Target to demote 8,000 workers?

chatgirl4

Banned
In an apparent effort to reduce the expense of health care and other employee benefits, a Target employee reports that he has just been informed that Target will down-grade as many as 8,000 employees from full-time to part-time. He is one of those full-time Specialists and Team Leaders who are being demoted.

The employee, who goes by "Michael," wrote an extensive missive to The Consumerist, stating that Specialist and Team Lead positions are being eliminated in all Target stores over the next several months. Those who hold those positions will be demoted to part-time status, being assigned under 32-hours per week and paid on a lesser, hourly basis. Target representatives dispute Michael's reports

Michael also claims that many of these full-timers will be expected to train the part-timers to do their core jobs, before they are demoted. Some speculate that they will be so angry about this that they will quit, and entry level employees can be hired to replace the higher paid workers.

For the Target shopper, this could mean less experienced and knowledgeable customer service. Those familiar with Circuit City's demise note that the same tactics were attempted with Circuit City employees in order to save a buck, but shoppers became frustrated by the lack of customer service and expertise and began buying elsewhere. It took less than a year for Circuit City to declare bankruptcy after that move.

"If this is true, I'm going to vote with my wallet," said one Target shopper in a comment on the Consumerist post. "If you are going to no longer treat your employees decently, I'm no longer going to patronize your company. Since I currently spend $300+ per month at Target (in order to avoid giving any business at all to Walmart), I guess that $3,600+ a year is now going to be going to CostCo."

However, Target officials beg to differ. A concerned email to Target CEO Gregg Steinhafel ([email protected]) reported the following:

"This simply isn't true. A false and malicious rumor is being spread by a misleading article in TheConsumerist.com. We have not cut pay, hours or benefits. We continue to build new stores and add new jobs although fewer than in the past. Thanks."

A Target spokesperson explained the changes this way:

"Each year we review our store operations and structure, which allows us to continually improve our guest service and productivity. We made minimal changes to our structure this year – they affect less than 5 percent of our hourly store team member base. Overall, the changes affected team members will experience include shifts in title or responsibility (for example - a sales specialist - shoes, could be retitled merchandising brand manager), and none of these team members will see a change in their current pay, the number of hours they work or their eligibility for benefits."

http://consumerist.com/2010/02/target-employee-says-8k-full-timers-willl-be-part-time.html

Didn't Circuit City do the same thing few years ago, looks like it worked out great for them....:roll:
 
So one Target employee is making claims the rest of Target rejects with nothing to back it up? Also I don't think Target is doing nearly as badly as Circuit City was. Circuit City was screwed well before they replaced all of their experienced staff with rookies.
 
While I don't know how accurate this report is, it always amazes me when companies think a smart way to save money is to fire or cut back knowledgeable employees and bring on cheap workers that do not know the product, how the store works, or how to handle the job in general.
 
[quote name='chatgirl4']In an apparent effort to reduce the expense of health care and other employee benefits, a Target employee reports that he has just been informed that Target will down-grade as many as 8,000 employees from full-time to part-time...

...Those who hold those positions will be demoted to part-time status, being assigned under 32-hours per week and paid on a lesser, hourly basis...

..Michael also claims that many of these full-timers will be expected to train the part-timers to do their core jobs, before they are demoted. Some speculate that they will be so angry about this that they will quit, and entry level employees can be hired to replace the higher paid workers.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of whether this is happening in Target or not, in general, these practices are disgusting. It's these sorts of practices that should be made illegal.

It's been said that the greatest charity you could give a man is to give him a job so he can be self-sufficient. Nowadays, he can't even be self-sufficient.

Sign. Of. The. Times.

This is the sort of crap that is going to send this world to hell in a handbasket unless people in power stop being such mindless greedy evil individuals and turn things around so most people aren't treated as meatbags.
 
Target has knowledgeable employees? Since when? Is this level of employee only available at Super Target?

I'm half serious here...
 
