What is hardcore gaming? What does it mean to you?

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In looking at the response from e3, there is even more talk of Nintendo "abandoning" the hardcore gamer. Nintendo's press conference, although they tried, didn't really do much to dispel this thought.

Nintendo has said games like Mario, Metroid, and Zelda DS support their "hardcore" gamers... but some say that these titles really aren't hardcore.

So my question is... what IS hardcore? What defines a "hardcore" experience and what would Nintendo have to do to "prove" they aren't abandoning us gamers?

Is it even important to appeal to what "hardcore" means?

I'm interested to see what the response is...

SOME REFOCUSING...

In the spirit of the OP, I wonder then what Nintendo's place in all this is. We've gotten a couple of definitions on what "hardcore" means and is... but I think where I'm coming from is this perception that Nintendo is no longer or hasn't been "core" for a while.

Nintendo's conference seems a bit defensive on this front at times, and those guys on G4 unequivocally said that Nintendo no longer cared about the "hardcore" gamer.

In fact, one guy went so far as to say that the "mainstream" press would eat Nintendo's press conference up, while there was absolutely nothing there for the enthusiast.

I'm just wondering what the key here is. Is it about cinematic experiences (which arguably got their start with the PS1 and the FFs?) Is is about blood, violence, and "reality?" There seems to be something that Nintendo doesn't do (or can't do) that turns them off to a very specific type of gamer... and they are a vocal audience.

Is "casual" for Wii simply the same thing as "kiddie" for the GameCube and N64?
 
To me 'Hardcore gamer' seem to be a younger, male gamer who enjoy mostly FPS, Sport... ala kinda Xbox gen types of games.... i guess the age range are a bit younger (hence more time to play game or time is 'cheaper') than the casual gamer (less time to play game/time is more 'expensive') who probably range from a bit younger (time = expensive to their parent) to older folks (time = expensive)..... doesn't really mean anything... though..

Also.. agree with the RAMSTORIA.. it seems like a term to make it sound 'cool'...
 
I'll agree that hardcore is a very ambiguous term.

IMO, there are many different types of hardcore gamers...

There are those who devote most of their time playing a single game. For example, those who enter the Madden Challange year after year... Those guys eat, breathe, and sleep Madden Football. They day dream about hot routes and calling audibles makes them hot. Halo, Counter-Strike, World of Warcraft, etc. also have similar followings.

There are those who devote most of their time playing a single genre. For example, those who make it a point to play through every Square-Enix game and have a personal favorite Final Fantasy. They play for the story.

Then there are those who want to play the latest and greatest. They own all major systems and rely on game reviewers to tell them what they should and shouldn't play.

Here is a general consensus among the different types:
  • they all devote a fair share of time playing video games
  • they can decypher various acronyms (MMORPG, FPS, etc.)
  • they have a strong grasp on basic gameplay mechanics and an advanced understanding of more complex controls
  • their 1337 5killz allow them to pWN n00Bs
 
The opposite of "casual" gamers.

Gamers who play more often then they should, can play different genres, follow the industry, might post on the message boards, look forward to games besides Halo and the next Madden, etc etc etc.
 
[quote name='jkam']Hardcore = people who bitch about everything.[/quote]I was just going to say that the "hardcore" are the "never satisifed."

I think it's more appropriate to classify gamers to genres or time. A Bewjewlled / Solitare player who plays 1-2 hours a week vs. a Racing / Shooter / RPG gamer who plays 12-15 hours a week is far more descriptive than some stupid term like "hardcore" or "casual."
 
have you guys heard anyone use the word hardcore in anything outside of gaming?

anyone who isn't a gamer that walks into your room and sees a bookcase full of games would call you a "hardcore" gamer. the word is used for anyone who is really into anything... a hardcore metalhead, a hardcore starwars fan, a hardcore crackhead etc.

there are people who are so self-important that they have to be the most into anything they are talking about...but they're just hardcore assholes ;)
 
Anything not on a Nintendo console. Nintendo is for kids. Kids aren't hardcore. Mt. Dew is Hardcore. Princesses aren't hardcore. BOOM! Headshot! is hardcore.
Don't look at my sig.
 
