With unemployment being so high, why are there a TON of crappy workers?

lilboo

lilboo

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We all hear about how high unemployment is. We all hear about how hard it is to find a job. OK. With so many people looking for work, wouldn't you think company's would pick the best out of the best? To me, this makes perfect sense. If I had a company that was hiring, and a bunch of people needed jobs..well, lucky for me I'd get to pick the absolute best of the bunch!.. Right???? I mean this all sounds so logical to me!

Lately, at places like diners and retail..the service has been awful. I normally don't care too much about customer service as I've worked it before. I understand after awhile it just.. gets to you! ...but this one waiter was horrible. We got to this dinner at 11:45pm and they closed at 12 (we didn't know, actually). The manager was still letting people in after 12 and our waiter was getting P.O'd.. lol..and just.. was awful. I expect just basic customer service, that's all. That was one experience. I've had a TON of rude cashiers lately, too!

I can't say I have some super awesome long term job, but it pays pretty well and our company is fairly new and upcoming. There's lots of options to move up, so it's a good thing...but...they hire such wastes. The people there act very much like we are in high school, however, they are in their late 20s and UP...up to about 40's-50's. Maybe I'm just not with this crowd of people at work.. lol

For example, people from my work totally ignore certain dress codes and other policies...and they actually spend more time taking pictures of themselves in their cubicle at work.

I wonder as to why things are like that? Not that I wish to work in an uptight environment, but at the same time we need some professionalism. I am by far the prime example of professional..but.. I'm there to work and that's it.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7100084_n.jpg

Here's just one example. That's actually from a friend of a friend's...friend.. (lol Facebook is out of control)

That's actually a worker on the clock at work.

So besides the people at my job, and the unfortunate experiences I've been having lately..what's your take on this? Are there a lot of "undeserving" people with jobs out there?
 
How it's always been and always will be. People just don't give a shit.

I believe the sentiment goes something like 'If you hire and train the best workers they're just going to bail when the economy picks up.'
 
I'll keep this short , since it's way too early in the morning for me and I should really be in bed (need to be at work at 9am :lol::headache:).

I do agree with a lot of what you said , however part of the problem is that once you hire someone it's often hard to get rid of them. My mom is a supervisor at JCPenny's and she knows this first hand. She wishes she could fire half the people there because they don't work very hard , but she doesn't have the power to , and even if she did then it would just make getting the job done even harder (a worthless body is still somewhat better than no body at all).

On a slightly related note. Something I've noticed from my own work experience is an increase in the number of customers with shitty attitudes. When your job involves being nice and helpful to customers and they treat you like crap it unfortunately tends to get passed on to other , undeserving customers. The Ratio of pleasant/nice customers to total assholes has titled far too much to the one side and it's really making me dislike coming to work.

[quote name='cochesecochese']People just don't give a shit.[/QUOTE]

Sadly this too. Unfortunately this attitude is often fostered both by customers you deal with (varies by job of course) and by the company you work for itself. Even myself , I'm starting to give in to this attitude , because when you try and go out of your way to help someone and it's still not good enough for them , then why should you keep caring.
 
StarKnight pretty much has it correct. A lot of companies now have essentially neutered managers ability to fire or even admonish employees for fear of wrongful termination and / or discrimination lawsuits. In the long run it's cheaper to keep a crappy employee then it is to pay out a seven figure settlement after said crappy employee gets fired and decides to play the sexual harassment card.
 
My fiance noticed this at his work, and there's only like 20 people in the US branch of his company. People are getting even LAZIER and yet they bitch more and more about how much their job sucks even when they refuse to do the basics.
 
This is.. a "lead" at my job. I don't understand the term, but they are basically underneath the supervisors at our department.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...13878489987_1321429468_30884401_1003222_n.jpg

This was for at least 30 minutes like this.. :roll:


Oh, ok..and here is a pic of a nice gentleman who sits behind me.

