Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Gen. Discussion & Info

oh man...my jaw dropped at the announcement of co-op (more surprising than wifi since that was previously announced)

now if there can be more than one adventure file (single and coop...?)
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Alright, now I'm never going to be able to take Fox seriously.

"Steamroller! Steamroller!"
"Hey, no way, eh!?"
"Steamroller!"
"Ow! No way, take off, eh!?"
"Steamroller! Steamroller!"[/quote]
Aye, that's the one. Sadly, my wife has never seen this brilliant piece of work. I must enlighten her!

Do you have the McKenzie Brothers album? It's great. AND Geddy Lee's on it!
 
[quote name='option.iv']I don't doubt the usefulness of catching items, for it could help against characters like Peach and Link/Y.Link. But never have I heard of money matches involving items...[/quote]i'm SURE it doesn't happen. I was just being hypothetical. I'm moderate-decent but not that good anyway. Item-Catching is about the only advanced skill I have. I play for fun, not money but only with friends and kids around campus where I unfortunately am top dog.
 
[quote name='elwood731']I think that was their philosophy with Melee. There was no reason for a sequel too soon unless they could really offer something new and different, which this game seems to. Nintendo is the worst offender of milking franchises, I'm sure they churn out a Smash Bros. every year if they thought they could without killing it off.[/QUOTE]

I think the worst offender of milking has to be EA (The Sims or Madden anyone?). At least in most of Nintendo's franchises (Mario Party aside) there is something new, different, or revolutionary involved with each iteration and that seems to be the case here.

This game looks so epic. The more options they provide to play with friends, the better!
 
[quote name='BlueLobstah']I At least in most of Nintendo's franchises (Mario Party aside) there is something new, different, or revolutionary involved with each iteration and that seems to be the case here.
[/quote]
[quote name='New Super Mario Bros']Hi
[/quote]
U C WUT I DID THAR?
 
[quote name='Doomed']U C WUT I DID THAR?[/QUOTE]

Umm... Wasnt NSMB the first 2D Mario game in over a decade? That'shardly milking the cow, in fact the last Mario game was for the Gameboy, no Advanced or Color... Gameboy.

Hell the Gameboy game wasnt even a Super Gameboy enhanced game.
 
It wasn't new, different, or revolutionary. In any way. Maybe if it used hand drawn sprites. Or had 50 worlds. Or online play. Or a level editor. Or if it wasn't the same damn game as SMB only way easier with new [crappy] powerups, 3D models, and a world map.
 
[quote name='BlueLobstah']I think the worst offender of milking has to be EA (The Sims or Madden anyone?).[/QUOTE] Capcom. But I don't care, the games are great.
 
[quote name='Doomed']It wasn't new, different, or revolutionary. In any way. Maybe if it used hand drawn sprites. Or had 50 worlds. Or online play. Or a level editor. Or if it wasn't the same damn game as SMB only way easier with new [crappy] powerups, 3D models, and a world map.[/QUOTE]

Well since you cited hand drawn sprites. It did use 3D rendered characters in a 2D world, I dont know why you discount that, as it gave the game an interesting visual style. It also had wireless play.

Revolutionary? No, but then again they did label it New Super Mario Bros rather than call it Super Mario 5 or 8 or whatever.

So again, hardly milking the cow.
 
Mario as a franchise is pretty milked. That's not entirely a false statement. Mario got shunted around in more games than .. well I can't think of any one. I think Mario Kart would be a better example, or Zelda. People love to cite Zelda as franchise milking. How about Metroid Prime. I always hear about how 'unoriginal' MP2/MP3 are compared to the original.

Smash 3 is looking like a LOT. (I'll repeat that because it's important) A LOT of fanservice but it's hardly 'milked' yet. If they put out Smash 4 on the Wii (which can't have too long of a life) then I'll listen to "Smash is being milked" arguments.
 
[quote name='Strell']Mario as a character has been milked.

