Taibbi and other "liberal" political books chat...with a new title!

dohdough

dohdough

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...and damn, I'm getting flasbacks from the Bush administration. I knew it was bad, but I didn't think it was THAT bad. It's like everything they were accusing Obama of doing is exactly the kind of crap they were doing.

It was really interesting to read his thoughts on conservatives as well. I don't know if I agree with all of it, but I think his critiques of liberals is pretty spot on...especially when he was saying that a lot of them "experience" poverty and discrimination on a purely academic level.

One thing that really stumped me in Griftopia was something called a "put option." Maybe my brain just isn't wired for this kind of stuff and all the explanations I was reading seemed to be missing something...really frustrating.
 
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Put options are fairly simple. You're buying a put as a sort of guarantee that someone will buy something at a preset price. The idea being that one of you will make a profit, either through the price of the put for the seller, or the eventual sell price for the buyer. It's a lot in hedging I think, nasum can probably explain it better.
 
[quote name='Clak']Put options are fairly simple. You're buying a put as a sort of guarantee that someone will buy something at a preset price. The idea being that one of you will make a profit, either through the price of the put for the seller, or the eventual sell price for the buyer. It's a lot in hedging I think, nasum can probably explain it better.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the guarantee part was getting me twisted. I think it was because Taibbi didn't explain it very well and made it seem like the person buying the put buys the actual stock from the other party to begin with instead of just buying the guarantee.
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure you'd already have the stock, and you're just paying someone to agree to buy it at some point if you choose to sell.
 
Put options are for selling, call options are for buying.
The super simplified version is that a "put" allows you the ability (but not the obligation) to sell x shares at y price at a given time. The price doesn't necessarily have to be the market price on that day. Now, you can't just do a put option to sell 50 shares of a stock (let's just use MSFT for this example, they were $28 yesterday but $32 like two weeks ago) well outside of it's range.
So two weeks age MSFT is $32. Had I done a put for 50 shares at $30 on 10/31/12, I'd likely get it and made more than I would on the open market. Had I done it for $36 I probably wouldn't have had any callers (people wanting to buy x shares at y price on a certain date) as the movement wasn't in that direction.

Further confusion because it's fun!
Calls and puts are "gentlemans agreements" to trade at a different price than the market. There is no obligation to buy or sell the x shares and y price. On the other hand, some people need that liquidity and some people want that asset. Calls and Puts typically aren't done in a two week spread like the above example, it's usually a couple of months and on the last Friday of the month is when the trading action happens (IIRC, I don't do these transactions).

So why do this at all?
You can at times score a bargain on a call and end up ahead on a put. Traders (fidelity, scott trade, etc...) LOVE THEM because of the extra fees involved. The advertised $8 or whatever trades are end of day values on the open market. You might hit the trade initiation at 11am when the share price is $30, but at the end of the day you'll pay the $30.89 price. Calls and Puts are usually 4-5x that amount and don't need to be executed to garner the fee.


I haven't read griftopia but from what I recall in a conversation with a pal, basically people were doing puts without owning the actual asset while doing calls to undercut the put of said asset before actually owning it. Basically trading on the promise as opposed to anything tangible.
 
[quote name='nasum']I haven't read griftopia but from what I recall in a conversation with a pal, basically people were doing puts without owning the actual asset while doing calls to undercut the put of said asset before actually owning it. Basically trading on the promise as opposed to anything tangible.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the explanation, but that was pretty much it and it was throwing me for a loop...haha. It simply didn't make any sense to me that they could sell something they didn't have to begin with.
 
Hold onto your pants, the same thing happens with concern to precious metal backed ETFs. The idea is that they own the physical assets, gold, silver, whatever. But there can be questions concerning whether they hold enough to actually back the shares, or even the actual legitimacy of the metal (if it's really pure for example). In theory it could all be a scam, you're putting a certain amount of faith into it.
 
Oh c'mon don, never heard of a ponzi scheme?!?

And that's why double gold will always be a better investment than "gold". That shit beck shills is a piece of paper claiming ownership of gold. Sound familiar? Good luck going to gold HQ and redeeming your ownership claim for 2/3rds of an ounce of gold.

