XBOX 360 Jasper Chip Discussion

MoltenMan

MoltenMan

CAGiversary!
So many rumors of the 60GB Pro system carrying the Jasper chipset, I'd hate to add one more, but I noticed something on amazon.com that does indicate SOME kind of difference.

Amazon.com lists the 20GB Pro system to weigh in at 16 pounds. The listing for the new 60GB Pro system is listed at 13.8 pounds. Almost a three pound difference between the two.

The 60GB console is only advertised to have a larger storage HDD and Microsoft NEVER discusses their chipsets it seems like.

So I wonder, is the weight difference possibly from a lighter power supply?

I hope someone gets one of these soon.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wish they would make official announcements about this because waiting on Jasper is the only reason I haven't bought a new 360 yet.
 
I wish they would do something about that huge as power brick... who's brilliant idea was it to make a 5lb brick that gets super hot if you leave your 360 on for too long...
 
I imagine since this is a phase out of the 20GB model the Jaspers will be, initially, mixed with Falcons until supply runs out. Then it will be all Jaspers.
 
We'll never know. The best answer I can give is to wait until next year. Or check boxes for that sort of thing.
 
Yeah, they'll just slap a 60GB HDD on existing falcon units until they are out. So a 60GM HDD will never be a guarantee of having the Jasper motherboard. Just like not all elites were Falcons etc.
 
[quote name='Hybrid5006']I wish they would do something about that huge as power brick... who's brilliant idea was it to make a 5lb brick that gets super hot if you leave your 360 on for too long...[/quote]

It's a lighter now. My Elite from Apr 2007 had the 5 lb brick, but my Feb 2008 Pro doesn't seem to have as much metal, thus making it lighter. It's still not super light, maybe it's like 3 lbs now.

My guess is the same as dmaul's. With GS and Amazon listing release dates as tomorrow and late August respectively, I'm thinking they're still Falcons.
 
[quote name='62t']Jasper is design to save cost. It is not design to elimate RODs[/quote]

Well, it supposedly includes a die shrink to the GPU, so that should help to further reduce the RRoD issues.
 
images


Jasper would keep the system nice and cool.
 
It would be nice if all 60s were jasper, then rrod units could be phased out, there would be less guessing when purchasing and less chance if the unit breaks of getting a worse unit in return.
 
With all the RROD's and since I rather spend more on a new system then $100 on a refurb that is eventually going to die anyways, the Jasper while not 100% RROD proof would probably have a less chance of dying. I'm just hoping the Arcade bundles have Jaspers to because honestly I don't need all the HD space.
 
[quote name='vherub']It would be nice if all 60s were jasper, then rrod units could be phased out.[/QUOTE]
You honestly think Jasper won't be as shoddy as the previous editions that were supposedly improved and more stable? First it's the Elite will be fixed, then it's the Falcon will be fixed, now it's the Jasper. Then they give us a mediocre warrantee that has now expired, even though problems persist, and yet there's still no lawsuit. They've added heatsinks, shrunk the die, shrunk other components, added fans I believe, and still the 360 is a piece of crap.

I don't expect Microsoft will magically fix all their problems with the Jasper, they are now officially the worst hardware company in gaming history, so I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt until Jasper units prove themselves by NOT BREAKING.

[quote name='Monsta Mack']The Jasper while not 100% RROD proof would probably have a less chance of dying.[/QUOTE]
As far as I can tell, the chance of a 360 RROD is 100%. Which is consistent with the severe inherent design flaw that causes the RROD. It's not that Microsoft makes a high percentage of Lemons, it's that EVERY 360 is a Lemon by design. It's not a matter of "will your 360 die", it's a matter of "when will your 360 die". Shrinking dies just lessens the impact of heating/cooling/expanding/cracking, which only slows down the process: it doesn't actually fix it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You would think that MS should be able to hire some of the best engineers in the world to fix the problem.
 
To bad the listing doesn't show the power rating... We should be able to tell if it's a Jasper by how much power it consumes. I'm surprised that they aren't going to bundle the 60 gig with any games... don't they normally do that when they introduce a new SKU?
 