I 100% believe this, I was an ETL until I got let go a few months ago. They are shady as fuck with the way they are currently attempting to downsize. I'd elaborate but I don't want to lose my unemployment :cry::bomb:
 
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[quote name='Chuplayer']Regardless of whether this is happening in Target or not, in general, these practices are disgusting. It's these sorts of practices that should be made illegal.

It's been said that the greatest charity you could give a man is to give him a job so he can be self-sufficient. Nowadays, he can't even be self-sufficient.

Sign. Of. The. Times.

This is the sort of crap that is going to send this world to hell in a handbasket unless people in power stop being such mindless greedy evil individuals and turn things around so most people aren't treated as meatbags.[/QUOTE]

Damn! your pissed......do you buy your dolls at Target or something
 
Yep, 100% true. The affected employees aren't losing their current pay but they will no longer be guaranteed full time hours as they previously were. Additionally, they are downgraded to a lower pay grade which means their annual raise will cap out their maximum pay much sooner. The company is trying their hardest to run the stores with as few people as possible.
 
[quote name='Poor2More']Damn! your pissed......do you buy your dolls at Target or something[/QUOTE]

He should be. It is yet another example of how corporations will do anything to save a few dollars- Even if that means destroying the hopes and dreams of their employees in the process.

It is no longer the exception to hear this... It is commonplace now. Very sad.
 
[quote name='Poor2More']Damn! your pissed......do you buy your dolls at Target or something[/QUOTE]

No. Just another guy who hates overwhelming corporatization making life in the 21st century miserable.

Seriously, downgrading peoples' jobs so that they don't have to pay health insurance? What is that garbage? If this is the way that employment is going to go, then there's no choice but to create a "public option" health coverage plan. In most states, you either have a job and you've got health coverage, or you don't have health coverage. It's far too expensive to pay for on your own.
 
That was a half assed denial on the part of corporate.

These tactics worked SO well for Circuit City; I guess we can look forward to some exciting Target clearance threads.
 
As someone who has worked for Target for 3 years now I can't help but see these Circuit City comparisons are not as far off base as one would think. I feel like every year the company tries to put on a happy face for these cutbacks that inevitably happen but there is a darker undertone to it.

Seeing just how fast Circuit City went under really makes you realize how no matter how sound a company can appear, it can all come down quickly. The other thing Target has working against it is the credit division which is really doing nothing but dragging down the rest of the company for the last 2 years. Sure, before that it was great for a company to own its own credit card but now its just a liability.
 
I thought all employees (full and part) at Target have the option to get health insurance. Do full-time employees get a different kind of insurance?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Yep, 100% true. The affected employees aren't losing their current pay but they will no longer be guaranteed full time hours as they previously were. Additionally, they are downgraded to a lower pay grade which means their annual raise will cap out their maximum pay much sooner. The company is trying their hardest to run the stores with as few people as possible.[/QUOTE]

Very sad. I enjoy going to Target because they always have plenty of employees at the register and a decent amount of people around the store able to help, and the shelves and aisles are clean and well-stocked. If they turn into something like the Wal-Mart in my area (a ghost town for employees, very few people working the registers at peak times, dirty and disheveled), I will no longer patronize them and I bet many other Wal-Mart refugees will follow suit. From what you say, it seems like they don't even realize their core competencies in this area and that it is THE reason why people shop there over Wal-Mart. If this is true, they are fucked. Very sad. Another decent company going down the shitter thanks to clueless corporate bean counters.
 
Not to sound like a douche but:
* Knowledgeable employees at Target? You're either the one person manning their food court, you're a register monkey at the front/service, or you're one of 9 million stockers.
* Like I somewhat alluded to, there's so many unnecessary employees there already from a company standpoint. Phasing out the Team Lead makes sense.

Regardless, this is a completely shady way of reorganizing a company. You don't axe someone's position/stifle their pay/decrease their hours. You increase responsibility to justify paying someone more than what you would like to.
 
