'Teacher of Year' tell tells brat student to “Go back to Mexico”

You know, I was thinking today about DD and I think I understand him a little better. I think the biggest difference in the line of thinking is the fact that he isnt a minority (at least I think so..) But both lines of thinking are needed equally.

For example, as the victim of a crime you have no choice but you accepted what happened and overcome. Think of victims of rape, when you listen to the ones that seem to have a normal life afterwards they all went through a period of self loathing, doubt, then understanding, then acceptances, then overcoming. The ones that dont make it usually cant get past it and the event pays over and over for them everyday.

But as an observer of a crime it should be your duty to inform, educate and above all else not let it be swept under the rug for the people who want to just wish it away.

Hope that makes sense. I kinda see it as a heads and tails of the same coin now I guess.
 
I'd don't think DD has ever implied that minorities don't have some onus for working hard and trying to make it in life.

He just suggests that bootstrapping alone isn't enough, as many who work hard and do the right thing don't have much chance of succeeding due to having a terrible family situation growing up, a terrible school system in their district, a dangerous neighborhood environment etc., on top of having to jump over all the barriers decades for institutionalized racism put in the way of minorities, and lower class urban minorities in particular. He just focuses more on discussing that, as he views the bootstrapping as basically a moot point if those things aren't dealt with.

So I think you're both right. We need to do things to combat inequality, racism and concentrated disadvantage. But we do need to combat any cultural negativities those things have engrained in certain areas that leave too many people not willing to try to better themselves as they think "the man" will keep them down regardless of what they do.

Everyone has an obligation to work hard and do all they can to better themselves and their families. But society also has an obligation to do everything we can to ensure a level playing field.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm sorry that I've only read the first two pages but I must say, out of anger, I am so fucking sick and tired of this underlying psychological crap that comes out of Neo-Liberalism towards Hispanics, especially Mexicans. You're reading way too much into it.
Also before you spout racism(prejudiced being the proper term as Hispanic isn't a race) consider the issue here. She's expected to give the student a Spanish form in 8th Grade. That's not the teacher's responsibility. ESL is one place, her class, which teaches English is quite another.
The reason I attack Hispanics in this regard is because this crap usually happens with no other culture in the United States most of the time, in terms of getting something in another language in school. If it did I'd bitch about it whatever culture.
Also the average person would say "Go Back To Mexico" to the kid if they said that. If they said "I'm blank" insert same comeback.
Do some people have an issue with other people because of skin color? Absolutely and that includes Latinos however, for some like myself, it's the fact they don't make an effort to learn the language. This problem has been rampant for a while and I'm disappointed you seem to overlook it dohdough. It's a point that truly gets my hackles up.
Do you think it's a coincidence that SAP with Spanish is offered for most Cable, even possibly OTA programming? That HBO has a Latino channel offered in their lineup, which I might add, I can't get subtitled in English which I'd like.
You can argue me Univision and Galavision and I'd agree with you that that is more for Hispanics that just want to get some of their culture from wherever they came from, in their native language. The former I mentioned at the start of the last paragraphy is not.
If you know of a bunch of Spanish people, Illegals specifically(this is the audience being catered to above), who truly wish to settle here and try to learn the language introduce me to them. I would shake all of their hands without hesitation and try to find a place to help them learn it.
As for the Cable bit I mentioned above most other cultures have to pick up International channels to get stuff in their native language most of the time.
 
Wow this thread blew up quick. I only read the first two pages, so if this has been said I apologize.

I think we can chalk this up to a stressed out teacher who instead of yelling at the kid, beating the kid, throwing something at the kid, she blurted out something that clearly isn't an insult and she clearly didn't really mean.

I really don't know how many times I have felt bad for my past grade school teachers and how students harassed them. This lady isn't a closet racist, despite Mexican not even being a race.

I am wondering who pressed the complaint? The kids and his parents? Or the school? I have seen in school many times in which kids harrassed teachers to get a rise out of them so they could get them in trouble. Teaching kids takes a lot out of you, they are monsters.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Wow this thread blew up quick. I only read the first two pages, so if this has been said I apologize.

I think we can chalk this up to a stressed out teacher who instead of yelling at the kid, beating the kid, throwing something at the kid, she blurted out something that clearly isn't an insult and she clearly didn't really mean.

