The 'Growing' Barry Bonds

diggityjones

diggityjones

CAGiversary!
Guys, check out this link. ESPN provided a link to photos from each of his seasons complete with stats for each year at the bottom.

You can definitely see the physical difference of when he stated taking 'roids. His batting average was always pretty good with the exception of a few years at the begining. His homers were equal to many of the big sluggers of his era. Until he starts 'roiding. You'll see a sudden spike in his average and his homers.

Check it out: http://espn.go.com/mlb/gallery/19379070.html
 
That last photo is great. It really does make you wonder how these players will be remembered. And if down the road they will have medical problems.
 
His jump just isn't contributed to steroids..watch tape of him before and now and you will see how he has become the most disciplined hitter I have seen in my life.

Steroids or not, the man is still a great hitter.
 
[quote name='TheRaven']His jump just isn't contributed to steroids..watch tape of him before and now and you will see how he has become the most disciplined hitter I have seen in my life.

Steroids or not, the man is still a great hitter.[/quote]
Doesn't matter. Steroids make him a cheater and invalidate everything he's done since he started taking them. He will always be Bonds*.

He needs to be banned from baseball. He's done more to compromise the integrity of the game than Pete Rose and Joe Jackson put together.

(I love this picture btw)
giambi.jpg
 
Too bad they don't have pictures of his skull circumference. His head has ballooned in the past few years, which is a known side-effect of steroids and human growth hormones. It reminds me of the Simpsons where Ken Griffey Jr. kept drinking the brain and nerve tonic.

Barry Bonds skull timeline:

1983: Barry Bonds skull measures at a modest 22" in circumference.
03-24_bonds_front%20copy.jpg


2003: Bonds skull mysteriously expands to 26"
bonds0115.jpg


2010 (projected): 39"
barry_bonds_bh_th.jpg


I hope he gets the asterisk in the record book. I'm interested to see how this will develop. Pete Rose's off-field and managerial gambling banished him from the Hall of Fame. If it's proven that Bonds has cheated for the most productive part of his career then I believe Bonds should suffer the same fate as Rose.
 
Have you guys seen how skinny Big Mac was when he came into the league and how big he was when he retired. Drastic change. Even though he did hit 49 his 1st season. I wonder if he was taking more than just andro.
 
There also has been an increased emphasis on hitting the gym in the past 20 years. Everyone has bulked up over the years
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']There also has been an increased emphasis on hitting the gym in the past 20 years. Everyone has bulked up over the years[/quote]

There's no doubt that today's professional athletes are bigger than they were 20 years ago. In fact, I often find it amusing to turn on ESPN Classic and watch a ballgame from the 70s or 80s, because the players look like normal people, not hulking muscleheads. There's also no doubt that personal trainers and more robust workout regiments have produced more highly tuned athletes. However, that said, no matter how much time you spend in the gym, your skull will not expand. Skull expansion is a known side-effect of human growth hormones and steroids.
 
Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what.

Baseball and its fans have tolerated this kind of behavior for a long time so what makes you think that they are suddenly going to turn on juiced up players?

The other day on ESPN they asked a bunch of hall of fame voters if they would still vote bonds into the hall of fame if he used roids, and guess what their answer was?
 
11-12 seems to be a big difference to me...just look at the difference in his face size....now take a look under the image for the stats...

steroids work fast...he may not have gotten the results he wanted or maybe he switched to a new trainer...he may not have known he was taking steroids but that doesn't mean it is ok then...

I have ALWAYS thought he was on steroids...some of these guys are just too damn big
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.[/quote]

Maybe love is too strong a word, but for every person that hates him (like me), there is one that likes him and will overlook whatever he does.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what.

Baseball and its fans have tolerated this kind of behavior for a long time so what makes you think that they are suddenly going to turn on juiced up players?

