Will 3 red rings debacle sink Microsoft this generation?

G

gsr

CAGiversary!
What do you guys think?

Every 360 (including elites if i'm not mistaken) currently out is a ticking time bomb. This could get to the point where the repair time could be like a mail in rebate...8-12 weeks.

If sony is aggressive with their pricing and gets AAA games out this xmas, do you see the 360 falling to 3rd place?
 
Nope. Just look in the coffin thread. You have a bunch of people ok with the 360 being made of shoddy hadware due to MS fixing them for free.

Also, 360 has the best games right now so that helps too.
 
MS currently has the most units out there, so that means games will always be on the 360 this generation (for the most part). So with games driving sales, prices coming down, and MS absorbing the cost (which they can), they'll be fine.
 
Nothing can sink it this generation. Playerbase is there, lineup is there.

I do guarantee that it will limit the first day numbers for next generation though. I think the original xbox crowd will be ticked that they got burned on a short-lived system, and the 360 problem crowd will be ticked at all hardware problems.

This was my first Xbox generation after being a sony/sega owner primarily in the past, and I know it has detered me from buying within the first 2-3 years of a microsoft products lifespan in the future. I thought one year was enough, but it wasn't.

And repair time is already around 6-8 weeks, and that's not even counting if they are repairing your own. That's how long it takes just to get someone else's box. Hopefully the elites work properly, otherwise I'm sure we'll see a string of red-rings in a few months.
 
This generation? Absolutely not. The installed base is there, and that's all that matters. Now, the problem comes in the next generation when MS' system is viewed as being a ticking timebomb thanks to the shoddy hardware they've got right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see people hesitating to buy the next gen MS system given how many failures the 360 is having. Though, MS has wisely decided to fix their hardware with that huge expenditure they're making, so I'd think that people will start to have a little more faith in MS' hardware assuming they really do get their act together. Either way, I don't think poorly constructed hardware could sink a console in and of itself.
 
This generation? No. They already have a very firm lead that will be blown away by the Wii soon, but will COMFORTABLY sit in 2nd place.

However, come next generation Sony and Nintendo will have a great shot at putting MS in third place, and I hope to god Microsoft does some testing on their next gen consoles and learns how to make a profitable system. I can't see Microsoft supporting another console unless there is some sort of guaranteed profit, or very small losses, after losing so much money on the first XBox and now the 360.
 
no.. but it does worry me that the fiirst system that comes out for the next gen will have problems..


ps2 - dde/ dreamcast - launch games blue screening.
xbox 360 - red ring of death
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']I can't see Microsoft supporting another console unless there is some sort of guaranteed profit, or very small losses, after losing so much money on the first XBox and now the 360.[/QUOTE]
On the other side of the coin, I can't see them exiting the market after all the money they've poured into it.

The real reason why you won't see them pull the plug on the entertainment division is this. MS wants to be seen as a growth company, and not a mature company. Its better for their stock price if they're seen as having a lot of growth potential, instead of being a steady, profitable company who has perhaps reached their potential.

Windows and Office were dogs for many years before they turned a profit. It would take a catastrophe of 3DO or Jaguar proportions for them to kill it. As long as they're considered competitive with the rest of the market, they'll keep at it, because the 'potential' will still be there. And if they really get desparate, they'll start shipping consoles with Windows built in, like Bill Gates wanted to.
 
if MS has problems next gen.. they'll pull a sega and just make games..thus just pulling profits on the games minus the losses on systems... and less hassle with the customers..
 
[quote name='DJSteel']if MS has problems next gen.. they'll pull a sega and just make games..thus just pulling profits on the games minus the losses on systems... and less hassle with the customers..[/QUOTE]

How could they do that? They produce almost no games themselves.

And dafoomie's right as far as why MS absolutely won't pull out of the gaming market.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']How could they do that? They produce almost no games themselves.

And dafoomie's right as far as why MS absolutely won't pull out of the gaming market.[/quote]

they publish the games...who makes more money off of Halo MS or bungie??? Sega split into multiple small companies.. and the main company Sega publishes the games...they could do the same thing.. I don't want it to happen but I think that if there is one more issue where they'll have to eat a ton of money they will quit making consoles...
 
