Would you vote to confirm Roberts?

elprincipe

CAGiversary!
Feedback
60 (100%)
Also please explain why or why not.

I would because, listening to the hearings, I feel he is a very intelligent guy, has promised to interpret the Constitution strictly and fairly, and has a record of doing such.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Also please explain why or why not.

I would because, listening to the hearings, I feel he is a very intelligent guy, has promised to interpret the Constitution strictly and fairly, and has a record of doing such.[/QUOTE]

i would for exactly those reasons. plus, i've seen no major reasons not to confirm him.
 
IMO we need someone without a history of politics.

We need a impartial judge, lest you forget that this position is a lifetime appointment for the head of the supreme court.
 
Yes, due to the fact that I'd want to be able to vote against the next appointment. If I voted for roberts then republicans couldn't accuse me of just voting against anyone bush nominates. Though, I personaly hate the thought of him being head justice.

It's better to fight one battle and win, than 5 battles and lose 5, which seems to be the mind set of many people on both sides.
 
Of course I would. He is the best qualified for the role. See all my other comments in the Roberts thread below.
 
Ruth Bader Ginsburg evaded each and every single difficult question put to her. She was general counsel for the ACLU for chrissakes and still gathered 93 Senate votes.

You really need to learn that winning and losing elections have consequences.

It's not politics that should keep you on or off the USSC it's qualifications. She was qualified so is Roberts. Actually he's probably better qualified than any person that's been appointed in 20 years.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I dunno from what Ive seen he kinda sidestepped the more difficult questions[/QUOTE]

Please give an example of an answer he could have given to the "more difficult questions" that would not indicate that he may be biased and hence not suitable for the supreme court.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Ruth Bader Ginsburg evaded each and every single difficult question put to her. She was general counsel for the ACLU for chrissakes and still gathered 93 Senate votes.

You really need to learn that winning and losing elections have consequences.

It's not politics that should keep you on or off the USSC it's qualifications. She was qualified so is Roberts. Actually he's probably better qualified than any person that's been appointed in 20 years.[/QUOTE]

Next time a democrat is in office I'll have to remind you not to fight any policies or nominations that they propose, since that is the consequence of losing an election.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Next time a democrat is in office I'll have to remind you not to fight any policies or nominations that they propose, since that is the consequence of losing an election.[/QUOTE]

See you in 2020.
 
Probably not.

I think he's a very intelligent guy, but I do not like how he basically stalled for two days of confirmation hearings. I came away from listening to/reading about the confirmation hearings with just as much knowledge about the guy as I had before (well, I guess I now know that he likes "Dr. Zhivago" and "North by Northwest", but still).

What a waste of time.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Ruth Bader Ginsburg evaded each and every single difficult question put to her. She was general counsel for the ACLU for chrissakes and still gathered 93 Senate votes.

You really need to learn that winning and losing elections have consequences.

It's not politics that should keep you on or off the USSC it's qualifications. She was qualified so is Roberts. Actually he's probably better qualified than any person that's been appointed in 20 years.[/QUOTE]

Clinton wasn't even thinking of nominating Ginsberg. She was suggested to him by Orrin Hatch, which is why she sailed through because the repubs didn't have a problem with her.


I would vote no on Roberts because he only has 2 YEARS experience as a judge. If you are going to be the head of the Supreme Court, in my mind, you need more experience than that. There is also the fact that the White House STILL has not released all the records on Roberts that was requested.
 
Senators don't recommend justices to Presidents. I suggest you find some kind of proof that there was a Republican Senator choosing a justice for a Democratic President.

The reason she sailed through was that her legal experience and education made her qualified from a legal standpoint. USSC justices weren't political targets the way Democrats have made them see; Bork, Thomas. Republicans haven't challenged a USSC nominee put forth by a Democrat on idealogical grounds.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Senators don't recommend justices to Presidents. I suggest you find some kind of proof that there was a Republican Senator choosing a justice for a Democratic President.[/QUOTE]

Wow. I'm new to this side of the forums, but PAD, are you really this ignorant? This is common knowledge. And if you didn't know it, you really have no business posting on this subject.

ZarathosNY is completely right. Clinton approached his court nominees with true bipartisanship, unlike the failed President Bush.

That's one reason Roberts is an easy no. As a judge, he's a complete neophyte with very few rulings to review and scrutinize. He needed to answer those questions, and he didn't. He failed the test.

From Hatch's autobiography:


It was not a surprise when the President called to talk about the appointment and what he was thinking of doing.