1218092301.jpg
 
I can sympathize with service workers, especially those on commission. I suspect their earnings have been hurt substantially - as people try to reign in their spending, they cut out where they can. Tipping is an easy thing to cut out.

Your lead looks like someone you should fuck with.
 
[quote name='lilboo']...but this one waiter was horrible. We got to this dinner at 11:45pm and they closed at 12 (we didn't know, actually). The manager was still letting people in after 12 and our waiter was getting P.O'd.. lol..and just.. was awful.[/QUOTE]

I think you answered your own question. Employers are taking full advantage of the economy to squeeze a few more bucks out of employees. Because really - as an employee where are you going to go in this economy?

Tired employees don't function well, you wouldn't expect an exhausted waiter who is possibly working 2 or 3 part-time jobs to be happy when he's getting squeezed to work unscheduled graveyard shift OT.

There is no excuse for bad service, I'm just saying I would not put all the blame the employee when it's more likely a by-product of drama caused by bad management.

Those office pictures are simply awful. There is absolutely no excuse for sleeping on the job like that.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']He may not be sleeping. He might be slouching.[/QUOTE]

He sits diagonal from me. He was sleeping.
 
[quote name='lilboo']He sits diagonal from me. He was sleeping.[/QUOTE]

But he's got to be in a convo, he had the phone in his hand. In his hand.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Unions. That's why.[/QUOTE]

For kicks I did a search for waiter union. I got a few nothing but stale congressional testimony, dept of labor statistics, and some fringe Christian cults.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Unions. That's why.[/QUOTE]

MTV, Playstation, and McDonald's.

See, I can play the game of "post-hoc shoehorning your ideology into a political argument with little effort," too.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']MTV, Playstation, and McDonald's.

See, I can play the game of "post-hoc shoehorning your ideology into a political argument with little effort," too.[/QUOTE]

You play the game well, my friend.
 
To be fair, I do kinda believe that argument of mine.

As a first-world country, we're all about living a life of leisure and consumption, and less interested in what truly matters (whatever that may be). We're made vulnerable, pudgy and lazy by virtue of our largesse.

Though I'm not sure that's an exact excuse for why lilboo's boss was napping. Was it a late night of Modern Warfare 2, or was it something else? ;)
 
As much as this is gonna sound hypocritical within this thread , I really wish I had a job where I could nap on the clock.:D

Hell , I'd even take a job where I could surf the web while working. So much of my off time ends up being "wasted" browsing the internet when I could be doing more "productive" things like watching movies , playing video games or catching up on my reading.:lol:
 
Truth of the matter - "good" employees won't work for the crap wages paid by crap jobs. So they end up with crap employees.

If the jobs would pay better, they'd get a better class of employee.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']What do you do Lilboo?[/QUOTE]

I work at this heart monitoring company. Make appointments with people who go to the doctor and get a prescription, and then end up letting them know how to use it :roll::roll: it's bad boring, but.. it's in the healthcare field so our benefits are pretty good. So is our pay, for what it is.

[quote name='UncleBob']Truth of the matter - "good" employees won't work for the crap wages paid by crap jobs. So they end up with crap employees.

If the jobs would pay better, they'd get a better class of employee.[/QUOTE]


So what exactly qualifies a crappy, low paying job? Everyone in our department starts at 35-40K. I guess this is basically why I'm so confused with how things are run here. When I was working at places like Wal-Mart and Kohls, I made like $7-$8 an hour and could care less. Now that I make money that I can actually live on.. I seem to care.

This is also why I don't know why or how people from my job get away with this. Again with this paying decently, there are a lot of people who can use a job with good benefits...and yet, these people take up space.
 
[quote name='lilboo']So what exactly qualifies a crappy, low paying job? Everyone in our department starts at 35-40K.[/QUOTE]

In your OP, you say "diners and retail" - so I assumed we were mostly talking about that...

