What's after gay marriage?

[quote name='dmaul1114']The big point I guess is to just STFU and let people live their lives however they want.

Just because you feel marriage is pointless without children doesn't mean others do. For many it's just meaningful to symbolize their love for each other regardless if they plan on having kids. No need to force your views on others and tell them they don't need to get married if they're not going to have kids.

As for why I don't like kids, I have no patience for dealing with them. They're hyper, annoying, need constant attention in their early years etc. It's ok to baby sit my nieces and nephews every once in a blue moon, but I'd never want to do it full time. And as I turn 30 this year, it's not a case of being young etc. I just don't enjoy children, and thus don't want to have any of my own. I'm very focused on my career and enjoying life myself to give that up to have children. I'll freely admit that I'm about as egotistical and self-centered as they come, other than with my select few closest friends and loved ones.[/quote]


That's all well and good, but I was by no means attempting to force my views on anyone. I wanted to express my views. I've acknowledged the whole time it's legal; that doesn't mean I have to agree with it, nor does it mean I'm condemning the person(s) involved. I'm simply saying "This is what I believe about this". You could be my best friend in the world and I'll still tell you something like that to your face, but it doesn't mean I think you're a bad person, or that you have to share my views. I just want my point of view understood, and a worse case scenario, we agree to disagree.
 
Expressing views like that, especially to "friends" faces=being a judgmental prick in my book.

Live and let live man. Keep your nose out of other peoples business and unwanted opinions to yourself, especially about things that are none of your business!

But yes, agree to disagree is the only end result here.
 
Okay, is Meth someone's alt? Just too many good quotes here. The bit with the stars and the king and queen thing was gold.[quote name='Methadon']With divorce rates as high as they are, marriage alone certainly doesn't do a good job of deterring divorce (not as hard as you think).[/quote]You mean being married doesn't prevent divorce? I wouldn't have guessed that the main prerequisite for a divorce wasn't a very good bulwark against it. 'N I suppose having kids is the thing that keeps people together, eh?
[quote name='Methadon'] I know it sounds like I'm essentially saying that your marriage is bullshit, but I'm moreso implying that you're wasting it while you and your wife remain the only members of the family.[/quote]Yeah, it still sounds like you're saying his marriage is bullshit.
[quote name='Methadon']Why you hate kids is beyond me; didn't you use to be one?[/quote]I don't pay as much attention as I used to - could you cite your sources for that first bit there? Because if you can't do that, then I'm just going to start referring to you as Chacrana.
[quote name='Methadon']Why two people who think they're smart would ever think it's a dumb idea to have kids...[/quote]Financial reasons, lack of parenting skills, bad genetics, assorted moral and ethical issues (the population ain't gettin' any smaller, here, folks), etc.
[quote name='Methadon']... only remove their "oh so special" genes from the procreation pool.[/quote]We aren't slaves to our reproductive instincts, no matter how much purveyors of the is-ought fallacy wish we were.

EDIT: Google ads: trying to turn me gay since mid '07.

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[quote name='dmaul1114']This one I don't think we'll see. Most of the cops and prosecutors I've worked with are already moving away from that--> at least in high crime areas.

They have bigger fish to fry, more important cases to handle, more dangerous people needing limited prison beds etc.

Rehabilitation is coming back as well. I don't know that we'll ever get to the main focus on rehab we had prior to the 1970's and 80s when crime rates began skyrocket and research (flawed research at that) showed that treatment didn't work to prevent recidivism.

There's a pretty solid refutation of that now, and a growing movement in criminology and criminal justice around evidence based policy-->identifying what works and promoting it's use.

So I think we'll slowly see more use of community treatments etc. vs. just straight mass incarceration. It will take a while, but it will happen in my view.[/quote]

[quote name='lbradeen']As far as non violent drug offenses are concerned i think we're moving away from jail time and more towards drug courts.[/quote]

Good to know. I'd just been reading about that TCAP suicide scandal and it got me to thinking about the explosion of "reality" police shows/courtroom TV. It's good to know that the sociologist's take on all this is that it's more of a fad that will reach a tipping point and go back.

