Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

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[quote name='RiPPn']If Microsoft goes through with these anti consumer plans and Sony follows suit, then you can flip the > around.[/QUOTE]

i don't buy used games nor do i share games with people so the stuff means nothing to me and to be honest 1st party nintendo games are getting stale for me.
 
[quote name='Coper3000']Timbo, I'm a very tolerant person but you have to understand that very few of us are happy with this product - while the others simply 'do not mind' some of the features. The worst part is that you are pretending something is wrong with the consumer and not the product.[/QUOTE]

the main problem is people are judging the dang thing from what they read on the internet. i think they should just wait till they see it come out of a microsoft person mouth and not what they read on internet. the system don't even come out for another six months. All this remindes me of state farm tv ad when the girl says everything on internet is true and a fat fake french guy walks up lol.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']how so? we know ps4 and x1 will have unlimited 3rd party support and looks like wii u will not. wii u is what wii should have been if it was not rushed out by nintendo. what games worth playing have come out on wii u since launch?[/QUOTE]

Nintendo had the exact same "strategic partnership" with EA prior to the Wii U launch and we see where that went. You can't predict the future on what the PS4 and X1's 3rd party support will be. In particular, the Xbox One's third party support so far is only identified as EA Sports and Activision, there is likely more to be announced but it's foolhardy or downright dishonest to say they have "unlimited" 3rd party support.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']i don't buy used games nor do i share games with people so the stuff means nothing to me and to be honest 1st party nintendo games are getting stale for me.[/QUOTE]

As a consumer with choice it should mean everything to you.
 
[quote name='DNukem170']Did Reggie or Miyamoto kill your puppy or something? You seem to have a grudge against Nintendo or something.[/QUOTE]

im mad that when i paid 350 bucks for wii u at launch i was thinking it would have great party support and that does not look like it will happen.
 
[quote name='keithp']As a consumer with choice it should mean everything to you.[/QUOTE]

i guess im just used to it as i have been pc gamer for years. I don't like all of it but it's something i have grown to live with.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']the main problem is people are judging the dang thing from what they read on the internet. i think they should just wait till they see it come out of a microsoft person mouth and not what they read on internet. the system don't even come out for another six months. l.[/QUOTE]

And yet you say horribly biased and unproven statements to defend it when... The system doesn't even come out for six months.

Hypocrite much?
 
One positive thing I can say is that I like the technology of the Kinect 2 from what I've seen.

Granted I don't have a clue if we'll get anything out of it besides some pretty good dance/exercise games but the tech is still pretty nifty.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']
This isn't an ahh I'm mad at EA for an exclusive NFL license or online passes kind of boycott, it is a 100% disinterest in the marginal amount of positives when weighed against the long list of negatives.[/QUOTE]

Well said. Even if the negatives don't directly impact me, like always online(I've never had a problem) but the fact it's there is not a good thing.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']
This says a lot... Microsoft really thinks their shit don't stink and they can do absolutely anything they want with this console and consumers will simply take it; I think their hubris will get the best of them.[/QUOTE]

Sounds eerily similar to the PS3 launch. Cocky. Shit don't stink. You'll want to work two jobs for it.

It is interesting that Sony will likely have something similar in regards to 'anti-used gaming' but are sitting back just letting MS take all the heat.

[quote name='Javery']I think this is just semantics. You need to be connected or else it won't work. I'm OK with that concept now because I have an internet connection and don't really think about it (events like Sandy notwithstanding) but what happens in 10 years when MS shuts down the servers? I can still play NES and SNES games by hooking up my old consoles - I don't think that will be a possibility going forward and it really bothers me.[/QUOTE]

What happens if Live goes down? For a day? Week? Month? You'll have a very expensive brick on your hands when your X1 can't phone home every day.

[quote name='RiPPn']
Physical games are worthless, it's just a way to get the content onto your console in the case you have a poor internet connection, and also makes storefronts happy they have something physical to sell.[/QUOTE]

We all assumed that 100% digital was a generation away. Turns out MS snuck it in under all our noses under the guise of a disc drive.

