The Avatar thread!!! A masterpiece :)

I can only watch the same story some many times. You can use different settings and characters, but its still the same.
 
[quote name='winterice']Let's not shit on Pixar. Their movies have a lot of heart to them. I'm of the mind that if you change their movies from CG to hand drawn, they'd still be good.[/QUOTE]

And that's the point. Pixar makes fully animated movies. I can deal with their CG because it's a cartoon (that's not to say cartoons cannot be deep, Pixar and Studio Ghibli have demonstrated their depth and caliber).

This, however, was not a fully animated movie. It's schizophrenic and lame -- this could've been good if it had gone all CG or instead a more Star Wars OT route (which would be financially impossible unless they changed much of the cinematography). Instead it switches between realistic actors and then wholly unrealistic blue elves. To say that the CGI created an aesthetic distance is an understatement -- the only time I felt part of the movie was the first 30 minutes when it was mainly real actors hanging around with (really fucking cool) future tech HUDs and UIs and hologram things.

However, I found the Colonel to be hilarious -- he was so camp that I couldn't take him seriously at all. He needed to be doing more smoking or something.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']I want to see this but at the same time I feel that special effects dont make a movie. Transformers 2 had great CG but the movie itself was shit. i expect the same from Avatar. I visual feast with no substance.[/quote]
Uh, there's plenty more substance than Transformers, don't you worry. The preconceived notions won't help your enjoyment, I imagine.

Not being Citizen fuckin' Kane (or as people seem to continually be referencing in this thread, a sappy sad-eyed Pixar movie with cheap heartstring-pulls, and yes, this is coming from a HUGE Pixar fan) doesn't automatically mean that a movie has "no substance." That's just a ridiculous absolute, if you ask me.

A lot of you confuse good visuals with good movies.
Click to expand...
I'm calling out this statement as being even more condescending than I am.
 
Yeah, but Cameron wasn't being subtle with his 'messages' at ALL. Isn't that filmmaking 101? Show, don't tell?
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Not being Citizen fuckin' Kane (or as people seem to continually be referencing in this thread, a sappy sad-eyed Pixar movie with cheap heartstring-pulls, and yes, this is coming from a HUGE Pixar fan) doesn't automatically mean that a movie has "no substance." That's just a ridiculous absolute, if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

I kinda eluded to this in my critique of the movie back in the first page of this thread , but maybe a cheap heartstring pull was what I needed. As lame/stupid/pathetic/whatever you might want to call this sounds , for me , having that emotional moment (doesn't have to be a sad one , but it's usually the easiest or most common) can be the difference between me giving the movie a 7/8/9/10 out of 10 score (or a 4 or 5 out of 5 in netflix scoring). Counting only 2009 movies , Star Trek , Up , District 9 and even damn 2012 gave me one of those moments. Avatar came close at one or two parts , but couldn't seal the deal.

Now this isn't an absolute thing for me , since of course different genres lend to different elements of what makes them good. But that emotional moment can be the big difference between me feeling the movie is good , great or fantastic.

I apologize if this post makes no sense to anyone but me.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']That's too bad. Can you see it in RealD? That's perfectly fine, as well. And hey, maybe they can get an IMAX print second-run?[/QUOTE]

I saw it in RealD over the weekend when it came out. Still would be nice to see it on IMAX. I hope they can get it maybe after the first of the year.

[quote name='supermodestmouse']i really liked the movie. My friend and I were trying to see where it may have pulled influence from though too. so far we have:

story
Pocahontas - Classic John Smith/Pocahontas thing going on
Matrix - user interface
Fern Gully - that really hokey movie with fairies that help keep the forest alive
Princess Monoke - advancing army vs nature

characters/vehicles
Starcraft - the native animals looked similar to the ones that were idle around the maps of starcraft
Matrix - Mechs were almost straight out of revolution
Gears of War - Mech guns had bayonets that looked like chainsaws
HALO - the helicopters looked a lot like Hornets but with cargo bays
HALO wars - the main gunship the Colonel rode on (dragon?) was reminiscent of the big ship USNC can make

I'm sure a lot of these points may have been discussed in the previous posts, but I just thought it was an interesting way to see things :)[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same as you when I saw the trailers. However this isn't the only movie to do that. War of the Worlds did that. The ships that walked looked like the things in Half-Life 2 and the aliens that were in them looked like the ones from ID4.
 