I am also sick of stuff like the FBI moving in on Cali and enforcing federal law for the sake of sticking it to state's rights on small-fry issues like medical marijuana. So many people seem to be hauled in to "make a point" - I really hope that the madness stops and we start thinking less about legislating morality and more about creating a peaceful free society.
 
So is Methadon a misspelling of methadone or is it like a combination of a mastadon (I see that should actually be mastodon...) and meth? I'm thinking it would be pretty interesting to see a mastodon on meth.
 
[quote name='SpazX']I'm thinking it would be pretty interesting to see a mastodon on meth.[/quote]It's actually pretty cool. I'll let you ride mine some time if I'm ever in your neighbourhood.
 
[quote name='lbradeen']Healthcare is moving towards greater access. MA already requires everyone to have healthcare and in CT they are currently working on legislation that would let individuals get private healthcare through state negotiated plans.[/quote]

I agree that there will be greater access for all.

I just think hospitals will start having an almost class-level stratification. IE the premium wings for deluxe health insurance will have all the latest machines, extended bed rest optional, and extras like counseling/massages.

Basic wings for crappy/no health insurance will have Civil War surgeons, anasthesia that amounts to a bottle of Jim Beam, and an hourly bed-rest rate.

It would be a great way to pass the buck, companies could offer employees healthcare plans that stink, the average Joe looking to complain would be passed around between the healthcare company, their employer, and their hospital, and the rich would still get the same premium care they've come to expect. If you have an HMO you already know they offer tiered access to healthcare - I expect this trend to continue and escalate.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Okay, is Meth someone's alt? Just too many good quotes here. The bit with the stars and the king and queen thing was gold.You mean being married doesn't prevent divorce? I wouldn't have guessed that the main prerequisite for a divorce wasn't a very good bulwark against it. 'N I suppose having kids is the thing that keeps people together, eh?
Yeah, it still sounds like you're saying his marriage is bullshit.
I don't pay as much attention as I used to - could you cite your sources for that first bit there? Because if you can't do that, then I'm just going to start referring to you as Chacrana.
Financial reasons, lack of parenting skills, bad genetics, assorted moral and ethical issues (the population ain't gettin' any smaller, here, folks), etc.
We aren't slaves to our reproductive instincts, no matter how much purveyors of the is-ought fallacy wish we were.

EDIT: Google ads: trying to turn me gay since mid '07.
[/quote]

I'm definitely not somebody's alt; the forum's admins can easily prove that with the ip log.

My source for his saying he doesn't like kids was in an earlier post of his, in this same thread.

Financial reasons can be somewhat of an issue, but raising a child doesn't cost THAT much more than sustaining a family of 2. Sure, it's higher, but not unmanagable (I do it on my low income). Nobody has parenting skills before they're a parent. You learn and develop them as you go. You have no way to check your genetics for bad genes without labwork, so if you can even check that you're definitely able to afford a child.




[quote name='SpazX']So is Methadon a misspelling of methadone or is it like a combination of a mastadon (I see that should actually be mastodon...) and meth? I'm thinking it would be pretty interesting to see a mastodon on meth.[/quote]

Actually, back in the day my rap name was C-Meth. Some of my homeboys just called me 'Methadon' instead, and I kept that for a while (until I started DJing).
 
[quote name='camoor']I agree that there will be greater access for all.

I just think hospitals will start having an almost class-level stratification. IE the premium wings for deluxe health insurance will have all the latest machines, extended bed rest optional, and extras like counseling/massages.

Basic wings for crappy/no health insurance will have Civil War surgeons, anasthesia that amounts to a bottle of Jim Beam, and an hourly bed-rest rate.