[quote name='TimboSliceGB']it just puzzles me that not one single microsoft person has given the same answer i feel bad for the people in the pr department of microsoft. I bet xbox customer support phones are going off the hook because of this.[/QUOTE]

Who uses telephones? lol

[quote name='htz']Stop using PC as a comparison to consoles. The reason I am a console gamer is because I prefer physical over digital. Without that difference I would had been a PC gamer long time ago. I like the option to trade, rent, and share my games freely.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly. PC was forced into digital because sales lagged and it was no longer beneficial for stores to carry PC games. Consoles have no issues pushing millions of games every week. There's no reason for this early transition to digital other than to manage how consumers use their product. This transition has nothing to do with "that's where all media is headed" and everything to do with "we don't want you to sell our games."

[quote name='TimboSliceGB']im a lifelong gamer i have got every major system on launch since the early 90's. If people don't think x1 and ps4 will not sell well you are crazy. like i said before unless you are a hardcore gamer you will have no clue what was learned outside of press conf. if the prouction of ps4 and x1 are like last gen these things will be hard to find around xmas.[/QUOTE]

Gamestop raked in $10 billion last year. That's a lot of gamers coming and going from their stores. You don't think anti-used games news will spread like wildfire among their customer base? Hell that's something that could end up being news-worthy closer to launch.
 
I don't know how to post a proper youtube link but I will say I like the tech of the Kinect 2 that I've seen.

Granted we could just get more dance and exercise games out of it but I think it has potential. If only I believed it wouldn't be watching/listening to me constantly I'd probably actually want one.

Edit: here's a neogaf thread with a link to the Kinect video
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']im a lifelong gamer i have got every major system on launch since the early 90's. If people don't think x1 and ps4 will not sell well you are crazy. like i said before unless you are a hardcore gamer you will have no clue what was learned outside of press conf. if the prouction of ps4 and x1 are like last gen these things will be hard to find around xmas.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure both will sell well at launch and the average consumer will have no idea about any of the DRM restrictions in the systems. The question is will they be bothered when they suddenly find out that there games need an internet connection and won't work on their friends systems?

The primary reason that console games are more popular than PC games is because people can just stick any game in the system and it will work, they don't have to deal with DRM restrictions or connectivity problems. They may not know what DRM is (yet), but that's because they haven't had to deal with it.

On a related note, I've bought plenty of used games where the online passes or extra bonus DLC codes were unused. A lot of consumers never bother with any of them. How will they feel when they are forced to deal with that to play the game at all?

One last thing... a previous poster mentioned that there are 40 million Xbox Live users. There are 70 million Xbox 360s sold. That means that 30 million Xbox 360 users have never used the system online, if the Xbox One requires an internet connection (whether constant or not) they've lost 42% of their customer base.
 
[quote name='Corvin']Well said. Even if the negatives don't directly impact me, like always online(I've never had a problem) but the fact it's there is not a good thing.



Sounds eerily similar to the PS3 launch. Cocky. Shit don't stink. You'll want to work two jobs for it.

It is interesting that Sony will likely have something similar in regards to 'anti-used gaming' but are sitting back just letting MS take all the heat.



What happens if Live goes down? For a day? Week? Month? You'll have a very expensive brick on your hands when your X1 can't phone home every day.



We all assumed that 100% digital was a generation away. Turns out MS snuck it in under all our noses under the guise of a disc drive.



Who uses telephones? lol



Exactly. PC was forced into digital because sales lagged and it was no longer beneficial for stores to carry PC games. Consoles have no issues pushing millions of games every week. There's no reason for this early transition to digital other than to manage how consumers use their product. This transition has nothing to do with "that's where all media is headed" and everything to do with "we don't want you to sell our games."



Gamestop raked in $10 billion last year. That's a lot of gamers coming and going from their stores. You don't think anti-used games news will spread like wildfire among their customer base? Hell that's something that could end up being news-worthy closer to launch.[/QUOTE]

if this stuff even stays in the system come launch again it's software base takes two secs to take it out. lets say both ps4 and x1 both have this you think kids will care? let's me honest here the hard core gamers are the people that buys this stuff at launch. AFter the launch it's kids and avg gamers. these two things game issue or not will be number one on avg consumers wish list this holiday season.
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']I'm sure both will sell well at launch and the average consumer will have no idea about any of the DRM restrictions in the systems. The question is will they be bothered when they suddenly find out that there games need an internet connection and won't work on their friends systems?

