Whatever happened to 2D games?

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Okay, for starters, I enjoy the 3D jump that new games make as much as the next guy. But why does it seem that every developer, when given the chance, abandons the possibilites of 2D games just to 'fit in' to the next generation of gaming. Am I the only one that feels like this? Would they sell less at 2D (even if they were rated as good as the 3D game would have been?) Has anybody been the slightest dissapointed in a 'new' 3D version of their favorite 2D game?
 
yes. mario 64 and Zelda 64 sucked so bad they made me quit gaming for years until i discorvered a little gem named Harvest Moon 64.

3D has ruined the platformer, fighter and Metroid, just to name a few casulties.

Viewtiful Joe is probably the best thing to come out this generation, a fun, 2D game.

And don't even get me started on how ugly realistically shaded polygons are.

In conclusions, we need more 2D ga,es. When 2D dies, video games die.
 
I think Penny-Arcade stated it best, hang on while I find a quote...

I just don’t understand the game industrie's fascination with 3D shit. The goddamn dimension has been around for ever but they act like they just fucking discovered it. When humans started sculpting they didn’t give up painting. Obviously 2D graphics and game play were not an artistic choice 15 years ago. Sonic and his hyper fast game play were born out of necessity. That doesn’t mean it’s bad though. As soon as Sega was able to move Sonic into 3D they did, but what they don’t seem to understand is that the switch to 3D removed everything that made previous Sonic games great.
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[quote name='DenisDFat']yes. mario 64 and Zelda 64 sucked so bad they made me quit gaming for years until i discorvered a little gem named Harvest Moon 64.

3D has ruined the platformer, fighter and Metroid, just to name a few casulties.

Viewtiful Joe is probably the best thing to come out this generation, a fun, 2D game.

And don't even get me started on how ugly realistically shaded polygons are.

In conclusions, we need more 2D ga,es. When 2D dies, video games die.[/quote]

your crazy, 3D mario Zelda and Metroid are all awesome

Super Metroid remains the best in the series but Prime was better than Fusion and an amazing game
 
Metroid prime is a reason to go on a killing spree. taking a good game and turning it into another crappy first person shooter. Tremendous. Retro is even more worthless than Rare
 
One area where 2d will never go out of style is in fighting games. But in some cases games are better in 3D for example sports games. Eventually I think that developers will go back to 2d because after 3d there really isn't much else.
 
[quote name='DenisDFat']Metroid prime is a reason to go on a killing spree. taking a good game and turning it into another crappy first person shooter. Tremendous. Retro is even more worthless than Rare[/quote]

Yeah, except youre wrong. Metroid Prime is not a first person shooter, which is probably why you didn't like it. Its a first person adventure.

I kinda agree with you about Mario 64 and Zelda 64 though, I didn't really like them and dont quite understand why people liked them so much. N64's multiplayer games are awesome though.
 
[quote name='sandwiches99'][quote name='DenisDFat']Metroid prime is a reason to go on a killing spree. taking a good game and turning it into another crappy first person shooter. Tremendous. Retro is even more worthless than Rare[/quote]

Yeah, except youre wrong. Metroid Prime is not a first person shooter, which is probably why you didn't like it. Its a first person adventure.

I kinda agree with you about Mario 64 and Zelda 64 though, I didn't really like them and dont quite understand why people liked them so much. N64's multiplayer games are awesome though.[/quote]

He hates FPS
 
I dont like FPS, but I dont completely hate Metriod Prime personally. My problem is that you loose so much of the personaity of Samus because the only time you ever see the character is when you roll into a ball or the half second of animation you see as you chenge back into human form.

I like that you get more costume changes for your characters in 3D fighting games since you can't make 8 outfit changes for a 2d character without sacrificing frames or spending a LOT of time drawing.
 
My complaint with 3D is that for a long time developers seem to have been satisfied to stick a character in 3D. Screw making the game fun, just make sure we can legally call it a "3D environment". The only thing worse than these developers is the sheep who keep buying games solely because they're in 3D.

