The Boycott Circuit City Thread

[quote name='godsantagonist']this is sooooooooo amusing. how many personas on here are of an age to even vote, and yet they feel "compelled to boycott to save their brethren"? this is just like the vitriolic criticism of xbscene by neogaf for using their pics of opened 360's, but worse. worse in that the stolen material is copyrighted. cag would protect their name, podcasts, images and the people would jump on the bandwagon for cag. why not circuit city?

this is a new electronic age that the laws of the past weren't made for. this is new territory for everyone and circuit city is just protecting their own. again, this problem has been broached years ago with fatwallet. the pictures are copyrighted!

i hope that peaceful accords can be reached. also, hopefully a workaround can occur. perhaps just items listed with price but in alphabetical order, not the ad order.

ps it is rumored that sony, et al. are behind this...circuit city is bowing to pressure also.[/quote]
If this is all over copyright as you say then Circuit City would have no case. What speedy posted of their ads can be considered "fair use" and therefore CC would have no case. However this is not about that. This is about Circuit City being mad at speedy for "lost sales."
Also if you do not stick up for anyone then you will not have anyone help you in your time of need.

[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Yes, it is funny to witness all of this saber-rattling. This "boycott" will be a matter of convenience for most - when a deal comes out that has CC with the lowest price, many will still be there at CC with cash in hand.[/quote]

Some people may do that but I will not and I'm sure other people will not either.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']
Some people may do that but I will not and I'm sure other people will not either.[/quote]

I won't. My CC is something like a warehouse outlet. Don't even know if it's anything besides employees. Haven't shopped there since Feb 2004.
 
On reflection, I'm pretty sure this action is orchestrated by Sony (rather then CC)

Hopefully CC is just going through the paces to look busy, and will let the matter quietly drop.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']If this is all over copyright as you say then Circuit City would have no case. What speedy posted of their ads can be considered "fair use" and therefore CC would have no case. However this is not about that. This is about Circuit City being mad at speedy for "lost sales."
Also if you do not stick up for anyone then you will not have anyone help you in your time of need.[/QUOTE]


incorrect, but thank you for playing (jk). fair use of the information, perhaps, but the ad with pics, arrangement, etc, etc. is not. at least 2-3 years ago. again, i am basing this on what happened to fw and the black friday ads. it might have changed, or been wrong. we cannot know until someone involved speaks to the charge(s) levied. and that probably won't happen for a while, if ever. i am not a legal adviser, but trying to give a different perspective.
 
Circuit City isn't a good electronic store period. Best Buy has way better employee's. I just plain hate the feeling of going into circuit city all the employee's are in one corner talking. What kind of service is that? Circuit City is already in bad shape so even if we don't have THAT much of an impact they will still be slightly affected and thats all that matters. Oh yea and fuck circuit city.
 
[quote name='godsantagonist']incorrect, but thank you for playing (jk). fair use of the information, perhaps, but the ad with pics, arrangement, etc, etc. is not. at least 2-3 years ago. again, i am basing this on what happened to fw and the black friday ads. it might have changed, or been wrong. we cannot know until someone involved speaks to the charge(s) levied. and that probably won't happen for a while, if ever. i am not a legal adviser, but trying to give a different perspective.[/quote]

But he didn't post pic or the arrangement. 2 or so pages out of a 30+ page ad can be considered "fair use." However even direct copies of the pages can be "fair use" depending on the situation.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']But he didn't post pic or the arrangement. 2 or so pages out of a 30+ page ad can be considered "fair use." However even direct copies of the pages can be "fair use" depending on the situation.[/QUOTE]

well, again, we will probably never know. i guess we'll see if speedy has a good enough legal fund to fight "fair use".

it would probably be better to donate to a defense fund than to boycott circuit city. a "win" in the leagal system will go a lot farther than the boycott and really hurt circuit city, sony, et al.
 