[quote name='supermodestmouse']i really liked the movie. My friend and I were trying to see where it may have pulled influence from though too. so far we have:

story
[/QUOTE]


Dances with Wolves?
 
QUoted from teamxbox regarding peoples opinions without having seen the movie:
Nice review dude!!! Here are my reviews of some movies I haven't seen.
-Inglorious basterds: SUCKED. Historically inaccurate. If this is the future of filmaking then count me out.
-Up in the air: STUPID! LOL! A movie about airports? How stupid.
-Invictus: LOL what is this a movie about rugby or something? BORING!
Click to expand...

seriously, some of you need to learn how to just grab some popcorn, your girl, and turn your mind off for 2 minutes to enjoy a flick instead of trying to sound like an intelligent e-snob, or a Mars Volta fan(you pick.)
 
[quote name='redshadow']QUoted from teamxbox regarding peoples opinions without having seen the movie:

seriously, some of you need to learn how to just grab some popcorn, your girl, and turn your mind off for 2 minutes to enjoy a flick instead of trying to sound like an intelligent e-snob, or a Mars Volta fan(you pick.)[/QUOTE]


If turning your mind off is all it takes to enjoy a movie then movies would be nothing but random colors and shapes for 2 hours in a manner pleasing to the eyes. Maybe someone talking about shit that doesnt make sense but sounds interesting here and there.
 
I REALLY loved this movie; seeing it in IMAX 3D is a must. I seriously think this movie will redefine the way films are made.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']If turning your mind off is all it takes to enjoy a movie then movies would be nothing but random colors and shapes for 2 hours in a manner pleasing to the eyes. Maybe someone talking about shit that doesnt make sense but sounds interesting here and there.[/QUOTE]You obviously prefer intense intelligent films that cause you to question morality with deep meaningful symbolism (which is totally fine). Then why do you belittle yourself by seeing this type of movie? Shouldn't you be seeing movies like: There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men (great thought provoking movies!)

For me ("majoring" in CG Entertainment Design), I have great appreciation and respect when it comes to these sorts of films. In THIS context, even if there was no real story at all (creatures just running around ect.) I'd still think it is a masterpiece of a creative art. I find that people don't respect the amount of talent and creativity it takes to create such worlds. And if you really just rely on compelling story telling, then there a bunch of movies that cater to that and don't mess around with any sort of "graphical entertainment". Also, books are one of the best ways to get this sort of experience.
 
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[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Dances with Wolves?[/QUOTE]
And while we're at it, how about Pocahontas, Ferngully, The Last Samurai, Last of the Mohicans, and of course, plenty of classical mythology and basic "hero myth" stuff.

By the way, I doubt they got anything from, like, Halo Wars. The production design on this movie was done years before that game came out.

[quote name='Malik112099']If turning your mind off is all it takes to enjoy a movie then movies would be nothing but random colors and shapes for 2 hours in a manner pleasing to the eyes. Maybe someone talking about shit that doesnt make sense but sounds interesting here and there.[/QUOTE]
There are more than two degrees. It's not like, you have the 2012s and Transformers 2s, and then you have the There Will Be Bloods and Godfathers, and these are the only two degrees of filmmaking possible. Avatar is no Wild Strawberries, but shit, you sure as hell don't have to "turn your brain off" to enjoy it.
 
I just saw Avatar in 3D and I totally loved the movie. Maybe the characters and story aren't really deep, but still, I loved it and I was totally entertained the whole time.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']And while we're at it, how about Pocahontas, Ferngully, The Last Samurai, Last of the Mohicans, and of course, plenty of classical mythology and basic "hero myth" stuff.