The other day on ESPN they asked a bunch of hall of fame voters if they would still vote bonds into the hall of fame if he used roids, and guess what their answer was?[/quote]

With or without steroids I believe he was a Hall of Famer, but there is no doubt in my mind that the steroids turned what used to be a flyout to the warning track into a homerun.
Also while his statement may have been clever in avoiding an admission to steroid use, what if there is evidence that contradicts this later and opens him up to perjury?
 
I like how everyone is jumping all over the athletes for that testimony. You people do realize that Grand Jury testimony is supposed to be private. I wish they could shut down the Chronicle for it's ILLEGAL reporting.
 
[quote name='Free Artest']I like how everyone is jumping all over the athletes for that testimony. You people do realize that Grand Jury testimony is supposed to be private. I wish they could shut down the Chronicle for it's ILLEGAL reporting.[/quote]

And we are all crying for these poor athletes.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.[/quote]
Crossroads? I wouldn't say that, most people love him or hate him, thats how it'll always be, but maybe this could be a turning point for those who are indifferent. I hate him for his steroid use and his prima donna, I'm Bigger Than The Game attitude. I saw him play a few times this year, he doesn't even try in the field or on the basepaths. He's lazy. He just tries to hit home runs and doesn't care about anything else. Do you guys remember his 73* home run season? He was a free agent after that, and guess what? Nobody wanted him. Theres a reason for that. He didn't take a "hometown discount" because he loves the Giants. Ask Pittsburgh about that.

I hope Bonds is banned from baseball for life. He is the biggest scandal, biggest stain, biggest cancer on our greatest game.
(The Giambi's, Sheffield, Brown, etc should get 1-year bans minimum)

[quote name='johnnyoski']Also while his statement may have been clever in avoiding an admission to steroid use, what if there is evidence that contradicts this later and opens him up to perjury?[/quote]
It would need to be proven that he knowingly did it. It is difficult, but not impossible, if others would testify against him. The thing is, the testimony of the players was supposed to be sealed. It won't be public record unless they're charged with perjury, then whatever they said is opened up. In Jason Giambi's case, the Yankees can't really use his testimony to terminate his contract since its sealed, even though its out there. But if he was charged with perjury, it gets opened up, and then they can do it.

[quote name='Free Artest']I like how everyone is jumping all over the athletes for that testimony. You people do realize that Grand Jury testimony is supposed to be private. I wish they could shut down the Chronicle for it's ILLEGAL reporting.[/quote]
Theres nothing illegal about what the Chronicle is doing. The leaks are illegal, yes. But the person that leaks the info is solely responsible. Once its leaked to you, you can report it if you want to, legally. You're not bound by any confidentiality, the leaker was.
 
Bonds still would be a Hall of Fame calibre player regardless of taking steroids, and he will definitely voted in on this if nothing else. Some of his gain in size has to be attributed to working out and training hard. It is kinda funny that his head noticeably looks bigger. It is sad in a way that Bonds is being targeted the most in all of this, I guess its his payback for being a jerk to the media his whole career. Players have obviously been getting huge lately, with Canseco and Caminiti even admitting steroid use. I'm sure many other players of this era are also heavily into roids. For example, does anyone remember Dante Bichetter putting on 40 pounds of muscle in one offseason (about 4-5 months) in the late 90's, with other players having similar gains. How did this not raise any red flags to anyone?

You know, I'm really not sure why some of these players feel such a need to juice. Take McGwire, he hit 49 homers his rookie year. Although he was much bigger than the average person naturally, he got huge a few years later, and also battled injuries for several years. Was it really worth it for him to get so big and have a couple monster years, while missing a ton of time with injuries and having his body basically break down towards the end of his career?. You have to assume he could have hit 50 or more several times at the same size he was in his rookie year.
 
