You Too Can Brag About Murdering the Unborn

[quote name='MrBadExample']I truly don't expect abortion to be legal for more than another ten, maybe twenty years.[/quote]

I agree, but because I firmly believe that science will have a way to incubate a fetus to maturity outside of it's mother's body by then. Everyone should be happy with that, I think.
 
[quote name='jmcc']It's not hard to find at all. It's under "wearables with a message."[/quote]

I see it now. I guess I was really, really hoping it was an error. That was pretty easy to find, I'm not sure how I missed it.
 
[quote name='fireball343']i'm angainst abortion, if your screwing around with a girl and viec versa. your own fault, there's birth control people. and condoms,

yeah i know they don't work everytime.

only reason to have an abortion is if your raped, i don't care if you can't finnacially take care of your kid. or any other excuse. you made an adult choice to have sex, now you get the consequences.

you can't go rob a place and then get caught and say hey, hold it, i'm aborting this robbery. okay tony, let's go. while hit the one on 5th and main instead.[/quote]

I almost didn't respond to this, because I'm somehow sure you're under 15, 16 tops. But.. the robbery analogy is utter crap, it has nothing to do with abortion.

Now, you believe abortion is wrong.. from your post it seems that its because you believe its avoiding the consequences. Well in that case we shouldn't be working on AIDs research and you shouldn't be able to take herpes medication. In fact if you get in an automobile accident that's your fault.. well you should have to face the consequences, so no hospital for you.
However, if you believe abortion is wrong because its murdering the fetus. How can you explain that the murder is ok if the mother is raped? There's no possible explanation to justify that. And think about that in the real world. If the laws stated abortion was only legal in cases of rape and immediate medical necessity to the mother.. you'd end up with two things: A. women getting unsafe, unclean abortions in back alleys. B. rape accusations would go through the roof (girl and guy have sex, girl gets pregnant, gets scared, acuses boyfriend of rape, gets abortion, may or may not drop case).

The entire question of whether or not abortion should be legal has to boil down to "is the fetus alive, and does it have rights?". If it doesn't, then the government has no right to regulate the woman's right to abort her pregnancy. If it is, then the government has every right to illegalize it (as the have the right to outlaw murder, robbery, incest, etc).

Personally, I consider the fetus to be just that, a fetus, not a human being. But mucking up the issue with "face your consequences" and "its all about freedom" and "its terribly painful to the fetus", etc, etc.. doesn't help the discussion.
 
If someone started selling "I Blew Up an Abortion Clinic" shirts online, I think some of you guys might start to see the other side of this argument. Do what you gotta do, but let's not be flippant about the end of an innocent life.
 
[quote name='Cornfedwb'][quote name='fireball343']i'm angainst abortion, if your screwing around with a girl and viec versa. your own fault, there's birth control people. and condoms,

yeah i know they don't work everytime.

only reason to have an abortion is if your raped, i don't care if you can't finnacially take care of your kid. or any other excuse. you made an adult choice to have sex, now you get the consequences.

you can't go rob a place and then get caught and say hey, hold it, i'm aborting this robbery. okay tony, let's go. while hit the one on 5th and main instead.[/quote]

I almost didn't respond to this, because I'm somehow sure you're under 15, 16 tops. But.. the robbery analogy is utter crap, it has nothing to do with abortion.

Now, you believe abortion is wrong.. from your post it seems that its because you believe its avoiding the consequences. Well in that case we shouldn't be working on AIDs research and you shouldn't be able to take herpes medication. In fact if you get in an automobile accident that's your fault.. well you should have to face the consequences, so no hospital for you.
However, if you believe abortion is wrong because its murdering the fetus. How can you explain that the murder is ok if the mother is raped? There's no possible explanation to justify that. And think about that in the real world. If the laws stated abortion was only legal in cases of rape and immediate medical necessity to the mother.. you'd end up with two things: A. women getting unsafe, unclean abortions in back alleys. B. rape accusations would go through the roof (girl and guy have sex, girl gets pregnant, gets scared, acuses boyfriend of rape, gets abortion, may or may not drop case).

