US Senate rejects amendment to expand gun-sale checks

[quote name='CaseyRyback']You mean the same Federal Government that pays people to live there?


Also, I don't understand how having to pay for my write to vote by purchasing a government ID is okay and totally in line with the Constitution, but having to get a background check isn't.[/QUOTE]

Actually the state government pays you to live there. Permanent Fund Dividend. PFD. I collected almost 20 of em.

I'm not that surprised Begich voted against it. He knows what side of his bread the butter goes on. The guy only really got elected because there were some trumped up charges against Ted Stevens that later got dismissed.

Begich probably actualyl sports gun background checks, but can't ever go on record as saying so or actually voting to have federal law in charge of it.
I liked Begich better as mayor.
 
Here is a question:

How did the obviously deranged Tsarnaev brothers obtain firearms in MA? That is a fairly strict gun state. I would have thought those laws for licenses and background checks would have been effective!

Licensing process
Massachusetts Law requires firearm owners to be licensed through their local Police Department or the Massachusetts State Police if no local licensing authority is available. A license is required by state law for buying firearms and ammunition. An applicant must have passed a State approved firearm safety course before applying for a license.
All applications, interviews, fees, and fingerprinting are done at the local Police Department then sent electronically to the Massachusetts Criminal History Board for the mandatory background checks and processing. All approved applicants will receive their license from the issuing Police Department. All licensing information is stored by the Criminal History Board. Non residents who are planning on carrying in the state must apply for a temporary license to carry (LTC) through the State Police before their travel.
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[quote name='Knoell']Here is a question:

How did the obviously deranged Tsarnaev brothers obtain firearms in MA? That is a fairly strict gun state. I would have thought those laws for licenses and background checks would have been effective![/QUOTE]

That is a good question. MA is uber strict about guns.

Maybe he just listened to too much Lil Wayne (he did like rap after all):

I'm strapped up, n**** fuck a gun law
See me walking with a limp, that's my gun walk
I don't do no arguin', I let the gun talk
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That CD just came out about two weeks ago btw. Tax evading, drug induced seizure having role model... but that's a topic for another day.
 
[quote name='egofed']EHHHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEH...good one, Bob.[/QUOTE]
You are such a child.
 
A fool would blame the Republicans here; you can't be shocked at *any* of their votes, at *any* of their perpetual filibusters, at *any* of their insanity. This is not new, uncharted territory.

I blame Harry Reid, for lacking the spine to go with a full-throated fuck-you-motherfuckers filibuster reform at the start of this Senate session. If he had done what he stated he would do at first, simple majority rules would actually matter in the Senate. Now we have dumbfucks like those in this thread who are perfectly fine with perpetual filibusters, and regard as totally normal the idea of 60 votes being needed to win.

Also, thank the "liberal media" for failing to hold to task any of the scumfuck Republicans who have abused the filibuster system beyond comprehension.

Getting mad at Republicans is yesterday's news; it's time to get angry with the few politicians who aren't sycophantic numbskull slaves to the plutocrats.
 
Even if you had majority rules in the Senate, the legislation would still need to get through the House, where it would fail.
 
I love how those with no experience regarding MA gun laws derp about how "uber strict" they are when in most cases, even in MA, all you need to do is take a state-approved NRA safety course, fill out an application, get a background check to make sure you're not a felon/violent criminal, and wait 4-6 weeks to you get your license. Once you get your license, you can empty out a store if you had the money. Only 1 town and Boston require you to take a marksmanship test. The only that's "uber strict" is getting a CCW.

I'm also tired of hearing about how strict NY is with guns too. With the exception of NYC, you can walk into any gunshop with a NY state drivers license and walk out with any number of long guns you can afford.

The ignorance about gun laws in "liberal" states is simply absurd.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I love how those with no experience regarding MA gun laws derp about how "uber strict" they are when in most cases, even in MA, all you need to do is take a state-approved NRA safety course, fill out an application, get a background check to make sure you're not a felon/violent criminal, and wait 4-6 weeks to you get your license. Once you get your license, you can empty out a store if you had the money. Only 1 town and Boston require you to take a marksmanship test. The only that's "uber strict" is getting a CCW.