[quote name='DJSteel']they publish the games...who makes more money off of Halo MS or bungie??? Sega split into multiple small companies.. and the main company Sega publishes the games...they could do the same thing.. I don't want it to happen but I think that if there is one more issue where they'll have to eat a ton of money they will quit making consoles...[/QUOTE]
Stop comparing Sega and Microsoft. Totally different scenarios. MS could easily go until the end of time with consoles that break even or lose money and not bat an eyelash over it, as long as it keeps competitors from taking over.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Stop comparing Sega and Microsoft. Totally different scenarios. MS could easily go until the end of time with consoles that break even or lose money and not bat an eyelash over it, as long as it keeps competitors from taking over.[/quote]

I'm just using Sega as an example...not to compare... Sega's trouble was that dling and burning games was too easy for pirates that and a lack of third party support. That is not the case of MS...
 
People very quickly forget that for two generations in a row, Sony created shoddy hardware that was, at least initially, very prone to breaking down. Furthermore, Sony never extended the warranty of either the PSX or PS2 to three years. Yet for the most part, the price of the PS3 is what has held it back more than Sony's PSX and PS2 blunders at the beginning of their lifecycles.

In 4-5 years the average consumer won't be thinking about how many 360s broke in 2006 and 2007, they'll be thinking about how much they want to play Halo 5 and GTA 5.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']This generation? No. They already have a very firm lead that will be blown away by the Wii soon, but will COMFORTABLY sit in 2nd place.[/quote]
I don't think either Sony or Microsoft really consider the Wii a part of "this" generation. And they don't consider them competition. Unless you are absolutely convinced that there are a lot of people that would have bought PS3's or 360's instead of Wii's if the Wii didn't exist.

However, come next generation Sony and Nintendo will have a great shot at putting MS in third place, and I hope to god Microsoft does some testing on their next gen consoles and learns how to make a profitable system. I can't see Microsoft supporting another console unless there is some sort of guaranteed profit, or very small losses, after losing so much money on the first XBox and now the 360.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree.

Microsoft's main goal in entering the console market was not to make a profit on it. Their main goal was to beat Sony to taking over the living room. Their main goal won't even be realized for another 5-10 years or so.

When Microsoft got into the console race they were planning ahead 10-20 years when they knew the livingroom would become true next technology battleground with technologies that don't quite exist yet. They saw Sony shooting ahead as the convergence leader and they couldn't have it. The CEO of Sony made some remark in the early 90's about their biggest fear being Microsoft entering the Market. This was 7 or 8 years before the Xbox. The reason is he understood where the future convergence technologies would take place, which would require advanced software, not just hardware.
 
[quote name='Halo05']People very quickly forget that for two generations in a row, Sony created shoddy hardware that was, at least initially, very prone to breaking down. Furthermore, Sony never extended the warranty of either the PSX or PS2 to three years. Yet for the most part, the price of the PS3 is what has held it back more than Sony's PSX and PS2 blunders at the beginning of their lifecycles.

In 4-5 years the average consumer won't be thinking about how many 360s broke in 2006 and 2007, they'll be thinking about how much they want to play Halo 5 and GTA 5.[/quote]

they couldn't afford to extend the warranties...MS has deep deep pockets..but their profits will hurt big time with the extended warranty..another thing you got to realize is that consoles in the last gen averaged 199.99 - 249.99, now it's 249.99 - 499.99.. add in the fact you either push your customers away with shoddy consoles and lose money or extend the warranties and lose even more money...
 
[quote name='Halo05']People very quickly forget that for two generations in a row, Sony created shoddy hardware that was, at least initially, very prone to breaking down. Furthermore, Sony never extended the warranty of either the PSX or PS2 to three years. Yet for the most part, the price of the PS3 is what has held it back more than Sony's PSX and PS2 blunders at the beginning of their lifecycles.

In 4-5 years the average consumer won't be thinking about how many 360s broke in 2006 and 2007, they'll be thinking about how much they want to play Halo 5 and GTA 5.[/quote]

Not to discredit the position you're taking, but the 360's hardware failures are considerably more widespread, and are pretty much almost guaranteed to happen to every console out now... Which is a shame... And I think more than they would like, MS is going to suffer a bit with this one. (only time will tell.)

I think the position will be difficult... The press is not going to let MS forget how many consoles have broken... and when the new generation comes around, we're going to see it brought up, not unlike they brought up the PS2 flaws when the PS3 came out (turns out the PS3 is a damn solid piece of hardware.... but the point still stands...) And how long ago was the PS2's intro?
 