[quote name='Swift900']I'll agree that hardcore is a very ambiguous term.

IMO, there are many different types of hardcore gamers...

There are those who devote most of their time playing a single game. For example, those who enter the Madden Challange year after year... Those guys eat, breathe, and sleep Madden Football. They day dream about hot routes and calling audibles makes them hot. Halo, Counter-Strike, World of Warcraft, etc. also have similar followings.

There are those who devote most of their time playing a single genre. For example, those who make it a point to play through every Square-Enix game and have a personal favorite Final Fantasy. They play for the story.

Then there are those who want to play the latest and greatest. They own all major systems and rely on game reviewers to tell them what they should and shouldn't play.

Here is a general consensus among the different types:
  • they all devote a fair share of time playing video games
  • they can decypher various acronyms (MMORPG, FPS, etc.)
  • they have a strong grasp on basic gameplay mechanics and an advanced understanding of more complex controls
  • their 1337 5killz allow them to pWN n00Bs
[/quote]
I think i'd agree with most of that. Much of it is relative. Some people see players with a shitload of gamerscore and see them as hardcore gamers, while all I see is bionicle heroes(no offense to that game, just a common one). I play quite a bit, so some of the pople on my friends list consider me a hardcore gamer, but I don't play nearly as much as I did a few years ago.

It's somewhat ever-changing. Overall though, I think anyone who considers gaming one of their major hobbies could be hardcore. If you work 80 hour weeks and the only thing you do inbetween sleeping, eating, and working is game, then you are hardcore even though your time spent is lower than others.

If you ever play so much that you hear a common sound effect in your sleep you know your a hardcore gamer. Oh god here comes a "you know your a redneck"-esque thread...

edit: somehow missed pyros comment. If anyone follows the industry and contributes to boards (sans-gamefaqs) is pretty much at a higher gamer standing than those who don't. In the same veign I always associate casual gamers with the people who ask the reps in stores what to buy.
 
Then what is a game that caters to the hardcore?

Is it an expansive, "deep," time consuming game? Does it have a lot of barriers of entry in order to "get" it? Does it require mastery in order to truly enjoy it?

I think in this way, Ninja Gaiden may be a "hardcore" series? I dunno.
 
Hardcore gamer to me is someone who likes something super challenging and will complete every little detail there is in a game multiple times. Then go back and beat the same game with self imposed limitations. Or anyone who spends a crazy amount of time on any game. ie. 8+ hours a day. Games that don't provide lots and lots of little stuff to do in addition to a challenging main game or provide little challenge would not be fun for a hardcore gamer according to my def.
 
Anyone who is really into games. A casual player might play X amount of hours a week and a hardware player might play X amount more. A hardcore player might take the time to play a game on all difficulties. Ecetra, ecetra.
 
ive always looked at hardcore gamers as the 100 % completist types. they have to beat a game completly find all the secrets and do and collect everything to feel some sense of accomplishment. i used to be that way until a little game called donkey kong 64 changed that for me. to this day i think about those colored bananas and it pisses me off. its one of the few games i completly gave up on and since then ive been free of that obsession.

if anything id say im an old school gamer. ive seen and played alot fo stuff and i tend to play what i want to play. i like to try diff genres from time to time ( although ive never played an rts) and though i have those games i like and series i follow im not married to any of it.

nintendo fans are probably the worst of the hardcore gamers and i think theyre definelty the ones hardcore means the most to. they buy and play anything nintendo puts out without hesitation and i seriously think if miyamoto took a shit in a box and called it a limited edition nintendo fanboys would buy it up eagerly. to some level hardcore tends to describe a certain level of obsession over gaming but to some maybe its about a level of skill or improvement in gaming.
 
someone like Mana Knight, who would cry if they lost their playstation. JK.

