EA strikes back against Gamestop (USED must pay $20 dollars for new feature)

M

militantatheistaphob

CAG Veteran
The feature to download new player stats everyday for NBA Live is locked to your console with a code in the box. Buy used you must pay 19.99 to have the updates.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/10/02/playstation-store-update-54/

Will gamestop mention this to people who buy this game used?

Game companies can do whatever they want to restrict used game sales. They don't have to let you own resale rights to the game. Just like an artist doesn't have to sale his painting, but instead can rent it out for you to hang in your house for a day.

Only a one console future could kill gamestop. I think the console wars prevent crazy DRM
 
Wow. That's actually the biggest load of bullshit I've heard in a long, long time. Or at least since the Spore debacle.
 
I like this idea. Not only because EA is going after Gamestop's gravy train but also because EA is specifically using this in a flagship title and not going after the collector's market.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']What about when (not if) your 360 dies? Are you just fucked?[/quote]

Only if you are not connected to live, but that's an xbox issue not an EA issue.
 
first releasing burnout paradise on PSN, then release bike for free. I wonder if GS will do anything about it
 
[quote name='62t']first releasing burnout paradise on PSN, then release bike for free. I wonder if GS will do anything about it[/quote]

Drop Used Game Prices.
 
[quote name='62t']first releasing burnout paradise on PSN, then release bike for free. I wonder if GS will do anything about it[/quote]

Probably drop the price of a used copy of NBA Live by $20, they'll still make a profit. I joke of course.

I'm interested to see how this pans out, EA are big enough that if they keep this up they may actually hurt GS.

Now if Activision started making similar moves............:whistle2:k
 
I'm not even a fan of sports games but wow that royally sucks. I mean $20 for updates and not to mention sport games come out every year, just blows. So EA is already hurting their consumer with heavily DRM pc games, and now their targeting console games? ugh.

I hope this doesn't catch on with other companies, or else I'll probably wind up spending less time gaming with all this nonsense in the future. I should be able to buy used merchandise just like almost everything else out there like cars, books etc. without being penalized for it.
 
Pretty shitty, since I get most of my games off of Goozex these days.

In this case I wasn't buying the game anyway and if I was I wouldn't care about getting updated stats anyway, but I still don't like it as it's a slippery slope where they could take away more worthwhile features from used copies in the future.
 
You know... it's funny how I always call out EA and get flamed. Yet something like this gets posted and suddenly people don't like EA.

They are still around for a reason people. Don't buy their fucking shit and they won't be able to do this kind of crap or won't be around at all. Simple as that.
 
[quote name='magus83'] I should be able to buy used merchandise just like almost everything else out there like cars, books etc. without being penalized for it.[/quote]

Translation: I should be able to force an artist to have no benefit from unlimited numbers of people after me enjoying his work.

Movie theaters don't let you sell a used copy of your viewing for you to sale. DRM locked to you is the same as a movie theater ticket.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']You know... it's funny how I always call out EA and get flamed. Yet something like this gets posted and suddenly people don't like EA.

They are still around for a reason people. Don't buy their fucking shit and they won't be able to do this kind of crap or won't be around at all. Simple as that.[/quote]


I've stopped buying long time ago... not because they suck, which they do, but they haven't released anything that is near enjoyable... double suck.
 
[quote name='militantatheistaphob']
Movie theaters don't let you sell a used copy of your viewing for you to sale. DRM locked to you is the same as a movie theater ticket.[/QUOTE]

I don't see it as quite the same. When I go to the movies tonight, I'm paying $10 for the experience of seeing the movie on the big screen. I'm not buying any property.

When I buy a movie on DVD, I'm paying to own a copy, that I can do whatever I like with other than make other copies of due to the encryption laws. That includes keeping it to watch as many times as I want, or selling it or giving it to someone else if I don't want it (as long as I'm not keeping a ripped copy for myself).

Now they can change the laws, go to digital distribution only and make it so we don't really own any property. They do that, and I'm done buying games, movies etc. I'd quit gaming and just leave movie watching only in theaters since my money isn't really buying anything.

