Tales of Vesperia (360) - $36.74 Amazon Affiliate

I would jump on it now if you want to play it any sooner than a year from now, if you're waiting on the PS3 version. There's also been no confirmation that it will even be ported here at all.

Fantastic game, and worth every penny.
 
[quote name='arcane93']Ugh, forgot about that -- very torn on this one. It doesn't come out until Fall in Japan. After that, who knows how long it will take to get translated and dubbed for release over here, especially given all of the extra voice-over they've apparently added (they voiced all of the parts that were text-only on the 360 version -- supposedly it doubles the length of the script). And when it finally does come out, it'll more than likely be at the full $59.99 price point. So is it worth waiting or not?[/QUOTE]

Since it's going to feature a load of additional content (as compared to the 360) I would wait since it will be full price. This game is a gem.

[quote name='Ryouko']I would jump on it now if you want to play it any sooner than a year from now, if you're waiting on the PS3 version. There's also been no confirmation that it will even be ported here at all.

Fantastic game, and worth every penny.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I was trying to see if it was a go for a US port. I can't find it. It might but Tales of Vesperia didn't really sell well.
 
I support this title. Excellent JRPG done right. This, Lost Odyssey and Star Ocean IV are all the very best JRPGs on the 360. Eternal Sonata is decent. Play The Last Remnant on PC if your hardcore. I have no love for Infinite Undiscovery or Blue Dragon.

I wish my PS3 JRPG collection was much larger. Valkyrie Chronicles sits alone on the shelf. Only Final Fantasy XIII and White Knight Chronicles are on my radar.
 
Hm. My copy finally came from Amazon last night, and I spent about three hours playing it. Interesting so far, but I'm really, really hating the combat controls. Does anyone else find them terribly unresponsive? For example, the game seems to decide for me when it's actually going to let me do the artes using the A button + left stick combo (erring most of the time toward not doing them) -- it's more responsive when I assign them to the right stick, but still less than perfect. I'm almost wondering if I'm doing something wrong. It seems like a game I'll enjoy overall, but if the kludgy controls raise the frustration level too much, that may change quickly.
 
[quote name='arcane93']One thing I'm curious about with this, that I haven't been able to glean from the reviews I've read . . .

One of my biggest problems with Eternal Sonata (another Bandai Namco RPG) so far (I've only been playing it for a little bit) is how fixed the view is. You can't move the camera at all -- where ever it happens to be is where it is. It's a shame, because the artwork is gorgeous and I don't feel like I really get to see it. Beyond that, it makes the game feel extremely linear. It feels like a huge throw-back after playing games like Star Ocean: The Last Hope that let you move and turn in any direction.

Is this game like that as well, or is there more freedom of camera movement? Anyone know?[/QUOTE]

Camera does indeed have movement. I loved Eternal Sonata personally but this is a far superior game.
 
[quote name='arcane93']Hm. My copy finally came from Amazon last night, and I spent about three hours playing it. Interesting so far, but I'm really, really hating the combat controls. Does anyone else find them terribly unresponsive? For example, the game seems to decide for me when it's actually going to let me do the artes using the A button + left stick combo (erring most of the time toward not doing them) -- it's more responsive when I assign them to the right stick, but still less than perfect. I'm almost wondering if I'm doing something wrong. It seems like a game I'll enjoy overall, but if the kludgy controls raise the frustration level too much, that may change quickly.[/QUOTE]

The combat takes a little getting used to. In the beginning, it'll just feel like you're mashing buttons, but once you start getting more Artes, the system starts to flesh itself out. I think the main problem is the command lag. It's sort of strange at first, but then you start to adjust.

I've never had an issue with Yuri NOT performing an Arte (assigned to the correct directional press), so I'd say that you might be pressing the wrong direction. Are you holding the direction down before and during your A button press? It doesn't have to be a precise input of A + Direction simultaneously, but rather you have to be holding down the direction while pressing the A button. So far, I've been playing on Semi-Auto for the most part... I'm not sure if that makes a difference for you or not, but it lets you worry about directional inputs while Yuri navigates the battle area to land the hits.