Apossum summed it up pretty nicely. It's a pretty common term for quite a few things.
 
Everyone knows that hardcore gamers play videogames while drunk, smoking a stogie and getting a blowjob all at the same time. Anything less and you are a hardcore pussy.
 
Hardcore is buying Madden every year. It's getting 100% on a game and then replaying it again. It's playing a Japanese text adventure game.
 
I think a good defition of hardcore gaming would be like playing your Ds or Psp while skydiving. Taking your gaming to the X-Stream

thats pretty hardcore


Another good example of hardcore gaming is when I play CS. I suck at such an epic level that I end up cursing like a drunk sailor and throwing things everywhere.
 
[quote name='magiic']I think a good defition of hardcore gaming would be like playing your Ds or Psp while skydiving. Taking your gaming to the X-Stream

thats pretty hardcore


Another good example of hardcore gaming is when I play CS. I suck at such an epic level that I end up cursing like a drunk sailor and throwing things everywhere.[/quote]Pffft. DS or PSP is like for hot air ballooning. You gots ta bring da Hi-Def with you on that rig. Parachutes for your 360/PS3, Plasma TV, 7.2 sound system, and beer holder. That's hardcore gaming right there. Halo at 5000 feet. It better be hooked up with HDMI too.

Speaking of which, anyone ever go hot ait ballooning? It looks like a ton of fun, but it's pretty expensive.
 
Gaming is different than any other hobby, though. I know people who own hundreds of videogames, but have completed only a handful. Hardcore to me means being absorbed in something much more than other people might be. A time investment. I don't consider it 'good' or 'bad' necessarily. After all, I think gaming is supposed to be about fun? How about all the people that purchased the BK games to get the achievements? If that's 'hardcore' I think I'll stick to being a 'casual' gamer.
 
Those who play video games every single day, for around 2-16 hours each day. Those who might have friends who ask if they want to go see a movie, but deny every request to spend more time playing video games. Those who have invested more time in a particular video game than dating a girl/boy. Those who spend almost all their extra money on video games. A hardcore gamer listens to video game music while driving/riding a car. One who posts on a gaming message board constantly discussing games.

Those who would be willing to cosplay as their favorite video game character. Lol, j/k.

Hmm, sounds familiar to me. ;)
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']The opposite of "casual" gamers.

Gamers who play more often then they should, can play different genres, follow the industry, might post on the message boards, look forward to games besides Halo and the next Madden, etc etc etc.[/QUOTE]

This is the closest I've found to a solid definition. "Hardcore" is just a lousy way of identifying people who know the industry (in whatever subject you are speaking of). If I say the names "Miyamoto/Iwata/Kojima/that Dead or Alive fucker," your knowing them shows a depth of knowledge beyond the game - it is who is making it.

You can see that in music, too. Elitist snobs follow the industry, and create a boundary of "authenticity" where so-called "good" music exists, and then there is everywhere else (usually major labels), where mass culture pap is spread.

Gamers can be like that. However, I think the size of the collection and time spent playing games is secondary to overall involvement. Spending time at stores chatting up game gossip, reading EGM and other mags, reading CAG, collecting game paraphernalia, etc. A gamer can own dozens or hundreds of games - so can a hardcore gamer. A casual gamer, though, won't shit a brick because Ayami Kojima isn't doing the artwork for the next Castlevania game. A casual gamer won't follow sales numbers, watch E3 keynotes, or schedule their release day purchases months in advance.

Many people came close, IMO, but PyroGamer nailed it.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Those who play video games every single day, for around 2-16 hours each day. Those who might have friends who ask if they want to go see a movie, but deny every request to spend more time playing video games. Those who have invested more time in a particular video game than dating a girl/boy. Those who spend almost all their extra money on video games. A hardcore gamer listens to video game music while driving/riding a car. One who posts on a gaming message board constantly discussing games.