The entire question of whether or not abortion should be legal has to boil down to "is the fetus alive, and does it have rights?". If it doesn't, then the government has no right to regulate the woman's right to abort her pregnancy. If it is, then the government has every right to illegalize it (as the have the right to outlaw murder, robbery, incest, etc).

Personally, I consider the fetus to be just that, a fetus, not a human being. But mucking up the issue with "face your consequences" and "its all about freedom" and "its terribly painful to the fetus", etc, etc.. doesn't help the discussion.[/quote]

the okay if it's a rape is that your going to have a kid that you didn't concive with someone you wanted to concive a child with.

the problem is that by making it legal to abort, is for teenagers, it makes it so, the condom failed, my parents will find out, i'll go get an abortion.
if you manged to have sex i think you can go to doctors appointment too, without your parents knowing.

the rape if one partner is underage, that law is messed up. 1. because someone who we heard about through a chain of friends said they knew someone who's kid was having sex with his girlfriend in his girlfriends house. the second he turned 18 and was older than the girl, they had him arrested for rape.

i'm a Christian, i stand behind my beliefs %100.
 
[quote name='fireball343']the okay if it's a rape is that your going to have a kid that you didn't concive with someone you wanted to concive a child with.[/quote]

But how does that make it ok to "murder the unborn child"?

[quote name='fireball343']the problem is that by making it legal to abort, is for teenagers, it makes it so, the condom failed, my parents will find out, i'll go get an abortion.
if you manged to have sex i think you can go to doctors appointment too, without your parents knowing. [/quote]

If you're under 18, you need either your parent's permission or a court order to get an abortion. And again, you're mucking up the issue with unimportant side comments, if the fetus does not have rights, then it doesn't matter why people get an abortion.

[quote name='fireball343']the rape if one partner is underage, that law is messed up. 1. because someone who we heard about through a chain of friends said they knew someone who's kid was having sex with his girlfriend in his girlfriends house. the second he turned 18 and was older than the girl, they had him arrested for rape.[/quote]

I find that story completely unbelievable. First off, almost every state has a grace period (to the affect of girl over 16, guy can be up to 20 or something like that) and every state has a law to the affect of "if the couple was engaging in legal sexual activity before one individual was eighteen years of age, they may continue to engage in said sexual activity".

[quote name='fireball343']i'm a Christian, i stand behind my beliefs %100.[/quote]

As am I, and as do I.. what does that matter?

You didn't answer a single one of my points, you just re-iterated your original points and threw in a comment about statuatory rape for some reason.
 
[quote name='fireball343']the okay if it's a rape is that your going to have a kid that you didn't concive with someone you wanted to concive a child with.

i'm a Christian, i stand behind my beliefs %100.[/quote]

Is it the kid's fault that he/she was conceived through rape? Isn't it still MURDER to get an abortion? Under the Neo-con rule, you're either for or against abortion. NO gray areas. Another example of them dividing americans.

The bible doesn't specifically say anything about abortion either. People twist passages to justify their beliefs on this issue, but there is no mentioning of abortion specifically.
 
if anyone read my previous post, you can probably tell i'm against Abortion and i think it should be illegal. The whole process of aborting a fetus is wrong.

Abortion should be made illegal, and instead of abortion, people should look into adoption. Every child should be given a chance to have a life. IMO abortion is pretty selfish. "meh... i dont want a baby.. kill it..".

If a chick gets raped and it results in a pregnancy, she should have the baby and either keep it or put it up for adoption.


if the fetus isnt alive, why isnt it just taken out of the mother? why to they have to suck the brain matter out and break off the arms and legs? seems crazy to me.
 
[quote name='Cracka']if anyone read my previous post, you can probably tell i'm against Abortion and i think it should be illegal. The whole process of aborting a fetus is wrong.

Abortion should be made illegal, and instead of abortion, people should look into adoption. Every child should be given a chance to have a life. IMO abortion is pretty selfish. "meh... i dont want a baby.. kill it..".