Well if it can last me another 3 years with one RROD or none then It's worth it to me. I already poured in a ton of money and being the tool that I am I will pour in more money. I'm assuming by the 6th year (or less) MS will already have another console in the works so it won't matter to me much by then and probably not much to MS either unless they are going to focus more on profit which looked like a reality till they extended every 360's warranty for three years. However, if they can manage to make a profit of even $150 mil a quarter I doubt they would be in a rush to throw out the next xbox, as they need over five billion in profit to even come close to breaking even.

The 360, hardware and reliability wise is a giant piece of shit. On the other hand it has the best games out of all the systems and I'm willing to pay the price for that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='62t']You would think that MS should be able to hire some of the best engineers in the world to fix the problem.[/QUOTE]

its a design flaw with the 360 case
 
[quote name='evyrew']To bad the listing doesn't show the power rating... We should be able to tell if it's a Jasper by how much power it consumes. I'm surprised that they aren't going to bundle the 60 gig with any games... don't they normally do that when they introduce a new SKU?[/QUOTE]They do that for the holidays. I'm sure come November at the latest, there will be a bundle out.
 
[quote name='Ex~']You honestly think Jasper won't be as shoddy as the previous editions that were supposedly improved and more stable? First it's the Elite will be fixed, then it's the Falcon will be fixed, now it's the Jasper.[/QUOTE] You are wrong with each revision the % of hardware failure is dropping by around 50%. [quote name='Ex~']Then they give us a mediocre warrantee that has now expired, even though problems persist, and yet there's still no lawsuit. They've added heatsinks, shrunk the die, shrunk other components, added fans I believe, and still the 360 is a piece of crap.[/QUOTE] The warranty hasn't expired. You get a 3 year warranty from the original date of purchase, so as of today all consoles that don't have a voided warranty are covered.
I don't understand why you are pissed that there isn't a law suit. MS extended the warranty without a lawsuit. If you look at the class action suit vs. Sony with the PS2 all they had to do was fix DRE consoles for free but the day Sony came out with the PS2 slim they no longer fixed any consoles for free. So MS giving a 3 year warranty is better for us customers than what a class action suit would have done on top of that MS pays for shipping both ways.

[quote name='Ex~']I don't expect Microsoft will magically fix all their problems with the Jasper, they are now officially the worst hardware company in gaming history, so I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt until Jasper units prove themselves by NOT BREAKING.
[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing you didn't have a NES that after about a year you had to fidget every cart to get to work or a PSX that overheated, didn't read disks without turning upside down or one that wouldn't play FMV or PS2 fat with DRE or wouldn't read DVD9 games.

I'm not happy with the shitty 360 but making silly claim doesn't make you anything more than a fanboy.
And yes my 360 is on its way back from Texas as I type.
 
Well said Spoo.

I would say the only nice thing about a PS2 "dying" is they are cheaper to replace At the $130 price point.
It's only a matter of time before your PS2 drive gets a DRE, or you may get a unlucky slim and overheat.
With Microsoft your only issue is time, because from three years from the date you buy it your protected from the RROD. Tell me what company is going to provide you three years of repair service and free shipping both ways? Not Nintendo or Sony. Yes they have less failures, but if you happen to be in the minority and have a problem then your fucked.

As I said a long time ago, if your worried about dying you might as well not go outside. People die everyday for various reasons and you can't protect yourself from everyone/everything. Don't let the chance of having a RROD scare you from buying a 360. When the time comes just deal with it for a few weeks, go get laid or play on your PC/other systems and wait for your system to return.
 
Well, I'll throw my two cents in.

As annoying as it is to wait around three weeks to get your 360 back, at the very least, you are covered three years for the RRoD (there are still plenty of other issues to deal with, keep in mind). So, I wouldn't let Microsoft's poor console design stop you from getting a 360. It didn't stop me. Mine went after about 8 months, mind you, but overall, I am still happy I got a 360.

I think it is pretty safe to say that Microsoft has a pretty spotty history of console hardware. The original Xbox had its fair share of issues, probably highlighted by the power cord causing fires, and now, the 360 is a pretty big mess. Other consoles have had their problems, but they are seriously dwarfed by the problems Microsoft has had with their first two efforts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It seems the system has been spotted at a few Target stores here in America. Some places like joystiq.com and kotaku have posted user photos of it too.