I really don't know how many times I have felt bad for my past grade school teachers and how students harassed them. This lady isn't a closet racist, despite Mexican not even being a race.

I am wondering who pressed the complaint? The kids and his parents? Or the school? I have seen in school many times in which kids harrassed teachers to get a rise out of them so they could get them in trouble. Teaching kids takes a lot out of you, they are monsters.[/QUOTE]

I'll say this, she shouldn't be fired, but she should be reprimanded. Whether or not the kids harassed her, she knew it was wrong to say, and if you said something like that to someone in most jobs, you would be fired or suspended.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I'll say this, she shouldn't be fired, but she should be reprimanded. Whether or not the kids harassed her, she knew it was wrong to say, and if you said something like that to someone in most jobs, you would be fired or suspended.[/QUOTE]


Nah, I think you are forgetting or vastly discounting the fact that she is a 2 time teacher of the year. This is the one person who is clearly putting in more work than the average pup and is damn good at her job in what seems to be a very typical shitty teach douche bags situation.

Also I disagree that in most jobs you would be fired. I guess most shitty jobs like kmart or something but if you are under contract it takes a lot more to get fired than just saying something that can be taken out of context.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Nah, I think you are forgetting or vastly discounting the fact that she is a 2 time teacher of the year. This is the one person who is clearly putting in more work than the average pup and is damn good at her job in what seems to be a very typical shitty teach douche bags situation.

Also I disagree that in most jobs you would be fired. I guess most shitty jobs like kmart or something but if you are under contract it takes a lot more to get fired than just saying something that can be taken out of context.[/QUOTE]

Maybe so, but she still doesn't get to have a pass for saying something stupid. It's part of her job not to say stupid things. It also says in the article that the school board can choose to fire her, so it seems her contract doesn't protect her from that.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']I'm sorry that I've only read the first two pages but I must say, out of anger, I am so fucking sick and tired of this underlying psychological crap that comes out of Neo-Liberalism towards Hispanics, especially Mexicans. You're reading way too much into it.
Also before you spout racism(prejudiced being the proper term as Hispanic isn't a race) consider the issue here. She's expected to give the student a Spanish form in 8th Grade. That's not the teacher's responsibility. ESL is one place, her class, which teaches English is quite another.
The reason I attack Hispanics in this regard is because this crap usually happens with no other culture in the United States most of the time, in terms of getting something in another language in school. If it did I'd bitch about it whatever culture.
Also the average person would say "Go Back To Mexico" to the kid if they said that. If they said "I'm blank" insert same comeback.
Do some people have an issue with other people because of skin color? Absolutely and that includes Latinos however, for some like myself, it's the fact they don't make an effort to learn the language. This problem has been rampant for a while and I'm disappointed you seem to overlook it dohdough. It's a point that truly gets my hackles up.
Do you think it's a coincidence that SAP with Spanish is offered for most Cable, even possibly OTA programming? That HBO has a Latino channel offered in their lineup, which I might add, I can't get subtitled in English which I'd like.
You can argue me Univision and Galavision and I'd agree with you that that is more for Hispanics that just want to get some of their culture from wherever they came from, in their native language. The former I mentioned at the start of the last paragraphy is not.
If you know of a bunch of Spanish people, Illegals specifically(this is the audience being catered to above), who truly wish to settle here and try to learn the language introduce me to them. I would shake all of their hands without hesitation and try to find a place to help them learn it.
As for the Cable bit I mentioned above most other cultures have to pick up International channels to get stuff in their native language most of the time.[/QUOTE]
Wow...this is a really incoherent rant so I'm just going to give a few bullet points.

- You need to look up the definition Neo-Liberalism. Hint: It's not an evolution of "liberalism" into "new liberalism".

- Hispanic is not a race and neither is Mexican or Latino, but neither is Asian if you really want to split hairs. At that rate, neither is white or black, but we still use those descriptors anyways, so you really don't have a point here.

- The language argument, which is more about assimilation, has been used against immigrants for generations. It was stupid and xenophobic then as it is stupid and xnophobic now.

- If the onus is on native spanish speakers to learn english, then the onus is on you to learn spanish if you want to enjoy spanish language programming. Funny how that works huh!

- Are you drunk?
 