If a chick gets raped and it results in a pregnancy, she should have the baby and either keep it or put it up for adoption.


if the fetus isnt alive, why isnt it just taken out of the mother? why to they have to suck the brain matter out and break off the arms and legs? seems crazy to me.[/quote]

Ok, I must have missed it earlier, though: how are you qualified to decide what half the population does with their bodies?
 
[quote name='jmcc']Ok, I must have missed it earlier, though: how are you qualified to decide what half the population does with their bodies?[/quote]

Again, if we decide the fetus is a human being, with all the rights of a human being, then we (read, the legislature) do have the right to decide what the pregnant women do with their bodies. There's alot of conversation about the good and bad of abortion.. but none of it matters other than Is or Is not the fetus a living, human being?
 
If I eevr saw someone wearing that tee, I would go off on them, I think I'd turn pycho or something.

Regardless of what anyone says abortion is murder. To give anyone the choice of abortion is to give someone the choice of murding another human being. I'm all about free speech and the rights of choice, but there should be a line drawn. Otherwise we'll be a country that lives in choas.
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']If I eevr saw someone wearing that tee, I would go off on them, I think I'd turn pycho or something.

Regardless of what anyone says abortion is murder. To give anyone the choice of abortion is to give someone the choice of murding another human being. I'm all about free speech and the rights of choice, but there should be a line drawn. Otherwise we'll be a country that lives in choas.[/quote]

You believe in free speech and the right to choose, yet you'd go off on someone wearing the t-shirt? Way to self-contradict!
 
[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='-Never4ever-']If I eevr saw someone wearing that tee, I would go off on them, I think I'd turn pycho or something.

Regardless of what anyone says abortion is murder. To give anyone the choice of abortion is to give someone the choice of murding another human being. I'm all about free speech and the rights of choice, but there should be a line drawn. Otherwise we'll be a country that lives in choas.[/quote]

You believe in free speech and the right to choose, yet you'd go off on someone wearing the t-shirt? Way to self-contradict![/quote]

hmm she has the freedom to where that shirt and I have the freedom to tell her off. Something sound amiss? no? good.
 
Dude, freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequence.

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='-Never4ever-']If I eevr saw someone wearing that tee, I would go off on them, I think I'd turn pycho or something.

Regardless of what anyone says abortion is murder. To give anyone the choice of abortion is to give someone the choice of murding another human being. I'm all about free speech and the rights of choice, but there should be a line drawn. Otherwise we'll be a country that lives in choas.[/quote]

You believe in free speech and the right to choose, yet you'd go off on someone wearing the t-shirt? Way to self-contradict![/quote]
 
[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='-Never4ever-']If I eevr saw someone wearing that tee, I would go off on them, I think I'd turn pycho or something.

Regardless of what anyone says abortion is murder. To give anyone the choice of abortion is to give someone the choice of murding another human being. I'm all about free speech and the rights of choice, but there should be a line drawn. Otherwise we'll be a country that lives in choas.[/quote]

You believe in free speech and the right to choose, yet you'd go off on someone wearing the t-shirt? Way to self-contradict![/quote]

I don't see as a contradiction in the least. Your side tends to believe that free speech allows someone to say anything they want, consequence free. It simply doesn't work that way. You are absolutely free to say whatever you like, likewise, someone else absolutely free to go off on you if they don't like what you have to say.
 
Why is it we seemed to have moderately intelligent discussion about this earlier in the day. Now we have "abortion is bad" "i hate abortion" "I'm going to shiv anyone who wears that shirt". Is it the age group that gets on later in the day?
 
[quote name='agapens'][quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='-Never4ever-']If I eevr saw someone wearing that tee, I would go off on them, I think I'd turn pycho or something.

Regardless of what anyone says abortion is murder. To give anyone the choice of abortion is to give someone the choice of murding another human being. I'm all about free speech and the rights of choice, but there should be a line drawn. Otherwise we'll be a country that lives in choas.[/quote]

You believe in free speech and the right to choose, yet you'd go off on someone wearing the t-shirt? Way to self-contradict![/quote]

I don't see as a contradiction in the least. Your side tends to believe that free speech allows someone to say anything they want, consequence free. It simply doesn't work that way. You are absolutely free to say whatever you like, likewise, someone else absolutely free to go off on you if they don't like what you have to say.[/quote]

My point (for those who missed it) is he said he was "all about" "the rights of choice" (i.e. pro-choice) yet would go psycho on someone wearing the shirt.
 