Also, I'm not sure how far along you are, but the lag before a move starts is deliberate, so you should pretty much always cancel your normal combo into an Arte combo... and later combo that into an Arcane Arte. The input lag encourages the use of this canceling method.
 
Is this better that IU? I personally got it for 9.99 at the BB sale and i love that game. Id be willing to get tales for 26 shipped with eca from amazon.
 
[quote name='GuardianE']The combat takes a little getting used to. In the beginning, it'll just feel like you're mashing buttons, but once you start getting more Artes, the system starts to flesh itself out. I think the main problem is the command lag. It's sort of strange at first, but then you start to adjust.[/QUOTE]

I just wish that, if the command lag is intentional, that it would be more possible to tell that it's intentional, and not just shoddy coding. Because honestly, that's what it really feels like to me, even if that's not the case. Especially since it seems to happen worse sometimes than others, and I haven't been able to find any pattern or cause to explain it.

Now granted, I've switched it to manual because I found that more bearable overall, so you might not be noticing this if you're using semi-automatic, but have you ever had an instance where you just couldn't get Yuri to even move in the direction that you wanted him to move in? I've had that happen several times now -- there's nothing in my way, I'm far from the borders of the combat arena, and yet he simply won't move. That's probably the most frustrating thing that I've encountered, especially when I have other members of my party getting destroyed because of the poor AI controlling them (wow the AI in this game sucks), and I can't for the life of me get Yuri to move in the direction he needs to go to actually help them.

I've never had an issue with Yuri NOT performing an Arte (assigned to the correct directional press), so I'd say that you might be pressing the wrong direction.
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Hm -- I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but the A + left stick combos aren't assigned directions, are they? I think that's only the right stick assigns, which I've been able to get to work better. My solution, in fact, has been to assign all of the Artes I want to use to the right stick, and just forget about the A + left stick combo altogether. That's worked for that issue, for the most part.

Also, I'm not sure how far along you are, but the lag before a move starts is deliberate, so you should pretty much always cancel your normal combo into an Arte combo... and later combo that into an Arcane Arte. The input lag encourages the use of this canceling method.
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Ugh, I don't know why anyone would intentionally put lag into game controls. It's all well and good that they want to encourage a particular style of play, but had I known, I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'll continue to muddle through it for now anyway, but I have to say that I'm enjoying the game considerably less than I probably otherwise would be because of it.

My feeling, honestly, is that I'd much rather just have old-school turn-based strategic combat in my JRPGs, thank you very much. If you're going to force me to play an action game when combat comes up, though, you'd better give me the smooth, easy controls of an action game. Making me fight with the control system to get the characters to do what I want them to do is a quick way to frustrate me into not buying any more of your games.

[quote name='s2k']Is this better that IU? I personally got it for 9.99 at the BB sale and i love that game. Id be willing to get tales for 26 shipped with eca from amazon.[/QUOTE]

Well, I got IU during the BB sale as well, and got annoyed enough with it to just stop playing it altogether after about two hours (when I reached the point in the Dragonbone Shrine where the game wanted me to backtrack all the way to where I'd been an hour earlier and then return to the shrine, and started respawning all of the exact same monsters in the exact same spots where I'd beaten them only moments before -- that was just too much), so I'm probably not the best judge on that one. I will say, though, that despite my problems with it, I'm still playing ToV and I'm about 5 hours in, for what that's worth. So I'd say it's better.

Wow. I'm really just not liking this generation of JRPGs, I guess (don't even get me started on Star Ocean: The Last Hope). A shame, it used to be my favorite genre by far.
 
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[quote name='s2k']Is this better that IU? I personally got it for 9.99 at the BB sale and i love that game. Id be willing to get tales for 26 shipped with eca from amazon.[/QUOTE]

Infinitely better than IU ;)
 
[quote name='s2k']Is this better that IU? I personally got it for 9.99 at the BB sale and i love that game. Id be willing to get tales for 26 shipped with eca from amazon.[/QUOTE]

I got IU during the BB sale, and put it on the backburner for awhile and finally started playing it last thursday. Then during the B2G1 sale at gamestop last week I picked up ToV, and haven't touched IU since lol. I'm glad I listened to some fellow CAG's that told me to buy ToV.
 