It would be a great way to pass the buck, companies could offer employees healthcare plans that stink, the average Joe looking to complain would be passed around between the healthcare company, their employer, and their hospital, and the rich would still get the same premium care they've come to expect. If you have an HMO you already know they offer tiered access to healthcare - I expect this trend to continue and escalate.[/quote]

That put some "funny" thoughts into my head, well that and the two 60 minute dogfish heads. As an offset to the common " universal healthcare will stifle innovation" argument those without gold plans are now up for medical testing and involuntary organ donations. The only fault I see with that is the rich will now be recieving inferior "poor" kidneys and lungs but this at least wont stop them from getting married to pass on their better dna.

I'm not sure where it will go really, i dont know enough about universal healthcare in other nations to really comment on it. I'll bet whatever we get has our own american spin on it.

All in all a good thread if you can ignore the troll in the corner.
 
[quote name='Methadon']
My source for his saying he doesn't like kids was in an earlier post of his, in this same thread.[/quote]Hey, if I didn't check his posts before I made my first post, what makes ya think I'm going to now?
[quote name='Methadon'] Financial reasons can be somewhat of an issue...[/quote]Master of understatement.
[quote name='Methadon']Nobody has parenting skills before they're a parent.[/quote]Are you saying that everyone starts off equal with regards to parenting? [quote name='Methadon']You learn and develop them as you go.[/quote]Or you're simply a bad parent, period. There are people like that, you know.
[quote name='Methadon']You have no way to check your genetics for bad genes without labwork, so if you can even check that you're definitely able to afford a child.[/quote]Wow. First, you assume that none of these reasons is strong enough on their own - it's not enough that there's a 50% chance that you'll pass on Huntington's Disease, you have to be too poor to know, too! Second, you don't need labwork to know that you and any hypothetical children are/aren't at risk for a number of diseases (Huntington's, for example).
 
[quote name='Methadon']So since we're on the subject, do you and your wife plan to have any children, either through medicine or adoption (ever; doesn't have to be right now)?[/quote]This was like two pages ago, but my answer is, I have no idea. She's working on her Masters and wants to pursue a PhD, and I am in my third year of medical school. I have neither the time nor the money for children at this point in time. The adoption process is too much of a headache to tackle right now. Maybe my mind will change in the future, maybe it won't. But I hardly thing my marriage will be meaningless if we decide not to have children.
 
[quote name='lanzarlaluna']This was like two pages ago, but my answer is, I have no idea. She's working on her Masters and wants to pursue a PhD, and I am in my third year of medical school. I have neither the time nor the money for children at this point in time. The adoption process is too much of a headache to tackle right now. Maybe my mind will change in the future, maybe it won't. But I hardly thing my marriage will be meaningless if we decide not to have children.[/quote]

Hmm, PhD programs are usually pretty chill, so leave the children thing for your wife to sort out. In medicine, things just generaly get more and more tiresome... 3rd year of med school sucks... 4th year is usually very chill unless your school is run by a-holes. Residency usually sucks, especially during the intern year, unless you are at some cushy community program or doing some laid back specialty (physiatry, psychiatry, pathology at a small hospital, radiolgy at a small hospital, etc.)... but the pay sucks regardless.
...there is always a danger of being enveloped by work and putting things off until, well... ;)
 
Methadone - I usually lurk on these forums, but your comments were too much.

Adoption and fertility treatments are very expensive, time-consuming, frustrating, and not always succesful. Some couples, who may have wanted children but couldn't have them naturally, decide that it's not worth it.

Second, saying that a marriage is a waste if the couple doesn't have children is insulting. I'll be married soon, but we don't know if we'll have children. If we decide not to have kids, I certainly wouldn't consider our marriage a waste. We're making a lifelong commitment to each other - to be there for each other through all the good and bad things that life throws at us. The commitment stands regardless of whether we have children.

Is it really so hard to understand that people would want to make that commitment, but not have children?
 
[quote name='BigT']Hmm, PhD programs are usually pretty chill,[/QUOTE]

Pretty chill my ass. They're time consuming and stressful as hell! At least if you're at a top one. I'm sure med school is worse, but a Ph D at a top program (I'm at the top in my field) is far from chill.

I can't even eat spicy food anymore from acid reflux problems from all the stress from comp exams, research work etc.!
 