Those who would be willing to cosplay as their favorite video game character. Lol, j/k.

Hmm, sounds familiar to me. ;)[/quote]

I don't think hardcore is quite the right word for that.
 
This touches on a subject that is one of my pet peeves with the online gaming community. I liken "hardcore gamers" to "wine snobs". They tend to take the games, and themselves, way too seriously and obsess over every bit of minutia.

Furthermore, they have created the term 'hardcore' to distance themselves from the great unwashed masses that are the 'casual' and/or 'mainstream' gamers. But in the end, it's all a crock of crap. Hardcore gamers tend to only accept certain games or certain genres as worthy of play. Japanese RPGs tend to gain you street cred. An occasional dabbling into the GTAs, Maddens, and Halos of the world wont hurt you too bad, but you need to supplement that with some ICO, Psychonauts, or Okami type critically-acclaimed poorly selling game to regain your balance. Playing Hannah Montana, Yu-Gi-Oh, or anything Harry Potter? (begin Soup Nazi voice) "Banned! One year!"

Moreover, the hardcore tends to get more easily upset by industry trends. EA going out and buying up sports rights and other developers is a huge deal. Nevermind that in the rest of the world consolidations happen all the time. A game is 'only' running @ 30fps as opposed to 60fps is a drastic defeat. Though I wonder how many people could really tell the difference during gameplay.

One thing that 'hardcore' gamers are losing though is the 'moral highground' for whence they would rain down disdain on the Pop Cap/Bejeweled crowd. With the games out on DS, PSN, and XBLA, the hardcore are re-discovering that the fun that can be had with a 5 minute game can actually rival a 40hr RPG.

So, IMO, the hardcore gamer tends to be one who gotten so far into the hobby that they *almost* so critical of the industry that they cant enjoy the games (note I said *almost*). In the end though, they realize that the games that fit their tastes offer them more enjoyment that most leisure activities and that they would rather talk, read, write, play the games than most anything else.

Just like wine snobs!
lata, hostyl1
--a casual gamer with a hardcore interest in the industry....who happens to be married to a borderline wine snob =]
 
An invention by internet nerds to try and delineate themselves from people not in their own clique. It's the hypocritical opposite of their own alienation from the "popular" people. You can recognize these people when they scoff at you for not buying the latest JAPNU-MANU game(they love claiming that western developers suck), or not playing on a particular system/gaming setup.

It's also a marketing term, kind of like ELITE, PRO, TECH, NITRO, LIMITED and various other lame adjectives added on to products to sell them faster.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']This is the closest I've found to a solid definition. "Hardcore" is just a lousy way of identifying people who know the industry (in whatever subject you are speaking of). If I say the names "Miyamoto/Iwata/Kojima/that Dead or Alive fucker," your knowing them shows a depth of knowledge beyond the game - it is who is making it.

You can see that in music, too. Elitist snobs follow the industry, and create a boundary of "authenticity" where so-called "good" music exists, and then there is everywhere else (usually major labels), where mass culture pap is spread.

Gamers can be like that. However, I think the size of the collection and time spent playing games is secondary to overall involvement. Spending time at stores chatting up game gossip, reading EGM and other mags, reading CAG, collecting game paraphernalia, etc. A gamer can own dozens or hundreds of games - so can a hardcore gamer. A casual gamer, though, won't shit a brick because Ayami Kojima isn't doing the artwork for the next Castlevania game. A casual gamer won't follow sales numbers, watch E3 keynotes, or schedule their release day purchases months in advance.