If I hear one more person proclaim a game's greatness because it's either "So realistic" or has "Such phenomenal graphics" (See all XBox fans) I might just turn off the video games for good.

My 2 cents
 
Well...when the companies DO try something that's based in a 2D plane, like Mega Man Network Transmission, it gets trashed in the reviews and sells like shit. Personally I think MMNT was straight up hardcore NES-days Mega Man with cel shaded graphics. I think Viewtiful Joe was the closest thing to what we had back in the day.

Oh, and:

[quote name='chosen1s']If I hear one more person proclaim a game's greatness because it's either "So realistic" or has "Such phenomenal graphics" (See all XBox fans) I might just turn off the video games for good.[/quote]

Don't paint all Xbox fans with such a broad stroke. You look like a fanboy yourself.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='sandwiches99'][quote name='DenisDFat']Metroid prime is a reason to go on a killing spree. taking a good game and turning it into another crappy first person shooter. Tremendous. Retro is even more worthless than Rare[/quote]

Yeah, except youre wrong. Metroid Prime is not a first person shooter, which is probably why you didn't like it. Its a first person adventure.

I kinda agree with you about Mario 64 and Zelda 64 though, I didn't really like them and dont quite understand why people liked them so much. N64's multiplayer games are awesome though.[/quote]

He hates FPS[/quote]

Oh, well whatever his preference is, a lot of people thought Metroid Prime was a FPS just because it looked like one and was instantly frustrated with it because it didnt work like they expected it to.

3D expanded on platforms if anything. Granted, no game has really done it well though. I'd say the closest was Jak & Daxter. It had some really brilliant platforming levels, but it also had some really really awful and repetitve levels.

What do you like Denis?
 
No offense, but 2D is withering away.....i was a fan of it as much as you are/were, but look at it this way: in 10 or so years when our kids have their virtual reality PS5s....we'll be clammering about the greatness of 3D in terms of the psx/n64 generation, inevitable cycle but one i think we're all proud to be a part of as gamers.
 
With the move to 3D developers now have an extra dimension to screw up in. Thats not to say all 3D games are bad but many times they arn't alway good gameplay experiences because they go out of their way to use the depth but don't always know how to make if fun.

2.5D games are great though, things like Contra Shattered Soldier, Klonoa and Viewtiful Joe work. They're fun and they use the 3d power that systems now have but they dont overdo it and ruin the playability.
 
Perhaps I'm too much of an old-school gamer...
But, as an example, I would have preferred the newest Castlevania (even though it is awesome) to have stayed in 2D. I guess I get disappointed when I think of all of the time and effort put into making it 3D when it could have been used into making it longer, more in-depth, better gameplay, and better controls. I do like 3D games - I love first-person perspective games be it a shooter or an RPG or whatever is 'fitting' for the game. But not every game needs to make the jump, as the great dwindling 2D games have proven.
 
The thing that worries me is that I'm pretty sure that, with the PSP being 3d, when Nintendo eventually makes a GBA 2 it will be a 3d machine. Right now, the GBA is the only 2d console left. I really like the way 2d games look. (oh well, at least there's still cel-shading.)
 
i think its sort of unfair that as soon as people mention 3d, everyone immediately thinks of FPS's. I'm going to stay out of the Metroid Prime argument, but there were a lot of good 3d games that were released this year that were not FPS and shouldnt really get lumped together in the 3d bashing. Jak 2 and Ratchet and Clank 2 immediately come to mind, and I had just as much fun getting through those as I did Viewtiful Joe. All 3 were pretty amazing.
 
2D is not dead, you get plenty of releases on the gba and still a few on your next gen systems as well like disgaea and mega man, unfortunately it has kind of taken over all the classic platformers :(
 
Games like Ikaruga, Viewtiful Joe and some of the other games mentioned here already that are 3d games but with 2D sensibilities... they prove #D need not be the death of 2D.