As a pure platforming series, I don't think so.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I feel the same way. So what if one or two games are fairly similar to each other. As long as they continue to be fun, and provide enough contrasting content to be enjoyable, who cares? I brought up the Mario Party series in jest, but that is truly a definition of being milked. A new Mario Party title nearly every year since 1998? That's milking. As was mentioned before, New Super Mario Bros. was the first 2D Mario platforming game in over a decade, not quite what I would consider milking.

As far as Smash Bros. being milked? Hardly. Nintendo probably could pump out a new Smash Bros. every other year and not have to be concerned about sales. But thankfully, it appears that much time and effort is going in to making Brawl be interesting enough to justify a new iteration.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']i'm SURE it doesn't happen. I was just being hypothetical. I'm moderate-decent but not that good anyway. Item-Catching is about the only advanced skill I have. I play for fun, not money but only with friends and kids around campus where I unfortunately am top dog.[/QUOTE]
Oh, sorry, misinterpreted. I don't money match either, but I can see how people who money match melee games would rather have items off. It's that random factor of course. I'm not much of a betting man myself, so I too would rather get rid of that randomness as much as possible.

[quote name='Wolfkin']Smash 3 is looking like a LOT. (I'll repeat that because it's important) A LOT of fanservice but it's hardly 'milked' yet. If they put out Smash 4 on the Wii (which can't have too long of a life) then I'll listen to "Smash is being milked" arguments.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, if Brawl is a bunch of fanservice, I'd unfortunately have to support it. I mean, I'm definitely okay with fanservice. As long as it's "tasteful" in some sense (this can vary from person to person). I would think it to be in best interest for both Nintendo and the consumers if they tried to appeal to what the consumer (majority) wants. They'll end up selling more and more people would be satisfied. But if it's something like increasing Peach's breasts to triple D cups, that would probably only please lilboo and his army of horny Peach fanboys.
 
[quote name='option.iv']Hmm, if Brawl is a bunch of fanservice, I'd unfortunately have to support it. I mean, I'm definitely okay with fanservice. As long as it's "tasteful" in some sense (this can vary from person to person). I would think it to be in best interest for both Nintendo and the consumers if they tried to appeal to what the consumer (majority) wants. They'll end up selling more and more people would be satisfied. But if it's something like increasing Peach's breasts to triple D cups, that would probably only please lilboo and his army of horny Peach fanboys.[/QUOTE]


Fan-service is typically described as something put in to make fans of the series have a nerdgasm. Having the Snake convos put in = fanservice. Pretty much all the Assist Trophies = fanservice. Hell, the whole fucking game = fanservice.
 
[quote name='option.iv']Hmm, if Brawl is a bunch of fanservice, I'd unfortunately have to support it.[/quote]technically as SMMM said the whole game is fanservice. Quite frankly aside from the constant barrage of assist trophies I don't really care. As long as the game is as good as Melee (which it will clearly be better than) I'm down. Metroid isn't going anywhere so even though I don't have a Wii yet looks like two games I'll be getting Day1 are going to be Manhunt and Brawl, and Manhunt is just a politics thing.
 
hey here's a new topic for the weekend is anyone else having problems with the RSS feed? I have a SBB Live Bookmark in my Firefox and it's no longer loading. I don' tknow if it's just me or if it's a system wide thing?
 
Its been like that for the past couple days. I even tried re-subscribing and it was still not working. Don't know what the problem is.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']Manhunt is just a politics thing.[/quote]Glad to see Rockstar's publicity stunt will sell at least one extra copy.

I've had no interest in Smash Bros. everywhere, but the more crap they pile into this game the more drawn to it I am. The Co-Op single player mode sounds great. I think this will definitely be on my radar if I get some extra cash for Christmas.
 
:rofl: at Peach with tig ol' bitties!!