So it's out there, and now it's a matter of time before someone tells us what's under the hood. Or at least what's on the label or power brick...
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Other consoles have had their problems, but they are seriously dwarfed by the problems Microsoft has had with their first two efforts.[/QUOTE]

Really? IMO, Sony easily takes that honor
 
[quote name='fart_bubble']Really? IMO, Sony easily takes that honor[/quote]

Kind of difficult to say Sony easily takes that honor. I don't think we can truly say which one is worse, lacking any definitive numbers, but you can certainly make a case for either company.

Sony has sold like 250 million consoles with the PS1 and PS2, so the magnitude of their issues were greatly magnified. The percentage of failed consoles, while probably high, is made to look a lot worse when you consider the number of failed consoles.

Microsoft, on the other hand, hasn't even cracked the 100 million mark with their first two consoles, so the the number of failed consoles doesn't look as bad. The percentage, though, especially for the 360, is pretty high, whatever it may be. It was bad enough to leave them with zero choice but to extend the warranty or the face the consequences.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Ex~']You honestly think Jasper won't be as shoddy as the previous editions that were supposedly improved and more stable? First it's the Elite will be fixed, then it's the Falcon will be fixed, now it's the Jasper. Then they give us a mediocre warrantee that has now expired, even though problems persist, and yet there's still no lawsuit. They've added heatsinks, shrunk the die, shrunk other components, added fans I believe, and still the 360 is a piece of crap.

I don't expect Microsoft will magically fix all their problems with the Jasper, they are now officially the worst hardware company in gaming history, so I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt until Jasper units prove themselves by NOT BREAKING.


As far as I can tell, the chance of a 360 RROD is 100%. Which is consistent with the severe inherent design flaw that causes the RROD. It's not that Microsoft makes a high percentage of Lemons, it's that EVERY 360 is a Lemon by design. It's not a matter of "will your 360 die", it's a matter of "when will your 360 die". Shrinking dies just lessens the impact of heating/cooling/expanding/cracking, which only slows down the process: it doesn't actually fix it.[/quote]

that was a lovely little run off, but are you gonna tell me that the 360 isn't the gaming console to own this gen? hardware might be weak but everything else is stellar. if you hate microsoft so much go buy a PS3 and get you some great onlin.... oh wait thats right. or how about a wii? i bet their press conference just had you scrambling to get that wii music so you too can look like a jackass.

P.S. i own both a 360 and a PS3
 
[quote name='MoltenMan']It seems the system has been spotted at a few Target stores here in America. Some places like joystiq.com and kotaku have posted user photos of it too.

So it's out there, and now it's a matter of time before someone tells us what's under the hood. Or at least what's on the label or power brick...[/QUOTE]

It's also in the Best Buy Sunday ad for the coming week of Aug 3. Hopefully someone will crack that puppy open soon and let us know if Jasper's in there! I'd guess the first version will be a clearout of Falcon's though.
 
[quote name='Hybrid5006']I wish they would do something about that huge as power brick... who's brilliant idea was it to make a 5lb brick that gets super hot if you leave your 360 on for too long...[/quote]

If they were smart, they would have built it inside the unit like the PS3, so we wouldn't have to deal with that big ass thing. But they wanted the unit to be 'smaller'. Little do customers know that the 360 is lighter than the PS3, but comes with a 4lb power brick. Damn MS. :bomb:
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']If they were smart, they would have built it inside the unit like the PS3, so we wouldn't have to deal with that big ass thing. But they wanted the unit to be 'smaller'. Little do customers know that the 360 is lighter than the PS3, but comes with a 4lb power brick. Damn MS. :bomb:[/quote]
Wouldn't that add to the overheating?
 
[quote name='Littlefields']Wouldn't that add to the overheating?[/QUOTE]

Definitely--given that the brick gets pretty warm. But of course PS3s don't seem to overheat so it's obviously possible to design properly.