President Clinton indicated he was leaning toward nominating Bruce Babbitt, his Secretary of the Interior, a name that had been bouncing around in the press. Bruce, a well-known western Democrat, had been the governor of Arizona and a candidate for president in 1988. Although he had been a state attorney general back during the 1970s, he was known far more for his activities as a politician than as a jurist. Clinton asked for my reaction.

I told him that confirmation would not be easy. At least one Democrat would probably vote against Bruce, and there would be a great deal of resistance from the Republican side. I explained to the President that although he might prevail in the end, he should consider whether he wanted a tough, political battle over his first appointment to the Court.

Our conversation moved to other potential candidates. I asked whether he had considered Judge Stephen Breyer of the First Circuit Court of Appeals or Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the District of Columbia Court of Appeals. President Clinton indicated he had heard Breyer’s name but had not thought about Judge Ginsberg.

I indicated I thought they would be confirmed easily. I knew them both and believed that, while liberal, they were highly honest and capable jurists and their confirmation would not embarrass the President. From my perspective, they were far better than the other likely candidates from a liberal Democrat administration.

In the end, the President did not select Secretary Babbitt. Instead, he nominated Judge Ginsburg and Judge Breyer a year later, when Harry Blackmun retired from the Court. Both were confirmed with relative ease.
 
A recommedation is far from choosing a justice. Democrats make recommendations as well but it doesn't mean they're followed. Yes, I'm aware that these things are done.

You misread my intent.

Also if you look at Ginsberg's testimony before the Senate Judiciary she was as vague, opaque and used the phrase "no sneak previews" several times. It's irresponsible for a would be justice to answer would be decisions theorhetically without details, real world evidence, previous court rulings etc. You can't offer legal opinion on cases that may or may not even exist.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']A recommedation is far from choosing a justice. Democrats make recommendations as well but it doesn't mean they're followed. Yes, I'm aware that these things are done.

You misread my intent.

Also if you look at Ginsberg's testimony before the Senate Judiciary she was as vague, opaque and used the phrase "no sneak previews" several times. It's irresponsible for a would be justice to answer would be decisions theorhetically without details, real world evidence, previous court rulings etc. You can't offer legal opinion on cases that may or may not even exist.[/QUOTE]

You missed the point entirely. Hatch offered up a name that would be satisfactory to repubs. Clinton actually crossed the aisle to find out what repubs thought. He took Hatch's advice and nominated Ginsburgh. Bush takes the stance of "It's my way or the highway".
 
Not satisfactory, one that would pass nomination. All of the judges that come before the judicary have been approved for their judgeships prior to the USSC. Roberts was approved twice previous before his nomination to the USSC.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Not satisfactory, one that would pass nomination. All of the judges that come before the judicary have been approved for their judgeships prior to the USSC. Roberts was approved twice previous before his nomination to the USSC.[/QUOTE]


Doesn't change the fact that he has only been a judge for 2 years.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']A recommedation is far from choosing a justice. Democrats make recommendations as well but it doesn't mean they're followed. Yes, I'm aware that these things are done.

You misread my intent.
[/QUOTE]

Hilarious. I suggest you re-read your own post.

You said:

"Senators don't recommend justices to Presidents."

Hilarious. I didn't mis-read your intent. You used the word "recommend," and now you're partaking in blatant dishonesty to make yourself look less ignorant. Like that's going to help.

So PAD, can you answer me one question? Did you know Hatch recommended Ginsberg prior to my post? Before you answer, keep in mind we can all see your reply to ZarathosNY from earlier in the thread, which indicates quite clearly that you were completely and utterly clueless.

I stand by my earlier conclusion. You are far too ignorant to be discussing this topic. Please let this discussion continue among intelligent people, where it belongs, and go away.

Thanks,

DM
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']So what?[/QUOTE]


How about appointing someone with experience to the job you need, a concept that seems foriegn to Bush, since he shown such good judgement before with his nominations for FEMA and Dept Of Homeland Security.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']

You really need to learn that winning and losing elections have consequences.

.[/QUOTE]

blah blah blah..

It is not just about winning elections. It is winning election AND nominating qualified people (see Michael Brown or the wholly unqualified Clarence Thomas). I do think Roberts is a good candidate and very bright. But I think he is being too cutesy with the "letting the constitution be the guide" act. Obviously, personal interpretation plays a being part and Roberts is pretending that doesn't exist. It does.