I'm also tired of hearing about how strict NY is with guns too. With the exception of NYC, you can walk into any gunshop with a NY state drivers license and walk out with any number of long guns you can afford.

The ignorance about gun laws in "liberal" states is simply absurd.[/QUOTE]

Holy crap you have no idea what you are talking about.

I live in NY and the wait times for permits are ridiculous (months).

It isn't uberstrict to you because you are so far off base with what you think it should be.

Tell me - what law would you have established in MA that would have prevented those two from obtaining a firearm? (Assuming they passed what you call "easy" background check)
 
Background checks won't stop anyone who has a clean record, therefore we shouldn't have them. I think that is pretty close to the opinion of "some people".
 
[quote name='Clak']Background checks won't stop anyone who has a clean record, therefore we shouldn't have them. I think that is pretty close to the opinion of "some people".[/QUOTE]

.....They do have them. They didn't work. You are pushing for background checks and complaining that they are not required at the federal level. What are you not understanding?

What crime are you even complaining about that background checks would have stopped?

Please share with me these statistics you have that say people are obtaining guns from "no background check" areas or gun shows and then committing crimes. I am begging you, I want to know where you are getting this strong opinion, other than your own flavor of "common sense"
 
[quote name='Knoell']Holy crap you have no idea what you are talking about.

I live in NY and the wait times for permits are ridiculous (months).

It isn't uberstrict to you because you are so far off base with what you think it should be.[/quote]
So tell me...are you saying that you need a permit in the vast majority of the counties in NY state to buy a gun? I'm guessing your answer is going to be extremely entertaining.:rofl:

Or maybe you should just be able to buy a grenade launcher in case of a zombie apocalypse.

Tell me - what law would you have established in MA that would have prevented those two from obtaining a firearm. (Assuming they passed a background check)
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I'm not playing the magic bullet game with you again. If you're interested in having a debate, then rummage through the other thread to find the answers that I've already given ad nauseum.
 
[quote name='dohdough']

I'm not playing the magic bullet game with you again. If you're interested in having a debate, then rummage through the other thread to find the answers that I've already given ad nauseum.[/QUOTE]

Just what I thought.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Just what I thought.[/QUOTE]
LOLZ...I know. You couldn't even ass yourself to go through the first 2 pages of the other thread the first time around, so why bother here, right?:rofl:

You don't even know the fucking gun laws in your own state and you want to get snippy because you just googled them and realized that I know them better than you do? You're too much man.:lol:
 
[quote name='dohdough']LOLZ...I know. You couldn't even ass yourself to go through the first 2 pages of the other thread the first time around, so why bother here, right?:rofl:

You don't even know the fucking gun laws in your own state and you want to get snippy because you just googled them and realized that I know them better than you do? You're too much man.:lol:[/QUOTE]

You expect me to answer your question when you offhandedly disregard mine? You people are incredible.

I discussed NY Gun law in the past as well. Go find it. ;)

Edit: Just for my own sick entertainment, I went back to the CT shooting thread (im assuming thats "the other thread") and read the first two pages. The furthest you go into explaining any type of legislation is agreeing with berzirk that all guns should be registered. So these two psychos would have had to register the guns that the background checks approved them on (still assuming they got them in MA legally, still a good chance they bought them illegally). Maybe when the Police find out that they plan on doing disturbing things, they will recall their permits and registrations and they will have no choice but to turn the guns in, effectively eliminating crime!
 
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I would support expanded background checks if places like Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Bay Area, etc. became shall issue cities/counties. Like someone else said, it should be like getting a drivers license. Otherwise I don't see the point. There are a lot of worthy people, for example, like a black woman riding the bus at night in Los Angeles, who should have the freedom to carry a concealed firearm. I have heard that some do carry a small pistol illegally, and it's only illegal because she isn't considered "good cause" like Dianne Feinstein is.