I'm not going to classify myself as anything before I say something, but a lot of people here have very strong opinions about abortion, and here's where I at least stand. I believe that abortion was made legal only because of the sadly rare cases that a young girl or teen gets raped in the back of an alleyway and is scarred for the rest of her life. While I do realize Cracka that this may be true for most cases, some woman (And I don't agree with this) are too self-centered and concerned about themselves to care about another child, so they wouldn't want to have to go through the excruciating pain of having a baby and then putting it up for adoption and having it tear at their insides. The only time that I actually agree with it, though, is when 12 or 13 or similarly young girls are dragged into the woods/back alley/ wherever they might be and are raped on the scene and left there, probably obviously injured, and then later find out they are pregnant. How are they able to have the baby without becoming even more injured? 12 year olds could even die from birthing their fatherless child, and who knows if the baby would even deliver perfectly fine. It's not really right to call them sluts for having abortions, but I think they're wrong in doing so if they're old enough.
So exclaiming proudly that you had an abortion is pretty sick and wrong IMO, but for extreme cases I'm for it.
 
One of the main reasons that abortion was legalized was to regulate its practice. Abortions happened before Roe V Wade, but unscrupulous individuals performed them with little or no medical training in circumstances that can hardly be defined as sanitary. Thus, many women lost their lives undergoing the procedure.

While some (including some that frequent this forum) would think that this is a good thing, the Supreme Court thought otherwise.

For a brief explanation of Roe -v- Wade check out this link: http://users.telerama.com/~jdehullu/abortion/abroe.htm
 
[quote name='x0thedeadzone0x']I'm not going to classify myself as anything before I say something, but a lot of people here have very strong opinions about abortion, and here's where I at least stand. I believe that abortion was made legal only because of the sadly rare cases that a young girl or teen gets raped in the back of an alleyway and is scarred for the rest of her life. While I do realize Cracka that this may be true for most cases, some woman (And I don't agree with this) are too self-centered and concerned about themselves to care about another child, so they wouldn't want to have to go through the excruciating pain of having a baby and then putting it up for adoption and having it tear at their insides. The only time that I actually agree with it, though, is when 12 or 13 or similarly young girls are dragged into the woods/back alley/ wherever they might be and are raped on the scene and left there, probably obviously injured, and then later find out they are pregnant. How are they able to have the baby without becoming even more injured? 12 year olds could even die from birthing their fatherless child, and who knows if the baby would even deliver perfectly fine. It's not really right to call them sluts for having abortions, but I think they're wrong in doing so if they're old enough.
So exclaiming proudly that you had an abortion is pretty sick and wrong IMO, but for extreme cases I'm for it.[/quote]

:applause: excellent point TDZ, the only one so far that actually makes sense. in those rarest of rare cases, I do believe abortion would be okay, however there's no clear way to determine which victims were raped and those who are faking it. I really am stumped when it comes down to this.

I'm fine with choices and what not as long as it doesn't hurt (or in this case, kill) other human beings. You mistaken my original post.
 
As a quick side note.. I keep reading the subject of this thread as.. You Too Can Brag About Murdering the Unicorn. Which makes me think of that horrible Tom Cruise movie, Legend. Which makes me somehow terribly uncomfortable.

Just thought I'd throw that out.
 
[quote name='Tromack']-No abortions
-boo
-Abortions for all
-boo
-Abortions for some; miniature American flags for the rest
-yay[/quote]

word
 
time for me to spend 15 dollars for a shirt saying sum1 tore inside of me and ripped out a harmless fetus.... *whole post total sarcasm, im a guy*
 
[quote name='Nirvanaguy777'][quote name='Tromack']-No abortions
-boo
-Abortions for all
-boo
-Abortions for some; miniature American flags for the rest
-yay[/quote]

word[/quote]

word indeed!
"Maybe Bob Dole just wants to talk about Bob Dole, Bob Dole, Bob Dole!"