Don't worry. If you are worried that only Target will be doing such fun things then it'll make you happy to know that Macy's will be doing the same across the country to most, if not all, of the full-timers coming soon. Why? Once again, it's the easiest way for them to avoid paying benefits. Fun stuff, fun stuff.

Of course, Macy's hasn't sold games for ages so that shouldn't bother most people! Well, their electronic kiosks sort of/don't really count, save for some of them selling PSP-3000s for around $130 before they phased them out of the machine, but that's another matter. ;)
 
[quote name='Kapwanil']Don't worry. If you are worried that only Target will be doing such fun things then it'll make you happy to know that Macy's will be doing the same across the country to most, if not all, of the full-timers coming soon. Why? Once again, it's the easiest way for them to avoid paying benefits. Fun stuff, fun stuff.

Of course, Macy's hasn't sold games for ages so that shouldn't bother most people! Well, their electronic kiosks sort of/don't really count, save for some of them selling PSP-3000s for around $130 before they phased them out of the machine, but that's another matter. ;)[/QUOTE]

Macy's has sucked for years already. I am just wondering when the final nail in the coffin will be nailed in. So I am not surprised at all by this.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']I like how people who spend 300 a month at place think they own it. Health insurance for those employees cost more than that.[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with people thinking they own the place. It would seem most everyone posting here saying it sucks is in support of companies not treating their employees like shit.

What gets me is that these idiot companies don't realize that knowledgeable employees INCREASE ADD ON SALES, thus covering the extra pay they make and guess what, also building customer loyalty and customer approval because you have people there that actually know what the fuck they are doing.
 
I'll play devil's advocate.

Perhaps companies recognize that discretionary spending is going to tank in the near future.

So, that sales associate may not be able to upsell a customer.

Why should the company spend $X for an employee when they can spend $X-$Y if the customer is going to consistently spend $Z?

I know somebody will argue Target should take care of its employees. If Target goes bankrupt, how many hours will its employees be working?
 
You bring up a very good point. Assuming Target has done the research to back that up, then it would make a lot of sense. I have been out of retail for many years now, and with the current economy a lot has changed, so what I said may no longer carry as much weight as it did when I worked retail.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Very sad. I enjoy going to Target because they always have plenty of employees at the register and a decent amount of people around the store able to help, and the shelves and aisles are clean and well-stocked. If they turn into something like the Wal-Mart in my area (a ghost town for employees, very few people working the registers at peak times, dirty and disheveled), I will no longer patronize them and I bet many other Wal-Mart refugees will follow suit. From what you say, it seems like they don't even realize their core competencies in this area and that it is THE reason why people shop there over Wal-Mart. If this is true, they are fucked. Very sad. Another decent company going down the shitter thanks to clueless corporate bean counters.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the Target corporation "brand image" was something that was very important to the previous CEO and the many that came before him. The new (well its been a little over 2 years since he started so not that new) CEO Gregg Steinhaffel doesn't seem to think the brand image is comprised of anything more than a clean store.

I could also get started on the new vision for recruiting store leadership (the executive team lead position, salaried area manager) consists of 70% being college graduates with little to no experience in retail. 20% are external hires and only 10% are promoted from within up from the team lead (non-exempt area supervisors) position. What's that going to mean? As time goes by you will see less and less of the "old Target" in stores.

[quote name='davo1224']Not to sound like a douche but:
* Knowledgeable employees at Target? You're either the one person manning their food court, you're a register monkey at the front/service, or you're one of 9 million stockers.
* Like I somewhat alluded to, there's so many unnecessary employees there already from a company standpoint. Phasing out the Team Lead makes sense.

Regardless, this is a completely shady way of reorganizing a company. You don't axe someone's position/stifle their pay/decrease their hours. You increase responsibility to justify paying someone more than what you would like to.[/QUOTE]

This way of reorganizing has been Target's m.o. for some time now. It helps them to be able to say that they don't lay off their workers. They just phase out their position and move them somewhere else in the company, usually downward.