Making guns harder to get in the rest of the country only strengthens the gun trade, similar to how the drug war distorts the incentives to run drugs. One of the major keys to all of this is prices.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You expect me to answer your question when you offhandedly disregard mine? You people are incredible.[/quote]
I told you where to find the answer this time and many other times in the other big shooting thread.

And how do you mean "you people?" Me and Clak? Liberals? Leftists? CAGs? Or just people smarter than you? I suspect the latter.

I discussed NY Gun law in the past as well. Go find it. ;)
Click to expand...
Of course you did and you misrepresented it then as well. This was your huge chance to shut me the fuck up about it and prove me wrong. Too bad you decided to gamble on making a bald-faced lie hoping that everyone else was as ignorant as you are in regards to NY state gun laws.

Lemme tell you a little story, holmes. A little more than a year ago, there was a reasonable possibility that I'd be moving to Rochester. And one of the first things I looked up after researching car insurance were gun laws because I was planning on buying a few and the laws are more lax there in regards to the necessity of permits.

You should know better than to try and bullshit me, dude.

edit: You finally checked eh? I'm impressed! In that case, the answer is on page 5. And no, I don't give shit that page 5 isn't the first couple pages when you could've just as easily pulled up all my posts in that that thread.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I told you where to find the answer this time and many other times in the other big shooting thread.

And how do you mean "you people?" Me and Clak? Liberals? Leftists? CAGs? Or just people smarter than you? I suspect the latter.


Of course you did and you misrepresented it then as well. This was your huge chance to shut me the fuck up about it and prove me wrong. Too bad you decided to gamble on making a bald-faced lie hoping that everyone else was as ignorant as you are in regards to NY state gun laws.

Lemme tell you a little story, holmes. A little more than a year ago, there was a reasonable possibility that I'd be moving to Rochester. And one of the first things I looked up after researching car insurance were gun laws because I was planning on buying a few and the laws are more lax there in regards to the necessity of permits.

You should know better than to try and bullshit me, dude.[/QUOTE]

Oh you found my NY state gun law discussion? What thread was that in?

And by "you people" on here, i mean every person that pretends they want to have a discussion but when someone engages them, they say "im not having this discussion". Yeah...those people.

But Seriously?

What was my "bald-faced" lie? :rofl:

Because I clearly cannot see it past your glaring "NY and MA gun laws aren't that restrictive" lie.

Here I will quote it for you.

[quote name='Knoell']

Holy crap you have no idea what you are talking about. True

I live in NY and the wait times for permits are ridiculous (months). True

It isn't uberstrict to you because you are so far off base with what you think it should be. True

Tell me - what law would you have established in MA that would have prevented those two from obtaining a firearm? (Assuming they passed what you call "easy" background check) Unanswered question.
[/QUOTE]

Edit: Mental health needs to be looked at. I agree with that.

I am not sure how requiring trigger locks and such would have prevented the brothers from accessing their own guns. Maybe in the CT shooting, however that is assuming that the kid wanting to steal his mothers guns, wouldn't have been able to get a hold of a key.
 
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Why don't you just ask me if I stopped beating my wife?:roll:

But tell me more about needing a license to buy a Sig 556 Patrol or HK 416. I'm dying to hear about it.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Why don't you just ask me if I stopped beating my wife?:roll:

But tell me more about needing a license to buy a Sig 556 Patrol or HK 416. I'm dying to hear about it.[/QUOTE]

First tell me when I said you need a permit or license for those guns?



When you want to have a reasonable discussion rather than a "gotcha" moment, I will be here for you buddy.
 