The primary reason that console games are more popular than PC games is because people can just stick any game in the system and it will work, they don't have to deal with DRM restrictions or connectivity problems. They may not know what DRM is (yet), but that's because they haven't had to deal with it.

On a related note, I've bought plenty of used games where the online passes or extra bonus DLC codes were unused. A lot of consumers never bother with any of them. How will they feel when they are forced to deal with that to play the game at all?

One last thing... a previous poster mentioned that there are 40 million Xbox Live users. There are 70 million Xbox 360s sold. That means that 30 million Xbox 360 users have never used the system online, if the Xbox One requires an internet connection (whether constant or not) they've lost 42% of their customer base.[/QUOTE]

30 million is paid gold members. That does not included silver members
 
[quote name='PenguinMaster']

One last thing... a previous poster mentioned that there are 40 million Xbox Live users. There are 70 million Xbox 360s sold. That means that 30 million Xbox 360 users have never used the system online, if the Xbox One requires an internet connection (whether constant or not) they've lost 42% of their customer base.[/QUOTE]

Huge logic fail here.

1. Multiple xboxes sold per person
2. Just because someone doesn't sign up for Xbox live doesn't mean they don't have a persistent Internet connection.

I've never signed up for pandora on my smart tv. That doesn't mean my smart tv isn't capable of connecting to the Internet.
 
I rarely post here on CAG but I've continued to keep up and lurk on many threads. Timbo, why continue to post on a site when just about every member is constantly trying to refute you? It would drive many insane spending their precious free time doing what you've done. You are the most stubborn individual I've seen on this site in awhile, it's almost masochistic.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']if this stuff even stays in the system come launch again it's software base takes two secs to take it out.[/QUOTE]
You sure are confident that all this DRM is software based. Any source or proof?
 
in the end what i think is very possible to happen is that both ps4 and x1 allow the game companys make the choice of always online/game acivation a must. I'm not saying it's a good thing but if i was working for sony or microsoft i would do it. all this is going on because game companys are seeing how much 2nd hand game buying is going on an they want some of that money in return. i would tell the companys that you have the option to o it but you might not sell many games.
 
[quote name='confoosious']1. Multiple xboxes sold per person[/QUOTE]

^this - Red ring of death has me on my second 360, though I was lucky my launch console lasted until the elite came out and it would only RROD every once in awhile, Gamestop ended up with the unit in trade for the elite. So it may still be out there, but I had some friends who went through 4 different boxes, so yeah I'd say a good 10% of the total 360s sold are sitting in landfills.
 
[quote name='htz']You sure are confident that all this DRM is software based. Any source or proof?[/QUOTE]

Their is no product that you could put in the system to make a thing drm. seeing x1 is pretty much running on windows 8 it's pretty much 100 percent software base. How you think games like diablo 3 and sim city on pc are drm it's software base and can be turned off in quick second. it could not even be in the system it self could end up on the game disc or on live servers.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']in the end what i think is very possible to happen is that both ps4 and x1 allow the game companys make the choice of always online/game acivation a must. I'm not saying it's a good thing but if i was working for sony or microsoft i would do it. all this is going on because game companys are seeing how much 2nd hand game buying is going on an they want some of that money in return. i would tell the companys that you have the option to o it but you might not sell many games.[/QUOTE]

All Sony and Microsoft have to do to get the public to adapt to this DRM scheme is say the new price for new release games is 40$. So we are taking away the second hand market, but with some take there is some give, so in return games are going to be cheaper for you. But that's not how they operate, they want their cake and they want to eat it to, the greedy douche bags!!
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']30 million is paid gold members. That does not included silver members[/QUOTE]

If that's true than I misquoted, but I can't imagine the majority of the remaining people are all silver members.
Even if 42% are silver members that means 42% don't want to pay for Gold and they won't get the vast majority of the features that Xbox One is advertising.

[quote name='confoosious']Huge logic fail here.

1. Multiple xboxes sold per person
2. Just because someone doesn't sign up for Xbox live doesn't mean they don't have a persistent Internet connection.