Oh and abortions should only be used in EXTREME cases such as the mother might die and stuff like that.
 
I'm 100% pro-life. I believe that regardless of circumstances, murder is never an acceptable alternative.

I know people that have had abortions, some very well. I don't know any that would like to advertise it. It was a traumatic experience or so I've been told. I doubt anyone who has actually had an abortion will wear one, save for extreme feminists.

I find the idea alone kind of disgusting.
 
[quote name='Tromack']-No abortions
-boo
-Abortions for all
-boo
-Abortions for some; miniature American flags for the rest
-yay[/quote]

Sums it all up pretty well in my opinion!

Although I am totally 100% against abortion, I'm not going to to jump on a message board and start preaching to others about it. My views are like this, it's a life, you have an abortion and you destroy a life...whether unborn or not. And there's no such thing a "just a little bit pregnant", which lots of people seem to say when they have an abortion. "Oh, I was just a little pregnant so it doesn't matter".

Either way, people need to take more responsibilty for there actions. Now, in the case of a young girl being raped or the mothers possible death if going through with the birth...I'd have to say go ahead...because there are exceptions to every rule. But if 17 year old Suzie goes out, gets ravenously drunk, and has a 3 some with a couple of 30 year old men...then no, F that, you should'nt have been out getting trashed in the first place.

Now, wearing a shirt like this is trashy. Basically, like already said, the only people who will be wearing these are teenage girls who think it's funny. Sorta like the "Jesus is my Homeboy" shirts. Anyone other than that are basically people who are never going to succed in life past there dead end McDonald's jobs.

The morals of today's society are shot all to hell, and no that's not an attack at pro-choicers. I'm speaking more of 13 year old girls who've had sex more than there mothers, and the over 18 guys that are freely doing it with them. I guess that varies by area, but I see it all the time, Just the other day a guy I graduated with (I'm 21 btw) was bragging about his 14 year old girlfriend and how much of a "great fuck" she is.

Ok, that's about all I can say on this subject.
 
i agree with TDZ. if a girl were raped, IMO, that should be the only reason abortion should be allowed.

what i dont agree with is some chick out having casual sex and not using protection. Then she gets pregnant and decides she doesnt want it, so she gets an abortion.
 
[quote name='JohnHam']I'm 100% pro-life. I believe that regardless of circumstances, murder is never an acceptable alternative.

I know people that have had abortions, some very well. I don't know any that would like to advertise it. It was a traumatic experience or so I've been told. I doubt anyone who has actually had an abortion will wear one, save for extreme feminists.

I find the idea alone kind of disgusting.[/quote]

NO exceptions at all?

What if a 9 year old girl who had an early period gets raped by a pedophile and becomes pregnant.

It would literally be a life and death situation. You would have that girl die.


You people suck. I mean, you really suck. I'll bet you support the death penalty, like most other 100% pro-lifers.
 
my stance on abortion:

I have a birthdate, not a conception date.

I am 18 years and 11 months old, not 19 years and 8 months old.

No one considered me alive before I splattered out of my mother's womb and ceased being a parasitic cellular formation inside of her.

Go abortion, go these t-shirts, and god bless america.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='JohnHam']I'm 100% pro-life. I believe that regardless of circumstances, murder is never an acceptable alternative.

I know people that have had abortions, some very well. I don't know any that would like to advertise it. It was a traumatic experience or so I've been told. I doubt anyone who has actually had an abortion will wear one, save for extreme feminists.

I find the idea alone kind of disgusting.[/quote]

NO exceptions at all?

What if a 9 year old girl who had an early period gets raped by a pedophile and becomes pregnant.

It would literally be a life and death situation. You would have that girl die.


You people suck. I mean, you really suck. I'll bet you support the death penalty, like most other 100% pro-lifers.[/quote]

If you're assuming I support the death penalty, you really didn't read what I said. The death penalty is completely unrelated. (FYI - I am against it. I feel in inhumane, unnecessary, and life in prision is harsher punishment for some.)