Many people came close, IMO, but PyroGamer nailed it.[/QUOTE]



there's no "opposite"..it's on a continuum. there are plenty of casual gamers who might know a lot of the industry stuff based on circumstance but don't game all that often and plenty of hardcore gamers who game every day and have a large collection, but wouldn't know who Igarashi, Itagaki are (or anyone who isn't Miyamoto, in other words...hell, they might just know him as "that guy who made SMB") At the same time, there are people play yahoo games and web games every free moment they get...they are "hardcore" by the definition not tied to the industry and culture.

just shows it's in the eye of the beholder. there are people who are definitely hardcore...and they can be pointed out by how much they play, know, and buy (unless it's a really special circumstance...like they're agoraphobic and only have a NES with a copy of duck hunt and just play that all day.) There are people who are definitely casual-- they might willingly play some games on their own, but won't own a home console or devote much of their time to the culture.

past that, hardcore is purely in relation to your own identity. for example, all the hardcore gamers in this thread talking about snobs and people who think only Japanese games are good. not trying to mock anyone, but it's just a good example of how the definition works. if you want to get empirical on that bitch, you could easily break into sub-groups.


[quote name='TheManaKnight']Those who would be willing to cosplay as their favorite video game character. Lol, j/k. [/quote]

jk? jeez, at that point you might as well.
 
People who feel the need to have this discussion every four months when something like Wii Fit gets announced.
 
[quote name='Apossum']there's no "opposite"..it's on a continuum.[/QUOTE]

Very true; forgive me for suggesting otherwise. I actually have a pretty righteous survey tool in my head defining a "hardcore" gamer on several facets. I want to use it for a paper about who "gamers" really are, what "gamers" do (related to gaming), and how they compare, as a group, to non-gamers in terms of academic achievement, extracurricular activities, and delinquent/criminal experiences.

Trust me, I've thought this through. It is never either/or, that's for sure.

and, for anyone who doesn't think "hardcore gamer" has any meaning, and does not apply to anyone, I provide you with this:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAhR1N5oJNA[/media]
 
I think one of the points the OP was trying to make, and I don't think anyone addressed it, is that Nintendo gamers aren't considered "hardcore." I watched G4 today (yeah, I know), and 3 dudes were talking about who "won" E3. And they were pretty much in agreement that Mario was not a "hardcore" game.

That begs this question: what is a "hardcore" game? I think they implied that Metroid wasn't either. Does Nintendo make "hardcore" games? Maybe Brawl?

Methinks that there something else going on here where Nintendo consoles are viewed as supplements to real gamers while things like the 360 and PS3 are for the "hardcore." Therefore, nintendo fans can't be "hardcore."
 
Hardcore gamers are those who get some sense of life accomplishment by saying they're better at video games than you. They are more worried about being better than actually having fun.

They spend most of their time in their mom's basement and spend 99% of their times inside. They only go out when stores get the latest copy of 'Hardcore RPG 3' Special Ultra Limited Edition comes out- they pick up the regular copy too... just so they can say they're better than you at both copies.

Seriously.

As for a hardcore game... I dunno. Ask the hardcore gamers?
 
Hardcore = is in really into it

The thing is when somebody comes into my room and they look around the first thing they might do is make a comment about Video games but never ask why don't I save space and self them libarary style.

Personally I made it an effort to choose videogames as my top source of media.

The thing is they have forgotten what really makes up the game that is created and is surrounded by brainwashed people.

That why we have Stereotype sounding Mario, Metro Haired Link, and even Metroid walking around half naked.
 
[quote name='hostyl1']This touches on a subject that is one of my pet peeves with the online gaming community. I liken "hardcore gamers" to "wine snobs". They tend to take the games, and themselves, way too seriously and obsess over every bit of minutia.

Furthermore, they have created the term 'hardcore' to distance themselves from the great unwashed masses that are the 'casual' and/or 'mainstream' gamers. But in the end, it's all a crock of crap. Hardcore gamers tend to only accept certain games or certain genres as worthy of play. Japanese RPGs tend to gain you street cred. An occasional dabbling into the GTAs, Maddens, and Halos of the world wont hurt you too bad, but you need to supplement that with some ICO, Psychonauts, or Okami type critically-acclaimed poorly selling game to regain your balance. Playing Hannah Montana, Yu-Gi-Oh, or anything Harry Potter? (begin Soup Nazi voice) "Banned! One year!"