[quote name='godsantagonist']well, again, we will probably never know. i guess we'll see if speedy has a good enough legal fund to fight "fair use".

it would probably be better to donate to a defense fund than to boycott circuit city. a "win" in the leagal system will go a lot farther than the boycott and really hurt circuit city, sony, et al.[/quote]

If enough letters clog this circuit city email address (all threatening to boycott the store pending the resolution of this case), we can at least speed the process along.

Please, take 2 minutes out of your day and write a letter to CC. You owe Speedy that much.

So please, email [email protected] !!!
 
I'm sure Speedy and/or Cheapy have already done so, but if not the EFF Electronic Freedom Foundation needs to be notified. I'm sure this is a situation/case they would be interested in investigating and assisting with any legal related issues and defense.
 
[quote name='SteveDaWonder']I really honestly think unless CheapyD and/or Speedy call for a boycott, or think it would be a good idea, we shouldn't.[/quote]

Not everyone needs to boycott. But everyone should write a letter to CC explaining their support of Speedy and their dislike of CC's actions.
 
[quote name='godsantagonist']well, again, we will probably never know. i guess we'll see if speedy has a good enough legal fund to fight "fair use".

it would probably be better to donate to a defense fund than to boycott circuit city. a "win" in the leagal system will go a lot farther than the boycott and really hurt circuit city, sony, et al.[/quote]

Even still, he took what would be considered 'inside information' (ad details weeks/months in advance) and distributed to the public.

Fair use wouldn't apply to information not meant to be made public until the date designated by the ad.
 
I just don't see how you can be mad at CC. I don't want speedy to get in trouble, but he was doing something wrong, and they finally caught on. That is why he was a CAG hero - He knew the risks and did it anyway. Boycotting CC or getting all pissy because MS or Sony is somehow behind it (and bravo for them for not wanting every damn announcement they have spoiled weeks in advance ...) doesn't help anything.
 
All speedy really needs to do from this point on to ensure they can't come after him is to list perhaps come up with a code for each company, or a form of disclaimer. Then simply list items by category, say alphabetically, or whatnot, and absolutely no pics of the ads.

One method another site used during the Black Friday fiasco a couple years ago was to make up a parody name of the company that was threatening legal action.

Say, call Circuit City "Chip Town", Best Buy "Good Price", and Target "Bullseye"

Then just say something like "I had a dream about a sale at Bullseye, and in the dream, the following were the sale prices:

Game X $40
DVD Y $10 etc.

Hell, he could just put a disclaimer saying "I am psychic, here is what I see for pricing for the week of September X"
 
[quote name='sp00ge']Even still, he took what would be considered 'inside information' (ad details weeks/months in advance) and distributed to the public.

Fair use wouldn't apply to information not meant to be made public until the date designated by the ad.[/quote]

Fair use could still apply on that. However circuit city could try to sue speedy for damages from loss of sales or something else.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Fair use could still apply on that. However circuit city could try to sue speedy for damages from loss of sales or something else.[/QUOTE]

#4 says it all...
from http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html :

"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the
reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1.the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission."


but there may be ways to post information based upon this:
"Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work."

again, like the link suggests, seek an attorney if you are unsure. i am posting for enlightenment, not as advice.
 
[quote name='SteveDaWonder']I really honestly think unless CheapyD and/or Speedy call for a boycott, or think it would be a good idea, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]

I've got a ton of respect for Cheapy and appreciate what Speedy does for this site, but if we chose to boycott CC over this issue (or any issue for that matter) it's really up to us, the consumer.

If Cheapy doesn't feel like this boycott is in the site's best interest given the circumstances he could (and hopefully would) lock the thread, delete it, and make a request not to have a similar thread started up.

With approval or without approval, CC will not be getting my business until this is dropped, and even then they may not get business from me because of other issues/complaints I have.
 