I've never signed up for pandora on my smart tv. That doesn't mean my smart tv isn't capable of connecting to the Internet.[/QUOTE]

1. Multiple accounts on one Xbox (families) probably more than negates that.
2. Just because someone has a persistent Internet connection doesn't mean they want to hook their console up to it.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']Their is no product that you could put in the system to make a thing drm. seeing x1 is pretty much running on windows 8 it's pretty much 100 percent software base. How you think games like diablo 3 and sim city on pc are drm it's software base and can be turned off in quick second.[/QUOTE]
You can't compare the way security is built into a console with a PC. You really have no idea how the chain of trust works on a closed source system. Some of the security is built into the hardware from the factory and it can't be touched with a firmware update like the lowest level of the bootloader that loads everything when you turn on the system. Even if it was possible, updating such a low level part of the system increases the chance of bricking the system. Couple with the fact that the X1 has 3 OSes working in tandem.

http://wololo.net/talk/viewtopic.php?p=189969
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']Their is no product that you could put in the system to make a thing drm. seeing x1 is pretty much running on windows 8 it's pretty much 100 percent software base. How you think games like diablo 3 and sim city on pc are drm it's software base and can be turned off in quick second. it could not even be in the system it self could end up on the game disc or on live servers.[/QUOTE]

It's pretty obvious the DRM is directly related to being required to be online once every 24 hours or "all you can do is play Blu Ray movies". They want to know if someone else installed the disk and registered it elsewhere and YOU are still trying to play it so they can fucking remove your game. The alternative is, hey, buy the game day one and immediately trade it into GameStop the same day. Even if they only give you 20 bucks for a game on day one, you can still go buy another game for 20 less if you planned on buying a couple at launch. In other words, they're not going to let you keep your game if someone else registers it even though they're getting 2 license fees. No fucking way.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']This article states 6 times more powerful. Also, going from SD to HD required a much larger increase in power. You are going to keep the same 1920×1080 output of the last console yet it is 6 times more powerful and that will make a difference.


http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare[/QUOTE]
That's becuse that article doesn't provide and sources and just claims that the Xbox one has over 2 tflops based on nothing. Rather than calculating the the flops based on the specs which gives you 1.2 tflops.
 
[quote name='Blaster man']What's that?[/QUOTE]
The time when brain cells are lost from a a certain person here. I Won't name names, but...he can easily be slidecage's brother.
 
If Timbo speculates its okay its based on internet articles he read.

If anyone else speculates based on internet articles they read, its some speculative crap that holds no weight.

I really wish CAG would ban/mute "members" who contribute in this manner
 
[quote name='Blaster man']The alternative is, hey, buy the game day one and immediately trade it into GameStop the same day. Even if they only give you 20 bucks for a game on day one, you can still go buy another game for 20 less if you planned on buying a couple at launch. In other words, they're not going to let you keep your game if someone else registers it even though they're getting 2 license fees. No fucking way.[/QUOTE]

That brings up an interesting scenario. Say you trade in a game, GS isn't activating it, so it could sit in a drawer for months without someone buying and registering it. Other people will be trading in that game as well so your disc could theoretically keep getting shuffled to the bottom of the stack, so you could get lucky enough to keep the game on your hard drive for an extended period. Another upside? No more free rentals for GS employees.

Of course launch window games won't sit around, but once there is a decent library it seems like a plausible scenario.
 
[quote name='confoosious']Then wiiu what...?[/QUOTE]

My favorite response! I've read this entire thread and "then" instead of "than" annoyed me so much.
 
I only see one genre that could benefit from what one thing Kinect does, and that's survival horror. The idea that is can read your pulse/body temperature and potentially change what's coming at you in fiendish ways sounds interesting.

But then I read the rest of the stuff, I shake my head and I say 'man, there goes that idea.'
 
The real problem I have (because we are already seeing it) is that they will force Kinect into goddamn everything even if it makes no sense for it. They will just shove it down everyone's throats demanding that we love it
 
[quote name='Erad30']The real problem I have (because we are already seeing it) is that they will force Kinect into goddamn everything even if it makes no sense for it. They will just shove it down everyone's throats demanding that we love it[/QUOTE]

Six-axis anyone?
 