Moreover, the hardcore tends to get more easily upset by industry trends. EA going out and buying up sports rights and other developers is a huge deal. Nevermind that in the rest of the world consolidations happen all the time. A game is 'only' running @ 30fps as opposed to 60fps is a drastic defeat. Though I wonder how many people could really tell the difference during gameplay.

One thing that 'hardcore' gamers are losing though is the 'moral highground' for whence they would rain down disdain on the Pop Cap/Bejeweled crowd. With the games out on DS, PSN, and XBLA, the hardcore are re-discovering that the fun that can be had with a 5 minute game can actually rival a 40hr RPG.

So, IMO, the hardcore gamer tends to be one who gotten so far into the hobby that they *almost* so critical of the industry that they cant enjoy the games (note I said *almost*). In the end though, they realize that the games that fit their tastes offer them more enjoyment that most leisure activities and that they would rather talk, read, write, play the games than most anything else.

Just like wine snobs!
lata, hostyl1
--a casual gamer with a hardcore interest in the industry....who happens to be married to a borderline wine snob =][/QUOTE]


^^^^ Winner


I also think this whole "hardcore" moniker is a bunch of bullshit that is perpetuated by the so called "Game Journalism" *cough EGM* *cough IGN* with sensationalist articles and fanboy baiting stunts so they can pull more traffic onto thier sites. I mean jeez if you just take a look at the forums at NeoGaf or GameFAQs its chock full of hate filled posts and angsty eleitists. Really I am glad most CAGS are above the petty drivel that soaks through those type of sites. Who gives a flying fuck anyway. Love not hate man!
 
Hardcore gaming is as appealing a concept to be associated with as a truckstop bathroom floor.
 
a once-removed hardcore gamer is someone who games heavily but positions themselves away from hardcore gamers because they think they are snobs, but in fact, the once-removed hardcore gamer is just doing exactly what they are criticizing the hardcore gamer for--distancing themselves and taking the moral high ground.

:lol: jeez, so much insecurity in this thread. gamers in general are a touchy bunch, I guess.

edit: to answer the OP, Nintendo didn't abandon the hardcore gamer completely. some long time gamers might be disenchanted that the "traditional" games are all sequels, some may be even more disenchanted by the distinct lack of 3rd party titles in their presentation, but Brawl, MP3, and Mario Galaxy would keep most gamers busy for the rest of the year--and there are some great looking 3rd party games to fill that out. Naturally, a vocal group of gamers reacted strictly to Nintendo's presentation. As fun as it is to make fun of the Wii scale, it's obvious they're focusing on it because it'll print money. The big picture is that they do have games for almost everyone, barring some nooks, niches, and technically unfeasible titles.
 
wow, didn't realize that "hardcore gamer" was such an evil term. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer since it apparently means uber-RPG nerds, but I wouldn't consider myself casual either since I try to be informed about what I buy. So... somewhere in-between? As in, I like games, but I'm not a fucking cunt about it?
 
[quote name='Chacrana']wow, didn't realize that "hardcore gamer" was such an evil term. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer since it apparently means uber-RPG nerds, but I wouldn't consider myself casual either since I try to be informed about what I buy. So... somewhere in-between? As in, I like games, but I'm not a fucking cunt about it?[/QUOTE]


see...I would definitely consider you hardcore. we discuss things pretty in depth on live--stuff even your average gamer wouldn't know much about. and you know about train-rape sims-- that's the point of no return. Uber-RPG nerds are just uber-rpg nerds.

edit: i dunno, I don't have too much baggage with the word...I just see it as a "degree" thing- small, medium, or large etc.
 
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