[quote name='godsantagonist']#4 says it all...
from http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html :

"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the
reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1.the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission."


but there may be ways to post information based upon this:
"Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work."

again, like the link suggests, seek an attorney if you are unsure. i am posting for enlightenment, not as advice.[/quote]
The ad has no market value so therefore fair use can apply. Ultimatly though the interpetation falls into a judge or jury's hands.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Fair use could still apply on that. However circuit city could try to sue speedy for damages from loss of sales or something else.[/quote]

To sue him for loss of sales, they would have to prove the loss os a specific $ amount due to people waiting to buy somethng because they knew it was going to go on sale. Which is impossible since sales by their very nature are designed to bring shoppers into the store to buy things they might otherwise not have. And beyond that, if we didn't know that it was going to be on sale, and bought it a week early, we could just take it back in and get the difference back anyway. So CC has actually gained from the fact that we knew to wait and buy it there, rather than buy it earlier and possibly somewhere else.
 
Does anyone else remember speedy not saying what the big announcement was until a few other sites started dropping the ball? I believe he said a big surprise come 'wednesday' or something like that but when a few other sites reported it with ads he caved and told everyone. (I know this is out of the bounds of the thread but...)
 
I think he could certainly argue the news reporting exception under the statute. Also point out a small portion of the ad as a whole was reported, no pictures, etc. That would be a fun case to try.

Good luck on Circuit City being able to prove damages too. Even if they succeed on the merits, that could be one of those infamous $1 verdicts.

I can see this scenario popping in law school classes in the coming years.
 
Heres the problem Everyone bought out all the playstation 3's before they had the ad so when they had the ad they were out of stock. So it makes it look like false advertising and people complained. Second thing it gave microsoft a heads up.
So that's why you had the Xbox price drop. It was sopouse to be a suprise and catch microsoft off guard,
Circuit City doesnt want this to happen again. There's no tolerance for leakage of this in this world.
So They putting a stop to this.
You got to look for the consumer stand point. They see the ad and go to the store and don't see the product because its been sold out the week before in case with playstation 3.
My friend works at Circuit City and they deal with Fake 40$ coupons price matches rude customers. Its gotta stop and hes has to tell customers no thats not right..
In the end go to the place that gave you better service.
In the end We can boycott every place Walmart, Best Buy, Target, but in todays society There's no reason for people to boycott if you werent affected..
So Circuit City is done with ads that are leaked and its gotta stop at some point!
Now people want to say Circuit City is the bad one???
Give me a break
They advertise on the Cheap ass gamer only to have people leak info. So look at it from Circuit CItys point of view
 
[quote name='adidas']
So look at it from Circuit CItys point of view[/QUOTE]

Alright, I looked at it from Circuit City's point of view and it didn't do anything to change my position on this matter and other complaints I have against them - until something changes over there (dropping this case against Speedy would be a good first start) they won't be getting any more of my business.

Awesome grammar and formatting in your post, by the way.
 
[quote name='adidas']Heres the problem Everyone bought out all the playstation 3's before they had the ad so when they had the ad they were out of stock. So it makes it look like false advertising and people complained. Second thing it gave microsoft a heads up.
So that's why you had the Xbox price drop. It was sopouse to be a suprise and catch microsoft off guard,
[/quote]

First of all, I've been in retail a long time, and it is common practice to hold back merchandise for an upcoming ad to guarantee that it is in stock when the ad breaks. So if CC sold them all before the ad broke, that's their own damn fault.

Second of all, it would be foolish to assume that Microsoft didn't know about the price drop well before it happened. These things are planned months or more in advance! I've seen on several occasions when competing systems dropped on the same day! The president of Sony didn't wake up one day and say "Hey, I think I'll lower the price of the PS3 today to catch Microsoft off guard. Now for my morning bowl of Cheerios. Yippee!".