Hand animated sprites might go away for the sake of production speed but the simplicity of the 2D style will never completly die as long as we support the games that contain it.
 
I think its pretty funny how back in the day the game boxes of old NES games used to brag about "Amazing 3D Graphics!!" (which would usually just be a cheap moving background) and everyone would wet their pants. Now people want 2D back when we finally have real 3D..

Contra Shattered Soldier could have been much better. Castlevnia: Lament of Innocence on PS2 didn't outright fail as a 3D game, but they clearly placed more emphasis on making it 3D than the level design which is what made the Castlevania series so great. I played through the game and enjoyed it, but almost all the rooms looked/played the same.

There should probably be more 2D games, but I'm not that disappointed to see it go. There are still plenty of old school games I haven't played yet.
 
All I do is point to games like Viewtiful Joe and Goemon's Great Adventure, clearly showing that there is a lot more that can be done with 2D. Specifically, platforming games in general suck in 3D. Wait, so do adventure games and straight-up action games. In fact, 3D in general terms is only a boon to genres like racing, sports (not always), flight simulation, and FPS.
 
This thread makes me sick.

I can't believe tons of people are bashing Zelda OOT / MM and Metroid Prime. It's simply proof that none of you people are gamers, you're simply mainstream gaming public that will just as easily stumble over yourselves to pick up the newest copy of motherfucking Madden as you will bash something you just don't like because it doesn't fit your expectations and/or standards (i.e. Beyond Good & Evil, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Zelda: Majora's Mask, etc)

I enjoy 2D games just as much as the next guy. I preordered Mega Man Anniversary Collection, I'm working on obtaining all the others in the X series, and I've been going through Zelda 1, 2 and 3. But you are taking it way too far. Do us all a favor and piss off to some fanboy forum and leave the good forums alone so the legit gamers can be free of your incessant horseshit.
 
I kinda agree and diagree. Yes I love 2d games and I think they still have a good markey on games. I think it was fun to play some of our favorites in 3d Mario. Mario games are a lot of fun in 3d. But I still pop in those old jumping mario games every now and again. I think 2d games are a little more addicting though. You get lost in them while the 3d games allow you to take your time and explore and see the scenes. I don't the like the crash of so many first person games. i like the option to switch from 3rd to first! I think game delvelopers push for an exculsive 3d market though. The 3d does take some of the old fun away from our 3d chanllaged friends though!
 
[quote name='redgopher']This thread makes me sick.

I can't believe tons of people are bashing Zelda OOT / MM and Metroid Prime. It's simply proof that none of you people are gamers, you're simply mainstream gaming public that will just as easily stumble over yourselves to pick up the newest copy of motherfucking Madden as you will bash something you just don't like because it doesn't fit your expectations and/or standards (i.e. Beyond Good & Evil, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Zelda: Majora's Mask, etc)

I enjoy 2D games just as much as the next guy. I preordered Mega Man Anniversary Collection, I'm working on obtaining all the others in the X series, and I've been going through Zelda 1, 2 and 3. But you are taking it way too far. Do us all a favor and piss off to some fanboy forum and leave the good forums alone so the legit gamers can be free of your incessant horseshit.[/quote]

*applauds*

What everyone seems to overlooking is that it doesn't really matter if a game is 2D or 3D.

All that matters to me is whether or not a game is fun. OOT and MM are both great games...the series didn't "die" because it went 3D.

Sad thing is, if a game's not 3D, it doesn't get noticed. If it doesn't get noticed, it won't sell. If it doesn't sell, the publisher will move to 3D to please the mindless sheep.

2D and 3D gaming can coexist...it's just too bad that people don't realize it.
 
wrong, worng, wrong

madden sucks, PoP sucks, OOT sucks, MM is much better than oot, because OOT sucks hard and is the worst zelda game ever.

metroid prime sucked, beyond bad and worse sucks, So much suck.

applause also sucks

p.s. the mega Man x series sucks. In fact, things started going down after 3. Mega Man 4 made me cry. I couldn't believe they had messed it up.
 