If I don't get something I can sell later, I didn't buy anything and get no assets for my money. It's ok for something where I'm paying for an experience--going to a movie theater, a concert, a sporting event etc. But not when I'm wanting to own something outright.
 
EA is definitely trying creative things to stick it to the man, I'll give them that. This might be overkill though.
 
Is this an advertised feature that's mentioned on the box or game manuel? If it is and it doesn't mention any form of payment, I smell a class action lawsuit!
 
A movie maker never has to release his show on DVD. He can just keep releasing it in theaters or only on pay per view. Its the artists choice on whether he feels you should have the option to own and resale a copy.

People who rent an artists work to make money off the artists work are practically stealing, because there is no devaluation after each rental like their is in rental cars or other physical goods
 
I got no beef with this. Game companies don't see as much profit as some people seem to think they do.

EDIT: Also
The feature to download new player stats everyday for NBA Live is locked to your console with a code in the box.
Click to expand...
Its not like you couldn't find an unused code.
 
[quote name='wubb']I'd just play it w/o daily updated player stats. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

I am with you there. No big deal to me. Whats it save like $5 to buy a used copy when the game is newer? So you stack that with a 10-20% coupon and save the $20 to get the game used. If you want all the features then buy new.

I really have no complaints on this. I can see why others do.

I can see the next logical step being that DLC being locked on all future games. Again makes sense to me. The base game is there so thats what counts...now if they continue to rush games and then fill in the gaps with DLC then I could see a huge problem.
 
It would not be a CLA because of the fact that when you buy the product it is there.

You can't have a CLA against EA because you bought the game second hand.

I hate gamestop and used game sales.

I hope more pubs lock onto this.
 
[quote name='militantatheistaphob']A movie maker never has to release his show on DVD. He can just keep releasing it in theaters or only on pay per view. Its the artists choice on whether he feels you should have the option to own and resale a copy.

People who rent an artists work to make money off the artists work are practically stealing, because there is no devaluation after each rental like their is in rental cars or other physical goods[/quote]

Who says anything about selling a rental? People who purchase it have resale rights. If an artist sells something, the new owner can resell it. Paintings get sold all the time. Does the artist get anything out of this? And games do go down in price. Just go to Gamestop and tell me how many $50 games are for sale in the bargin bins.

For whatever reason creators of software feel that they're better than anyone else and should be exempt from the laws of economics. 90% of the games and movies I purchase are either on sale, have had a price reduction or two or are used. If a developer/publisher don't like it or can't make any money under these circumstances, then they should get out of the business and find something else to do.

I really find it hard to believe that so many people on a site called Cheap Ass Gamer would approve of such tactics.
 
Gamestop should release stats on how much revenue they make off a certain individual game.

We then could have the developers tell us how much revenue they made off that game.

It is theoretically possible for game maker to make one thousand off game while gamestop makes one million off the same game just by reselling it.

A Parasitic relationship
 
The problem is if you make a product and decide to sell it to consumers, consumers can do whatever they want with that copy of that product.

They make money off of new sales. They can't make money off of second hand sales. It's true for any sold product.

Only way around it is to go digital distribution where people don't own a physical product but just a license to play a digital copy on one machine. That's the only way they can kill the second hand market.

But that would likely drive so many people away from buying at all that they'd come out worse than they are now.

Look, I hate gamestop as much as anyone and haven't shopped there in years. But if I'm going to buy a product, I have to be able to do as I please with that product in terms of being able to sell it as long as I'm not keeping a copy for myself.
 
You don't always have resale rights per-say. I remember games like Sonic stating on the cartridge "Not fore Resale," because at the time, that's the best they could do.
 
[quote name='Cao Cao']I can totally see this backfiring on them.[/quote]

If they can get away with charging $50 or $60 a year for the same game for 20 years, every year. I doubt this will hurt them.

[quote name='mogamer']Is this an advertised feature that's mentioned on the box or game manuel? If it is and it doesn't mention any form of payment, I smell a class action lawsuit![/quote]

Tell lilboo that NBALive comes with a Latin boy!
 
This is great for the industry, a strike against GameStop, and only hurtful to some. As stated in many prior discussions, only GameStop makes money on used game sales; the game publisher sees none of that. In fact, now that games are online, it costs about $2-4 to maintain an account on the server for a year, active or not, so any new online users (like from people buying second-hand) actually cost the publisher money.

