[quote name='Pliskin101']I am not here to explain it to you. Look it up yourself. But I will help you a little....[/quote]
If you want to debate an issue, it's kinda on you to produce facts that support your view. Telling me to look it up myself is lazy and defeats the entire concept of having a debate on an issue. You have been making claims in this thread but haven't backed them up with anything more than generalizations and anecdotes.
[quote name='Pliskin101']Here are some hints and a good place for you to start...
1. How do public unions get paid? How do their demands and packages get paid for?
2. How do they get paid even during hard economic times and the same money is not there?
Hint taxes is one robbing other programs is a second one for starters.
3. Many states have been doing it especially as of late also the fed did it to help the states with it. Some robbed programs that help the "real" poor and disadvantaged just to meet these golden packages. Why is it that this happens?
4. Hint because public unions and their unrealistic selfishness even in hard times over their true employer john q and the PEOPLE they are supposed to be serving. [/quote]
1. Public unions get paid by their members who pay dues.
2. The workers trade their labor to the government in exchange for cash, which is from local/state taxes. The union negotiates with the state on contracts, both sides end up agreeing after concessions are made to the initial proposal.
3. What states and what programs have been slashed to help pay for public employees?
4. What unrealistic selfish proposals have public unions been making? Keep in mind its a negotiation and the state is not forced into accepting into whatever the union wants.
5. Are public employees taxpayers as well?
[quote name='Pliskin101']Here is another hint....
If a business is in a slump or on hard times do private sector unions keep on making unreasonable demands THAT CANNOT be met without harming the business more or until the business is dead (Okay that may be a bad example as some actually do because they are to blinded by their own selfishness)? So why should public unions be allowed to do so over their employers?[/quote]
Like I said in a negotiation both sides want the best deal as possible and a compromise is made in the middle to appease both parties. Once again I'll ask for specific examples on when public unions have forced a local government into accepting a new contract that bankrupted the state.
How are wages and benefits in the private sector? Are they consistent with what is being offered to public employees? Have public employees made concessions by accepted lower wages, pay freezes, paying more into their benefits in order to help the state fix budget problems? Public employees offer valuable services to help the public. Are firefighters, police, infrastructure workers, teachers, transportation workers, etc not vital to a functioning society?
According to cbpp.org...
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3410
"
Studies find that public workers are paid 4 to 11 percent less than private-sector workers with similar education, job tenure, and other characteristics.[1] This wage disadvantage is
greatest for higher-wage public workers. The
typical middle-wage worker earns about 4 percent less in the public sector than the private sector. [2] Low-wage state and local workers, by contrast, receive a small wage premium. While the average pay for all public employees exceeds that of all private workers, this reflects the fact that public-sector jobs are much more likely to require higher education; teaching positions require a college or master’s degree, for example.
State and local employees are twice as likely as private-sector workers to have a college or advanced degree.[3]
Public-sector workers also earn less than their private-sector counterparts when one counts both their wages and benefits such as pensions and health insurance. Benefits are typically more generous and secure for public employees than for most private-sector workers, but factoring in the value of these benefits does not eliminate the gap between state and local employees and their counterparts in comparable private-sector jobs. [4]
[quote name='Pliskin101']Hints....Why do public unions (not all but most) and certain political leanings look at their employer (the people and the taxpayer that they are supposed to be serving) as some kind of endless bank (or magical money cabinet where money magically appears) that they can just keep demanding and expecting more and more no matter the economic circumstances? Why do public unions get to escape hard times instead of reflecting the economy and their bosses economy and hard times? Why is it so hard to fire a public servant who is not serving the public? Shouldn't efficiency and productivity be what is expected and the opposite of that NOT rewarded instead of being rewarded? [/quote]
I'd argue that with the concessions that public workers have made they are sacrificing along with you, how big of a sacrifice is debatable. Granted it might not be as sever as private sector workers who have lost their jobs but none the less they have accepted cuts. The private sector (which strictly operates for profit, unlike the public sector that operates to help society) has been slashing jobs, pay and benefits because they are only concerned with being profitable, not helping society. Due to the high unemployment they also hold all of the leverage, so workers are continually forced into accepting less. Your solution of bringing public workers down to private sector level of pay, benefits and hours is not going to fix anything. In fact it has a pretty significant impact on our economy.
Honestly think about it for a minute, what kind of adverse effects would cutting public workers do to your state and local community? Would people have less money to spend? Would local mom and pop stores suffer from people having less disposable income? Would crime go up? I don't think you truly realize how complicated society is and what it takes the keep it going. I get that you're angry, but you're angry at the wrong people. If you're for privatization, do you have any examples of when privatization has worked better than the public sector? I certainly can't, when I look around at the for profit healthcare industry or the prison system they are massive failures.
[quote name='Pliskin101']So instead of me meeting your demands why don't you post the things that back your initial statement that.... "public" unions help "everyone" and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot... that started this between us then maybe we will talk some more.[/QUOTE]
You've got the wrong guy, this is my first time responding to you. If you look at the link i posted above you'll see how much states and localities spend on employees. You'll also see that even if you eliminated ALL public employees you wont be seeing that much in reduced taxes. I don't expect your opinion to change, but i think it's going for someone's view to be challenged. If you find facts and figures to back up your case I would be happy to see them.