By the way, I doubt they got anything from, like, Halo Wars. The production design on this movie was done years before that game came out.


There are more than two degrees. It's not like, you have the 2012s and Transformers 2s, and then you have the There Will Be Bloods and Godfathers, and these are the only two degrees of filmmaking possible. Avatar is no Wild Strawberries, but shit, you sure as hell don't have to "turn your brain off" to enjoy it.[/QUOTE]


I get it but I am trying to to weed out the HOLY SHIT THIS MOVIE ROCKS DID YOU SEE THOSE CG ANIMATIONZ!?!?? from the "Good movie, few flaws and plot holes, but overall an enjoyable movie going experience with a good story and enjoyable characters"

see what im saying?
 
[quote name='Malik112099']I get it but I am trying to to weed out the HOLY SHIT THIS MOVIE ROCKS DID YOU SEE THOSE CG ANIMATIONZ!?!?? from the "Good movie, few flaws and plot holes, but overall an enjoyable movie going experience with a good story and enjoyable characters"

see what im saying?[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you're just complaining about your own slow reading speed, inefficient use of the scroll wheel, etc.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']I get it but I am trying to to weed out the HOLY SHIT THIS MOVIE ROCKS DID YOU SEE THOSE CG ANIMATIONZ!?!?? from the "Good movie, few flaws and plot holes, but overall an enjoyable movie going experience with a good story and enjoyable characters"

see what im saying?[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Avatar is the latter, I assure.

Also, after you see it, be sure to check out this excellent article on the real science fiction elements of the movie (spoiler alerts):
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440

The science is all really well-thought out, more than really any other big "sci-fi" movie in some time. I think Cameron deserves credit for this. Yeah, of course it's not real "hard" science or whatever, but it's the sort of grounded, though-out fictional science, that I think can be really inspiring in movies. As the article mentions, like Star Wars and Star Trek inspired many a youth to enter astronomy and other science, I'm sure that Avatar will do the same.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Fair enough. Avatar is the latter, I assure.

Also, after you see it, be sure to check out this excellent article on the real science fiction elements of the movie (spoiler alerts):
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440

The science is all really well-thought out, more than really any other big "sci-fi" movie in some time. I think Cameron deserves credit for this. Yeah, of course it's not real "hard" science or whatever, but it's the sort of grounded, though-out fictional science, that I think can be really inspiring in movies. As the article mentions, like Star Wars and Star Trek inspired many a youth to enter astronomy and other science, I'm sure that Avatar will do the same.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Cameron did do a seemingly (that floating mountains point made earlier, while I didn't realize it during the movie (and no one else did except for that guy) it does make sense) good job of mapping out the science.

However, the movie did show me that all scientists are huge pricks (except that one Indian guy) without any sense of reality (which is untrue). There wasn't even a lot of science in this movie aside from the War Machine. Which is cool I guess, let's all raise little Hitlers :cool:
 
[quote name='c0rnpwn']However, the movie did show me that all scientists are huge pricks[/quote]
Err...I didn't get that. Like, Norm, really? :/

And in contrast to, what, the really nice guys from corporate and security?

without any sense of reality (which is untrue).
Click to expand...
Unlike, say, Quaritch, who was really down-to-earth and level-headed, right?
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Err...I didn't get that. Like, Norm, really? :/

And in contrast to, what, the really nice guys from corporate and security?


Unlike, say, Quaritch, who was really down-to-earth and level-headed, right?[/QUOTE]

Everyone was campy in that movie.

Sigourney Weaver was a bitch with a cigarette -- her treatise on the navi having the internet was a joke and showed her character's 'head in the clouds' mentality.

Her lackey, I don't even know his name it was hardly ever mentioned, was an arrogant little dick who hated anyone that was ignorant (it's like he was birthed from the internet).

The Indian guy (did he even have a name?) was cool, seemed like a nice guy. The techs inside with the two Avatars were incompetent.