[quote name='dafoomie'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.[/quote]
Crossroads? I wouldn't say that, most people love him or hate him, thats how it'll always be, but maybe this could be a turning point for those who are indifferent. I hate him for his steroid use and his prima donna, I'm Bigger Than The Game attitude. I saw him play a few times this year, he doesn't even try in the field or on the basepaths. He's lazy. He just tries to hit home runs and doesn't care about anything else. Do you guys remember his 73* home run season? He was a free agent after that, and guess what? Nobody wanted him. Theres a reason for that. He didn't take a "hometown discount" because he loves the Giants. Ask Pittsburgh about that.

I hope Bonds is banned from baseball for life. He is the biggest scandal, biggest stain, biggest cancer on our greatest game.
(The Giambi's, Sheffield, Brown, etc should get 1-year bans minimum)

[quote name='johnnyoski']Also while his statement may have been clever in avoiding an admission to steroid use, what if there is evidence that contradicts this later and opens him up to perjury?[/quote]
It would need to be proven that he knowingly did it. It is difficult, but not impossible, if others would testify against him. The thing is, the testimony of the players was supposed to be sealed. It won't be public record unless they're charged with perjury, then whatever they said is opened up. In Jason Giambi's case, the Yankees can't really use his testimony to terminate his contract since its sealed, even though its out there. But if he was charged with perjury, it gets opened up, and then they can do it.

[quote name='Free Artest']I like how everyone is jumping all over the athletes for that testimony. You people do realize that Grand Jury testimony is supposed to be private. I wish they could shut down the Chronicle for it's ILLEGAL reporting.[/quote]
Theres nothing illegal about what the Chronicle is doing. The leaks are illegal, yes. But the person that leaks the info is solely responsible. Once its leaked to you, you can report it if you want to, legally. You're not bound by any confidentiality, the leaker was.[/quote]

Yeah, but don't they have a right to their privacy and confidentiality? By reporting that info the Chronicle is violating those rights
 
Steroids are not the only things that enhance performance. There are so many legal substances that enhance performances out there that tons of guys are on. The reason steroids are illegal and frowned upon are because of the side effects they have on the human body, not necessarily because of the performance enhancement.

There are tons of guys on steroids. They aren't anywhere close to as good as hitter as Barry Bonds is. It's not like steroids=godly numbers. If that was the case, every joe blow on them would be doing the same thing.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of this era, not because of roids. This year he definately was off the juice and had one of the most incredible years ever seen. A .609 OBP..1.422 OPS?..232/41 BB-K ratio? Those are ridiculous and are a product of his evolution as a hitter, not as a muscle bound roid head.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']It would need to be proven that he knowingly did it. It is difficult, but not impossible, if others would testify against him. The thing is, the testimony of the players was supposed to be sealed. It won't be public record unless they're charged with perjury, then whatever they said is opened up. In Jason Giambi's case, the Yankees can't really use his testimony to terminate his contract since its sealed, even though its out there. But if he was charged with perjury, it gets opened up, and then they can do it.[/quote]

I don't know how a guy that considers his body the most important commodity in the world just takes something without asking what it is.
If I go to the bar and my friend orders me a shot I'm gonna ask what it is before I just send it down the hatch.
 
[quote name='Free Artest']Yeah, but don't they have a right to their privacy and confidentiality? By reporting that info the Chronicle is violating those rights[/quote]
Lets put it this way. The court has an audio tape of Michael Jackson saying he likes to touch little boys, but its evidence and sealed. I work in the DA's office and I leak the tape to the media. I'm in a shitload of trouble for leaking it, but once its in the media's hands, they can do whatever they want with it. They can't be forced to not release it. The legal responsibility would be mine alone.

Also, I'm amazed at how many people are still defending Bonds*, after he already admitted taking steroids. How do you know he was "off the juice" this year? Human Growth Hormone is completely undetectable, we still haven't figured out how to detect it, and we know he also took that. And 7% of baseball players still tested positive for steroids, after knowing a test was coming for almost a year that would determine if there would be testing or not.

I don't care how good you think Bonds* is. His career will forever be tainted because He Took Steroids and HGH. Theres no denying it anymore. He did it. We saw the results, 73* and 703*. 5 years ago, Barry Bonds wasn't considered a Hall of Famer, let alone one of the best ever. He didn't even make the all-star team, or the all century team, when Ken Griffey did.
 
[quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.[/quote]

Maybe love is too strong a word, but for every person that hates him (like me), there is one that likes him and will overlook whatever he does.[/quote]

You're saying that 50% of fans like and admire Bonds? More like for every person that likes Bonds (i.e. only Giants fans), 50 despise him and his surly attitude. One only has to look at Game 3 of the World Series when he received the NL Hank Aaron award. The St. Louis fans booed him mercilessly, while giving AL winner Manny Ramirez (who was killing their beloved Cardinals in the Series) loud applause. Nobody buys the nonsense that he didn't know what he was taking - you're telling me that his trainer would tell Jason Giambi that he was taking steroids, but not Bonds, his "best friend"? Please... Very few people will recognize Barry Bonds as the home run king when he passes Aaron, much like no one recognizes Japanese star Sadaharu Oh (868 home runs) as the home run king. In the latter case, it's because of inferior competition (Japanese professional leagues), while in Bond's case, it's because he cheated.
 
[quote name='anonymouswhoami'][quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.[/quote]

Maybe love is too strong a word, but for every person that hates him (like me), there is one that likes him and will overlook whatever he does.[/quote]

You're saying that 50% of fans like and admire Bonds? More like for every person that likes Bonds (i.e. only Giants fans), 50 despise him and his surly attitude. One only has to look at Game 3 of the World Series when he received the NL Hank Aaron award. The St. Louis fans booed him mercilessly, while giving AL winner Manny Ramirez (who was killing their beloved Cardinals in the Series) loud applause. Nobody buys the nonsense that he didn't know what he was taking - you're telling me that his trainer would tell Jason Giambi that he was taking steroids, but not Bonds, his "best friend"? Please... Very few people will recognize Barry Bonds as the home run king when he passes Aaron, much like no one recognizes Japanese star Sadaharu Oh (868 home runs) as the home run king. In the latter case, it's because of inferior competition (Japanese professional leagues), while in Bond's case, it's because he cheated.[/quote]
I would have loved to see Bonds get that award in Boston... Sheffield got the Balco and Whos your Dealer chant pretty good. Thats probably why they waited for the series to go to St. Louis. Baaaalllco, Baaaaalllco....
 
Do you people think that pro baseball player's are the only ones taking HGH, look at David Boston! I also think a lot of you should do some research on HGH before you put it down!
 
[quote name='TheRaven']Steroids are not the only things that enhance performance. There are so many legal substances that enhance performances out there that tons of guys are on. The reason steroids are illegal and frowned upon are because of the side effects they have on the human body, not necessarily because of the performance enhancement.

There are tons of guys on steroids. They aren't anywhere close to as good as hitter as Barry Bonds is. It's not like steroids=godly numbers. If that was the case, every joe blow on them would be doing the same thing.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of this era, not because of roids. This year he definately was off the juice and had one of the most incredible years ever seen. A .609 OBP..1.422 OPS?..232/41 BB-K ratio? Those are ridiculous and are a product of his evolution as a hitter, not as a muscle bound roid head.[/quote]

No one ever denied Bonds was a great player before steroids. He won three MVP awards early in his career, when he wasn't on the "juice". But you'd have to be foolish to think that steroids doesn't substantially improve some aspects of your game. Why the hell would players risk destroying their careers and legal prosecution if it didn't? HGH improves vision substantially, steroids allow for much faster bat speed and increased force when striking the ball. Pop-ups now become home runs. Steroids don't work for everyone (i.e. Jeremy Giambi), because there is still some skill involved (i.e. plate discipline) that steroids can't help. Steroids turned Bonds from a great player to a ungodly machine.

Also, how do you know Barry was off the juice this year? He didn't shrink in stature like Jason Giambi did.
 
Dude, the Bonds* thing is lame. You can put an * by his numbers if you like, but to do it everytime you mention is name is just stupid.