But putting the same power block in the same 360s they would probably all melt in a day.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Definitely--given that the brick gets pretty warm. But of course PS3s don't seem to overheat so it's obviously possible to design properly.

But putting the same power block in the same 360s they would probably all melt in a day.[/quote]

agreed, in fact there is a very real possibility that they would burst into flame, laugh maniacally and catch your entire house on fire all the while telling you that there is an update for the current problem
 
[quote name='keithp']It's also in the Best Buy Sunday ad for the coming week of Aug 3. Hopefully someone will crack that puppy open soon and let us know if Jasper's in there! I'd guess the first version will be a clearout of Falcon's though.[/quote]

Yea, it is only a matter of time before someone picks one up and figures out if there is a new chipset in the 60gb systems. Just like with the falcons though, it will probably only be certain MFG dates/teams/lots at first until they are out of falcons. So if you waited this long for a chipset that doesn't Red Ring, then I'm sure you can wait a couple weeks longer until this whole Jasper thing is sorted out.

Then again, if the Jasper is full of false promises to stop the RRoD just like the Falcon was then it is all pretty meaningless.
 
It certainly isn't going to stop the RRoD, but a die-shrink to the GPU should greatly reduce the issue. Like others have said, it really seems to boil down to a bad design and nothing can completely fix that, other than a complete redesign of the system, which we know isn't happening. But the Falcons do appear to have brought it down quite a bit, so I have a good feeling Jasper should bring the 360's failure rate to a somewhat more acceptable rate.
 
[quote name='Ex~']You honestly think Jasper won't be as shoddy as the previous editions that were supposedly improved and more stable? First it's the Elite will be fixed, then it's the Falcon will be fixed, now it's the Jasper. Then they give us a mediocre warrantee that has now expired, even though problems persist, and yet there's still no lawsuit. They've added heatsinks, shrunk the die, shrunk other components, added fans I believe, and still the 360 is a piece of crap.

I don't expect Microsoft will magically fix all their problems with the Jasper, they are now officially the worst hardware company in gaming history, so I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt until Jasper units prove themselves by NOT BREAKING.


As far as I can tell, the chance of a 360 RROD is 100%. Which is consistent with the severe inherent design flaw that causes the RROD. It's not that Microsoft makes a high percentage of Lemons, it's that EVERY 360 is a Lemon by design. It's not a matter of "will your 360 die", it's a matter of "when will your 360 die". Shrinking dies just lessens the impact of heating/cooling/expanding/cracking, which only slows down the process: it doesn't actually fix it.[/quote]

Bla, bla, bla, Sony Fanboy, bla, bla, bla.

If you actually know what the issue is for the 360 you'd know if it'd be fixed or not. :roll: The Falcon greatly reduced the chance of a RROD. Also, no one said that the Elite will reduced the RROD either. The warranty is also still intact for every single Xbox 360 owner so anytime you have a problem, they'll fix it. :bouncy: No fans were added? I believe the Jasper will fix the issue even more, prolonging the RROD even further into the 360's life. My guess is about six years if you're unlucky. :p

It's of matter of when it will die for every single console moron. No electronic will live forever. I also believe your beloved PS3 has a 100% die rate, same with the Wii and every other console. I still have my 360 from '05 and it works fine.
 
I find it hilarious when fans of other consoles blow RROD out of proportion, like it is some huge unsolved mystery, in order to bolster their preference for another brand.

The answer is very simple. All 360s made prior to Falcon did not have sufficient cooling for the heat the GPU put out, resulting in problems like GPUs popping off warped mobos & solder cracking over time and the like and hence RROD. The defect rate on pre-Falcon 360s is going to be very high unless you live in a cool climate.

The Falcon chipset fixed this by putting much more beefy cooling on the GPU. It is not rocket science. Two things are problems for GPUs - yield and heat. Neither is an issue with Falcon. There are PC GPUs that get much hotter and require much more power than the 360 GPU, but they are given adequate cooling so there is no issue. MS solved the cooling issue with Falcon; they went from a 90nm GPU with a crappy heatsink to a 80nm GPU with a beefy heatsink + heatpipe.