[quote name='Halo05']Furthermore, Sony never extended the warranty of either the PSX or PS2 to three years.[/QUOTE]

Sony didn't extend the warranty, but they did offer free repairs on systems with "disc read errors" for a while (though they didn't pay for shipping).

Either way the Playstation 2 was definately prone to breaking. I got a free repair on mine with a disc read error and it broke a week later. I then got it replaced and it broke a few months after that, by that time they weren't offering free repairs. My original Xbox broke as well, consoles breaking is nothing new.
 
[quote name='gsr']If sony is aggressive with their pricing and gets AAA games out this xmas, do you see the 360 falling to 3rd place?[/quote]

Can't...stop...laughing :lol:
 
[quote name='DJSteel']i never had a nintendo break...[/quote]


Neither have I, but I've only had a Gamcube. :) I've also never had a Playstation die on me either... the only console I've ever had problems with is the XBox... So far, my 360 has worked for me, but judging from the repair thread... I don't put much stock in it lasting... And that's a shame...

The magnitude of the breakage is what bothers me. I mean, 3 and 4 consoles for some people... that doesn't bode well, to be honest. *shrug* Maybe Microsoft can PR their way out of this one like the "dirty disc" problems with the XBox...

I'm almost certain there's going to be at least some negative feedback that will hamper their plans to conquer the living room... but how much and how long-term is another matter...
 
Sink? No. Hurt their bottom line a ton? Definitely. It will take a long time to make up the $1 billion they lost by extending the warranties to 3 years, and it defintely will scare off some potential buyers.

There's a lot of games I want out and coming soon, but $400 is too much for a console for me to begin with, and the fact that I'm almost guaranteed to have to hassle with a repair at some point is a swift kick in the nuts when combined with the price.

As such I'm at least waiting for a $100 price drop, and maybe for the new 65nm chips before even considering taking the plunge.
 
It won't sink them but I know a lot of people who were PS guys that became 360 guys and of course everyone of them had theirs break and even though they love the games they have had enough. I'm sure a lot of people who would have picked up a 360 have held off cause of how many people 's system has died.
 
No, the PS3 is too expensive and lacks AAA titles while the Wii won't have the graphics edge. However this move could well destroy any chance of the 360 producing a profit over the system life.
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']Neither have I, but I've only had a Gamcube. :) I've also never had a Playstation die on me either... the only console I've ever had problems with is the XBox... So far, my 360 has worked for me, but judging from the repair thread... I don't put much stock in it lasting... And that's a shame...

The magnitude of the breakage is what bothers me. I mean, 3 and 4 consoles for some people... that doesn't bode well, to be honest.[/QUOTE]

it sucks that these problems are so prevalent. ms has been VERY responsive however. my current ps2 is my 4th as is my 360, however i spent $400 on those 360's and roughly $780 on the ps2's. the only thign that gets me is the trouble swapping a 360 out causes to your dlc.
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']Sony didn't extend the warranty, but they did offer free repairs on systems with "disc read errors" for a while (though they didn't pay for shipping).

Either way the Playstation 2 was definately prone to breaking. I got a free repair on mine with a disc read error and it broke a week later. I then got it replaced and it broke a few months after that, by that time they weren't offering free repairs. My original Xbox broke as well, consoles breaking is nothing new.[/QUOTE]

That's because Sony got slapped with a class action lawsuit. Microsoft is trying to avoid DIRECTLY admitting fault with this move to extend the warranties and also avoid getting sued big-time like Sony did because of the DREs. They don't necessarily admit to problems, but they do acknowledge them.

Also, whoever said it will take MS a long time to recover the $1 billion loss? Mmm. Nope. For the gaming division, of course, but the company as a whole? Nope.

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=16162

$51 billion in revenue. That's just crazy. But only a $3 billion profit? Even crazier.
 
of course their company won't hurt from it.... that isn't hard to realize, Windows is everywhere, Office the norm, etc...and I don't think that this will hurt them as a company, but I do think this will affect their gaming division.
 
Microsofts good at looking at the big picture its why their so successful whether you love them or hate them you have to admit that. They understand that home entertainment and getting products out of your computer room and into your living room is where things will eventually go. So I see them continuing to push this till they succeed I really don't think this stuff will set their game division back to much but I'd almost guaranttee that some people lose their jobs as a result of this debaucle.
 