But not to "crap" on your job, but I'm hoping that 35-40K figure is post-tax. Otherwise, it's not a whole world more than I make working an hourly, non-supervisor position at Walmart. 35K, at a 40 hour work week is only $16.82/hour (pre-tax). It might not be "crap", but it's not something I'd put in the Christmas cards...
 
I honestly don't know why people don't care about their job. I have a job and only work during the summer, but in this economy, I do everything I can to keep it. I never take days off, I never show up late, I never leave early, I always finish the job in a timely matter, etc. If people don't care about their job, I guess it's their loss. Because if they get fired, there's a million other people there to fill their spot.
 
It might help if the manager cares. I had a manager that spent all day playing bejeweled on her facebook. We can hear it all the way in our room since she turns the speaker on.
 
I think the problem with a lot of service jobs is many are still held by high school-college aged kids mainly just doing it for spending money. I didn't give a crap about those jobs back in the day.

Though, I've seen plenty of older employees in retail etc. being lazy and rude. People just suck these days.

And of course, that's not related to desk jobs like lilboo's company. That fall's back on the people just suck these days part. :D
 
If you've ever taken an 'entry-level job' at a big company, you know that they give you the whole pitch about how it's a great opportunity to 'move ahead and 'grow with the company'. But the company doesn't really have any interest in you doing that. The people at the top horde the money and only promote their friends, friends' kids, good looking people, etc. They don't give a fuck about the quality of your work. That's why sups and managers are always lifers (the hard workers) or only there for the 6 months to a year before they can get their next promotion (the fast-trackers).

Middle management is afraid that anyone who's bright and applies themselves may take their own jobs soon, so expect your life to suck if you're good at your job. Oh, and newsflash: companies don't really want you to get a raise, nor do they want you to promote or transfer (cause then they have to find another body to do a shit job). They just tell you what you want to hear to get you in the door. This amounts to both your company and your manager actually being happier with people who suck and don't give a shit. They're no threat and will work at that shit entry-level job forever or until you fire them. The hard worker gets discourages and quits to pursue what has become the american pipe dream at another company just like the one he/she's leaving. The slacker? They're hoping to get fired so they can collect unemployment. Not a tough choice for an employer.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']I honestly don't know why people don't care about their job. I have a job and only work during the summer, but in this economy, I do everything I can to keep it. I never take days off, I never show up late, I never leave early, I always finish the job in a timely matter, etc. If people don't care about their job, I guess it's their loss. Because if they get fired, there's a million other people there to fill their spot.[/QUOTE]

Retail is the absolute worst industry to work in, especially in this economy. Just about every major retailer is cutting back staffing, and placing a greater burden on management to get more done with less. Salary management in retail is tantamount to slavery. You will work between 60-70 hours a week, and often work 9 or 10 days in a row without a break. The reason people don't care about their job is because management is run ragged and they themselves don't care. Watch the movie Office Space, it may have been based around office type work, but the themes and situations in that film are pretty much interchangeable with retail.
 
[quote name='atreyue']The slacker? They're hoping to get fired so they can collect unemployment. Not a tough choice for an employer.[/QUOTE]

Everybody in my department gets a new supervisor every 6-12 months. There is a mandatory shift swap for supervisors.

Whenever I get a new supervisor, I take him or her aside to discuss my continued employment. I explain to them that unemployment will pay 67% of my pay for twelve months and that I'm paying nearly 40% of my pay in daycare expenses. I also explain to him or her that not having to drive to work each day saves me nearly two hours a day and that I can make around $300 a month reselling games on eBay. At the end of the conversation, I let him or her know that I would appreciate being fired at any time.

After that conversation, my supervisors have scored me very highly.
 
That's a great point. I've noticed that probably over the last 10 years or so service has in general been miserable, products are increasingly faulty. It seems like quality of everything has gone down significantly.