We have yet to see how reliable Jasper is, but it will likely be just as reliable as Falcon. Of course, that will not eliminate RROD because there will always be defective consoles when you are mass manufacturing electronics in China and Mexico as all the console makers do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is there any news about a release of just the 60 GB hard drive? I would like to upgrade my hard drive but not when they are charging almost as much as a new console. Hell, I would be happy if I could use the other 10 GB of my 20 GB HDD.
 
[quote name='Ruined']
The Falcon chipset fixed this by putting much more beefy cooling on the GPU. It is not rocket science. Two things are problems for GPUs - yield and heat. Neither is an issue with Falcon. There are PC GPUs that get much hotter and require much more power than the 360 GPU, but they are given adequate cooling so there is no issue. MS solved the cooling issue with Falcon; they went from a 90nm GPU with a crappy heatsink to a 80nm GPU with a beefy heatsink + heatpipe.

We have yet to see how reliable Jasper is, but it will likely be just as reliable as Falcon. Of course, that will not eliminate RROD because there will always be defective consoles when you are mass manufacturing electronics in China and Mexico as all the console makers do.[/quote]
The problem is that it's hard to tell if a single console is just defective or all of them are prone to RRODs ( i.e you have no room to say that they've " fixed " the problem, just like I have no room to say that they haven't)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A few people have already had RRODs with the Falcons according to the 360 RROD FAQ and a seperate topic for it, so I'm still waiting on the Jasper for more reliability, not necessarily 100% RROD proof.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']A few people have already had RRODs with the Falcons according to the 360 RROD FAQ and a seperate topic for it, so I'm still waiting on the Jasper for more reliability, not necessarily 100% RROD proof.[/QUOTE]

There will always be a few defects when you mass manufacture electronics. No 360 chipset will be free of RROD.

The Falcon board was specifically crafted to fix the RROD issue as evidenced by its totally redesigned heatsinks and cooling system. Microsoft even designed a second board "Opus" specifically for their repair depot based on the Falcon chipset (not jasper) that fits in non-HDMI cases to replace the old launch mobos when they get a console in for repair. Clearly Microsoft believes Falcon is reliable otherwise they would not have done that, Microsoft's hardware fix for RROD consoles is a Falcon or Opus motherboard depending on your case type. It would be a poor idea when designing something for the repair depot to assume that Jasper will be as reliable or more reliable than Falcon when Jasper has no history behind it.

Being that Falcon has been MUCH more reliable than the original design based on the very few reports of issues, I see no reason to not buy one. Also, there is no guarantee that Jasper will be more reliable, it may be less reliable for all we know. Jasper is designed to reduce cost over Falcon, so they may skimp on the GPU heatsink due to lower heat output of 65nm... I bet it won't have the heat pipe that the Falcons do, just like the heat pipe was removed from the 360's CPU heatsink when it went to 65nm.

In other words, Falcon has pretty much proved itself as reliable as any game console is and Jasper has proved nothing because its not even out yet. If you don't mind waiting another 6 months to see how reliable Jasper is over time before buying a 360, fine, but if you want a 360 this year I think Falcon is a good choice due to its reliable track record. And again, this is not rocket science, it is simple HSF design. Give the chips adequate cooling and the problems all related to heat disappear. Give them poor cooling and they will cook themselves or their surrounding components as happened with 2005/2006/early 2007 XBOX 360s.


Re: 60GB Jasper, as I expected it appears the first ones are Falcons (which again, is great in my book). In the past hard drive changes never corresponded to chipset changes with 360. There probably won't be a lot of Jaspers in the pipe until Novemberish.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I never really thought about it that way Ruined! Your point has basically totally changed my stance on waiting for the jasper mobos. I was waiting for the 60gb xbox but since a recent you tube video suggested it was just a falcon I was really really bummed. (It still had the 175 watt PSU as the Falcon did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibw7o8BOY8E) Like you said though, who says the Jasper will be more reliable then the Falcon?? In my opinion the Jasper was not designed to be more reliable... but rather to cut manufacturing costs. So your statement on how they might skimp out on the heat sinks and the cooling on the jasper model is very possible.