I would be willing to bet that he wasn't on the juice this year.

So why is Bonds the stain of baseball when there is a huge amount of other people on them? Like it was stated, if 7% are on them after they knew testing was coming, how many do you think there were before there was even testing? They are doing the exact same thing. And there are tons taking other performance enhancers that are perfectly legal. Why aren't those considered to be tainting the game?

I will remember Bonds for being a great hitter, not just a huge home run hitter. I can take away his home run records due to roids, but the best stat in baseball, OBP, isn't due to his roids. Roids did not get him on base over 60% of the time.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']5 years ago, Barry Bonds wasn't considered a Hall of Famer, let alone one of the best ever. He didn't even make the all-star team, or the all century team, when Ken Griffey did.[/quote]

• 1990, 2, 3: National League Most Valuable Player
• 1990-4, 6-8: National League Gold Glove at OF
• 1990, 2-8: National League All-Star

So that's 3 MVP's, 8 Gold Gloves, and 8 All-Star Games... all before 1999.

To compare, here are Ken Griffey Jr.'s awards over the same period:
• 1990-8: American League Gold Glove at OF
• 1997: American League Most Valuable Player
• 1990-8: American League All-Star
• 1999: Named to All-Century Team (OF)

1 MVP, 9 Gold Gloves, and 9 All-Star Games.

Bonds was better than Griffey Jr. and on the fast track to the Hall of Fame before 1999. I'm not defending his steroid use, but he was a great player before all this started.
 
[quote name='anonymouswhoami'][quote name='TheRaven']Steroids are not the only things that enhance performance. There are so many legal substances that enhance performances out there that tons of guys are on. The reason steroids are illegal and frowned upon are because of the side effects they have on the human body, not necessarily because of the performance enhancement.

There are tons of guys on steroids. They aren't anywhere close to as good as hitter as Barry Bonds is. It's not like steroids=godly numbers. If that was the case, every joe blow on them would be doing the same thing.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of this era, not because of roids. This year he definately was off the juice and had one of the most incredible years ever seen. A .609 OBP..1.422 OPS?..232/41 BB-K ratio? Those are ridiculous and are a product of his evolution as a hitter, not as a muscle bound roid head.[/quote]

No one ever denied Bonds was a great player before steroids. He won three MVP awards early in his career, when he wasn't on the "juice". But you'd have to be foolish to think that steroids doesn't substantially improve some aspects of your game. Why the hell would players risk destroying their careers and legal prosecution if it didn't? HGH improves vision substantially, steroids allow for much faster bat speed and increased force when striking the ball. Pop-ups now become home runs. Steroids don't work for everyone (i.e. Jeremy Giambi), because there is still some skill involved (i.e. plate discipline) that steroids can't help. Steroids turned Bonds from a great player to a ungodly machine.[/quote]

I agree, I am not denying that roids haven't helped Bonds. His stats are not pure. But like you said, they did nothing for his plate discipline, which is why he truly is a great hitter. To throw him away completely is ridiculous, like some people would do. The only thing I don't agree with his pop ups becoming homeruns. It still takes a great swing, even with roids, to consistanly put the ball out of the park against ML pitching. I know you were probably using that as an extreme example, but on MBs, there are always people that don't know that, are uneducated, and would read that and believe to be actual truth.
 
[quote name='dafoomie'][quote name='TheRaven']His jump just isn't contributed to steroids..watch tape of him before and now and you will see how he has become the most disciplined hitter I have seen in my life.

Steroids or not, the man is still a great hitter.[/quote]
Doesn't matter. Steroids make him a cheater and invalidate everything he's done since he started taking them. He will always be Bonds*.

He needs to be banned from baseball. He's done more to compromise the integrity of the game than Pete Rose and Joe Jackson put together.