It won't sink the ship because Microsoft has enough money to pour into the the thing forever if they choose.

I think what really matters is how widespread the information gets, as of now most parents probably don't know every system will potentially break, but if when they go to grab one in the store the employees all tell them about the problems I think sales will hurt for a while (even after it's fixed).

The real question is when will an updated system hit the shelves
 
The only way anything is sinking over at Microsoft is if they release Battleship on XBLA, and I take out their aircraft carrier with stunning strategery.
 
It will probably kill the Xbox brand and they're going to come out with something new. The sales of the console have officially collapsed compared to the same period in 2006.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']That's because Sony got slapped with a class action lawsuit. Microsoft is trying to avoid DIRECTLY admitting fault with this move to extend the warranties and also avoid getting sued big-time like Sony did because of the DREs. They don't necessarily admit to problems, but they do acknowledge them.

Also, whoever said it will take MS a long time to recover the $1 billion loss? Mmm. Nope. For the gaming division, of course, but the company as a whole? Nope.

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=16162

$51 billion in revenue. That's just crazy. But only a $3 billion profit? Even crazier.[/quote]

First of all Microsoft has already had several class action lawsuits filed against them for the 360 breaking. The 3 year warranty extension was in light of the most recent one.

Secondly it doesn't matter what other divisions of Microsoft make. Corporations like that have each division as a seperate entity so the losses the gaming division take can't be hidden by profits from other sectors. You can try to hide losses by saying the rest of the company is doing well but it doesn't change the fact they are taking huge losses that they shouldnt be taking. No excuse for the quality of this system.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']Secondly it doesn't matter what other divisions of Microsoft make. Corporations like that have each division as a seperate entity so the losses the gaming division take can't be hidden by profits from other sectors. You can try to hide losses by saying the rest of the company is doing well but it doesn't change the fact they are taking huge losses that they shouldnt be taking. No excuse for the quality of this system.[/quote]

Quite right. Once the shareholders see this, they're apt to say 'fuck it'.
 
No, but I hope this ends the INSANITY on eBay with systems being scalped.

Sony and M$ have had there share of problems with their systems, yet I don't ever recall Nintendo having massive problems. That is what M$ needs to shoot for if they want to gain more of a foothold internationally and domestically. Halo alone won't help if the failure rate is high again next time. At least they are stepping up and repairing systems though.
 
No. I still fully expect them to both take 2nd place (to the Wii), AND possibly be profitable.

Of course, if they lower the core price to $200 this year, and plug it hard, then it could definitely overtake the Wii.
 
I think if the system sales increase during the Halo 3 release(which they will) customers are going to be none to happy if the system tanks.
 
Plus MS is putting their new chipset in the 360's soon, so they should run smoother whether you send it in or buy one.....but hey my launch console is going strong so w/e.

They are putting new heatsinks in the 360's. Sorry for the confusion
 
[quote name='slickkill77']Plus MS is putting there new chipset in the 360's so they should run smoother whether you send it in or buy one.....but hey my launch console is going strong so w/e[/quote]

Where did you see that they are putting a new chipset in if you send it in?
 
They arent. There isn't even a new date for the chipset and you will still get random replacements that can be OLDER then your 360 if yours breaks. Hell if your new chip model breaks you could theoretically get one back with old chips.

Also there is no proof at all that the new chips will even reduce the failure rates. It's all speculation that they might help.


Guile what problems did the PS3 have? It's the one system where i have heard of no problems with hardware whatsoever aside from the controls desynching sometimes.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']Guile what problems did the PS3 have? It's the one system where i have heard of no problems with hardware whatsoever aside from the controls desynching sometimes.[/quote]

That was the main problem I heard as well with the PS3. They haven't had as much trouble with it as with PS One and 2. With Sony it seems to take a bit before things break down. I had an early model Playstation in 1996 that didn't start skipping until a year after purchase.
 
I bought my 360 used so I'd be surprised if MS fixed it even for a price. I try not to play for more than 2-3 hours at a time, but I've noticed it gets very hot in only a few minutes. Do the 3rd parts snap on fans help at all? I've even read on Amazon that Nyko's Intercooler may have a defect that will kill my 360. Is there anything we can do to prolong the life of our 360s? I make sure nothing is around mine so it can get as much air in and out as possible. Does it seem to matter whether the system is horizontal or vertical?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top