Edit
Man, fuck intoxityping on an ipad
 
That's why I laugh when people talk about returning to the gold standard. Money backed by gold is basically the same thing you're talking about, paper claiming ownership of some fraction of the gold.
 
[quote name='nasum']Oh c'mon don, never heard of a ponzi scheme?!?

And that's why double gold will always be a better investment than "gold". That shit beck shills is a piece of paper claiming ownership of gold. Sound familiar? Good luck going to gold HQ and redeeming your ownership claim for 2/3rds of an ounce of gold.

Edit
Man, fuck intoxityping on an ipad[/QUOTE]
HAHA...silly me, I thought ponzi schemes were somehow illegal and didn't think a "regulated" industry like finance would be doing it en masse.:lol:
:cry:

[quote name='Clak']That's why I laugh when people talk about returning to the gold standard. Money backed by gold is basically the same thing you're talking about, paper claiming ownership of some fraction of the gold.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, even then, it's still a commodity that's prone to manipulation and fluctuating value; not intrinsic like the goldbugs like to think.
 
Taibbi's articles are really good. I agree, he is right on liberals and doesn't let them off the hook. I enjoy the non-partisans. We need more of them. I'm guessing that I've got most of his book by reading his RS articles? Value in getting the book?
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']Taibbi's articles are really good. I agree, he is right on liberals and doesn't let them off the hook. I enjoy the non-partisans. We need more of them. I'm guessing that I've got most of his book by reading his RS articles? Value in getting the book?[/QUOTE]
Spanking the Donkey and Smells Like Dead Elephants have longer versions of RS articles, while the Great Derangement and Griftopia are new material. I think the Great Derangement was a great read especially with the election next week and I'm still in the middle of Griftopia.

I don't know if I'd call him non-partisan though. He hates mostly on ivory tower and limousine liberals, but he leans pretty far left. Maybe equal opportunity is a better label?:lol:

Shock Doctrine is another good book that I haven't finished yet either. I'll probably restart at the beginning of that before I move onto Chomsky.
 
I just finished reading The Great Derangement. The Bible Study chapter made me actually laugh out loud. The part about the Rules Committee and legislation was really disappointing. It sounds worse than I expected. The media really just lets everyone down by letting all this slide.

The 9/11 Truth content was less interesting but still informative, I suppose. I can hardly believe the extents people described in the book would go to make it seem plausible.

I also grabbed Griftopia from the library, so I'll be starting on that next.
 
[quote name='ID2006']I just finished reading The Great Derangement. The Bible Study chapter made me actually laugh out loud. The part about the Rules Committee and legislation was really disappointing. It sounds worse than I expected. The media really just lets everyone down by letting all this slide.[/QUOTE]
This is what I got out of that book too. I'd recommend the other two books too. It was really illuminating to learn about the time I really started being politically conscious.

The 9/11 Truth content was less interesting but still informative, I suppose. I can hardly believe the extents people described in the book would go to make it seem plausible.

I also grabbed Griftopia from the library, so I'll be starting on that next.
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Just finished Griftopia and goddamn I need a drink. It was a good refresher because I actually forgot about a bunch of stuff.

Off to Shock Doctrine next, but I really want to read some Thomas Frank stuff. I think I might change the thread title too.
 
Just the other day, I happened across Drift by Rachel Maddow during a sale at halfpricebooks, which is uncommon. Their recent non-fiction selection is mostly terrible. I've been looking for Twilight of the Elites by Chris Hayes and either Free Will or Lying by Sam Harris for a while and turned up nothing.

Chris Hayes might just be my favorite msnbc host right now. I never thought anyone had a chance against Maddow, but UP is just SO GOOD.
 
Dohdough and all, read anything by Chris Hedges? I have to say this guy is a BEAST.

These are the 2 books I've read and these are my top book recommendations I give to people. I'd say start with Death of the Liberal Class then read Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle.

Check out these videos to get an idea of what he is like. I'd recommend the Canadian TV one to start if your unsure which to look at. The debate is great!