I really can't believe people think that marriage is to start a family!
I mean, really now. That's an OPTION, yes. But two people may not really like children.. for example, I don't want kids. I'm too selfish to be a parent, :lol: (Seriously)..so I really have no intentions on having children because I don't think I'd be a good dad.

It really seems like people will come up with about every excuse to justify being against gay marriage.
 
[quote name='Methadon']Not sure. Personally, I find the idea of a gay marriage a bit ironic. In my opinion, a marriage is about 2 partners coming together who can "produce" a family. While adoption is available, I still think the ideal should be people who can actually reproduce their DNA, or at least attempt to. Maybe if one of the gay men had ovaries, a womb, and eggs, etc implanted, or gay women had a way to produce sperm and inceminate the other, I wouldn't have a problem).[/quote]
This thread isn't about Gay Marriage, it's about the next stupid argument to come about.

And no, a marriage without children isn't useless. I plan on getting married, but NEVER having children. Does that mean that I shouldn't marry?
 
[quote name='lilboo']It really seems like people will come up with about every excuse to justify being against gay marriage.[/quote]

I think they come up with about every excuse to justify their bigotry.

Because you can't hang a policy position on "we don't like those people" - even if everyone knows that's really what it's all about.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']This thread isn't about Gay Marriage, it's about the next stupid argument to come about.

And no, a marriage without children isn't useless. I plan on getting married, but NEVER having children. Does that mean that I shouldn't marry?[/quote]

The Christian Bible says "be fruitful and multiply"

Didn't you know that we legislate morality in the new America?
 
The problem about the gays is that it's hard to identify them at a young age, unlike niglets. So we can't take them out to curb the population.

Seriously though, hopefully the new development is that more conservative Christians learn to practice more social justice and help protect the environment. I doubt we'll actually see any "new" issues- rather, everyone might gather around one that has been ignored so far.
 
[quote name='Unickuta']

Seriously though, hopefully the new development is that more conservative Christians learn to practice more social justice and help protect the environment. I doubt we'll actually see any "new" issues- rather, everyone might gather around one that has been ignored so far.[/QUOTE]

I think the chances of that happening are much higher if/when real solid evidence comes out that is not politically motivated, proving once and for all that we are up against catastrophic environmental man-made danger that requires catastrophic change. So far, regardless of what many scientists that want to keep their jobs say, it hasn't.

Even still, if catastrophe is coming, it's probably best to prepare for what's coming, rather than going bankrupt with quick prevention and pointing fingers at man.

That being said, I can see a a possible global rallying cry, where people come together to prepare for nature's wrath.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I think the chances of that happening are much higher if/when real solid evidence comes out that is not politically motivated, proving once and for all that we are up against catastrophic environmental man-made danger that requires catastrophic change. So far, regardless of what many scientists that want to keep their jobs say, it hasn't.

Otherwise, it's best to prepare for what's coming, rather than try to stop it and accept blame.[/QUOTE]

I'd hope people can just wise up and realize that conservation is the best way to live regardless of whether there's a man made environmental crisis coming.

I don't expect people to make huge financial or convenience sacrifices, as even I have my limits, but there's way to many people who chuck stuff in the trash can that could go in the recycling bin right fucking beside the trash can, who leave lights on for hours in rooms not being used etc. etc.
 
I haven't read through the entire thread, but I figure this is the most obvious joke out there:

What's after gay marriage?
Gay divorce.
 
[quote name='nasum']I haven't read through the entire thread, but I figure this is the most obvious joke out there:

What's after gay marriage?
Gay divorce.[/QUOTE]

I was going to say gay sex.
 
[quote name='ananag112']I think the legalization of certain currently illegal drugs will be next.[/quote]

Really?

Given the current trend, I think the further marginalization of currently legal drugs will be more likely.

As in: less places where tobacco is permitted, lowering legal blood alcohol levels for drivers even further, increased FDA regulation of all of these new "energy drinks", etc

I know for a fact that certain BS politicians are playing to the crowd and denouncing energy drinks named "cocaine" and "pimp juice" even when the primary ingredients amount to just caffeine, sugar, and empty calories.