My question for you is, Do you have a falcon xbox 360 and your just trying to make yourself feel better knowing a possibly better and more reliable xbox 360 is coming? That is a dumb question I know, but I felt like asking it anyway. :D Also, in your opinion should I just go out and buy a 60 gb version as soon as one is available or should I wait a week or two?
 
The Jasper IS going to use less power, and it will potentially be quieter as well, depending on the heat sink solutions, dontcha think?
 
True, it will use less power. As for it being quieter, I doubt it. Unless they put a new DVD drive in because that is what generates the most noise.
 
The fan is pretty noisy on my 360 as well. Mine's not a falcon though, just the older one but with the added heat sink.
 
[quote name='Deliverance1991']My question for you is, Do you have a falcon xbox 360 and your just trying to make yourself feel better knowing a possibly better and more reliable xbox 360 is coming? That is a dumb question I know, but I felt like asking it anyway. :D Also, in your opinion should I just go out and buy a 60 gb version as soon as one is available or should I wait a week or two?[/QUOTE]

I've owned both the original 360 (traded in) and the Falcon 360. I had the same decision to make myself around 3 weeks ago, and what I am posting is the result of my thought process; I already had a 360 so I was not pressed into needing another one. My comments are just made based on observations, common sense, and general knowledge of computer components - I concluded there was no point to waiting for something else that may or may not get the job done better when the current product delivers what I wanted (reliable 360 w/ HDMI). Even though the GPU is guaranteed to generate less heat in Jasper, that does not mean Jasper will be more reliable - only that you need a less expensive HSF to get the cooling job done. If you want to know for sure, though, you are going to have to wait a lot longer than a week. First you have to wait probably a couple of months before Jasper is even out, then you have to wait a couple more months for it to be tested; realistically your wait is 6 months to see if Jasper is any more reliable. Even then you might wait all that time, buy one, and have the DVD drive fail or the like. And, the idea that MS designed a whole new motherboard around Falcon for non-HDMI repairs indicates to me that MS has faith in the design; if they didn't, they'd keep status quo until Jasper or whatever they did have faith in was available. GPU heat that was not effectively dealt with was the issue with original 360s (resulting in all sorts of motherboard & GPU problems), and that was addressed with the Falcon design with the much-improved GPU heatsink & heatpipe - isn't much more to it than that.

As someone commented one realistic improvement with Jasper may be that the fan is quieter, however on the other hand the thing that makes the most noise on my Falcon is by far the DVD drive. On XBOX Live Arcade games the fan is not loud. The fan on the Falcon is significantly quieter than the one in launch XBOXes. Jasper may be even quieter yet, but it depends how much that is worth to you if it is worth waiting.

Regarding power, while Jasper will use less power, Falcon only uses a 175watt power supply and the original XBOX used only 203watts. Neither one is much in the PC world where 350wpc is pretty much the base standard for PSUs. The real issue with the original XBOX was heat, which was not effectively removed from the GPU and hence would damage the GPU, motherboard, GPU>mobo solder, or some combination of the 3. Falcon gets most of the heat away from the GPU and all is good.

If you are really concerned about reliability buy the MS extended warranty; their repair center is actually turning out quality these days. Also remember that all the Jasper chipsets in the world can't save other common things that can go wrong with the console such as the DVD drive flaking out :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So maybe, your saying, I should consider trading in my console for a Falcon Pro or Arcade.
Not sure how much that would trade in for, but I've considered it after getting my repaired console back. That way I would only be short $150 or so versus $280.
BTW. I already have the 360 HDMI conversion kit from Mad Catz and it works great, so I'm not overly concerned about HDMI, just relability for the next three years before MS puts out It's next console.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It has been reported that after playing around for a few hours the Jasper board acts up and makes a "paddling" sound.


de49adfbd82cf3544b3e7c89a2550f86.jpg


Just kidding. plz dun kil mi :whistle2:#
 
fwiw, here is what Ben Heck found when testing the temp of a Falcon board. The cpu is much cooler, but the gpu is just as hot as before, using the same, redesigned heatsink (original, non-heatpipe sink may have been even hotter).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top