They would never do that. It'd be stupid. I honestly don't believe Peach is sex symbol in the gaming world. Seriously. There's many many other characters such as Lara Croft to be cliche, whom are the sexual appeal characters.

Peach is just awesome, regardless of titties.
 
Hmm, sorry about that. I seem to have contradicted myself since there possibly can't be tasteful fanservice of any kind. I must've mixed fanservice with some other concept.

Oh, and thanks for the RSS feed heads up. I didn't even recognize them having one. Maybe when it's up and running (if it does), I'll try subscribing to it.

[quote name='Wolfkin']technically as SMMM said the whole game is fanservice. Quite frankly aside from the constant barrage of assist trophies I don't really care. As long as the game is as good as Melee (which it will clearly be better than) I'm down. Metroid isn't going anywhere so even though I don't have a Wii yet looks like two games I'll be getting Day1 are going to be Manhunt and Brawl, and Manhunt is just a politics thing.[/QUOTE]

I too do not own a Wii yet. And I too am pretty much looking out for Brawl. One more thing. Is this the only projected Wii game to not be solely based on the Wii Gimmick, rather Wiimote controls? Personally I don't care for all that Wiimote business which could explain why I'm holding off on the Wii until Brawl comes out. Now I'd like to see how much Brawl will boost Wii system sales, and if a hefty percentage of those people are of the Wiimote indifferent.
 
[quote name='daroga']Glad to see Rockstar's publicity stunt will sell at least one extra copy.[/quote]Well see I guess I need to explain. I'm not buying it because of the stunting they've pulled on it. I'm buying it because I'm annoyed at the Wii selection not including more M-Rated games. I'd made that decision before the "AO" contraversy.
[quote name='option.iv']I too do not own a Wii yet. And I too am pretty much looking out for Brawl. One more thing. Is this the only projected Wii game to not be solely based on the Wii Gimmick, rather Wiimote controls?[/quote]Good question. Tough call. Since I still don't have my Wii (lacking in funds) I've slowed my following of the titles until now I don't even bother remembering them unless they're AAA. I really can't think of any others sides Smash.
 
I hope they keep peach as a powerhouse character. My favorite thing about her was the balance between speed and power, and that she appeared like she would be a weak character, and then 10 seconds into the match, my opponent is at 50% damage from throws and D-Smashes!

It's also extra humiliating for people who think they're awesome but don't actually know the game when they lose to peach, who they avoid since she's pink. (I usually play her in green though)
 
[quote name='option.iv']I too do not own a Wii yet. And I too am pretty much looking out for Brawl. One more thing. Is this the only projected Wii game to not be solely based on the Wii Gimmick, rather Wiimote controls? Personally I don't care for all that Wiimote business which could explain why I'm holding off on the Wii until Brawl comes out. Now I'd like to see how much Brawl will boost Wii system sales, and if a hefty percentage of those people are of the Wiimote indifferent.[/QUOTE]

Depends on how much motion controlls are required for it to be a gimmick. Mario Galaxy uses motion just for a spin attack and the pointer for collectings stars. His regular motion is controlled with the analog stick. Super Paper Mario only injected motion controlls into the special items and attack area. The bare controlls are old-fashioned D-pad with A and B (thusly renamed 1 and 2).

Also, I dont know if Brawl will be able to measurably boost console sales. If Nintendo is still selling out on a weekly basis, then there would be no reason to solely attribute that weeks sell-out to Brawl.
 
[quote name='foltzie']Also, I dont know if Brawl will be able to measurably boost console sales. If Nintendo is still selling out on a weekly basis, then there would be no reason to solely attribute that weeks sell-out to Brawl.[/quote]I think Smash is one of the best fighting games of all time. I'm probably alone in that opinion but I don't care. That being said I doubt it has the public appeal to put any bump in system sales. In that sense it's no Halo.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']I think Smash is one of the best fighting games of all time. I'm probably alone in that opinion but I don't care. That being said I doubt it has the public appeal to put any bump in system sales. In that sense it's no Halo.[/quote]

It really is one of the best fighting games of all time. The thing that hurts it the most from claiming that title is it's not in any arcades.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']I think Smash is one of the best fighting games of all time. I'm probably alone in that opinion but I don't care. That being said I doubt it has the public appeal to put any bump in system sales. In that sense it's no Halo.[/quote]

You are not alone in that sentiment.
 