I really make a point to send an email or letter to companies where I have good experiences becaue they really do stand out more, and if my experience is bad enough, I'll send a letter stating how bad the services were.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Everybody in my department gets a new supervisor every 6-12 months. There is a mandatory shift swap for supervisors.

Whenever I get a new supervisor, I take him or her aside to discuss my continued employment. I explain to them that unemployment will pay 67% of my pay for twelve months and that I'm paying nearly 40% of my pay in daycare expenses. I also explain to him or her that not having to drive to work each day saves me nearly two hours a day and that I can make around $300 a month reselling games on eBay. At the end of the conversation, I let him or her know that I would appreciate being fired at any time.

After that conversation, my supervisors have scored me very highly.[/QUOTE]

LOL, it's like letting your boss know your being headhunted by another better company. Unemployment will be the best job out there after universal heath care kicks in. No one will be able to compete with its job security, hours or benefits!
 
[quote name='atreyue']LOL, it's like letting your boss know your being headhunted by another better company. Unemployment will be the best job out there after universal heath care kicks in. No one will be able to compete with its job security, hours or benefits![/QUOTE]

I'm curious as to how this universal health care thing is going to work out, and how it is going to affect the quality of future employees in the USA. If everyone gets it for free with no work requirements, I'm willing to bet there are alot of people who will opt for unemployment. And then there will probably be many people who will say "fuck it" and voluntarily work part time for pocket money and don't give a shit because their their healthcare benefits are secured.

And bosses hate it when they find out you're just working for fun money, especially if you are an older, experienced worker. It means they can't bully you around, and threatening you with unemployment would serve no purpose.
 
[quote name='Spacepest']I'm curious as to how this universal health care thing is going to work out, and how it is going to affect the quality of future employees in the USA. If everyone gets it for free with no work requirements, I'm willing to bet there are alot of people who will opt for unemployment. And then there will probably be many people who will say "fuck it" and voluntarily work part time for pocket money and don't give a shit because their their healthcare benefits are secured.

And bosses hate it when they find out you're just working for fun money, especially if you are an older, experienced worker. It means they can't bully you around, and threatening you with unemployment would serve no purpose.[/QUOTE]

No one's getting health care for free. The current plan forces people to buy health care and fines you if you don't get it. You'll get a subsidy if you're poor but not enough for most people at least to forgo employment just for that reason, especially in this economy.
 
[quote name='dopa345']No one's getting health care for free. The current plan forces people to buy health care and fines you if you don't get it. You'll get a subsidy if you're poor but not enough for most people at least to forgo employment just for that reason, especially in this economy.[/QUOTE]

A threat followed by something neutralizing the threat isn't a threat.

Government: Hey, Mr. Full Time Worker, buy health care or we'll fine you.

Worker: Not a problem. I've bought insurance through my employer for the last 5 years.

...

Government: Hey, Mr. Part Time Worker, buy health care or we'll fine you.

Worker: I can't afford it. You'll just have to fine me.

Government: No, no, no. We'll pay for your insurance first. Then, we won't have to fine you.

...

Spacepest is right.

People with no aspirations of owning a house, sending their kids through college or even having a well-adjusted child might loaf. Then again, they might join organizations they agree with and work for them at a greatly reduced rate of pay.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Retail is the absolute worst industry to work in, especially in this economy. Just about every major retailer is cutting back staffing, and placing a greater burden on management to get more done with less. Salary management in retail is tantamount to slavery. You will work between 60-70 hours a week, and often work 9 or 10 days in a row without a break. The reason people don't care about their job is because management is run ragged and they themselves don't care. Watch the movie Office Space, it may have been based around office type work, but the themes and situations in that film are pretty much interchangeable with retail.[/QUOTE]

Amen, spmahn. I am in retail. It is either dealing with people that simply do not care and when things are a little tough, they either threaten you or try to bully you with "the lawyer" crap. This comes from not only customers, but your employees as well. Salary management is not only slavery, it is like a rough gang bang with no wining or dining and no lube. Yes, there are people that are less fortunate and I do feel for the people that work for me that work their tail off and at the same time, try to toe the company line. I invite anyone who says their job is so rough, try retail for 2 weeks in the economy we are currently in. That is why there is so much turnover. Restaurant work is not much better.
 