Meanwhile I'm sure that every night commercials will be enticing already overweight Americans to eat more buckets of deeply fried chicken and oreo pizzas.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']I was going to say gay sex.[/quote]

Only the most traditional gay people would wait for gay marriage before having gay sex. I don't imagine a lot of gay people responding "I don't see a gay ring on my gay finger" when asked if they'd like to have gay sex. Some might hope at least for some gay dinner or a gay movie first, but others would probably be satisfied just with a gay drink and a nice gay conversation.

If you're counting that's 11.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Only the most traditional gay people would wait for gay marriage before having gay sex. I don't imagine a lot of gay people responding "I don't see a gay ring on my gay finger" when asked if they'd like to have gay sex. Some might hope at least for some gay dinner or a gay movie first, but others would probably be satisfied just with a gay drink and a nice gay conversation.

If you're counting that's 11.[/QUOTE]

Interesting observation. I've often wondered if I'd ever meet a gay couple that would admit "waiting".
 
[quote name='SpazX']Only the most traditional gay people would wait for gay marriage before having gay sex. I don't imagine a lot of gay people responding "I don't see a gay ring on my gay finger" when asked if they'd like to have gay sex. Some might hope at least for some gay dinner or a gay movie first, but others would probably be satisfied just with a gay drink and a nice gay conversation.

If you're counting that's 11.[/quote]

awesome
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Interesting observation. I've often wondered if I'd ever meet a gay couple that would admit "waiting".[/quote]

It wasn't interesting it was stupid :p. If I were gay I wouldn't wait for sex until after marriage, hell I'm not gay and I didn't wait for sex until after marriage. The prevailing attitude now, gay or straight, is that waiting for marriage to have sex isn't necessary. Add to that the fact that gay people can't get married in most places and I'd say waiting until after marriage for sex is probably not an idea that most gay people have.
 
Yeah, that's kind of silly. Pretty much no one waits until marriage for sex these days, so why should gay couples be any different. Stupid not to have sex first IMO. Being sexually compatible is a big deal for me as far as long-term relationships go.

That said, I don't look down on the few who want to wait, that's their choice, but it would be a deal break for me in a relationship.
 
Ok guys, I guess once again my sarcasm was too thick....

I know a lot of people that claim they wait till after marriage to have sex. I did have sex before marriage, but not with my wife.

I was just illustrating my amusement at the possible notion of a gay couple "waiting". There are almost countless ironies attached to such a notion, most of which you both listed.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Gay honeymoon?[/quote]
yea, probably. most likely followed by a rise in atheism as people realize the cold, hard truths of the world. After that we might do something about global warming, or have showers spreading from the west
 
[quote name='Tharg The Impaler']yea, probably. most likely followed by a rise in atheism as people realize the cold, hard truths of the world. After that we might do something about global warming, or have showers spreading from the west[/QUOTE]

Afraid the only thing we can do about Global Warming is prepare for it. Unless we invent technology that can change the Sun.
 
I think the next generation will probably try and revert the mistakes of this generation when it comes to certain things. I'll say first off that the argument against gay marriage isn't about sex. Never has, never will. It's religious, pure and simple. Also, it will come to a point where a Church, one that is seperate from the Government will have to allow all marriages (hetero and homo) or else face persecution. This is how it has gone everywhere gay marriage has been legalized before (except for the recent ones).

What will the next generation fight be? Probably anti-global warming. Why? Well, we haven't all burned to death yet. We were told 40 years ago we had 10 years or else we'd all be dead by the turn of the millenium. We were told 10 years ago we had 10 years to change, and we're still being fed that same information today.
 
Remember how Pee-wee Herman used to joke, "If you love it so much, why don't you marry it?" Maybe that will really start to happen. There's already a man in Sudan who married a goat. And I know there's a lady in San Francisco who's waiting for her marriage to the Eiffel Tower to become legally recognized, too.
 
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