Everyone in corporate was douchey and tooltastic -- stereotypical.
Security were meatheads -- again stereotypical.

So yeah, they're all jerks and I don't know what good to make of it, unless to conclude that James Cameron is incredibly pedantic to the point of nausea.

EDIT: Who's Quaritch?
 
[quote name='Malik112099']If turning your mind off is all it takes to enjoy a movie then movies would be nothing but random colors and shapes for 2 hours in a manner pleasing to the eyes. Maybe someone talking about shit that doesnt make sense but sounds interesting here and there.[/QUOTE]



I was merely commenting on the fact that some people must have the sole intention of sitting through movies only to talk about what is or is not plausible in the real world, and what the director did wrong by common standards.


Basically, either sit and watch the movie and enjoy it, or don't. But if people are going to come into this thread saying "I heard the story wasn't original. Screw this movie." Then I am perfectly willing to respond with "Grab a book."
 
[quote name='c0rnpwn']Everyone was campy in that movie.[/quote]
I didn't deny that. This movie wasn't a character study.
Her lackey, I don't even know his name it was hardly ever mentioned, was an arrogant little dick who hated anyone that was ignorant (it's like he was birthed from the internet).
Click to expand...
Norm. Eh, I just didn't get that.
The Indian guy (did he even have a name?) was cool, seemed like a nice guy.
Click to expand...
Max.
James Cameron is incredibly pedantic to the point of nausea.
Click to expand...
Pedantic? Hah, jeez.

EDIT: Who's Quaritch?
Click to expand...
15119975.jpg
 
He's quite literally, level-headed. (zing)

Norm, you see it when he's talking to Jake -- "what?! you don't understand what "I see you" means? Plebeian." or "What?! You don't understand Navian nuance xyz?!" He did it repeatedly. He sorta grew as a character after he realized Jake was accomplishing way more with his brand of 'science' than his textbook learnin'. I ended up not hating him as much as I started.

I'm softening up on my stance about the movie having slept on it -- I liked Quaritch but I still feel like this movie could've accomplished so much more.

So it's an average/good movie, but it's no (OT) Star Wars. It wasn't even Star Trek. I think it will go down in history as a tech demo and nothing more.
 
[quote name='c0rnpwn']Norm, you see it when he's talking to Jake -- "what?! you don't understand what "I see you" means? Plebeian."[/quote]

Hmm...I suppose I can see what you mean, but isn't that the exact scene where Jake mentions that Norm's "attitude is improving"?
 
Saw it today. It was fucking fantastic. Much better than Star Trek or any of the recent big CG action type movies of the last decade.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Hmm...I suppose I can see what you mean, but isn't that the exact scene where Jake mentions that Norm's "attitude is improving"?[/QUOTE]

I'll take your word for it -- but again, actions not words. Towards the end Norm mellowed, which is cool, but at that moment just cuz he said it doesn't make it true.
 
[quote name='c0rnpwn']
Her lackey, I don't even know his name it was hardly ever mentioned, was an arrogant little dick who hated anyone that was ignorant (it's like he was birthed from the internet).[/QUOTE]

Lets be honest, if you just spent the last 11 years of your life preparing for this opportunity (5 learning the language and 6 in cryosleep) you would probably be annoyed too. The only reason Jack is able to do what he does, is because Grace's (Weaver's character) team has been able to set up the infrastructure. Take them out of the equation, and you would have a very different story.

[quote name='c0rnpwn']Security were meatheads -- again stereotypical.[/QUOTE]
I would imagine that when you hire ex-military for a 6 year trip to play security guard on another planet, you are probably not getting the socially adjusted ones.

Just some thoughts though.

[quote name='Nohbdy']Giant glaring plothole, anyone?



http://hradzka.livejournal.com/378981.html[/QUOTE]


I am a little confused here, in the movie they clearly state that the deposit under the Home-Tree is the largest within 200 kliks (not sure why you would limit that but maybe they did not pay the surveyor) and the example of the rock from the table shows a chunk that big being levitated by the coaster. Which would seem to indicate it take a small amount of energy to levitate the material. Combine that with the fact that we already have proof of the existence of humans at the Floating Mountains and I come up with really one solution, the amount is insignificant compared to the cost to mine. I mean, you are talking about mining a floating rock, and you are looking to remove the reason it is able to float. But, lets entertain that for a moment, how do you do it?