Some of you may remember always seeing a uniformed security officer at all stores, some stores still have them, most do not anymore. This was another position that was nearly completely eliminated a year ago. Once again they did the whole "no layoffs just moving to a different area thing." This also deals with the issue I was talking about the brand image. Having a uniformed guard at every store wasn't a necessary payroll expense but it sure did make people more comfortable shopping there. I can't tell you how many times I've identified myself as security to guests at my store just to have them say "well what happened to the uniformed person, I liked seeing them here." The company just doesn't care anymore, its simply trying to become the white/red version of Walmart.
 
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[quote name='basilofbkrst']I like how people who spend 300 a month at place think they own it. Health insurance for those employees cost more than that.[/QUOTE]

Hence, the reason we so badly need health care reform.
 
I'm surprised anyone is shocked by this. Wal-Mart did essentially the same thing a few years ago (granted, I know Target is generally considered to be "better" than Wal-Mart, but when it's a question of profit...they're all the same). Wal-Mart put a cap on employee wages so they wouldn't have cashiers who have worked there for 20+ years seeing annual raises push them over $20 an hour. I can't say that I blame them for this. There's no reason to pay an entry level position that much money just because the person hasn't qualified for/wanted a promotion for two decades.

HOWEVER, the 2nd half of it, cutting back hours across the board so that no one is considered full-time or is eligible for health benefits is pure crap. It's for these exact reasons that public health care is needed. Whether or not you believe it would be "substandard" or whatever, when businesses are allowed to enact these kinds of policies, anything is better than nothing. Ultimately, somebody has to be held accountable for providing cost effective health care: employers, insurance companies, or the government.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Very sad. I enjoy going to Target because they always have plenty of employees at the register and a decent amount of people around the store able to help, and the shelves and aisles are clean and well-stocked. If they turn into something like the Wal-Mart in my area (a ghost town for employees, very few people working the registers at peak times, dirty and disheveled), I will no longer patronize them and I bet many other Wal-Mart refugees will follow suit. From what you say, it seems like they don't even realize their core competencies in this area and that it is THE reason why people shop there over Wal-Mart. If this is true, they are fucked. Very sad. Another decent company going down the shitter thanks to clueless corporate bean counters.[/QUOTE]


Same here. All you list is why I've shopped at Target and not Wal-mart for the past several years despite most things being a little more expensive.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']I like how people who spend 300 a month at place think they own it. Health insurance for those employees cost more than that.[/QUOTE]

Health Insurance is whats killing business here in the US.
 
i can say that things are changing at target. Using my personal connections i have found out that the truck teams will not start til 6:00am now instead of 4am. The truck teams will be now stocking shelves while the store is open and assisting guest. (looks like walmart truck stocking is coming to a target near you asap.) Also you will notice less lighting on displays and throughout the store starting will small appliances and working around the store. heres another one for you dont order off the website they will screw up your order!!!!! good help you if you call target corp or any of their #s all calls are directed to call centers out of the usa. india and other 3rd world call centers. i encountered the website problem with mass effect 2 collectors edition. i was sent the regular one. then was given the run around by 3 different calls. hard to say this but thank god for walmart they had it in stock.
 
[quote name='cmb00']heres another one for you dont order off the website they will screw up your order!!!!! good help you if you call target corp or any of their #s all calls are directed to call centers out of the usa. india and other 3rd world call centers.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but I'd rather speak to a "3rd world call center" than try to figure out what the hell you're trying to say in this sentence.
 
[quote name='Ryukahn']You bring up a very good point. Assuming Target has done the research to back that up, then it would make a lot of sense. I have been out of retail for many years now, and with the current economy a lot has changed, so what I said may no longer carry as much weight as it did when I worked retail.[/QUOTE]


Or the fact that your not upselling toilet paper and "fashionable" clothes to customers. There is hardly any support at the front registers, lines are always a mile long. The workers are normally at the stations, like electronics, etc. But there are literally no floor walkers.