"I can't say I have some super awesome long term job, but it pays pretty well and our company is fairly new and upcoming. There's lots of options to move up, so it's a good thing...but...they hire such wastes. The people there act very much like we are in high school, however, they are in their late 20s and UP...up to about 40's-50's. Maybe I'm just not with this crowd of people at work.. lol"

One thing you'll learn as you go through life is that your average american's social skills quit developing at the age of roughly 17. This is why when you go to nightclubs and bars and such, people group together and tend to not stray from that group. This happens at all levels from complete morons (who fear those that they perceive to be intellectual superiors) to the genius kids who scoff at the morons. Once the average person's judgements and values are "set" as to whom their peer group will be, that doesn't often get shoaken.
 
[quote name='nasum']"I can't say I have some super awesome long term job, but it pays pretty well and our company is fairly new and upcoming. There's lots of options to move up, so it's a good thing...but...they hire such wastes. The people there act very much like we are in high school, however, they are in their late 20s and UP...up to about 40's-50's. Maybe I'm just not with this crowd of people at work.. lol"

One thing you'll learn as you go through life is that your average american's social skills quit developing at the age of roughly 17. This is why when you go to nightclubs and bars and such, people group together and tend to not stray from that group. This happens at all levels from complete morons (who fear those that they perceive to be intellectual superiors) to the genius kids who scoff at the morons. Once the average person's judgements and values are "set" as to whom their peer group will be, that doesn't often get shoaken.[/QUOTE]

You must live in a small town or the midwest.
 
You want to know why your cashiers are crabby? Let me tell you my story, it should shed some light.

At the end of 2008, I'd just gotten a promotion to full time that I'd been waiting for for 5 years (small store, and the FT positions rarely vacate.) I'd get a raise, benefits in 90 days, and could start planning on good things like moving out of my parents place (You try getting a decent place in the Seattle area on less than $10/hour before taxes.)

A month later, I get told our store didn't earn quite as much money as corporate wanted, and we were getting downgraded... and my newly accquired FT position was being eliminated. I could either drop back down to my old PT hours, or lose my job altogether- which I can't do, since my mom broke her knee in 2007, got fucked over by her employer/union and lost her job, and money was getting tight. So I go back to my PT hours... meaning I now have to do the same job I was doing at FT, but with less hours and no benefits. (I was actually one of the lucky ones, since I got to keep the pay raise.)

It's now a little over a year later. My mom still can't find work due to her knee issues. My brother was laid off in favor of 2 low paid immigrants and had to move back home. My dad had his hours cut and coudln't pay the bills. I've lent my parents $2500 -2 years worth of savings, and all I had available- to keep us afloat until his hours go back up in Feburary. We just borrowed $800 from grandparents to pay for a temporary fix on a sewer main break so we can (hopefully) save up the $6000 we'll need to replace it before the pipe collapses. My sister just borrowed $700 from grandparents to pay for a new distributor on her car, and has mentioned to my mom that her and her fiance might have to move in when their lease expires so they can get their fiances in order- despite the fact that we don't really have the room to accomdate 2 more people, their pets, and their stuff.

I go to work, and spend my hours desperately trying to do a FT job on PT hours, in between getting yelled at by customers who mis-read the ad and got charged 78 cents more than they thought, or shoplifters who can't use their ill-gotten credit to buy American Express gift cards.

I apologize if I seem upset when you get to the counter, but as you can imagine, I'm a little stressed right now. I'm holding out hope for my fiance and the promotion he's been offered, so I can get the heck out before I lose the CD account we want for a house down payment to family obligations.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Things are bad for you and yours, yes - but that's independent of working retail.