1)Do you attempt to move the rock out of the field, causing it to crash to the planet's surface? (assuming the fields change, which is a reasonable assumption, since the Home-tree is not floating) How do you move it? Once it crashes, what is the expense for searching and discovering where your precious rock went? What does that mean to the potential colonization in the future, not to mention the smaller deposits you have just buried on the falling rock. - Seems really illogical when I know there is a large deposit over there underneath a tree with natives I do not care about.

2)Do you try to mine and determine how much you can take out while causing a controlled descent. Great plan, will it take longer then 3 months? What are the risks? (Outside of the obvious one, the natives attacking because you are disturbing the home of their flying beasts) In controlling the descent, that means I need to start removing pieces of this floating rock, not related to the mineral, assuming the controlled descent is possible.

3) Only mine enough that it has no real impact on the environment.
 
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They just recently created a device that made a mouse experience a 0gravity on earth. Could they not in the future, figure out a way to make a "trophy" holder - hold up a piece of rock?

And how do these people claim to know every single sediment type on the Pandora planet? Maybe, there is another type of rock that floats that is not valuable?

Christ... why even bother.
 
I'm with CoffeeEdge. The story wasn't the most original but I didn't really care because everything was so well done. There weren't really any plot holes and although the characters fit into standard archetypes the writing was very well done and I still ended up liking most of them. And yeah I loved this movie. It has actually made me kind of depressed that real life isn't as exciting. Just leaving the world itself left me feeling very bittersweet.
 
[quote name='kilm']Sounds like you're just complaining about your own slow reading speed, inefficient use of the scroll wheel, etc.[/QUOTE]

Do you read this shit before you click "Submit Reply"?


OT: I am seeing this in IMAX 3D today at 2:30. I am glad my first viewing will be the best possible experience and I do have high hopes in general for this.
 
People that keep saying that the story is not original sure it wasn't but you have other movies that take something from another one. Also Cameron wrote this movie back when he started to film Titanic. So the script and his version of the story is about 10 years old.
 
[quote name='sendme']People that keep saying that the story is not original sure it wasn't but you have other movies that take something from another one. Also Cameron wrote this movie back when he started to film Titanic. So the script and his version of the story is about 10 years old.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much all the movies he ripped off are even older than that.
 
The movie was really really good. There were only two things that took a little away for me (and it's not a lot, but worth mentioning)

1.) Just about every key event in this movie is sadly predictable. BUT still really enjoyable.

2.) The 3-D glasses in my theater has scratches on the lens. UGH! It seriously bothered me. I had to randomly remove them to adjust my eyes.

I'm SO glad they didn't
extend the sex scene to make it as weird as the one in The Matrix Reloaded. That would have been REALLY awkward.

I can def see Cameron winning many awards for this movie and I hope it breaks many many records. The entire cast and crew for this movie deserves it.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Do you read this shit before you click "Submit Reply"?


OT: I am seeing this in IMAX 3D today at 2:30. I am glad my first viewing will be the best possible experience and I do have high hopes in general for this.[/QUOTE]


Didnt go :( the weather here is REALLY bad....we are in a blizzard warning until friday...oh well
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']What?! Malik hasn't seen it either? The two biggest opponents of the movie were the two that didn't even see it. Sweet Xmas Baby balls![/QUOTE]

wtf
 
Just came back from seeing this in 3D, and WOW! Fantastic movie, even with all the holes. The CG was great, the characters were good, though the plot was predicable and some of the dialogue was meh I'm going to say that it's my favorite movie this year, unless Sherlock Holmes beats it (you never know).
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']What?! Malik hasn't seen it either? The two biggest opponents of the movie were the two that didn't even see it. Sweet Xmas Baby balls![/QUOTE]


im not an opponent of the movie. never said i was. i am an opponent of people who consider pretty movies that lack substance to be good. I am looking forward to this movie. I have just voiced that I hope this isnt like Transformers 2 - pretty CG and a lackluster story. Don't put words in my mouth and/or learn to read.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Do you read this shit before you click "Submit Reply"?[/QUOTE]

lolumad. Boo hoo. People like a movie, enthusiastic about it, and you can't be bothered to read through 1-2 lines of text per post. Go cry to your mother.