[quote name='Knoell']First tell me when I said you need a permit or license for those guns?[/quote]
Yeah, you totally didn't make it seem like NY requires a permit to buy any gun period. NY gun laws are so fucking strict that they make you wait for a handgun permit that only requires a background check while I can go into a gunshop with a NY drivers license and buy any semi-auto rifle or shotgun off the rack without any permits! It's pure Tyranny! Gimme a fucking break.:roll:

When you want to have a reasonable discussion rather than a "gotcha" moment, I will be here for you buddy.
Click to expand...
Reasonable discussion? Gotcha moment? Weren't you the one that asked me for a Magic Bullet Law to begin with?
 
[quote name='dohdough']Yeah, you totally didn't make it seem like NY requires a permit to buy any gun period. NY gun laws are so fucking strict that they make you wait for a handgun permit that only requires a background check while I can go into a gunshop with a NY drivers license and buy any semi-auto rifle or shotgun off the rack without any permits! It's pure Tyranny! Gimme a fucking break.:roll:


Reasonable discussion? Gotcha moment? Weren't you the one that asked me for a Magic Bullet Law to begin with?[/QUOTE]

I didn't make it seem like anything. I stated that the waits for permits were ridiculous. I assume people on here either know about gun law or can wikipedia whatever information they want. I'm not trying to mislead anyone.

Honestly though, isn't it a little telling that pistols are the ones that require permits? But the shotgun and rifles you are portraying as the worst things ever don't. Why do you think that is?

I was asking you because I want to know these amazing ideas you guys have. You criticized the current legislation in strict states as being weak so I want to know, what you think would be good legislation that would prevent such things? Maybe it's a trap question, but I just don't think there is good legislation for this.
 
534840_497131417001203_1865608961_n.jpg


Seems about right.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Replace the NRA name with US Citizens and it looks right.[/QUOTE]

#-o

uhhh... if that had been the case... it would have passed... Nevermind, just... whatever...
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']#-o

uhhh... if that had been the case... it would have passed... Nevermind, just... whatever...[/QUOTE]

No it wouldn't.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I didn't make it seem like anything.

I stated that the waits for permits were ridiculous. I assume people on here either know about gun law or can wikipedia whatever information they want. I'm not trying to mislead anyone.[/quote]
Bullshit. Being allowed to buy long guns without a permit is a pretty big fucking omission and excluding that is disingenuous as all hell.

Honestly though, isn't it a little telling that pistols are the ones that require permits? But the shotgun and rifles you are portraying as the worst things ever don't. Why do you think that is?
Click to expand...
I dunno. Ask someone that actually made the argument that long guns are the worst thing ever because it wasn't me. Or why don't you ask your numerous ideological brethren that berated me for saying that shotguns, with the right load, would be far better for home defense for the average person than a semi-auto rifle.

I was asking you because I want to know these amazing ideas you guys have. You criticized the current legislation in strict states as being weak so I want to know, what you think would be good legislation that would prevent such things? Maybe it's a trap question, but I just don't think there is good legislation for this.
Click to expand...
So you admit to asking me a loaded question about a magic bullet and still expect me to give you an answer that has nothing to do with actual gun legislation that you already found AND agreed with? Seriously...WTF, man.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']#-o

uhhh... if that had been the case... it would have passed... Nevermind, just... whatever...[/QUOTE]
Even a simple political cartoon is over their heads.:lol::applause:
 
The NRA is controlling the votes and the American people are getting screwed. Absolutely hilarious cartoon, until you realize how full of shit it is and that the will of the people says no knee jerk gun bill bullshit.

But then again I don't expect anything else from Clak other than posting someone else's work or opinions on an issue.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.pewresearch.org/2013/03/13/gun-control-key-data-points-from-pew-research/

Where are your supporting data?[/QUOTE]

Oh, I've got some too!