Shouldn't this thread be moved or deleted? Anyway, the amazon merchant "Cargolargo" has new/sealed copies for $25.98 shipped, which is $2 cheaper than Amazon right now. I'd still trust amazon more than them though.
 
ha.. i now see it as 27.99 + FSSS i can live losing $2 knowing the hundreds or thousands of dollars ive saved via the CAG
 
[quote name='arcane93']I just wish that, if the command lag is intentional, that it would be more possible to tell that it's intentional, and not just shoddy coding. Because honestly, that's what it really feels like to me, even if that's not the case. Especially since it seems to happen worse sometimes than others, and I haven't been able to find any pattern or cause to explain it.

Now granted, I've switched it to manual because I found that more bearable overall, so you might not be noticing this if you're using semi-automatic, but have you ever had an instance where you just couldn't get Yuri to even move in the direction that you wanted him to move in? I've had that happen several times now -- there's nothing in my way, I'm far from the borders of the combat arena, and yet he simply won't move. That's probably the most frustrating thing that I've encountered, especially when I have other members of my party getting destroyed because of the poor AI controlling them (wow the AI in this game sucks), and I can't for the life of me get Yuri to move in the direction he needs to go to actually help them.

Hm -- I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but the A + left stick combos aren't assigned directions, are they? I think that's only the right stick assigns, which I've been able to get to work better. My solution, in fact, has been to assign all of the Artes I want to use to the right stick, and just forget about the A + left stick combo altogether. That's worked for that issue, for the most part.

Ugh, I don't know why anyone would intentionally put lag into game controls. It's all well and good that they want to encourage a particular style of play, but had I known, I probably wouldn't have bought it. I'll continue to muddle through it for now anyway, but I have to say that I'm enjoying the game considerably less than I probably otherwise would be because of it. [/QUOTE]

The lag is there so you can't just mash the buttons and keep doing attacks. It gives a downside to just using moves without thinking. Once you get a Limit Gauge, you can activate it to go super powered and chain any attacks into any other attacks seamlessly for a limited time.

I've NEVER had Yuri just stand there and not do anything. I have no idea what's up with your experience, but that's simply never been the case for me. Maybe when Yuri's being attacked? When you're hit, you go into a stun state so the enemy can combo you.. it's just like when you hit an enemy and they go into a stun state. Otherwise, I've never had a problem. And the Left Stick is what I've always used to perform moves. I don't use the Right Stick at all in the game except for camera controls on the World Map.

Are you sure your controller isn't busted?

The fact that the problem gets worse at times and better at times leads me to believe that it has something to do with your actual hardware. If you were having some sort of issue with the game's control scheme, it really should be a consistent annoyance.
 
[quote name='GuardianE']The lag is there so you can't just mash the buttons and keep doing attacks. It gives a downside to just using moves without thinking. Once you get a Limit Gauge, you can activate it to go super powered and chain any attacks into any other attacks seamlessly for a limited time.[/QUOTE]

That sort-of makes sense, but again, these developers need to decide whether they want to use real-time action-based combat or strategic turn-based combat. They can't have both without introducing some serious flaws into the mechanics and flow, as is evidenced by this game. If they want to discourage button mashing, they should put real-time consequences in for it -- defense ability going down, fatigue causing more missed attacks and less damage done, etc. Hell, if the player button-mashes too hard, have him fall on the ground panting while the monsters descend upon him. Placing arbitrary lags and limits on character actions which leave the player feeling like things aren't working smoothly and consistently, though, only serves as a basis for frustration.

Of course that's all somewhat moot, as the game is what it is at this point, and none of us are developers to learn anything from it anyway. But I think it's reasonable to say that it's things like this which are, as I mentioned earlier, turning me off to this generation of these games.