Target is trying to figure out what to do in this economy. Has anyone noticed all the "club pricing without the membership" BS they are hanging fromt eh ceiling. Its trying what it can to generate additional sales. They are a large company. I worked there many, many years ago. They just dont have the best prices by a long shot, and that hurts them.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']I like how people who spend 300 a month at place think they own it. Health insurance for those employees cost more than that.[/QUOTE]

I like how CEOs think they own a corporation and raid it for their personal gain (Target CEO total annual compensation: ~40 million)

How many health plans could half of the CEOs compensation buy? That would bring his compensation down to 20 million, is that enough to live on?
 
I'm surprised to see people complaining about long lines. I hardly ever run into long lines at Target. At most 2 or 3 people in front of me who usually don't have a ton of items.

I tend to go on weekday afternoons or evenings rather than weekends though. But even on weekends it hasn't been terrible as they tend to have more cashiers.
 
I'm pretty sure Circuit City was doing the wage capping and such on a smaller scale long before it became nationally known.

Beyond that, I won't get into detail as I haven't really looked at all the facts, but on the surface it's just ironic that health care costs are cited as the reason to make this change.. with no healthy employees, who is going to run daily operations? (Don't think too hard about this, there's obvious flaws in the statement, but you can see what I mean).

Screw it.. to me Target is only a more expensive but clean version of WalMart. I haven't opted to pay the premium for a marginally nicer shopping experience in years with things as tight as they've been.
 
My Target has 16 lanes for checkout.
If I am lucky 2 will be open.

Ive just left shit there and walked out. I'm not waiting 25 mins in line to buy a 9.99 game.
 
Yeah the ones I go to generally only have maybe 3 or 4 of the lanes open, but the lines still aren't very long. Of course, they're not the Super Targets with full grocery stores, so that probably helps in terms of the number of items each person has.

I've very seldomly encountered lines that took more than 5-10 minutes in Target, vs. Wal-mart where it was 15-25 minutes nearly every time (not just Super Walmarts with full grocery stores either).

Target still kind of sucks for various reasons, but I haven't gotten annoyed to the point of swearing off shopping there like I did Wal-mart years ago.
 
Weird, my Targets always have several lanes open, and if there's ever more than a few people in each of the lines they open up more immediately. I don't think I've ever waited longer than 5 minutes at the very most to be rung up at a Target. This includes peak times.
 
[quote name='camoor']I like how CEOs think they own a corporation and raid it for their personal gain (Target CEO total annual compensation: ~40 million)

How many health plans could half of the CEOs compensation buy? That would bring his compensation down to 20 million, is that enough to live on?[/QUOTE]

:applause:
 
[quote name='camoor']I like how CEOs think they own a corporation and raid it for their personal gain (Target CEO total annual compensation: ~40 million)

How many health plans could half of the CEOs compensation buy? That would bring his compensation down to 20 million, is that enough to live on?[/QUOTE]

A) CEOs generally earn the money they make, not ALL of it, but a good bit. They risk much and get rewarded accordingly.

B) IF they did give away their own bonus to pay health insurance or whatever other benefits for lower level employees they just open the flood gate for a shit fest. You would think everyone would just say, "Yay, you rock," but no. Instead lower level people will say they aren't getting enough, higher management will wonder where their share is, etc.

EDIT:

[quote name='Chuplayer']:applause:[/QUOTE]

OMG someone talked smack about CEOs they are so coool!!!!!!!
 
Not sure if CC is a good comparison. At CC you are likely buying computer or home system, where it will be important to have knowledgeable staff. At Target people are just grabbing some clothes, food or furniture. Having an experienced staff won't be making a difference in most case
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']A) CEOs generally earn the money they make, not ALL of it, but a good bit. They risk much and get rewarded accordingly.

B) IF they did give away their own bonus to pay health insurance or whatever other benefits for lower level employees they just open the flood gate for a shit fest. You would think everyone would just say, "Yay, you rock," but no. Instead lower level people will say they aren't getting enough, higher management will wonder where their share is, etc.