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institute...titute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1877

American voters say 48 - 38 percent that the government could use the information from universal background checks to confiscate legally-owned guns, but voters still support universal gun background checks 91 - 8 percent, including 88 - 11 percent among voters in households with guns, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.
Click to expand...

http://smartgunlaws.org/polling-on-registration-of-firearms/

An August 2012 poll found that 76% of respondents favor requiring gun owners to register their guns with local government.1

A January 2011 poll of registered voters found that 66% of respondents favor requiring every gun owner to register his or her firearms as part of a national gun registry.2

A poll conducted after the 2008 presidential election found that 68% of voters, including 60% of gun owners, support the registration of guns.3
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Hell, even that liberal haven Fox news...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/22/fox-news-poll-majorities-support-new-gun-measures/

A new Fox News poll finds the most popular measure continues to be universal background checks: A large 85-percent majority of voters favors requiring checks on all gun buyers, including at gun shows and private sales. That includes most Democrats (90 percent), Republicans (83 percent) and independents (82 percent), as well as most of those living in a gun-owner household (81 percent).

There is also sizable public support for requiring mental health checks on gun buyers (72 percent) and background checks on ammunition purchases (70 percent).

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ities-support-new-gun-measures/#ixzz2R9tpV6hV
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...but yeah, that political cartoon was reaaaallly full of shit...
 
[quote name='dohdough']Bullshit. Being allowed to buy long guns without a permit is a pretty big fucking omission and excluding that is disingenuous as all hell.


I dunno. Ask someone that actually made the argument that long guns are the worst thing ever because it wasn't me. Or why don't you ask your numerous ideological brethren that berated me for saying that shotguns, with the right load, would be far better for home defense for the average person than a semi-auto rifle.


So you admit to asking me a loaded question about a magic bullet and still expect me to give you an answer that has nothing to do with actual gun legislation that you already found AND agreed with? Seriously...WTF, man.[/QUOTE]

If I were acting as ridiculous as you, I wouldn't be giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are making it sound like NY simply has permits for pistols, and nothing for longguns and that is the extent of the law. THAT is disingenious. However I have the reading comprehension and courtesy to know that's not what you mean.
 
[quote name='Knoell']If I were acting as ridiculous as you, I wouldn't be giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are making it sound like NY simply has permits for pistols, and nothing for longguns and that is the extent of the law. THAT is disingenious. However I have the reading comprehension and courtesy to know that's not what you mean.[/QUOTE]

Ok, smarty-pants. Tell me how it is in regards to permits...cause...you know...you were the one to bring up the issue regarding permits in the first place. Restrictions on accessories and limits on mags are separate issues than the ones you actually brought up, of which the only issue you had was the wait time.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Ok, smarty-pants. Tell me how it is in regards to permits...cause...you know...you were the one to bring up the issue regarding permits in the first place. Restrictions on accessories and limits on mags are separate issues than the ones you actually brought up, of which the only issue you had was the wait time.[/QUOTE]


Says the guy who said (first):

[quote name='dohdough']
I'm also tired of hearing about how strict NY is with guns too. With the exception of NYC, you can walk into any gunshop with a NY state drivers license and walk out with any number of long guns you can afford.
[/QUOTE]

OH but don't worry guys, he wasn't talking about NY gun law in general, just the ones that make it look lenient!
 
[quote name='Knoell']Says the guy who said (first):

OH but don't worry guys, he wasn't talking about NY gun law in general, just the ones that make it look lenient![/QUOTE]
Is there any mention of permits in that quote?:rofl:

So I say that in most places in NY, you can buy any long gun off the rack and then you chime in to say how I don't know shit about NY gun laws and how you live in NY and how wait times for permits are "ridiculous."

Since, according to you, I don't know jack shit about NY gun laws, why don't you tell me what the fuck those permits are for and why the fuck you need to wait for them because I made no reference to permits in regards to NY and you were the one to bring it up first as if it had something to do with my original comment about NY to begin with!

Your entire argument is founded on how I don't know what I'm talking about, so prove it.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Is there any mention of permits in that quote?:rofl:

So I say that in most places in NY, you can buy any long gun off the rack and then you chime in to say how I don't know shit about NY gun laws and how you live in NY and how wait times for permits are "ridiculous."