I've NEVER had Yuri just stand there and not do anything. I have no idea what's up with your experience, but that's simply never been the case for me. Maybe when Yuri's being attacked? When you're hit, you go into a stun state so the enemy can combo you.. it's just like when you hit an enemy and they go into a stun state. Otherwise, I've never had a problem.
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As I said, it might be the difference between you having him on semi-automatic mode, and therefore expecting his movement to largely happen outside of your control, and my having him on manual mode, and therefore expecting to be able to move him freely. Don't know. All that I can say is that I've had the situation come up several times now where he's been away from borders, away from objects that might block him, away from enemies, and suffering from no status effects -- i.e. with no discernible reason why he couldn't move as I wanted him to -- and he just simply wouldn't go in the direction that I was pushing the stick. Generally I could get him to do other actions, like an Arte or a sword thrust into the empty air in front of him, and a few of these were what it took to snap him out of it and get him to move again. But by the time I did that, in most cases, my whole reason for wanting to move there had passed.

You want to see something really amazing? Put him in full automatic mode, and just sit back and watch. I tried this on the very first boss fight with Zagi, because I was frustrated after several tries and just wanted to get past him (the solution eventually was to switch to manual -- I won the fight with little difficulty with that, and haven't left manual mode since). With the computer in control, Yuri just kept throwing defensive postures, and hardly ever made an offensive strike. This was great on the one hand because it lowered the amount of damage Zagi could do with a single strike, but on the other hand, since the blows were still doing some damage, all it really did was make the fight drag out for a really long time with an eventual loss coming anyway. I was floored watching it. And to think, this is the same AI that's controlling all of the other characters in the party in all of the subsequent battles.

Are you sure your controller isn't busted?

The fact that the problem gets worse at times and better at times leads me to believe that it has something to do with your actual hardware. If you were having some sort of issue with the game's control scheme, it really should be a consistent annoyance.
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Considering that I was playing Ninja Gaiden II (a game which requires some pretty quick and precise controls, and which I'm sure taxes the system much harder) on it the other day without any difficulty, I don't think so. Oh, and the controller has newly charged batteries in it too, so power isn't the issue either. I'm assuming that there must be something in the game, whether it's something that I'm doing without even realizing it or something happening within the game itself (bug or otherwise), that triggers it. I just have no idea what it could be.
 
[quote name='arcane93']Of course that's all somewhat moot, as the game is what it is at this point, and none of us are developers to learn anything from it anyway. But I think it's reasonable to say that it's things like this which are, as I mentioned earlier, turning me off to this generation of these games.

As I said, it might be the difference between you having him on semi-automatic mode, and therefore expecting his movement to largely happen outside of your control, and my having him on manual mode, and therefore expecting to be able to move him freely. Don't know. All that I can say is that I've had the situation come up several times now where he's been away from borders, away from objects that might block him, away from enemies, and suffering from no status effects -- i.e. with no discernible reason why he couldn't move as I wanted him to -- and he just simply wouldn't go in the direction that I was pushing the stick. Generally I could get him to do other actions, like an Arte or a sword thrust into the empty air in front of him, and a few of these were what it took to snap him out of it and get him to move again. But by the time I did that, in most cases, my whole reason for wanting to move there had passed.

You want to see something really amazing? Put him in full automatic mode, and just sit back and watch. I tried this on the very first boss fight with Zagi, because I was frustrated after several tries and just wanted to get past him (the solution eventually was to switch to manual -- I won the fight with little difficulty with that, and haven't left manual mode since). With the computer in control, Yuri just kept throwing defensive postures, and hardly ever made an offensive strike. This was great on the one hand because it lowered the amount of damage Zagi could do with a single strike, but on the other hand, since the blows were still doing some damage, all it really did was make the fight drag out for a really long time with an eventual loss coming anyway. I was floored watching it. And to think, this is the same AI that's controlling all of the other characters in the party in all of the subsequent battles.[/QUOTE]