Thirdly, assuming that Speedy is a CC employee, the most that CC can due to him is fire him for violating his contract. He broke no actual laws. But if all the CAGs want to band together and boycot CC for their treatment of this incident, not to mention their flimsy attempt to get Speedy's identity from Cheapy D, then it is certainly their right to do so. And I applaud them and join them for sticking up for a fellow member of this community. Besides, we're CAGs...we can still take advantage of CC's sales by PGing them elsewhere!

Oh, and by the way, the CC in my area has lousy customer service and generally unknowledgable employees, but I would still go in there for some of the sales. Used to anyway...
 
[quote name='adidas']Heres the problem Everyone bought out all the playstation 3's before they had the ad so when they had the ad they were out of stock. So it makes it look like false advertising and people complained. Second thing it gave microsoft a heads up.
So that's why you had the Xbox price drop. It was sopouse to be a suprise and catch microsoft off guard,
Circuit City doesnt want this to happen again. There's no tolerance for leakage of this in this world.
So They putting a stop to this.
You got to look for the consumer stand point. They see the ad and go to the store and don't see the product because its been sold out the week before in case with playstation 3.
My friend works at Circuit City and they deal with Fake 40$ coupons price matches rude customers. Its gotta stop and hes has to tell customers no thats not right..
In the end go to the place that gave you better service.
In the end We can boycott every place Walmart, Best Buy, Target, but in todays society There's no reason for people to boycott if you werent affected..
So Circuit City is done with ads that are leaked and its gotta stop at some point!
Now people want to say Circuit City is the bad one???
Give me a break
They advertise on the Cheap ass gamer only to have people leak info. So look at it from Circuit CItys point of view[/quote]

If it's so 'tough' for Circuit City, they can do one thing: Not have their weekly circular ads. It'll reduce their costs and reduce their headaches. Sure, they'll lose sales and revenues.

I still don't understand how the leak is bad from a business standpoint. Maybe intellectual property or 'fair use,' but not from a business standpoint. If more people found out about the ad a week before it was released, people come in and want to buy a PS3 and they buy a PS3, then isn't that a good thing? What is the problem?

I'm starting to wonder if CC employees were complaining to CC when the ad was leaked. They have customers coming in asking about the PS3 price drop and trying to buy it right then and there. As we know, CC got rid of about 3400 employees, so morale may just be a little low. CC employees don't want to work any harder than they have to (judging by most people's experiences with their stores), so they say stuff like "you weren't suppose to find out about that" to those customers asking about the PS3 price drop and prevent the sale even though it would mean business and money. The customers then leave and go to Best Buy, who doesn't care and sell them the products anyway. The CC employees then complain to CC and claiming to do something about the ad leak or there wouldn't be any CC store employees any longer. CC then see the loss of business and go "OMG, we're losing $$$$! Why?" The employees say, "It's because of the ad getting out early." The question is then asked, "Who leaked the ad?" even though it may be their employees' fault or CC's fault for the loss of business.

If supplies are low according to your argument, wouldn't that mean *gasp* it's CC's fault for not planning/anticipating consumer demand? And I guess I should feel sorry for them if there are sold out and they have to spend a few grand to order more PS3's to sell. Silly me for thinking the point of a business is to make money regardless of whether there are ad leaks or not.
 
I don't think a boycott is necessary at all. I won't be shopping there as much naturally, since now I don't know the deals ahead of time, but a full-on boycott is not what is needed to show the internet community's right and/or reason.

That doesn't mean I don't support speedy, just that I don't think it made the world stop turning and made me turn to activism.
 
[quote name='SilverPaw750']I don't think a boycott is necessary at all. I won't be shopping there as much naturally, since now I don't know the deals ahead of time, but a full-on boycott is not what is needed to show the internet community's right and/or reason.

That doesn't mean I don't support speedy, just that I don't think it made the world stop turning and made me turn to activism.[/quote]

Although I appreciate the exchange of ideas as to whether a boycott is necessary or not, I'd like to remind you all that the point (or spirit) of this thread is to make our voice heard to Circuit City. If boycotting is not the right method, what is? Let's be pro-active and think of solutions (rather than just debate the one solution that has been proposed).