[quote name='Gothic_Walrus'][quote name='redgopher']This thread makes me sick.

I can't believe tons of people are bashing Zelda OOT / MM and Metroid Prime. It's simply proof that none of you people are gamers, you're simply mainstream gaming public that will just as easily stumble over yourselves to pick up the newest copy of motherfucking Madden as you will bash something you just don't like because it doesn't fit your expectations and/or standards (i.e. Beyond Good & Evil, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Zelda: Majora's Mask, etc)

I enjoy 2D games just as much as the next guy. I preordered Mega Man Anniversary Collection, I'm working on obtaining all the others in the X series, and I've been going through Zelda 1, 2 and 3. But you are taking it way too far. Do us all a favor and piss off to some fanboy forum and leave the good forums alone so the legit gamers can be free of your incessant horseshit.[/quote]

*applauds*

What everyone seems to overlooking is that it doesn't really matter if a game is 2D or 3D.

All that matters to me is whether or not a game is fun. OOT and MM are both great games...the series didn't "die" because it went 3D.

Sad thing is, if a game's not 3D, it doesn't get noticed. If it doesn't get noticed, it won't sell. If it doesn't sell, the publisher will move to 3D to please the mindless sheep.

2D and 3D gaming can coexist...it's just too bad that people don't realize it.[/quote]

Here here, instead of trying to get rid of whichever dimension game you don't like, focus on getting rid of the horrible games, because that's what everyone really wants.
 
I think the main problem lies in games that try to make the switch from 2D to 3D. By adding another dimension, there is much more ground that those games need to cover, and they don't always make the cut. Just imagine trying to play SSBM in FPS mode in a 3D arena.
 
[quote name='redgopher']This thread makes me sick.

I can't believe tons of people are bashing Zelda OOT / MM and Metroid Prime. It's simply proof that none of you people are gamers, you're simply mainstream gaming public that will just as easily stumble over yourselves to pick up the newest copy of motherfucking Madden as you will bash something you just don't like because it doesn't fit your expectations and/or standards (i.e. Beyond Good & Evil, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Zelda: Majora's Mask, etc)

I enjoy 2D games just as much as the next guy. I preordered Mega Man Anniversary Collection, I'm working on obtaining all the others in the X series, and I've been going through Zelda 1, 2 and 3. But you are taking it way too far. Do us all a favor and piss off to some fanboy forum and leave the good forums alone so the legit gamers can be free of your incessant horseshit.[/quote]

Thank you Mr. High-and-Mighty. Just because someone doesn't like the same things you do doesn't mean they are stupid/evil/wrong. Let people enjoy what they enjoy without giving them a hard time about it.
 
[quote name='redgopher']I can't believe tons of people are bashing Zelda OOT / MM and Metroid Prime. It's simply proof that none of you people are gamers, you're simply mainstream gaming public that will just as easily stumble over yourselves to pick up the newest copy of motherfucking Madden as you will bash something you just don't like because it doesn't fit your expectations and/or standards (i.e. Beyond Good & Evil, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Zelda: Majora's Mask, etc)[/quote]

BWAHAHAHA...you do realize you sound like an idiot right? Zelda and Metroid aren't mainstream games? :lol:

Grow up.
 
SNK soon to release 2d arcade game pack for the ps2 with games like metal slug and king of fighters--SNK is mainly 2d gaming company that recently got thiers rights back from jap gaming com. expect to see some new 2d releases for the ps2
 
I was really excited about the SNK resurgance, and then the KOF two pack came out with missing moves and animations. What the hell is that? SNK has traditionally been out to please the hardcore gamer. There were a lot of people lamenting the loss when they pulled out of North America, myself included (I LOVE my NGCP), and when they finally get the rights to their games back, they shoot themselves in the foot by doing something that probably made sense to the marketing department (the missing moves and animations are all somewhat sexual) but was sure to disappoint their fans. I imported both KOF games in the two pack for my dreamcast, but was going to pick them up on the PS2 just to have the cut scenes in english. I won't buy the PS2 pack now though. The really ironic thing, is some of the missing animations are in the gameboy games.