Here are some interviews from Chris Hedges, this one is on Empire of Illusion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHle_turjes

This is split in 2 parts. An interview on Canadian TV and debate (the way a debate should be…):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dANFfwcSGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhn77PMX9M

Here is Hedges talk on the book Death of the Liberal Class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYCvSntOI5s&feature=player_detailpage

Hollywood and the war machine (Chris Hedges, Michael Moore, Oliver Stone)
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/empire/2010/12/2010121681345363793.html

Chris Hedges: Obama is a "Poster Child for the Death of the Liberal Class"
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/20/chris_hedges_obama_is_a_poster
 
I've seen some interviews of Chris Hedges and I think he's awesome. This guy doesn't fuck around. I'm slowly going through some books that I've always been wanting to read and I think I'm going to tackle Hedges after Chomsky.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I've seen some interviews of Chris Hedges and I think he's awesome. This guy doesn't fuck around. I'm slowly going through some books that I've always been wanting to read and I think I'm going to tackle Hedges after Chomsky.[/QUOTE]

What Chomksy are you thinking of reading?
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']What Chomksy are you thinking of reading?[/QUOTE]
Just Manufacturing Consent and Hegemony or Survival for now. They're sitting on my bookshelf. I think I have a couple others on my tablet, but forget which ones. Feel free to recommend some.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Just Manufacturing Consent and Hegemony or Survival for now. They're sitting on my bookshelf. I think I have a couple others on my tablet, but forget which ones. Feel free to recommend some.[/QUOTE]

I've only read parts of Manufacturing Consent. (Shame on me, should've finished this long ago.) It's more dense than Hegemony and very focused. I would recommend Hegemony or Survival if you're unsure. It's more recent and an easier read. Let me know what you think once you've read his stuff. Enjoy!
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']Dohdough and all, read anything by Chris Hedges? I have to say this guy is a BEAST.

These are the 2 books I've read and these are my top book recommendations I give to people. I'd say start with Death of the Liberal Class then read Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle.

Check out these videos to get an idea of what he is like. I'd recommend the Canadian TV one to start if your unsure which to look at. The debate is great!

Here are some interviews from Chris Hedges, this one is on Empire of Illusion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHle_turjes

This is split in 2 parts. An interview on Canadian TV and debate (the way a debate should be…):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dANFfwcSGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhn77PMX9M

Here is Hedges talk on the book Death of the Liberal Class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYCvSntOI5s&feature=player_detailpage

Hollywood and the war machine (Chris Hedges, Michael Moore, Oliver Stone)
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/empire/2010/12/2010121681345363793.html

Chris Hedges: Obama is a "Poster Child for the Death of the Liberal Class"
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/20/chris_hedges_obama_is_a_poster[/QUOTE]

I still have a lot of his books to read, but I've enjoyed many of his articles and interviews on Truthdig and elsewhere. The only book of his I haven't liked so far is "I Don't Believe in Atheists." It had too many baseless accusations unlike most of his other material.
 
Hey dohdough. Might I recommend "Blackwater: Rise Of the World's Largest Mercenary Army" by Jeremy Scahill?
"Shock Doctrine" by Klein is good as well. I would suggest to Ms.Klein that she fire the makeup person who she uses for the latest shows. She looks severe and ugly, like the White women Conservative pundits.
Also I've been thinking I may compile enough research and do a book on Google just to stop the worship given to them from Liberals. Maybe when I find the evidence(and I'm sure I will given their motto) Liberals and foreign countries will approach letting them in with much more caution.
Also, I'm looking at reading a Japanese book on a hot button issue likely concerning Nuclear power.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Hey dohdough. Might I recommend "Blackwater: Rise Of the World's Largest Mercenary Army" by Jeremy Scahill?
"Shock Doctrine" by Klein is good as well. I would suggest to Ms.Klein that she fire the makeup person who she uses for the latest shows. She looks severe and ugly, like the White women Conservative pundits.[/quote]
Half way through Shock Doctrine. It's a good treatise on economic warfare/imperialism for the last 100 years. It makes me wish I wasn't an atheist so that I'd believe that Kissinger and Friedman would be burning in the deepest pits of hell.

Scahill is on my list too, but I can only read so fast and I have a list of 8 or so books already.:D

Also I've been thinking I may compile enough research and do a book on Google just to stop the worship given to them from Liberals. Maybe when I find the evidence(and I'm sure I will given their motto) Liberals and foreign countries will approach letting them in with much more caution.
Click to expand...
Uhhh...wut?
 
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