I would love to ask him...If his personal opinion won't influence his rulings, what is the harm of sharing it. (outside of cases he is likely to see)

His answer would determine my vote.
 
This is all pretty simple.

Ginsberg was pretty vague in her answers during her confirmation hearings. But she spent 13 YEARS on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. In other words, she had a significant record that could be reviewed. And it was a solidly moderate record.

Roberts, on the other hand, has spent two measley years on the federal bench. In comparison, there's very little to review. That's why he needed to answer his questions, and Ginsberg got more of a free pass. And as we established, Ginsberg was nominated after input by both parties, something that didn't happen with Roberts.

In other words, the situation between the Roberts and Ginsberg is vastly different. So this "Ginsberg didn't answer questions either" argument is ridiculously lame. Different circumstances, different expectations.

Yes, Roberts is going to be confirmed no matter what. But the Dems have nothing to lose by voting against him, especially since the Republicans' approval numbers are in the deepest abyss. At this point, Bush's presidency is such a smoldering mound of wreckage that opposing anything he does is a positive in the eyes of the American people. The MSM hasn't figured this out, but it's true. Survey USA shows that Bush's poll numbers have actually plummetted further after his lame Thursday night speech. Politically, it's over. He's done. You can throw Bush's presidency in a hefty sack and bury it in a landfill.

IMO, it's important the Dems are on record as not supporting this conservative dork. If the Dems vote for him and he ends up doing something stupid, like overturning Roe, the Repubs can say the Dems were complicit because they voted for Roberts too.

Now, I strongly doubt Roberts would do something like that. The Republicans are too smart to ever overturn Roe. If they did, the country goes 60-40 Democratic, which is what the abortion issue polls at nationwide. So they'll continue to give vacuous lip service to the religious loons out there about overturning Roe, but they'll never let it happen.
 
[quote name='D. Monic']Hilarious. I suggest you re-read your own post.

You said:

"Senators don't recommend justices to Presidents."

Hilarious. I didn't mis-read your intent. You used the word "recommend," and now you're partaking in blatant dishonesty to make yourself look less ignorant. Like that's going to help.

So PAD, can you answer me one question? Did you know Hatch recommended Ginsberg prior to my post? Before you answer, keep in mind we can all see your reply to ZarathosNY from earlier in the thread, which indicates quite clearly that you were completely and utterly clueless.

I stand by my earlier conclusion. You are far too ignorant to be discussing this topic. Please let this discussion continue among intelligent people, where it belongs, and go away.

Thanks,

DM[/QUOTE]

No, I didn't.

Your words wound me greatly. Hand me a Kleenex, I'm tearing up from your terrible insult.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']No, I didn't.

Your words wound me greatly. Hand me a Kleenex, I'm tearing up from your terrible insult.[/QUOTE]

Uh oh. More dishonesty. Can conservatives ever tell the truth?

I didn't insult you, like you claim. I just pointed out your incredible ignorance, and provided evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt. You even admitted your ignorance, which makes these all facts, not insults.

At no point did I say you were a rock-stupid, conservative retard that masterbates to pictures of Laura Bush.

And if I did, I apologize.

-DM
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I mean, seriously, you think you're clever or something?[/QUOTE]

What can I say, you bring out the best in me, my thoroughly discredited friend.
 
[quote name='"PAD taken out of context as a non-funny joke"']Eh, one John, two John's. Red fish, blue fish.[/quote]

John Travolta for the Supreme Court?
 
PAD shut the fuck up.. you lost. D. M bitch slapped you around this thread and like always you provided the ammo.

Take it like a man.
 
[quote name='usickenme']PAD shut the fuck up.. you lost. D. M bitch slapped you around this thread and like always you provided the ammo.

Take it like a man.[/QUOTE]

STFU. The only thing that was in question here was if I knew Orrin Hatch recommended Ginsberg to Clinton, I did not. I admitted it.

I can take not knowing facts like a man.

The only thing you take like a man are six inches in your backside while biting a pillow.
 
That is actually "taking it like a homosexual who enjoys anal sex" and not really what I had in mind. A simple admission of ignorance would do it (a real one- not a bogus claim)

This isn't cheapassflamer, ya know.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Oh BTW, you spelled "masturbate" wrong.[/QUOTE]

Finally we find something that PAD is truly an expert on! :lol:
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']How about appointing someone with experience to the job you need, a concept that seems foriegn to Bush, since he shown such good judgement before with his nominations for FEMA and Dept Of Homeland Security.[/QUOTE]

I suggest you actually do a little research on Roberts' experience before making such comments. He's argued a ton of cases before the Supreme Court.