[quote name='Erad30']And we know how that went...[/QUOTE]

Playing through Folklore right now...I couldn't be more glad for them to be gone (aside from Sly 4, WTF):headache:
 
[quote name='MrNinjaSquirrel']Playing through Folklore right now...I couldn't be more glad for them to be gone (aside from Sly 4, WTF):headache:[/QUOTE]

lol c'mon you didn't enjoy shaking the control like crazy to get through that annoying Carmelita dance sequence? With that said, really enjoyed that game!
 
Here is a podcast done by Eurogamer about the X1 reveal. It's a really good listen. They touch on things like how the X1 appears to be very United States centric. The very different philosophies of Sony and Microsoft, Sony being for the Gamer and Microsoft being Hollywood. Which one they prefer, etc.
 
Man with the news coming out of this the Xbox is sounding worse and worse to me.. It all comes down to games but I might make the switch to playstation.
 
 
[quote name='Javery']You need to be connected or else it won't work. I'm OK with that concept now because I have an internet connection and don't really think about it (events like Sandy notwithstanding) but what happens in 10 years when MS shuts down the servers? I can still play NES and SNES games by hooking up my old consoles - I don't think that will be a possibility going forward and it really bothers me.[/QUOTE]
There's many reasons why I'm boycotting the system/industry, but having to connect to the system once every 24 hours is not okay. I have internet, so it's not a problem for me 'now,' but thinking about the future (with servers being shut down), it actually is a problem and I won't support this future.

Also, with no backwards compatibility with XBLA games, who's to say this won't happen again with the next system? Again, I'm not supporting this industry/system any longer if this is the future.

:)
 
[quote name='Javery']Same here. I was pretty sure that a new Xbox was in my future since I've been a Gold member for a while and I have achievements blah blah blah but no used games and the required internet connection are deal breakers for me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I keep thinking about when we had a hurricane a few years ago and my internet was down for 2 weeks. With no internet I'm not expecting to play online games, but the very idea that I cannot play a single player offline game because my Xbox has not checked in with Microsoft lately is complete and total crap.

I have a feeling this is more about piracy prevention since piracy has been so rampant on the 360, and in truth the strength of the Xbox brand will make sure that a lot of people still buy this system. I won't be one of them though.
 
You know what bothers me about the new kinect? The new kinect is - always on, always watching, always listening, always creeping. I used to be worried about the 360's kinect but the truth is the 360 doesn't have a power state that allows the kinect to function when the console is off. That's the reason you can't verbally say "Xbox On", the Kinect is not functioning. The Xbox One will have a power state where the Kinect is watching and listening ALL THE TIME so you can turn on your console verbally by saying "Xbox On". It's a bit creepy especially when you think about the fact that even if you cover the camera, it's still listening to your private conversation in your house and god knows who will have or eventually have access to look or just listen into your house. I think it's fair to say that all our conversations on the Internet, email, and telephone are recorded and stored somewhere forever.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston
http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/03/22/nsa-spy-hub

Now there could be the potential of listening to every single PRIVATE conversation in your living room? It's a bit too 1984 for me. In fact it's exactly like 1984.
 
[quote name='Erad30']http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-what-we-do-and-dont-know

This clears up some stuff but mandatory installs, having to be online possibly several times a day (and what happens if I don't?) and forced Kinect bs means it'll be awhile before I pick one up.[/QUOTE]

:lol: I love it. In the very first sentence they mention all the contradicting info flowing from different MS execs but then want us to believe their info is the real deal.
 
"Exactly" like 1984? My god the hyperbole. Did you read 1984 or just the wiki entry?

Will Microsoft come to your house and black bag you (yes I'm mixing references) if you cover up your kinect camera? Or unplug your system?
 
[quote name='Blaster man']Now there could be the potential of listening to every single PRIVATE conversation in your living room? It's a bit too 1984 for me. In fact it's exactly like 1984.[/QUOTE]
I hear we'll all have to watch a two-minute video every morning showing the evils of Sony, the hacker community and used games, and the Kinect will monitor if we are showing sufficient hatred.
 
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