[quote name='dohdough']Haha...thanks, but my philosophy on activism is that it has to take place in the spaces you inhabit whether its friends, family, on the street, fast food restaurant, or an internet forum devoted to getting cheap videogames.;)[/QUOTE]
So, nothing, then?

Not that you have to do anything, but I do find it interesting that you have called me a racist, and yet I volunteer for a non-profit whose activities benefit the working class poor and people of color the most. Whether it is our campaigns to increase public transportation services or eradicate pollution in industrial areas, any successes are going to benefit those who are most vulnerable. Sure, we aren't setting up encampments and generally being dicks to people when we don't get what we want, but we work within the system to build coalitions with government, communities and businesses.

I don't know you very well, but I think you talk a big game but not much else. This is a stereotype about those of your ideology that I very much believe in.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Wow...this is a really incoherent rant so I'm just going to give a few bullet points.

- You need to look up the definition Neo-Liberalism. Hint: It's not an evolution of "liberalism" into "new liberalism".

- Hispanic is not a race and neither is Mexican or Latino, but neither is Asian if you really want to split hairs. At that rate, neither is white or black, but we still use those descriptors anyways, so you really don't have a point here.

- The language argument, which is more about assimilation, has been used against immigrants for generations. It was stupid and xenophobic then as it is stupid and xnophobic now.

- If the onus is on native spanish speakers to learn english, then the onus is on you to learn spanish if you want to enjoy spanish language programming. Funny how that works huh!

- Are you drunk?[/QUOTE]

Ha....ha. The key here is that it's SAP with SPANISH as the second audio language in an English speaking country.
I resent being called Xenophobic. I'm learning Japanese and Korean(looking at Ainu as well) and I would have an issue if there were a whole berth of them expecting me to speak either here so they could get by in America.
What's going to happen when the Spanish speaker and reader who doesn't know English encounters a sign that says they could drown in a lake? They swim in the lake and drown. I'm not saying that to be a dick, it's a valid concern.
Along the lines of what I mentioned before, what would you think if I went to Mexico or any other country where the main language is Spanish and I spoke English expecting to get around? Some here, maybe even yourself, would think I was an entitled American who should have learned the language before going there.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I guess most shitty jobs like kmart or something but if you are under contract it takes a lot more to get fired than just saying something that can be taken out of context.[/QUOTE]
I think that many bad contracts people sign contain a morality clause that companies often use to fire people who've done something the least bit controversial. If you haven't been hired to make controversial opinions and statements, such as a shock jock or something, a joke or a comment could be the end of your career or at the very least a suspension, and it has happened many, many times.

But even the shock jocks, who are hired to make controversial statements, have also been fired, so they find a way to bow down to political correctness all the time.

Even if you are working a typical white collar job, the climate is such that if you do have controversial opinions or enjoy offensive jokes, you should keep them out of the workplace and make them on the Internet under a pseudonym. Companies do searches and you don't want to find yourself on a blacklist.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']
Along the lines of what I mentioned before, what would you think if I went to Mexico or any other country where the main language is Spanish and I spoke English expecting to get around?[/QUOTE]
The Mexicans would not think very highly of you.

Technically, one must know basic English to become a citizen of the United States. There are some exceptions for older folks. So I don't know what we're doing giving all these forms and shit to students in Spanish. If we wanted to create a pathway to citizenship, it should be primarily English instruction should it not? They will need to know it to become citizens, though we don't know the status of this particular student, and probably won't find out.

In that sense, English may not be the national language by law, but it is the de facto official language, and we don't need a law to realize it. It is far easier to conduct business when most of the nation, if not the vast majority of it, speaks the same language.
 
[quote name='Spokker']So, nothing, then?

Not that you have to do anything, but I do find it interesting that you have called me a racist, and yet I volunteer for a non-profit whose activities benefit the working class poor and people of color the most. Whether it is our campaigns to increase public transportation services or eradicate pollution in industrial areas, any successes are going to benefit those who are most vulnerable. Sure, we aren't setting up encampments and generally being dicks to people when we don't get what we want, but we work within the system to build coalitions with government, communities and businesses.