Implementing your suggestions into the combat system would work too, but I really don't think the current setup is broken. There's startup, move, then recovery. The premise is similar to a fighting game, or even NG2... you perform moves when they're safe to perform. Yeah, it's a stretch, but it's sort of analogous. I don't think that the character should miss more when you're mashing buttons... there's nothing more infuriating than watching your sword go through an enemy and seeing a little "Miss" come up on your screen indicating that you did no damage. That's crap. If I miss in an action RPG where I'm controlling the character, then have me miss because it's my fault, not due to some arbitrary stat. I don't think the lag is arbitrary. It's like saying that the lag after Ryu performs a Hadoken is arbitrary... I suppose you could make him instantly recover, but he just performed a special move... so he's tired or whatever.

I've found the AI to be surprisingly adept, however I've never put Yuri in Automatic Mode. Each of the other characters have a certain AI assigned to them so they act differently in battle. They also maintain the battle formations that you set before the battle pretty faithfully. In fact, you can tailor their AI in one of the subscreens to very specific scenarios. Maybe Yuri's can be changed as well.

I can only say that maybe you've found a bug with Yuri's movement. I can't really explain it any other way. ToV was never meant to be combat intensive when you'd be performing crazy dodges, which is the only reason I don't play on Manual mode. Manual mode leaves room for missed attacks in the 3D arena, whereas Semi-Auto allows you to focus simply on a 2D plane, while freeroaming with LT if you need to dodge or flee. The combat is meant to be simple, especially in the first 10 hours or so. Timing is rarely a critical factor, which is why the battle pacing is so slow.
 
[quote name='GuardianE']I can only say that maybe you've found a bug with Yuri's movement. I can't really explain it any other way. ToV was never meant to be combat intensive when you'd be performing crazy dodges, which is the only reason I don't play on Manual mode. Manual mode leaves room for missed attacks in the 3D arena, whereas Semi-Auto allows you to focus simply on a 2D plane, while freeroaming with LT if you need to dodge or flee. The combat is meant to be simple, especially in the first 10 hours or so.[/QUOTE]

You know, I wonder if you've hit on it right there -- because that's exactly what it feels like when he's "stuck" -- like he's suddenly on a 2D plane. I would expect that putting it in manual would get rid of that restriction (and it does for much of the time), but maybe (a bug?) it still gets triggered somehow at times. That would explain it.
 
[quote name='arcane93']You know, I wonder if you've hit on it right there -- because that's exactly what it feels like when he's "stuck" -- like he's suddenly on a 2D plane. I would expect that putting it in manual would get rid of that restriction (and it does for much of the time), but maybe (a bug?) it still gets triggered somehow at times. That would explain it.[/QUOTE]

Could be. This may be a stupid question, but you're not accidentally hitting the button that switches between Auto/Manual/SemiAuto, are you?

The fighting DOES seem weird at first... I think there's an adjustment period for everyone. I think what helps me to embrace it is that I don't expect to slash every time I hit the B button or A button. I'm pretty much mashing A or B (since Yuri won't attack unless he's in range, and hitting the attack button will automatically make him run towards the enemy)and canceling that attack with a different direction on the Left Stick. In a weird way, the Left Stick has become my attack button more than the actual button I'm pressing.
 
[quote name='GuardianE']Could be. This may be a stupid question, but you're not accidentally hitting the button that switches between Auto/Manual/SemiAuto, are you?[/QUOTE]

Haha, um, could be, I suppose -- I didn't even know there was a button to switch between them, I was doing it in the menus. I'll have to take a look at that tonight. That would certainly explain (at least some of) the frustration, though.
 
[quote name='arcane93']Haha, um, could be, I suppose -- I didn't even know there was a button to switch between them, I was doing it in the menus. I'll have to take a look at that tonight. That would certainly explain (at least some of) the frustration, though.[/QUOTE]

The Back button switches between them. It'll say what mode you're in briefly above your character's stats at the bottom of the screen when you press Back.
 
[quote name='GuardianE']The Back button switches between them. It'll say what mode you're in briefly above your character's stats at the bottom of the screen when you press Back.[/QUOTE]

Hm, pretty sure I wasn't pressing that, but maybe I bumped it without realizing. Now that I know what it does, I'll be more conscious of it and see if that clears up the issue. Thanks!
 
