narrow interpretation of a popular arguement.
 
[quote name='camoor']An 18 year-old can fight for his country, can die for his country, but cannot toast his country.

Most teenagers drink, but have to hide it so they end up doing things like drinking in remote locations and then drunk driving - or drinking away from supervision and then getting alcohol poisoning.

However the tee-tottlers and hysterical soccer moms will never let the drinking age come down from 21, even though that age was set in a much more conservative era.

As for the labor, perhaps you are correct but the short-sightedness of the consumer should not be taken out on an immigrant looking to find a new beginning in America. If someone wants to come to America and work hard, then America should allow it. We can do a better job of mixing it up (filtering in the most skilled) and keep out terrorists/undesirables, but immigration controls need to be modified to suit the real world.[/QUOTE]

Alcohol can be a very dangerious drug, people under 21 will drunk but making it illegal tends to limit how they drink.

Working hard and being skilled are not the same thing, I don't have a problem with letting in nearly everyone with a college degree or desirable trade skill, but the problem has always been the mass influx of unskilled illegals.
 
[quote name='camoor']An 18 year-old can fight for his country, can die for his country, but cannot toast his country.

Most teenagers drink, but have to hide it so they end up doing things like drinking in remote locations and then drunk driving - or drinking away from supervision and then getting alcohol poisoning.

However the tee-tottlers and hysterical soccer moms will never let the drinking age come down from 21, even though that age was set in a much more conservative era.
[/QUOTE]

Doing stupid shit like only goes to show how they aren't mature enough to be allowed to drink. If they are dumb enough to go to a remote area and consume such a large amount of alcohol that its fatal, then I think its more than ok. Its natural selection at work.

As for this non sense about giving illegals licenses...
"Hello sir, how may I help you"
"No hablo ingles..."
"Hola Senor, como estas?"
*I'm here for the illegal immigrant license*
*Oh, I see. I'll be with you in a second* "Hi, police, we have another boarder jumper"

but no... they'll waste man hours and money training them and allow them to drive leagally while their very presence here is illegal.

You want them to have licenses so really citizen's can be safe? How about you just boot them the fuck back over the boarder?

Lets run over the wording here... ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. Illegal means against the law. They immigrated illegal. They are here-say it with me- AGAINST THE LAW. I'm not being a bigot, I'm not being racist. Against the law is against the fucking law. Why should we cater to them just because they're more persistant?

As for the tax returns for illegals... They have no right to anything. Legally, they shouldn't even have gotten hired. Not only should they be in deep shit, but so should the people that hired them.
 
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