Additionally, justices are often nominated who have ZERO judging experience just on the basis of them being excellent lawyers, yes, even chief justices. I suggest you also review the history of the Supreme Court in regards to this matter.

Although off-topic, I do agree with you on the FEMA thing, though. I think every sane person pretty much does.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I suggest you actually do a little research on Roberts' experience before making such comments. He's argued a ton of cases before the Supreme Court.

Additionally, justices are often nominated who have ZERO judging experience just on the basis of them being excellent lawyers, yes, even chief justices. I suggest you also review the history of the Supreme Court in regards to this matter.

Although off-topic, I do agree with you on the FEMA thing, though. I think every sane person pretty much does.[/QUOTE]


Being a lawyer and being a judge are two different things. I wouldn't want someone on the Surpreme Court with no experience as a judge. He has TWO years experience as a judge. Two years in my mind is not enough experience to put you on the highest court in the land. Remember the topic was would you confirm. I wouldn't because I think that you SHOULD have judical experience to be on the Supreme Court, regardless of what has been done in the past.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I suggest you actually do a little research on Roberts' experience before making such comments. He's argued a ton of cases before the Supreme Court.

Additionally, justices are often nominated who have ZERO judging experience just on the basis of them being excellent lawyers, yes, even chief justices. I suggest you also review the history of the Supreme Court in regards to this matter.

Although off-topic, I do agree with you on the FEMA thing, though. I think every sane person pretty much does.[/QUOTE]

That's the primary problem. Bush appointees have been partisan (well, no shit they have been; them's the breaks in a democracy). However, so many of them have been astonishingly extreme in their views that it was clear that they would greatly alter the very nature of what people in that particular role traditionally do. Bernard Kerik, John Bolton, Janice Rogers Brown, "those other unapproved judicial nominees whose names I can't recall" (;)), Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft, et al. In short, being sickened and frightened by a Bush nominee had, for most of us, become a Pavlovian response.

That, admittedly, got in the way of seriously considering Roberts. He is qualified intellectually, that much is certain. His avoidance of questions is peculiar, but I can't say for certain if he answered a certain number of questions more or less than Ginsburg with a avoidant sleight-of-hand answer. Frankly, I don't care, because it seems evident that it's pretty standard for judicial nominees to shrug their shoulders at certain questions.

As I mentioned in the other thread (it's the one sgs89 linked to above, while seeming to applaud his own intellect just one more time), congress is acting like congress, and Roberts is acting like a judicial nominee being questioned. There's nothing out of the ordinary here. However, one major problem, one that seems to be implied under every argument against his nomination made by Democrats and left-wingers, is that we seem to fully expect him to show his true colors after being confirmed.

I don't think many of us expect it to be subtle, either. We seem to want it to be grandiose, where Roberts will peel back his "handsome man" mask like the lizard people from the fantastic sci-fi show "V," and reveal a disgusting creature lying beneath his good-looking-smooth-talking alter ego. Roberts will then consume and digest the remaining 7 justices (though I imagine he'd have a hard time passing Scalia), and will reign the Supreme Court on his own, ruling with an iron fist and substituting the consitution with a Christian Bible written in the language of his alien race.

Ok, so it won't be *that* dramatic. However, the running implied conspiracy theory is that Roberts will turn out to be a staunch constitutional literalist (even if his record seems to imply he's a "tweener"), overturning abortion (most crucially), increase racial inequality through his opposition to affirmative action laws (well, we're pretty much guaranteed of that if it comes up - which it almost certainly will - during his tenure), and doing other things to reinforce the hegemony of the capitalist class (sorry, I've been studying marxists recently).

In short (too late for *that*), in the 80's Reagan nominated O'Connor, he didn't get what he bargained for (he got a moderate when he wanted a conservative). I think that democrats are afraid that the exact opposite will apply here. It is not unsurprising to think that a judge will act differently than we speculate after being confirmed, and Roberts is no different.

The most bothersome thing for me, however, is Robert's insistence upon the salience of precedent cases (stare decisus, or some legal shit like that - I'm not a legal scholar), as well as peoples' rights of privacy. That, in all reality, should have spurned OUTRAGE on the anti-abortion right; such statements basically implied that, while it may be no surprise that Roberts is pro-life, he won't overturn Roe v Wade. This nominee, and the next, are the best (possibly only?) chance to outlaw abortion rights in the United States. How can the anti-abortion right (and, whether a minority of the party or not, unarguably they are VERY vocal) take a chance remaining quiet while their leader, Bush, nominates a man who won't do what they voted Bush in to do? Their silence is, to me, deafening, and more frightening than anything related to Roberts.