Since, according to you, I don't know jack shit about NY gun laws, why don't you tell me what the fuck those permits are for and why the fuck you need to wait for them because I made no reference to permits in regards to NY and you were the one to bring it up first as if it had something to do with my original comment about NY to begin with!

Your entire argument is founded on how I don't know what I'm talking about, so prove it.[/QUOTE]

There wasn't any need of permits to be mentioned in your quote. You were going on and on about how lenient these states are, while cherry picking the very few things that are. Again though, I know better and can comprehend that you mean to say that you can still obtain firearms fairly easy. I disagree that the laws in either state are lenient though, but I am not going to go on a rant on how you are "misleading everyone" like you did on me.

Lol, but nice safeguard with the "in regards to NY". We will just omit that you were talking about wait times for licenses in MA.

Edit: and for the record, I didn't say you know nothing about NY gun laws, I said you don't know what you are talking about in reference to NY and MA being not having a very strict gun policy.

[quote name='dohdough']I love how those with no experience regarding MA gun laws derp about how "uber strict" they are when in most cases, even in MA, all you need to do is take a state-approved NRA safety course, fill out an application, get a background check to make sure you're not a felon/violent criminal, and wait 4-6 weeks to you get your license. Once you get your license, you can empty out a store if you had the money. Only 1 town and Boston require you to take a marksmanship test. The only that's "uber strict" is getting a CCW.[/QUOTE]

Now you say "But I never said wait times weren't bad in NY for pistol permits."

and I say "I know you didn't. I did."

Blah, blah, blah.

Now are we done purposefully misunderstanding each other and playing stupid? Or are you going to continue with the games?
 
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[quote name='mykevermin']I'll repeat: where are your supporting data?[/QUOTE]

That poll. It suggests that the American people were not as disappointed as the previous 90% poll might lead us to believe. They may want backgrounds checks, but it isn't as important as previously thought.
 
1) Those data show that 47% are disappointed/angry compared with 39% relieved/happy that the bill failed. This is your *support* for "the will of the people"?

2) That link is from TODAY. The claim of "the will of the people" is 3-4 days ago in this thread, when the poll was still being *conducted*. You gonna stick with this as your best evidence available?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']1) Those data show that 47% are disappointed/angry compared with 39% relieved/happy that the bill failed. This is your *support* for "the will of the people"?

2) That link is from TODAY. The claim of "the will of the people" is 3-4 days ago in this thread, when the poll was still being *conducted*. You gonna stick with this as your best evidence available?[/QUOTE]
That second poll was also effected by the campaigning of groups like the NRA. Of course that poll shows some people being happy it failed, they're the ones that the negative campaigning worked on.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']1) Those data show that 47% are disappointed/angry compared with 39% relieved/happy that the bill failed. This is your *support* for "the will of the people"?

2) That link is from TODAY. The claim of "the will of the people" is 3-4 days ago in this thread, when the poll was still being *conducted*. You gonna stick with this as your best evidence available?[/QUOTE]
When Americans are surveyed about their feelings on background checks for gun purchases, I believe it when Pew says that 90% of Americans say they support background checks. I support background checks in some form or another.

However, just because 90% of Americans support background checks, it does not mean that 90% of Americans will be disappointed or even care that the Senate failed to pass a specific bill expanding background checks. It should be noted that 10% were indifferent. That would be my answer as well. My only positive feeling about it is that it did not pass in the wake of an emotional but rare incident.
 
I'm glad you're so desperate for polls to validate your worldview that you'll form an opinion and *then* find the data.

You're so desperate you'll even use data that contradict your worldview and claim it in support.

People are fond of saying you can make statistics say whatever you want them to; you are proof that this is not the case - it is the fool who can't read statistics, so they simply misread them as supportive.
 
Desperate for what? Gun control isn't even a huge issue for me. I live in California for crying out loud.

Many people were surprised that the bill did not pass because of such overwhelming support for expanded background checks, right?

Now people are surprised when a not insignificant amount of people either did not care of were actually relieved it did not pass.

I don't think any of these things are surprising at all.
 
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