[quote name='Magehart']It really is one of the best fighting games of all time. The thing that hurts it the most from claiming that title is it's not in any arcades.[/quote]

The thing that many "hardcore" (I hate using that term) fighting fans would say is that Melee was unbalanced. And I would agree with them in that regard. Some characters were obviously far better than others. It would be on this basis alone that some would say it doesn't deserve being "one of the best."

As for myself, I would agree with you guys; it is one of the best fighting games. No other fighting game I know of can gather so many people so quickly.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']I think Smash is one of the best fighting games of all time. I'm probably alone in that opinion but I don't care. That being said I doubt it has the public appeal to put any bump in system sales. In that sense it's no Halo.[/QUOTE]

You most certainly aren't alone.

Before I got addicted to Melee, I very rarely played fighting games. The thing that always left a bitter taste in my mouth was the control scheme, I never did really like having to learn a pattern of buttons to perform a move. Smash Bros. simplistic controls however really, drew me in, as fighting no longer involved me "button mashing". Sure, button mashing is still possible in Melee, but it's a whole lot easier to figure out the sets of move when a combination of buttons is required rather than a sequence. So I have the same feelings with Melee compared to other fighting games.

Will it push consoles? I dunno. No doubt Brawl will sell millions of copies, but it just doesn't "feel" like a console pusher to me. Anyone interested in Brawl will more than likely already own a console, and it seems like Mario Galaxy will be able to push more consoles this Christmas. I could certainly be wrong, but that's just the way it looks to me...
 
[quote name='Rig']The thing that many "hardcore" (I hate using that term) fighting fans would say is that Melee was unbalanced. And I would agree with them in that regard. Some characters were obviously far better than others. It would be on this basis alone that some would say it doesn't deserve being "one of the best."

As for myself, I would agree with you guys; it is one of the best fighting games. No other fighting game I know of can gather so many people so quickly.[/QUOTE]
I hear a lot of complaints about tiers in the Smash community. But it's not just smash that has tiers. Even one of the most balanced fighting games, Guilty Gear (at least in my opinion) has tiers. Tiers or character rankings are always going to be present, being based on tournament results (i.e. which character wins most matches). The only way for such things to not exist would be a) no recorded tournaments of any kind or b)only one character to choose from/all characters are exactly the same or c) every single character wins and loses an equal amount (very unlikely).

As long as there are noticeable differences in characters, I don't think someone will ever find a truly "balanced" game.

[quote name='BlueLobstah']You most certainly aren't alone.

Before I got addicted to Melee, I very rarely played fighting games. The thing that always left a bitter taste in my mouth was the control scheme, I never did really like having to learn a pattern of buttons to perform a move. Smash Bros. simplistic controls however really, drew me in, as fighting no longer involved me "button mashing". Sure, button mashing is still possible in Melee, but it's a whole lot easier to figure out the sets of move when a combination of buttons is required rather than a sequence. So I have the same feelings with Melee compared to other fighting games.

Will it push consoles? I dunno. No doubt Brawl will sell millions of copies, but it just doesn't "feel" like a console pusher to me. Anyone interested in Brawl will more than likely already own a console, and it seems like Mario Galaxy will be able to push more consoles this Christmas. I could certainly be wrong, but that's just the way it looks to me...[/QUOTE]
That's what I find interesting about Smash. The simplicity of the controls was what got me hooked on the series. Almost anyone could pick up the control and they could be playing in no time, instead of asking "How do you do that hadouken move?!". I'd like to think the general trend of games, especially fighting games to be more popular with simpler controls/physics. However along with more simplicity, it seems more and more people like to regard it as a "party" game, or a game based more on luck than skill. Personally, I think Smash hits that sweetspot between simplicity and in-depth gameplay. I'm sure many can agree that Smash is much easier to get into than the tried-and-true 2d fighters which require several button combinations to execute special moves.

