Teaching Chinese prostitutes to drink

Before anyone blames this on Obama:

The grant, made last November, refers to prostitutes as "female sex workers"--or FSW--and their handlers as "gatekeepers."
Click to expand...

And before anyone blames it on the liberal Congress, you might want to consider that NIH is an executive agency which is allotted funds but hands out grant money at their own discretion (with a peer review system). It's not like this is a budget item.

And before you blame anybody, do two things:

1) Actually look into the program to see if maybe there are some benefits.

2) Provide some context when tossing around large numbers. $2.6 million for an entire research program is significantly less than 1% of our daily expenditure in Iraq.

I'm not advocating a position here, just asking for some rationality when looking at things like this.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Before anyone blames this on Obama:



And before anyone blames it on the liberal Congress, you might want to consider that NIH is an executive agency which is allotted funds but hands out grant money at their own discretion (with a peer review system). It's not like this is a budget item.

And before you blame anybody, do two things:

1) Actually look into the program to see if maybe there are some benefits.

2) Provide some context when tossing around large numbers. $2.6 million for an entire research program is significantly less than 1% of our daily expenditure in Iraq.

I'm not advocating a position here, just asking for some rationality when looking at things like this.[/QUOTE]

Being entirely rational (something I strive for BTW):

1. I never blamed Obama. I knew it was under Bush's administration this happened (I read the article). This thread is about the government as a whole, not Obama or Bush.

2. Whatever benefits there are are not worth the cost to the U.S. taxpayer. This is painfully obvious. Maybe the benefits are worth the cost to the Chinese taxpayer - a country that we are borrowing from to pay for this bullshit.

3. Yes, $2.6 million is small for the federal government, but this is one program of many. And I don't want my government wasting $0.01, much less $2.6 million, which after all is not a small sum of money in the real world.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Being entirely rational (something I strive for BTW):

1. I never blamed Obama. I knew it was under Bush's administration this happened (I read the article). This thread is about the government as a whole, not Obama or Bush.

2. Whatever benefits there are are not worth the cost to the U.S. taxpayer. This is painfully obvious. Maybe the benefits are worth the cost to the Chinese taxpayer - a country that we are borrowing from to pay for this bullshit.

3. Yes, $2.6 million is small for the federal government, but this is one program of many. And I don't want my government wasting $0.01, much less $2.6 million, which after all is not a small sum of money in the real world.[/QUOTE]

Never said you were blaming it on Obama. My point was that someone was bound to sooner or later, so I wanted to nip that in the bud right away.

I'm not at all convinced this has no benefit to the American people, something which the article spells out quite painly. Whether you choose to give credence to the justification provided is up to you. Examining the link between alcohol abuse and HIV in sex workers seems to me like a worthy use of money.

Newsflash: We have sex workers in this country as well, but the fact that prostitution is illegal in 49 states makes it somewhat difficult to conduct this study here. Sure one could say why should we be wasting money on the study of an illegal activity, but I think most could agree that stemming the spread of HIV is a good thing.

Whether this study ultimately provides actionable results or not is really irrelevant to the central point: This is exactly the sort of thing on which the National Institute of Health should be spending the money allotted to it.
 
A.) If you get HIV from partaking in an illegal activity, then it sucks to be you - I don't see *any* reason to waste tax dollars on it.
B.) Prostitution shouldn't be illegal.
C.) If you get HIV from having sex with a prostitute, then it sucks to be you. I didn't get to enjoy the ride, I shouldn't have to fund your treatment or the research to prevent it from happening in the first place.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Never said you were blaming it on Obama. My point was that someone was bound to sooner or later, so I wanted to nip that in the bud right away.

I'm not at all convinced this has no benefit to the American people, something which the article spells out quite painly. Whether you choose to give credence to the justification provided is up to you. Examining the link between alcohol abuse and HIV in sex workers seems to me like a worthy use of money.

Newsflash: We have sex workers in this country as well, but the fact that prostitution is illegal in 49 states makes it somewhat difficult to conduct this study here. Sure one could say why should we be wasting money on the study of an illegal activity, but I think most could agree that stemming the spread of HIV is a good thing.

Whether this study ultimately provides actionable results or not is really irrelevant to the central point: This is exactly the sort of thing on which the National Institute of Health should be spending the money allotted to it.[/QUOTE]

Disagree that it has a benefit to Americans. Study it in the U.S. and pay U.S. researchers to do it. Even then it's dubious, but at least it would be arguable. If NIH is doing this with the money it's been given, they've been given too much money (shock).

I also agree with UncleBob that prostitution should be legal. Why the government has any business criminalizing a consensual activity that harms no one is beyond me.
 
[quote name='bvharris'] Examining the link between alcohol abuse and HIV in sex workers seems to me like a worthy use of money.

.[/QUOTE]

wtf?! examining the link between drunk whores and HIV is a worthy use of money?! THEYRE DRUNK WHORES! STUDY OVER! this is a WASTE of money. 2.5 million isnt a lot, but when youre 11 trillion in the whole every million counts.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']wtf?! examining the link between drunk whores and HIV is a worthy use of money?! THEYRE DRUNK WHORES! STUDY OVER! this is a WASTE of money. 2.5 million isnt a lot, but when youre 11 trillion in the whole every million counts.[/QUOTE]

The depth of your compassion is truly stirring.