We're all a little stressed right now.[/QUOTE]

Which would be the point I'm trying to make... I'm stressed, my customers are stressed (since despite everything going on, I know I'm actually quite well off to still have a home, a job, and family I can turn to in need- I'm sure the same cannot be said for everyone that comes in my store). You ever come home after a bad day, find out somebody took the last chicken patty/ice cream bar/pepsi/whatever, and it's just enough to make you snap?

With everyone 1 thin dinner mint away from exploding, something as simple as asking for a price check can be enough to crack that fake cheerful facade and let the jaded, stressed employee underneath blow a little steam. Similarly, I think some folks are seeing rudeness where there is none (say, a cashier answering the phone mid-transaction), simply because things have been so bad they now expect the worst.

As for why these stressed to the point of rudness folks aren't being fired, two things come to mind: either the bosses with the ability to fire are too stressed themselves to bother checking for just cause to get rid of folks, or becuase despite their stressed state, they still get a lot done. There are 3 other people in my store with the same position as me- and at any given time, I'm doing 60-80% of our collective workload. I realize I am not always as nice to the customers as they deserve (I do try to 'keep it in'), but I still seem to be very much wanted around since I get things done. The newest of my same position co-workers, however, has had numerous complaints brought up from both staff and customers- but either they don't tell the main manager or wait until quite some time after whatever incident happened to bring it up- if he can't catch 'em in the act, he can't really do anything about it.

Long story short, it's all tied together... no recession means lots of jobs and happy employees finding great options, and getting perks from companies who can afford it. Recession means almost not jobs and stressed employees scraping at a few terrible options, hoping to get enough together to keep their families fed and in a home from companies who've abandoned employee morale in order to keep up their bottom line.

It pretty much just sucks right now.
 
I can echo DuelLadyS sentiments.

I have a 19 hour credit load and I work roughly 20 hours a week at...McDonalds. Even then, it was a miracle to get this job considering local unemployment is nearing 24%+. I had to go through two interviews and write a "statement of intent" to get this job. All this for minimum wage, no benefits, and forced part time (with no option for full-time ever, even during the summer). It's a blessing and a curse. I'm thankful for having work and some kind of income coming in....but they treat us like slaves.

And the thing is, I've worked for McDonalds in the past. It wasn't like this, a lot of it has to do with the nature of the economy.

The only thing I have going for me is I may have my CNA license soon, and even then I still have to find work. Further, I'll have my degree in about a year, but white collar work is virtually non-existent. That's okay for now, I'll be going to grad school and getting my Masters in Healthcare Adminstration, but that makes things rough.

The only thing going for me is that I can keep things tied together and that I do have substanial savings that I have built up incase shit hits the fan.

Oh, and plasma money, thank God for that. :D

So any CAGers out there that are suffering, you're in my prayers. I completely understand and I hope things improve.
 
[quote name='DuelLadyS']With everyone 1 thin dinner mint away from exploding[/QUOTE]

It's only waffer-theen.

I see your point, but I don't take things out on other people who are periphery to larger experiences. That said, I'm also in a position where I don't get put there a lot. I'm a teacher, so I have a large amount of control and power in relation to others. But I also don't abuse it or get into power trips.

It's been a number of years since I had a service job where I had to do the 'corporate' thing (I was a barista and a bartender the last time I worked service, back in 2004-2005). Bartending is great because you have power and control, then, too.

So while I see your point I don't agree with getting shitty with people. I also don't agree that people in service are lazy and shitty compared to yesteryear - but I do think that people are lazy and shitty (and we misinterpret people's laziness and shittiness as a new thing, when we were just children in the past).
 
The new fulltime is two part time jobs.

If you are lucky you get a part time job which gives you 38 hours per week (just a little less to avoid even mediocre benefits) that you can get technically live off of.
 
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