You can come up with hypothetical situations all day, but it doesn't change the fact that I believe abortion is murder. You have to undrstand, you posing that question to me is like asking someone "Should I kill this person, or the other?"

It's really not a question either of us can answer and have the other be satisfied. It's the nature of the debate.
 
IMO, the first 3 or 4 weeks of pregnancy are not life. It is a sperm in an egg. You can argue that the sperm and the egg are going to become a baby, but I could point at a jizzrag and say that could've been life. Once the sperm and egg actually become something wholly new, then life begins. Just my opinion.
 
Also, as far as giving a baby up for adoption, it isn't really feasible. I'm a guy, so I can't say for sure if any of my feelings are accurate, but if I were a woman, pregnant with a baby I couldn't support, I would never be able to think of myself as an incubator for someone else's child. I would think of it as MY baby. Hell, I can't even give away my childhood stuffed animals. I could never see a little baby that I knew was part of me, and then just give it away like those ads in the paper for "Free Cat to Good Home".
 
[quote name='alongx']Murdering the unborn? That's kind of a loaded statement.
I guess we know where you stand on the issue. :?[/quote]

No shit? This guy had Ronald Reagan and the Bush-Cheny 2004 logo as avatars.

fucking Republicans. They are the deevolution of society.
 
[quote name='x0thedeadzone0x']I'm not going to classify myself as anything before I say something, but a lot of people here have very strong opinions about abortion, and here's where I at least stand. I believe that abortion was made legal only because of the sadly rare cases that a young girl or teen gets raped in the back of an alleyway and is scarred for the rest of her life. While I do realize Cracka that this may be true for most cases, some woman (And I don't agree with this) are too self-centered and concerned about themselves to care about another child, so they wouldn't want to have to go through the excruciating pain of having a baby and then putting it up for adoption and having it tear at their insides. The only time that I actually agree with it, though, is when 12 or 13 or similarly young girls are dragged into the woods/back alley/ wherever they might be and are raped on the scene and left there, probably obviously injured, and then later find out they are pregnant. How are they able to have the baby without becoming even more injured? 12 year olds could even die from birthing their fatherless child, and who knows if the baby would even deliver perfectly fine. It's not really right to call them sluts for having abortions, but I think they're wrong in doing so if they're old enough.
So exclaiming proudly that you had an abortion is pretty sick and wrong IMO, but for extreme cases I'm for it.[/quote]

Or the contraceptive fails. I'll be damned if you don't think a broken condom is a good reason for an abortion, if said broken condom ever happened to you.

(trying to say that as nicely as possible, as I have nothing against you)
 
[quote name='JohnHam'][quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='JohnHam']I'm 100% pro-life. I believe that regardless of circumstances, murder is never an acceptable alternative.

I know people that have had abortions, some very well. I don't know any that would like to advertise it. It was a traumatic experience or so I've been told. I doubt anyone who has actually had an abortion will wear one, save for extreme feminists.

I find the idea alone kind of disgusting.[/quote]

NO exceptions at all?

What if a 9 year old girl who had an early period gets raped by a pedophile and becomes pregnant.

It would literally be a life and death situation. You would have that girl die.


You people suck. I mean, you really suck. I'll bet you support the death penalty, like most other 100% pro-lifers.[/quote]

If you're assuming I support the death penalty, you really didn't read what I said. The death penalty is completely unrelated. (FYI - I am against it. I feel in inhumane, unnecessary, and life in prision is harsher punishment for some.)

You can come up with hypothetical situations all day, but it doesn't change the fact that I believe abortion is murder. You have to undrstand, you posing that question to me is like asking someone "Should I kill this person, or the other?"

It's really not a question either of us can answer and have the other be satisfied. It's the nature of the debate.[/quote]


WELL THAT IS THE QUESTION!

In that situation there are two options.

1. The girl has an abortion, she survives, cells were not mature so no baby was killed anyway.

2. Girl is forced to have baby. It would be impossible for either thei girl or the baby to survive childbirth. They both die.

With your option, #2, two people are murder, and if you made the decision the blood would be on YOUR hands.

Like I said, you are a bad person.
 
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