[quote name='Malik112099']Transformers 2 had great CG but the movie itself was shit. i expect the same from Avatar. I visual feast with no substance. A lot of you confuse good visuals with good movies.[/QUOTE]

LoL. You ever read the shit you type? Clearly not.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']i am an opponent of people who consider pretty movies that lack substance to be good.[/QUOTE]

Wow, man. It's pretty impressively pretentious and self-important to consider yourself an "opponent" of something like that, even by my standards.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Wow, man. It's pretty impressively pretentious and self-important to consider yourself an "opponent" of something like that, even by my standards.[/QUOTE]
Your standards must be higher than mine. I'm an opponent of whoever the fuck keeps throwing his rice out in the sink. Throw it in the garbage, asshole! Or, hey - try composting it! We have a garden, you know!
 
[quote name='Malik112099']wow..it is like the sony defense force in here...no rationalizing with people acting like this over a movie with good CG[/QUOTE]


No, we just really don't need anyone being a dick about "waah waah you plebeian sheeple are so stupid enjoying movies that aren't art cinema ;___; don't you know that you're not allowed to enjoy a movie unless it's on at LEAST a dramatic par with perhaps Raging Bull, and also you SHOULD ALL BE fuckING GASSED FOR BEING SO DUMB AND ENJOYING A MOVIE WITH STUNNING VISUALS (because similar to videogames, VISUALS ACCOUNT FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN MOVIES, and actually, the better the visuals, the more brutally the movie on the whole must be judged) AND AN ACCESSIBLE PLOT" because seriously, what the fuck is that trying to prove?

Take it to IMDb, dude.
 
This movie was a decent enough popcorn movie, though, at $12.50 that's pushing it. The colonel was the best character and the scenes with him were the most engaging. I would not call this movie a masterpiece given how run of the mill the story is(specifically in the way it is told). Compared to other popcorn flicks this year like Transformers 2(big pile of shit), I guess it could look like a masterpiece.
 
I really enjoyed this movie. The plot was kind of predictable, but it was told in a good way. I didn't see many movies this year, but I would rank it in the top.

1. District 9
2. Watchmen
3. Avatar
4. Terminator Salvation
5. Land of the Lost (had a free ticket)
 
[quote name='erehwon']I really enjoyed this movie. The plot was kind of predictable, but it was told in a good way. I didn't see many movies this year, but I would rank it in the top.

1. District 9
2. Watchmen
3. Avatar
4. Terminator Salvation
5. Land of the Lost (had a free ticket)[/QUOTE]
Ah crap, I thought Watchmen came out in late 2008. In that case, it is not my favorite movie this year, but still very good (I enjoyed it more than District 9)
 
What an utter disappointment. It's essentially a dumbed down dances with wolves with Peter Jackson's King Kong extravagance treatment. Good visuals but that's about it. The blatant Indian culture completely ruined any sense of fascination with the alien race. And WTF is with the treason part? Way to go James Cameron for reinforcing the slander that left wing tree huggers are American hating traitors.
 
I think Avatar is great not because of the 3D or CG, but simply for its mythology, world, and score.

I'm kind of confused when I see people say this is the best thing they've ever seen, however---I went to the IMAX 3D show today at NYC's Lincoln Loews, and maybe I was expecting more out of IMAX, but the screen didn't even seem big to me, and while the 3D was effective, a lot of things looked soft and/or glossed over.
 
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