I don't know you very well, but I think you talk a big game but not much else. This is a stereotype about those of your ideology that I very much believe in.[/QUOTE]
You're right. You Don't know who I am and I don't need to post my CV to compete in a dick-waving contest with you. I let my knowledge speak for itself. I've probably done more by the age of 16 than you have your entire life. So what if you volunteer at a non-profit. Good for you. You wanna cookie or something?

Activism takes different forms in different environments. Your way isn't the only way to help the less fortunate.
 
[quote name='dohdough']You're right. You Don't know who I am and I don't need to post my CV to compete in a dick-waving contest with you. I let my knowledge speak for itself. I've probably done more by the age of 16 than you have your entire life. So what if you volunteer at a non-profit. Good for you. You wanna cookie or something?

Activism takes different forms in different environments. Your way isn't the only way to help the less fortunate.[/QUOTE]


You go girl! Tackling the issues of racism one video game site at a time!
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Ha....ha. The key here is that it's SAP with SPANISH as the second audio language in an English speaking country.
I resent being called Xenophobic. I'm learning Japanese and Korean(looking at Ainu as well) and I would have an issue if there were a whole berth of them expecting me to speak either here so they could get by in America.
What's going to happen when the Spanish speaker and reader who doesn't know English encounters a sign that says they could drown in a lake? They swim in the lake and drown. I'm not saying that to be a dick, it's a valid concern.
Along the lines of what I mentioned before, what would you think if I went to Mexico or any other country where the main language is Spanish and I spoke English expecting to get around? Some here, maybe even yourself, would think I was an entitled American who should have learned the language before going there.[/QUOTE]
The US isn't Japan, Korea, or Mexico. Mexico and it's citizens also have a long and unique history with the US which changes the dynamics of the relationship compared to any other group the immigrated to the US...especially since much of the population didn't have to immigrate into the US; they were already here.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']You go girl! Tackling the issues of racism one video game site at a time![/QUOTE]
Care to explain why you think a solidly middle-class black family doesn't prioritize education? No? That's what I thought.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Care to explain why you think a solidly middle-class black family doesn't prioritize education? No? That's what I thought.[/QUOTE]


Because if they did their children wouldn't be in the same bracket result wise as those of white children living in poverty.

But if middle class black families do prioritize education then one of two things is occuring:

A) Black kids aren't as smart as white kids

B) Standardized tests personify racism


I worked at Job Corps for 4 years until I decided to leave so I could work from home. To this day I still put in a shift or two a week working with these youth because I enjoy it.

I can tell you first hand that there is no difference in educational potential between any of the students at my Center (Black, White, Asian, etc.) but in order to be successful some kids have to overcome cultural barriers.


I do find it interesting that you point out you had or have accomplished more in this front by the age of 16 then others have in a lifetime. Even at age 16 a person has not lived long enough to be able to independently decide views and opinions for themself which means you've been led into these thoughts and beliefs that you so strongly feel.


Although I'm sure you'll say I'm wrong I think it explains a lot.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Because if they did their children wouldn't be in the same bracket result wise as those of white children living in poverty.

But if middle class black families do prioritize education then one of two things is occuring:

A) Black kids aren't as smart as white kids

B) Standardized tests personify racism


I worked at Job Corps for 4 years until I decided to leave so I could work from home. To this day I still put in a shift or two a week working with these youth because I enjoy it.

I can tell you first hand that there is no difference in educational potential between any of the students at my Center (Black, White, Asian, etc.) but in order to be successful some kids have to overcome cultural barriers.


I do find it interesting that you point out you had or have accomplished more in this front by the age of 16 then others have in a lifetime. Even at age 16 a person has not lived long enough to be able to independently decide views and opinions for themself which means you've been led into these thoughts and beliefs that you so strongly feel.


Although I'm sure you'll say I'm wrong I think it explains a lot.[/QUOTE]
ORLY?

Well, I guess black kids and white kids are always treated equally, except when they're not. There are countless studies on this phenomenon regarding both achievement AND discipline, but I guess you know so much more about it because of your stint in Job Corps. I guess the story you ignored is bullshit to you too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...en-as-whites/2011/12/23/gIQA8WNQNP_story.html

As for doing more by age 16? Let's just say that activism runs in the family.

edit: As for being indoctrinated? Ha...ok...YOU GOT ME. No one has EVER been influenced or led into any "thoughts" or "beliefs" except fucking commies and LIEberals. I guess growing up seeing and experiencing things like racial discrimination, social inequity, and learning about the history of it the US makes me a fucking mindless sheep that was fooled into believing self-defeating hocum or else I'd be king of the fucking world.