1) Letter-writing? Then try:
George Danny Clark
Executive Vice President & President of Circuit City-Retail Stores
c/o Circuit City Corporate Office
9950 Mayland Drive
Richmond, VA 23233
2) E-mailing? (Try [email protected] :whistle2:$)
3) Exposure to the media?
Try: [email protected] or [email protected]
4) Legal fund?

It's so easy to sit at home, within the comfort of an annonymous avatar, without taking a pro-active stance. If you choose not to boycott (which is understandable), at least think of a way you can contribute to this whole debacle.
 
[quote name='Terabyte7']Thirdly, assuming that Speedy is a CC employee, the most that CC can due to him is fire him for violating his contract. He broke no actual laws. But if all the CAGs want to band together and boycot CC for their treatment of this incident, not to mention their flimsy attempt to get Speedy's identity from Cheapy D, then it is certainly their right to do so. And I applaud them and join them for sticking up for a fellow member of this community. Besides, we're CAGs...we can still take advantage of CC's sales by PGing them elsewhere![/quote]

I'm fairly certain Speedy doesn't work for CC. I have a few ideas about his employment but I'll keep them to myself. I don't want to add to his troubles.
 
Hmm. No one here can tell me why it is so wrong for a company to not want it's ads to be revealed to the public before a set date. No matter if Speedy is your brotheren (sp) or not, he's in the wrong. Doens't matter if it's bad for business or not, I'm positive that the ads are released on Sunday for a reason and they have a right to have them seen by the public when they want. And I don't want to see CAG go down for his actions. I want them to find him and do what they need to do, so CAG can't catch the flak. Oh, and about how CC should try to make it so this information isn't leaked instead of getting on Speedy for this...Speedy can easily pass the buck by pointing them to his sources. Not hard.
 
It's not so simple that Speedy is wrong. Because a company doesn't want something known does not mean it is wrong to release that information. If CC had evidence that business was harmed by the early posting of ads they may have a claim, but because they offer the 30 day price match and the ads are not posted over 30 days in advance they can't reasonably make any substantial claim for damages.

The only real issue I can see is that Sony probably had the companies sign statements that they would not announce the price drop early, and Speedy effectively caused CC to violate that contract. Even in this case the responsibility is not with Speedy because he would not have been bound by the contract, and CC must have known that the ads are printed so many weeks in advance and the risks that printing the price drop so early would entail.

Unless it turns out that Speedy works for these companies, I have a hard time seeing CCs logic (I know when I worked for target we were forbidden from revealing sales early, not that I knew of any).
 
[quote name='happy']It's not so simple that Speedy is wrong. Because a company doesn't want something known does not mean it is wrong to release that information. If CC had evidence that business was harmed by the early posting of ads they may have a claim, but because they offer the 30 day price match and the ads are not posted over 30 days in advance they can't reasonably make any substantial claim for damages.

The only real issue I can see is that Sony probably had the companies sign statements that they would not announce the price drop early, and Speedy effectively caused CC to violate that contract. Even in this case the responsibility is not with Speedy because he would not have been bound by the contract, and CC must have known that the ads are printed so many weeks in advance and the risks that printing the price drop so early would entail.

Unless it turns out that Speedy works for these companies, I have a hard time seeing CCs logic (I know when I worked for target we were forbidden from revealing sales early, not that I knew of any).[/quote]

The printing companies and distribution outlets (newspapers, etc) are also bound by this privacy/no-leak clause, not just CC.

No matter where the ads originated from, someone along the chain is to be held liable. If he won't give up his source, he can potentially be held liable, not that he definitely will be.