We'll just have to wait and see if Smash has generated enough of a fan base to greatly move system sales.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']I think Smash is one of the best fighting games of all time. I'm probably alone in that opinion but I don't care. That being said I doubt it has the public appeal to put any bump in system sales. In that sense it's no Halo.[/QUOTE]
Well, Melee was the best selling GameCube game. It won't move consoles the same way that Wii Sports does, but I think a lot of the more longtime gamers have been waiting on this one and Galaxy before they picked up a Wii. It will just be one more feather in Nintendo's cap. But no, I don't think it will quite be Halo or Goldeneye.
 
[quote name='elwood731']Well, Melee was the best selling GameCube game. It won't move consoles the same way that Wii Sports does, but I think a lot of the more longtime gamers have been waiting on this one and Galaxy before they picked up a Wii. It will just be one more feather in Nintendo's cap. But no, I don't think it will quite be Halo or Goldeneye.[/QUOTE]
That's a concern of mine. I mean the Wii is seen as a system that tries to utilize Wiimote controls in most of its games. And Brawl is going to come out as a game which "takes a step back" and recommends the Gamecube layout. I'm wondering if it will either boost sales by appealing to both Wiimote and gamepad players, or just ultimately contradict their whole "anyone can play" philosophy with this title.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']I think Smash is one of the best fighting games of all time. I'm probably alone in that opinion but I don't care. That being said I doubt it has the public appeal to put any bump in system sales. In that sense it's no Halo.[/QUOTE]

It cant possibly bump sales if sales are already maxed out. So for now it will have to be open to speculation as to wether or not it could be a system mover. Unless by some freak occurance Nintendo stops selling Wii's like hotcakes the week after Thanksgiving (which is the week before Brawl comes out).
 
[quote name='option.iv']That's a concern of mine. I mean the Wii is seen as a system that tries to utilize Wiimote controls in most of its games. And Brawl is going to come out as a game which "takes a step back" and recommends the Gamecube layout. I'm wondering if it will either boost sales by appealing to both Wiimote and gamepad players, or just ultimately contradict their whole "anyone can play" philosophy with this title.[/quote]
While the Gamecube pad may be recommended, the included Wiimote turned sideways NES style control scheme is a way that casual/non gamers can play Brawl.
While the Wiimote turned sideways may not be the best way to play Brawl, the fact that they include every possible control scheme shows that they want everyone to be able to play.
 
Zero Suit Samus special moves.

I wonder if the Plasma Whip can be moved around like Sheik's chain.

Or maybe not, because both of that and the Up+B can latch on to ledges,
 
3AM to 9AM and no comment on ZSS? Did everyone forget it's Monday? Again as with Diddy (Kong not P) they refused to show us all three specials. On the plus side it looks like Samus gets a stun like Mewtwo. I'm down with that.

[quote name='foltzie']It cant possibly bump sales if sales are already maxed out. [/quote]Well yes but even if they weren't maxed out.. I don't think it could move systems like Mario Kart (if it's good; please let it be good) or Galaxy or Zelda would.[quote name='option.iv']And Brawl is going to come out as a game which "takes a step back" and recommends the Gamecube layout.[/quote]Now what I would like which would be interesting but will never happen. Some game to come out and require classic controls. For instance a new RPG. Give it the bump in graphics but then it doesn't have motion and uses the classic/cube controller. That would work with Brawl too but we already know that's not going to happen.
 