As far as the 2D vs. 3D issue, I enjoy 2D more, but that's because I started on the 2600 and grew up with 2D. I don't hesitate to buy 3D games though, and I've found the ones that I have issues with are usually long running series the made the jump. Lament of innocence was okay, definitely better than the N64 castlevanias, but I like the 2D ones better, mainly because of level designs and the fact that the game mechanics for that particular game don't work as well in 3D. The Street Fighter series has tried a couple of times to make the jump to 3D without much commercial success, which means it can't just be me that didn't like those games as much. Obviously there are some very good 3D fighters out there, and Capcom has the resources to do it right, so why do the 3D street fighters not sell as well if not for people like those posting in this thread who grew up with the series in 2D? The Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games made the jump to 3D just fine, but how many people that were gaming before the Playstation generation of consoles list a 2D Zelda or Mario game as their favorite? 2D doesn't sell well, with rare exceptions, like Viewtiful Joe because the marketing morons for most companies are trying to sell to kids, and todays crop of kids started gaming in the 3D era. When 2D games come out, how many of us are willing to shell out $50 in hopes that they'll make more? I know I rarely will. I'm really looking forward to SNK releasing Metal Slug, but if it's not a budget title, I most likely will wait for a price drop, which is really self defeating to getting more 2D.
 
What makes 3D games worth more of your money?

the crappy graphics? The horrid controls. are you mesmoprized by polygons like babies with mobiles?

that is so stupid.
 
[quote name='DenisDFat']wrong, worng, wrong

madden sucks, PoP sucks, OOT sucks, MM is much better than oot, because OOT sucks hard and is the worst zelda game ever.

metroid prime sucked, beyond bad and worse sucks, So much suck.
[/quote]

Uhmm okay, I consider many of those great games especially OOT and Metroid Prime. Look, it's one thing to wax nostalgic over some of the older 2D games in the past, but to deny the fun and possibilities of the 3D generation is just absurd. I realize your stuck in the 2D era, but I agree with Gothic_Walrus, "2D and 3D gaming can coexist...it's just too bad that people don't realize it." The era of 2D games has been done over and over for many generations, you can still get those games for the older systems if you are so inclined, right now I enjoy seeing developers explore the 3D possibilities. I am not saying 2D games shouldn't be made, but lets not act like gaming died when 3D games began. Their are still good and bad games out there just as there have always been.

[quote name='DenisDFat']
What makes 3D games worth more of your money?

the crappy graphics? The horrid controls. are you mesmoprized by polygons like babies with mobiles?

that is so stupid. [/quote]
Man you remind me of the fanboys of each system except with you it's 2D games not any particular system. There are many good 3D games out, and frankly I enjoy the exploration involved in 3D environments that was never possible in 2D.
 
Gaming didn't die, just 99% of fun gaming did.

And sure, there was never any adventuring in 2D games..

oh, wai... :roll:


3d is ugly, and not as frequently fun.
 
[quote name='DenisDFat']Gaming didn't die, just 99% of fun gaming did.

And sure, there was never any adventuring in 2D games..

oh, wai... :roll:


3d is ugly, and not as frequently fun.[/quote]

You are ugly. You don't know anything about games and your opinion sucks. I'd rather hang out with space rover than hear you tell me a game sucks.
 
[quote name='sandwiches99']You are ugly. You don't know anything about games and your opinion sucks. [/quote]
Although your post lacks logic and any reason other than "his opinion sucks," I have to agree with you sandwiches. There really is no other response for someone who completely defies all reason, than to stoop to their level.

[quote name='sandwiches99']I'd rather hang out with space rover than hear you tell me a game sucks.[/quote] Thats harsh man, really harsh.
 