I know this for a fact about outlets. I used to be a production supervisor for the Desert Sun in Palm Springs, and we had to sign an agreement to not distribute or share information on uncirculated sales. I admit that I took ads from time-to-time, but they were for my own personal use, so I knew what sales were upcoming. Had I distributed and got caught, I would've been held liable.
 
[quote name='Korben']...They had an "available by 2pm" guarantee on the Boogie game for the Wii, the game was not available, the time was 6pm on the release date, and they didn't want to honor the $20 gift card, I had to talk to a manager.[/quote]
Some dirt on CC. I just found out that despite the gift card guarantee after at least the first day of release the staff will lie to customers about the game not being recieved in stock and just say they sold out. Isn't that somehow illegal?
 
I've been reading up on this, and I'm sorry that Circuit City is doing this to these people. I sure hope my company doesn't do this stuff to me.

I hope to be able to bring you ads for my company in advance to make up for the lack of CC ads. I think you'll find our prices are very competitive with theirs.
 
[quote name='Spatula_City']I've been reading up on this, and I'm sorry that Circuit City is doing this to these people. I sure hope my company doesn't do this stuff to me.

I hope to be able to bring you ads for my company in advance to make up for the lack of CC ads. I think you'll find our prices are very competitive with theirs.[/quote]

Your company being...what? Crazy Ray's Electronics Extravaganza? More info, less cloak and dagger.
 
[quote name='neocisco']Your company being...what? Crazy Ray's Electronics Extravaganza? More info, less cloak and dagger.[/quote]

I predict........ incoming spam!
 
[quote name='neocisco']Your company being...what? Crazy Ray's Electronics Extravaganza? More info, less cloak and dagger.[/quote]

Judging by the guy's user name, it is most likely Spatula City. They like spatulas so much, they bought the company!
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']
Good luck Speedy... just don't give up on us![/quote]

I never have although there are some who now see fit to vilify me as some mad criminal mastermind.

A Cease & Decist would have worked rather nicely in this instance but CC is "demanding" a witch-burning on this one.

And lest we forget, I had been doing this reporting type thing for 2 years with none of the Big 3 complaining.

It's bad enough that I have to move. :cry:
 
[quote name='speedy1961']I never have although there are some who now see fit to vilify me as some mad criminal mastermind.

A Cease & Decist would have worked rather nicely in this instance but CC is "demanding" a witch-burning on this one.

And lest we forget, I had been doing this reporting type thing for 2 years with none of the Big 3 complaining.

It's bad enough that I have to move. :([/QUOTE]

Glad to see you're still here. Add me to AIM when you get a chance.
 
I got an e-mail from "Customer Care Service" after I complained to Circuit City on the CC website. Basically telling me 'they can't comment on pending litigation" and how they're focused on their 'shareholders' (or lack thereof) for the company. I imagine a LOT of people have been complaining to them to warrant a comment, keep it up!
 
[quote name='mail5009645']They're really just as shitty as best buy. If only there was a decent electronics shop here in the states! :roll:[/quote]

i thought it was called Frys or Meijers that we dont have up in the Northeast
 
i returned the tv i bought at CC after reading this thread, then went to best buy and got the thing (not on sale) for cheaper. fuck CC man thats a load of shit
 
Not boycotting, simply because I don't shop there to begin with. After going to their hiring session and them pawning off the "you don't have to know anything about the product, just sell it" speech, I decided then not to give them any of my money. Plus the ones here never have anything worthwhile anyway.
 
Shitty as Best Buy? Well Best Buy has always been great to me. Heck I brought a iPod and got a 3 year warranty; good thing too because I had to have it replaced 3 times because I accidentally left them in my pants.....and they went throught the wash...in fact the last time I got it replaced they gave ME money because the price of the 2gb version had dropped!


Anyways the circuit city here is small dirty and dingy and never been there once in me life.
 
Hmm, I in know way support this cause, however I'd like to request a traditional " Calvin peeing on logo of company " ( in this case circuit city ) avatar or signature if anyone can make it.
 
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