At least I don't post my volunteer history like I deserve a fucking medal for it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You aren't going to get anywhere with dohdough arguing what you do to help people. In his eyes everyone is racist because white people amongst other races (well every race in order of how much worse they have it) participate in a system that isn't equal for all.

He doesn't realize that the system as it is, is a normality, and that rather than tear that system down, we should make the system inclusive of all. People who attempt to make things more equal attempt to accomplish this however are still taking advantage of the system that put them where they are.

If you have a good job, make decent money, have a house, and a car, in dohdoughs eyes you are racist no matter what you do with your good fortune.

It is an interesting little catch 22 that goes on in his head.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I'll say this, she shouldn't be fired, but she should be reprimanded. Whether or not the kids harassed her, she knew it was wrong to say, and if you said something like that to someone in most jobs, you would be fired or suspended.[/QUOTE]

I have seen a lot of back assward firings in companies in my short time. Chances are if they were looking to get rid of you, then saying that will be your downfall. If you are too important, or necessary to the company, you will get away scot-free. That logic works with a lot of things besides racism.

But that is besides the point. We, the media, and the school do not need to make a principled stand against racism, prejudice, etc in this case because we can logically, and clearly say that it lacked any of it. The kid was harrassing her, she had a slip of the tongue. End of story. You do not need to punish something that clearly wasn't intended or even present.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I have seen a lot of back assward firings in companies in my short time. Chances are if they were looking to get rid of you, then saying that will be your downfall. If you are too important, or necessary to the company, you will get away scot-free. That logic works with a lot of things besides racism.

But that is besides the point. We, the media, and the school do not need to make a principled stand against racism, prejudice, etc in this case because we can logically, and clearly say that it lacked any of it. The kid was harrassing her, she had a slip of the tongue. End of story. You do not need to punish something that clearly wasn't intended or even present.[/QUOTE]

She made a "slip of the tongue", that's all fine and dandy, she should still be punished by being reprimanded. I don't care what her intentions were, that's how it works.
 
[quote name='docvinh']She made a "slip of the tongue", that's all fine and dandy, she should still be punished by being reprimanded. I don't care what her intentions were, that's how it works.[/QUOTE]

No that isn't how it works. I don't know about you, but I do not want to live in a world where you only look at that surface of something to judge and condemn it. It is lazy and illogical.
 
[quote name='Knoell']No that isn't how it works. I don't know about you, but I do not want to live in a world where you only look at that surface of something to judge and condemn it. It is lazy and illogical.[/QUOTE]

Here's the thing though, that's the world you live in. The justice system doesn't care that you stole that food because your family was hungry, the point is that you broke the law, or even zero tolerance policies. It doesn't matter that a kid brought a knife to protect himself from a gang of bullies, it only matters that he brought a knife and needs to be suspended automatically. So yeah, that is how it works. I don't think she should lose her job though, that seems a bit extreme.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Here's the thing though, that's the world you live in. The justice system doesn't care that you stole that food because your family was hungry, the point is that you broke the law. So yeah, that is how it works. I don't think she should lose her job though, that seems a bit extreme.[/QUOTE]

While true, there are provisions in the sentencing system for mitigating and aggravating factors.

Even with all that's been done to limit judicial discretion in sentencing with sentencing guidelines etc. from the 70s on, they still have some freedom of sentencing within a range rather than having to give out a specific sentence.

So I more or less agree with you. Something has to be done because the teacher shouldn't have made that remark. Teaching kids is very hard work, but teacher's have to bite their tongues and not say things like that when agitated.

But it should be a simple reprimand as all indications are that this is a very good teacher who got flustered and said something offensive that she shouldn't have said.
 
Yeah...no one here is saying that she needs anything more than a formal verbal warning...at least I don't think so, and I come down hard on racist shit. Anything more is a little extreme considering her history. Sounds like she already knows what she did and there's little point in being more punitive. If her history is any indication of her character, it's that she'd probably turn this into a teaching moment and become an even better teacher.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top