EDIT:
OMG someone talked smack about CEOs they are so coool!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

In the bloated compensation market of the modern American CEO Target CEO Robert J Ulrich ranks 154 out of 189 when you compare performance vs pay. How exactly does that count as earning it?

What exactly is Robert J Ulrich risking by making this move? Gee if he really screws the pooch he might be outsted by angry shareholders into a golden parachute, my heart absolutely fucking bleeds red because ol' Bob and his exec team may have to pull down a sweet severance package paycheck in the millions for doing nothing in the next few years if he completely tanks the stock price with his latest round of boneheaded decisions.

You're making the classic mistake of "if it's that expensive, it MUST be good". This move screams 'make the shareholders happy NOW and fuck the future of this company'
 
I know everyone wants to demonize the big old corporations, but its not like they enjoy upsetting their employee's. In case you didn't notice our country is the worst recession since the great depression. I feel for people who lose their benefits, but the retail sector is struggling to survive. Reducing benefits is one way of avoiding out right firing people-- it could be worse. The economy is brutal right now and everyone is struggling to survive, this is just the product of that reality, not some evil plain to screw the little guy. Target is just trying to cut costs so that they can keep their doors open.

The argument about CEO's pay is so outplayed. A CEO has tremendous responsibility and immense risk. When things go wrong they are subject to civil and possibly criminal litigation, just look at B of A's ex CEO-the State of New York is going after him. Stock holders make the decision to hire a CEO because they believe that CEO can make them a lot of money, a lot of times they actually do. Usually a ton of their compensation is based on stock that gives them every incentive in the world to make the company as profitable as possible. I know it's the trendy thing to do to bash CEO compensation, but they have tremendous responsibly and the fate of thousands/millions of people rely on their expertise- if you just have 401k you rely on their expertise to help you retire. Boards of directors want the best possible talent in the world, and that costs money. I want my stocks to perform as strongly as possible, if a CEO is expensive but makes the company very profitable then its worth it- like Steve Jobs, I don't know what he's paid, but hes worth every penny. Obviously there are very poor hires some times and you here a ton about those, you usually don't here about the success stories.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']A) CEOs generally earn the money they make, not ALL of it, but a good bit. They risk much and get rewarded accordingly.

B) IF they did give away their own bonus to pay health insurance or whatever other benefits for lower level employees they just open the flood gate for a shit fest. You would think everyone would just say, "Yay, you rock," but no. Instead lower level people will say they aren't getting enough, higher management will wonder where their share is, etc.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but how the fuck does someone "earn" $40 million a year??? That is complete horseshit. That's more than most pro athletes, who get completely lit up in the media for having salaries that high. But for decades corporate America has flown under the radar. Now because of their own greed, and trying to squeeze as much out of the consumer as possible (ontop of screwing with people's health coverage), their companies are finally starting to suffer, and society is noticing the ridiculous gap in salary between upper management and "everyone else".

I'm sorry, but there's no amount of "work" that can justify being paid that much money...ESPECIALLY when your fucking company is tanking. To cut wages of the people who actually keep your stores running and not those of yourself and the people who sit in leather chairs making phone calls is beyond arrogant.

I could understand everybody pitching in. But when you take food and healthcare away from people because you're not willing to sell your 3rd home in St. Barts, you're a piece of shit. This isn't even a political question of Medicaid or welfare. These are honest, hardworking people just getting completely fucked over. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing all these huge chains fall due to their own greed and mismanagement, and see the old time mom & pop stores rise from the ashes.
 
I think in the post NAFTA age the only way to be competitive with the rest of the world is to lower or get rid of minimum wage + all health and retirement benefits. This would also curve inflation down a bit.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong ,but if you lower people's pay won't they spend less? And if they have no health benefits and they get sick and have no money to pay, won't that make things worse?
 
Worst economy ever?
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_large.gif
gdp_large.gif
 
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