[quote name='Wolfkin']
Well yes but even if they weren't maxed out.. I don't think it could move systems like Mario Kart (if it's good; please let it be good) or Galaxy or Zelda would.[/QUOTE]

In Japan, I'm pretty sure Melee was the best selling GC game with a few million. Zelda - for whatever reason - continues to fall in popularity over tehre.

Galaxy appears to have some interest (I think there's 750K preorders or something over there), and Kart sells well generally, but I'm thinking Brawl has the best shot at selling stuff over in Japan. It's potentially up there with Wii Play/Sports.

I guess we'll find out.
 
[quote name='elwood731']Well, Melee was the best selling GameCube game. It won't move consoles the same way that Wii Sports does, but I think a lot of the more longtime gamers have been waiting on this one and Galaxy before they picked up a Wii. It will just be one more feather in Nintendo's cap. But no, I don't think it will quite be Halo or Goldeneye.[/quote]

Also don't forget that Melee is still on the GameFAQ's top 50 list. People are still playing that game and playing it a lot. I can't imagine that interest won't transfer to the Wii.

But as stated, Nintendo won't produce enough Wiis to accurately measure Brawl's initial impact.
 
While Smash is a good "fighting" game, I have to disagree and say that its to shallow and floaty to become a serious hardcore fighting game that they would play at an event like evo or the like. Its great to most of us, but im just saying there are some reasons why it will never be in serious fighting game tournaments.

That said I have to say Nintendo has done an excellent job marketing this game. The daily updates keep people really interested in this game.
 
I thought Smash was played at tourneys and considered serious.

The bigger ones tend to be games that have been around a lot longer, such as Street Fighter and its varients, which pretty much use the exact same mechanics over and over, which allows people to practice it for years. Smash evolves little by little with each release. Sakurai's comments about balancing and speed adjustments make me think this one will play somewhat differently than Melee, which in and of itself was a huge step over the N64 version.

I dunno. I never go to tourneys. I just know that the better players at Smash pull off moves that are astounding. The game has a lot of depth to those willing to exploit it and practice.
 
I will likely buy a Wii for Smash Bros.

However, I think Smash Bros. is more of a party game then a fighting game. There is too many randomness and chaos for me to consider it as a fighting game.
 
[quote name='ananag112']There is too many randomness and chaos for me to consider it as a fighting game.[/QUOTE]

Which is why you turn those off if you want a "pure" fighting game.
 
[quote name='maigoyume']love the plasma whip, now just announce ganondorf with his sword and i'm set :)[/quote]

I love Ganon in all his massive fury so a sword might detract from his epic awesome.
 
[quote name='InuFaye']While Smash is a good "fighting" game, I have to disagree and say that its to shallow and floaty to become a serious hardcore fighting game that they would play at an event like evo or the like. Its great to most of us, but im just saying there are some reasons why it will never be in serious fighting game tournaments.

That said I have to say Nintendo has done an excellent job marketing this game. The daily updates keep people really interested in this game.[/QUOTE]
They play smash at tournies. They even held it at EVO 2k7. Here are the finals (match 4) from that tournament.

And Gannondorf w/ sword would probably be the scariest shit in the game. I mean he had long reach with his arms in melee, he would probably have longest reach in the game with the sword.
 
it would be cool if you could use the whip as your were falling off and wrap it around another player, and pull them off the ledge while pulling yourself up
 
[quote name='supershammy']You are not alone in that sentiment.[/QUOTE]

Far from it actually, as a lot of people are inclined to believe that Melee is easily one of the best fighting games to date, myself included.

There's some controversy over whether or not the game even qualifies as a fighter, but those people are idiots, to be fairly honest.
 
[quote name='Strell']... Melee, which in and of itself was a huge step over the N64 version.[/QUOTE] Lies. The only improvement to the gameplay was the speed increase. Everything else was just needless complication.


Also they transformed Ness from a god to a little bitch, which was unforgivable. :shame:
 
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