It is, (and I'll wrap it up here) all speculation on my part. I have no reason to believe that Roberts will turn into a monster (though I'm preparing myself to not be surprised). I have no concrete evidence of anything except for Roberts' qualifications; he deserves to be (and will be) confirmed. If he proves himself to be a radical, however, then we should all recognize that as a crystal clear indication that our federal government needs to revise their methods of judicial questioning (that is, we should not approach questioning with the false assumption that people can rule unbiased, and that answers should be honestly given, rather than avoided).

Now, to work.
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']Being a lawyer and being a judge are two different things. I wouldn't want someone on the Surpreme Court with no experience as a judge. He has TWO years experience as a judge. Two years in my mind is not enough experience to put you on the highest court in the land. Remember the topic was would you confirm. I wouldn't because I think that you SHOULD have judical experience to be on the Supreme Court, regardless of what has been done in the past.[/QUOTE]

Okay, now I understand what you are saying more clearly. You feel that the way it has been done in the past is the wrong way. I think that's not a bad point at all. I'd be interested to see how much judicial experience judges who went with the majority in Dred Scott or Plessy or Kelo or something had before becoming justices.

myke - interesting points. I still hold out hope that judges can be more or less unbiased, but then again I'm usually in the optimist camp.
 
If we had the ability to vote for our Judges Roberts wouldn't have made it out of the primaries. But if you mean would I vote to confirm him if all the choices were provided by the president then yes I would, we could do far, far worse.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Okay, now I understand what you are saying more clearly. You feel that the way it has been done in the past is the wrong way. I think that's not a bad point at all. I'd be interested to see how much judicial experience judges who went with the majority in Dred Scott or Plessy or Kelo or something had before becoming justices.

myke - interesting points. I still hold out hope that judges can be more or less unbiased, but then again I'm usually in the optimist camp.[/QUOTE]

I hope that judges can be unbiased also. With everything becoming more and more politizied, I think it is more important now that Supreme Court nominees have judical experience. This gives more of a record to examine, and prevents either side from trying to get a "stealth" nominee in. It also gives a better idea of what kind of judge the nominee will be. While Ginsburgh also evaded a lot of questions, she had 13 years as a judge that could be examined. With Roberts, you have 2 years, and a lot of his work as a lawyer is not being released by the White house, which makes me wonder what is it that they are hiding?
 
None of what Roberts did for any White House he worked in needs to be released and it shouldn't be released. We have that obnoxious thing called seperation of powers and executive privledge which liberals hate when it's a conservative but love when it comes to the impeachment process for obstruction of justice.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']None of what Roberts did for any White House he worked in needs to be released and it shouldn't be released. We have that obnoxious thing called seperation of powers and executive privledge which liberals hate when it's a conservative but love when it comes to the impeachment process for obstruction of justice.[/QUOTE]

Little hypocritical I think, with all the talk of conservatives trying to influence and control the courts and its ruling.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']None of what Roberts did for any White House he worked in needs to be released and it shouldn't be released. We have that obnoxious thing called seperation of powers and executive privledge which liberals hate when it's a conservative but love when it comes to the impeachment process for obstruction of justice.[/QUOTE]

He's applying to be head justice. All info should be made available in order to reach the decision if he should be appointed or not. Separation of powers and executive privelage don't apply here.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']He's not applying he was nominated. All government protocol should be applied. You may think it shouldn't apply but it does.[/QUOTE]

Now your argueing what the definition of "is" is. He was nominated but he still needs to be approved, so basically this is a job interview. If you went into a job interview with little experience with the job you are applying for, and refuse to answer questions, you are not going to get that job.
 
Really? How did Ruth Bader Ginsberg get her position then? Would you like an list of how many times she said "No sneak previews." and evaded direct questioning?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Really? How did Ruth Bader Ginsberg get her position then? Would you like an list of how many times she said "No sneak previews." and evaded direct questioning?[/QUOTE]


As was said before, she had a 13 year record as a judge that could be examined, plus her name was suggested to Clinton by Orrin Hatch as someone who would be acceptable to repubs. If Roberts was suggested from the dems as someone who would be acceptable, then answering questions wouldn't be as much an issue.
 
bread's done
Back
Top