The reasons why the study isn't being conducted in the US seemed pretty well spelled out in the article (for those who bothered to read it). If you don't think studying HIV patterns with an eye towards prevention is a worthy use of money, than I'm glad you're not running the NIH.

It's a shame that we've reached the point where every government program in this country is treated like it's the great satan or something. People don't even bother to consider whether expenditures can do some good before railing against "wasteful government spending."
 
[quote name='bvharris']It's a shame that we've reached the point where every government program in this country is treated like it's the great satan or something. People don't even bother to consider whether expenditures can do some good before railing against "wasteful government spending."[/QUOTE]

You can only get kicked in the nuts so many times before you start protecting your nuts every time someone walks by.
 
[quote name='bvharris']The depth of your compassion is truly stirring.

The reasons why the study isn't being conducted in the US seemed pretty well spelled out in the article (for those who bothered to read it). If you don't think studying HIV patterns with an eye towards prevention is a worthy use of money, than I'm glad you're not running the NIH.

It's a shame that we've reached the point where every government program in this country is treated like it's the great satan or something. People don't even bother to consider whether expenditures can do some good before railing against "wasteful government spending."[/QUOTE]

should HIV be studied? yes. is there room in the federal budget for HIV studies? i believe so. does that mean this money is well spent? not even close. just because the study involves one of the worst diseases afflicting the world right now doesnt mean it should get a free pass.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You can only get kicked in the nuts so many times before you start protecting your nuts every time someone walks by.[/QUOTE]

There's a middle ground between "blindly following" and "blindly opposing", believe me.

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']should HIV be studied? yes. is there room in the federal budget for HIV studies? i believe so. does that mean this money is well spent? not even close. just because the study involves one of the worst diseases afflicting the world right now doesnt mean it should get a free pass.[/QUOTE]

That's your opinion. Obviously I agree this shouldn't be a top priority, but I find it hard to get worked up over something so ultimately insignificant. Wasteful government spending has become some kind of bogeyman, when in reality its pretty low down on the totem pole of problems facing our nation.
 
[quote name='bvharris']
That's your opinion. Obviously I agree this shouldn't be a top priority, but I find it hard to get worked up over something so ultimately insignificant. Wasteful government spending has become some kind of bogeyman, when in reality its pretty low down on the totem pole of problems facing our nation.[/QUOTE]

i think a lot of people share that opinion and thats a bad thing. youll hear someone say, "oh its just 2.6 million, thats nothing compared to iraq or medicare". and theyre right, but the problem is the government has THOUSANDS of these little programs theyve been funding over the last few decades, when you start adding up the numbers then it gets to a very very large sum.
 
So run for Congress and change it. Or send this link to your Congressman. Actually do something that will make a difference instead of bitching about it.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']At least Mexican workers do some thing worth while in this country... ?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, turning suburbs into crime-ridden slums when 20-30 of them buy a house and share the rent, then keep on living like they're still in some lawless bordertown. At least when we stay in other countries we just act like obnoxious drunken assholes until the vacation ends. See Figure A: The "Woo Girl."
 
Nothing racist about it, that's becoming more common along the border. Property values are going down the shitter due to an increase in criminal activity centered around these homes being converted into makeshift motels for people that just hop over to do some work for a while and go back. Did I generalize? Yeah, I'm guilty of that.
 
[quote name='depascal22']So run for Congress and change it. Or send this link to your Congressman. Actually do something that will make a difference instead of bitching about it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, debate sucks. Man, I'm glad we don't have a forum dedicated to it.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry'] Did I generalize? Yeah, I'm guilty of that.[/QUOTE]

I thought BvHarris made it sound like Teaching Chinese prostitutes to drink was a good use of funds and a good cause, but now looking over the debate where I posted I don't know what's what... I do think it's comical that we give pointless issues like this attention...
 
[quote name='bvharris']That's your opinion. Obviously I agree this shouldn't be a top priority, but I find it hard to get worked up over something so ultimately insignificant. Wasteful government spending has become some kind of bogeyman, when in reality its pretty low down on the totem pole of problems facing our nation.[/QUOTE]

The majority of government spending is wasteful. There, I said it.
 
I don't understand how we claim to have priorities (healthcare, social security) but everytime Uncle Sam gets out the checkbook it's for shit like this, or economic stimulus packages that have millions of dollars going towards wooden arrows for boy scout camps...if you chose fletcher as a career choice, you're financially going to be up shit creek regardless of the state of the economy.
 
[quote name='depascal22']So run for Congress and change it. Or send this link to your Congressman. Actually do something that will make a difference instead of bitching about it.[/QUOTE]

ive written matsui before. she must not have gotten my letter because she voted for the bail out anyway.
 
[quote name='bvharris']And before anyone blames it on the liberal Congress, you might want to consider that NIH is an executive agency which is allotted funds but hands out grant money at their own discretion (with a peer review system). It's not like this is a budget item.[/QUOTE]

So it was handed out by progressives in the executive branch, instead of the legislative branch.

[quote name='bvharris']The depth of your compassion is truly stirring.[/QUOTE]

Many religions preach compassion.

[quote name='bvharris']Wasteful government spending has become some kind of bogeyman, when in reality its pretty low down on the totem pole of problems facing our nation.[/QUOTE]

You should tell that to the people who are hurt or killed by it. Where is your compassion?
 
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