[quote name='GuardianE']I don't think that the character should miss more when you're mashing buttons... there's nothing more infuriating than watching your sword go through an enemy and seeing a little "Miss" come up on your screen indicating that you did no damage. That's crap. If I miss in an action RPG where I'm controlling the character, then have me miss because it's my fault, not due to some arbitrary stat.[/QUOTE]

Going back to this one, because I find the discussion of game mechanics interesting --

Ever done any actual sword fighting? I did some fencing back in college, and one of the big mistakes that beginners make is lunging in too hard, attacking too often, going too much on the offensive. It has the effect of causing a lot of missed attacks (because they're not taking the time or effort to aim their blows, they're just flailing forward wildly and hoping to strike) and of greatly lowering their defenses (because they tend to leave their stance wide open and their defenses down while doing this). Sometimes they'll get lucky and land a blow, but usually they'll miss (or get parried) a lot and then get defeated by a more skilled opponent. That's what I'm suggesting that button-mashing should be the equivalent of, because really, that's what a button-mashing player is doing -- throwing attacks rapidly and randomly in the hope that some of them will land, without any real strategy, skill, or idea of what they're doing.

I agree that it's frustrating to see a "MISS" on the screen when you've watched your sword go through an enemy. The graphics would have to be done properly so that it would be clear that your sword did not go through, or even touch, the enemy. Maybe the game would even need to throw up hints/warnings regarding what's going wrong, at least in the early stages, to get the player on the right track.

I don't think the lag is arbitrary. It's like saying that the lag after Ryu performs a Hadoken is arbitrary... I suppose you could make him instantly recover, but he just performed a special move... so he's tired or whatever.
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I think in some ways you and I are saying the same thing on this one -- yes, fatigue would slow the character down for a bit, and I agree that it adds realism to represent it. My problem with the way that ToV handles it, if that's what they're doing, is that the lag is the only sign of the slowdown. There's no graphic representation of the fatigue on the character, no meter or whatever showing when the character will be ready to attack again, no other sign that the lag is intentional. It's just a brief moment where you simply can't do anything. If it is intentional, and there's a reason for it, I'd much prefer that the game give me some indication of that, rather than simply appearing to stubbornly ignore my commands for a bit.
 
I understand what you're saying about stamina, but its merit in a game like this is debatable.

I feel as though the combat system in ToV is simply not that sophisticated. It's an action RPG, yes, but not an action game, per se. Its focus lies elsewhere, and the various animations, precision movements techniques, and frame advantage canceling required in a game like Ninja Gaiden/DMC would be restrictive to a person playing ToV. Simply different audiences.

Could they have improved things by changing the pacing of the fights or the input recognition? Most likely. But they could've changed a lot of things for the better, as is the case with every game out there. The action segments are fundamentally different in ToV, but not fundamentally flawed... just different for better or worse.
 
[quote name='GuardianE']I understand what you're saying about stamina, but its merit in a game like this is debatable.

I feel as though the combat system in ToV is simply not that sophisticated. It's an action RPG, yes, but not an action game, per se. Its focus lies elsewhere, and the various animations, precision movements techniques, and frame advantage canceling required in a game like Ninja Gaiden/DMC would be restrictive to a person playing ToV. Simply different audiences.[/QUOTE]

Haha, yup, hence my argument to keep the damn action out of my RPGs to begin with! ;) The turn-based combat was the one part of Lost Odyssey that I really did like (the sheer number of random encounters, on the other hand, drove me to distraction and eventually made me stop playing when I felt like I couldn't significantly advance the game with ending up in battles every ten steps). Every other RPG that I've played this generation has tried to throw an unsophisticated (some might say half-assed) action game on top of the combat. If I want to play an action game, I'll play an action game. I don't need it in my RPGs. But if you are going to force me to play an action game in my RPGs, then at least have the decency to make it handle as well as an action game.
 
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