(I love this picture btw)
giambi.jpg
[/quote]

Yeah since he is the only one to ever use steroids, he's the only one to jepordize the game! There are some guesses that over 50% use them, and now everyone calls out Bonds, and Giambi like they are the only ones. How bout A-Rod, Manny, and other big names? And oh yeah I'm SOOO surprised Bonds took steroids, I mean you couldn't tell before the testimonies were leaked.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='Scrubking']Even though bonds has admitted to taking roids nothing will happen to him and his record. He is too much of a loved basebal figure, and people will kiss his ass no matter what. [/quote]

Loved? Last I checked he was somewhere at the crossroads of hated and respected. We all know which way that'll go now.[/quote]

yeah people hate bonds, some people say it's because he's black or the media only likes whites. But I think it's cuz he's a dick. He never is nice to the sports reporters or never goes the extra mile to improve his image.

Imagine If Tiger woods or Magic Johnson never went on Tv shows, or created charities or gave interviews with sports writers.

In sports you can be a dick and be good but your never going to be remembered as a legend unless the sports writers like you. And for them to like you, you have to be nice to them. And Bonds isn't.
 
[quote name='"TheRaven"']

So why is Bonds the stain of baseball when there is a huge amount of other people on them? quote]

It's because Bonds is the most prolific player in baseball. He is considered by many to be the greatest player in the history of the game. He is also threatening some of the most cherised records in the game. No one cares about Jeremy Giambi or Benito Santiago because they have no impact on the game. But Bonds' accomplishments will be talked about 100 years from now. How does it look when your most accomplished athlete is guilty of cheating?

It's true that there are other legal substances that enhance performance, but none to the effect that steroids do. If they did, why would anyone bother with the illegal stuff? Also, no one can argue that Bonds has great plate discipline, but his OBP is so high because of the huge number of intentional walks he gets. The intentional walks are directly the result of fear of his home run prowess, which is partially due to his incredible steroid induced strength.
 
Manny's too absent minded to use steroids. Theres nothing to suggest he did. Bonds on the other hand, has sworn under oath that he has.

So now that the truth is out, its ok now, because everyone else does it too? Bullshit. Everything Bonds* did after 99 was on the juice and possibly even before that. He had his best 5 years in the last 5 years of his career. That doesn't happen. You don't hit 5 out of your 6 biggest HR years in the last 5 years of your career.

You can call the asterisk lame all you want, but the truth hurts.

Barry Bonds*:
703*HR 1843*RBI .300*AVG .443*OBP .611*SLG 1.054*OPS

He and the others will forever be branded as cheaters and a disgrace to the game. You know why? They ARE!

Bonds gets all the attention because he's the most prolific player in the game. He's one of the most hated and reviled because he cheated, and he's an asshole to the media, fans, teammates, coaches, everyone.
 
Each player is doing the same thing, it is not worse for one player than it is another. I realize why Bonds gets more *attention* for it due to the records, but to for people to say he, and he alone, is the stain of baseball is absurd.

A lot of newer stuff is just not as known, while steroids are. People go to what is known to work for sure when they want results. Doesn't mean that the other stuff doesn't or isn't working for a number of other people. Besides, there was no real reason until lately to worry about getting caught. Just sort of a wink, wink sort of thing within the game.

I agree that things have helped his OBP as well. Good points. But the reason they are so scared of him is not because of the roids. It is because if you make the slightest mistake against him, he can make you pay. That is a result of his talent, not just the roids. Like otherwise stated, then that would be a fear for anyone on them, which obviously, no one else on them can do what he can do. He would still be a feared hitter, roids or no.
 
I've seen Bonds* hit pops up that went out for a home run. If it were any other non-roided player they would have been easy outs.

And like it was said earlier Bonds* on roids hurts the game more than any other player because of his notoriety from record breaking. The media talked about him like a god or the greatest player ever so it hurts baseball a lot when your "greatest player" is also your greatest cheater.
 
too many players in baseball are on steroids to ever put asterisks next to people's names.

Bonds may have been on steroids, but so were others.
 