[quote name='DenisDFat']yes. mario 64 and Zelda 64 sucked so bad they made me quit gaming for years until i discorvered a little gem named Harvest Moon 64.

3D has ruined the platformer, fighter and Metroid, just to name a few casulties.

Viewtiful Joe is probably the best thing to come out this generation, a fun, 2D game.

And don't even get me started on how ugly realistically shaded polygons are.

In conclusions, we need more 2D ga,es. When 2D dies, video games die.[/quote]

You must be frelling insane!!! Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time are two of the best games ever made. In fact, Zelda 64 IS the best game ever made. Check gamerankings if you don't believe me. You must have been smoking something when you tried playing them because you obviously missed out big time if you couldn't enjoy them. Or maybe it's just that change scares you and the free directiuonal movement fried your tiny little brain. I will agree with you that Viewtiful Joe is an excellent game though. It doesn't stack up to Mario and Zelda from the N64 but it is one of the better games on the Gamecube.
 
[quote name='OutlawJT']You must be frelling insane!!! Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time are two of the best games ever made. In fact, Zelda 64 IS the best game ever made. Check gamerankings if you don't believe me. You must have been smoking something when you tried playing them because you obviously missed out big time if you couldn't enjoy them. Or maybe it's just that change scares you and the free directiuonal movement fried your tiny little brain. I will agree with you that Viewtiful Joe is an excellent game though. It doesn't stack up to Mario and Zelda from the N64 but it is one of the better games on the Gamecube.[/quote]

There is no "fact" that one game is a better game than another, just opinion. You can correctly call Zelda OOT as factually one of the most beloved or popular games ever, but not factually the best/one of the best. You should respect people's opinions as (*gasp*) not everyone likes the same things you do.

BTW, I strongly disagree with that Viewtiful Joe comment. I would rate VJ well above any recent Mario or Zelda game, although I have high hopes for Four Swords Plus.
 
Has anyone else noticed that DenisDFat hasn't said anything even remotely positive during this thread?

Methinks we've got a new resident troll...

Memo to DenisDFat:
negative14.jpg
 
[quote name='DenisDFat']
Viewtiful Joe is probably the best thing to come out this generation, a fun, 2D game.
.[/quote]
 
I really don't understand all the controversy. There are good 2D games and good 3D games, and there are bad 2D games and bad 3D games. Each has its advantages and drawbacks. You might prefer one over the other, but that doesn't mean it's any better.

I like to compare it to genres:
I love platformers (3D and 2D) but I hate racing/sports/puzzle games. But just because I don't like those genres doesn't mean that I think they're all bad. I know there are lots of great racing/sports/puzzles games, but I'm just not interested in them.

Why do some people think that a certain type of game must be terrible just because they don't like it?
 
I for one can't stand how 2D has been handled by the so-called 'masters' these past few years. Most of the non-portable 2D games have been rehashes that don't really attempt to improve upon their predeccosors, just add more to it. I guess that is fine to those that like it, but over time it really does wear thin (look at all the countless Mega Man or King of Fighters rehashes).

At least something like Viewtiful Joe and Guilty Gear look like they were created sometime this century.
 
Hey newsflash...

Some people think that some games are good, some think some are bad. That doesn't make a game THE BEST because you say so. Sales numbers or reviews don't say so either. Anyways, I thought this thread was about why there aren't 2D games anymore, not this or that sucks etc.

There will still be 2D games made as long as people buy them, so show your support (typing as I open up freshly delivered Castlevania Circle of the Moon)
 
I never meant to start this into a bashing on 2D or 3D games and mean no offense to anybody's opinion on either. My concern lies with the companies producing the 3D games (especially such companies that take a popular 2D game and turn it 3D.) I have issues with the decision to do so.
When adding the 3rd dimension, a game instantly adds a problematic camera control system. This is a toleration that we as gamers have become used to because we really don't have much of a choice. The games that work better in 3D are the games that have a need for or can be enhanced by a fixed camera angle - such as FPS, racing, most sports, etc.
 
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