Bonds* has more homeruns just since he turned 35 than many great players have had in their career.
Can you really tell me that's not related to the juice?
 
[quote name='johnnyoski']Bonds* has more homeruns just since he turned 35 than many great players have had in their career.
Can you really tell me that's not related to the juice?[/quote]

Ballparks are smaller as well, pitching is weaker, some teams that are out of playoff races try to pitch aggressively to him

there are a number of factors that inflate the number of homeruns he has hit
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='johnnyoski']Bonds* has more homeruns just since he turned 35 than many great players have had in their career.
Can you really tell me that's not related to the juice?[/quote]

Ballparks are smaller as well, pitching is weaker, some teams that are out of playoff races try to pitch aggressively to him

there are a number of factors that inflate the number of homeruns he has hit[/quote]
So its not the steroids in which he has sworn under oath that he's taken? Nah, that has nothing to do with it at all.

Every other player in the league plays in the same ballparks and faces the same pitching that Bonds* does. Many of them are hall of famers. Most of them don't take steroids. None of them hit that many home runs after 35. Except for Bonds.
 
[quote name='dafoomie'][quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='johnnyoski']Bonds* has more homeruns just since he turned 35 than many great players have had in their career.
Can you really tell me that's not related to the juice?[/quote]

Ballparks are smaller as well, pitching is weaker, some teams that are out of playoff races try to pitch aggressively to him

there are a number of factors that inflate the number of homeruns he has hit[/quote]
So its not the steroids in which he has sworn under oath that he's taken? Nah, that has nothing to do with it at all.

Every other player in the league plays in the same ballparks and faces the same pitching that Bonds* does. Many of them are hall of famers. Most of them don't take steroids. None of them hit that many home runs after 35. Except for Bonds.[/quote]

Exactly. The most respected stat in professional sports is not touchdowns, its not points in a game, its home runs. Period. People love seeing the ball fly out of the park. It makes men look like gods to smash that thing over the wall. Its been this way since the begining. Look at how they followed Ruth, Mantle, Marris, Aaron, Sosa, McGwire, and now Bonds.

The most respected record is Hank Aaron's career total home runs. So what it took him longer than Ruth to do. Its a terrific achievement. Barry Bonds is about to take this record. Baseball has allowed a cheater to surpass one of professional sports milestones.

Selig has to do something. Rose bet on baseball and he may never enter the HOF because of this. Despite his on the field accomplishments. Bonds is cheating in his accomplishments.

YES he has a great eye, YES he is an amazing hitter, BUT he never cranked 73 when he wasn't 'roiding. Tony Gwynn(sp?) is one of the sports greatest hitters of recent years. How many magazine covers did he get? How many news stories? How many t-shirts did he sell? Tony didn't hit home runs like Barry. It always makes me angry when people argue that 'roids doesn't make someone a great hitter. If Bonds didn't hit the dingers he wouldn't be in the news right now. He wouldn't be breaking records like a mad man. He would continue to just be a great hitter who happens to be a huge a**hole.

Barry Bonds sums up all that is wrong with baseball. If Selig doesn't fight the Player's Union, you will see a mass exodus from the sport ala the 1994 lockout. It will lose fans.

Bonds is a jerk, money hungry, glory crazed, a**hole. The Player's Union not only wants to protect guys likes this, it wants them on a Wheaties box.

Fans must respond, they have to respond. They control the fate more than anything else. If people stop going to the ballparks, team owners will make the decisions for the players.

By the way, I'm glad I finally created a topic that got so much attention. Glad you guys like the link to the photos.

Great posts guys.
 
[quote name='Freshwillis']^

Tony Gwynn is massively overrated.[/quote]

Overrated?!

Season batting averages:

.289
.309
.351
.317
.329
.370
.313
.336
.309
.317
.317
.358
.394
.368
.353
.372
.321
.338
.323
.324

20 seasons .338 average

Enlighten me, how do you overrate that?
 
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