Speaking of Burnout... When the new update packs were released, there was a spike in new users coming online...but only a slight bump in new game sales. In fact, many people re-purchased their copy of the game...from GameStop. That was money the publisher/developer spent to make new content and that they didn't see returned to them. The ideal way things would have turned out for this group of people was that the new content would be better publicized earlier so that they would just hold on to their original copy. (And, no, a story on a gaming blog doesn't count as advertising.)

The unfortunate reality is that publishers need to get paid, to pay developers, to continue to make games. If you buy used, sure you're getting an experience for cheap, but you're not effectively showing your appreciation to the people who actually matter.

I certainly do buy tons of used games at GameStop, often 10+ each week. However, I do also make a point of supporting certain publishers/developers/genres by specifically buying new. (i.e. Okami PS2 & Wii, Alone in the Dark 360 & Wii, Indigo Prophecy, Atlus, Nintendo, Q?, etc.) You really do have to vote with your dollar. Having fans means nothing to businesses unless they can monetize them to survive and prosper.

So the question comes to this. Do you love games or are they just something to play?

Fortunately in this case, this is an ancillary feature. Anyone hardcore who would want it would generally buy the game new anyway. People who casually pick it up later probably don't care about constant stat updates; they won't be missing out on anything that mattered to them.
 
[quote name='dafunkk12']
So the question comes to this. Do you love games or are they just something to play?
[/QUOTE]

I think that's actually fair. For me they're just something to play. I enjoy them a lot, but if I had to cut a hobby they'd be the first to go.

Thus I don't care jack shit about supporting developers etc. I just buy games I want to play for the best price I can get. Most of the time lately I just get them off Goozex, other than stuff like Gears 2 that I'm dying to play and will buy day 1.
 
Would be Funny if Sports Games stopped working when the new one came out. An advertisement would come up on your screen to buy the new one when your system clock hit the right date.
 
Well, first off, EA has every right to do this, they want to, so be it.

That being said, I think game companies often make untrue assumptions about the used market. Just because I'm willing to buy a game for $5 or $10 used, does not mean I would have paid $20 for it new. Maybe I'd pay a $1 or $2 to get it new, but for the most part, I go and buy games once they hit my price point, and used games as a whole don't bother me.

Not only that, many people buy new games so they can have the game for all the hype, and then they sell it for a signicant portion of their money back (something like an extended rental). If they are instantly losing $20 right off the top on their $60 game, let alone further depreciation, they may just say screw it, and not buy the game.

It'll be interesting to see who wins this little tug of war. If EA can stick it to Gamestop, expect every video game developer to follow suit.
 
Gears does something similar for multiplayer maps. I like it, if you are too cheap to buy new and support the company, why should you be rewarded?
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']Because I don't like being raped in da ass by overpriced crap. (do note... we are talking about EA here, not Gears)[/quote]

Don't buy it used then.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']You don't always have resale rights per-say. I remember games like Sonic stating on the cartridge "Not fore Resale," because at the time, that's the best they could do.[/quote]
That Sonic cart was probably a pack-in game. Sega didn't want retailers taking those games out of the package and selling them individually.
 
Anyone who sides with EA on this one is crazy. It's just the first step in a slippery slope. Today it's one feature that's locked out,.. tomorrow it'll be the whole game. I absolutely LOATHE Gamestop but it's not because of how they treat publishers.. it's because of how they treat consumers.

This is a war between giant corporations that is putting us, the consumers, the lifeblood of BOTH of these companies, in the firing line.

If EA wants to reduce second hand sales and NOT alienate their customers, the proper way to do that is to NOT release minor updates of the same game year after year, make games have lasting appeal through things like expanded content(like Burnout Paradises recent updates), or appealing and well built *EXTRA* features sold as DLC. These DLC features need to be completely voluntary and not detract from the product as it comes in the box WHATSOEVER.

I just hope that console gamers are smart enough to take issue with this like PC gamers did with Spore.

(also, anyone who doubts the right of resale should google the First Sale Doctrine.. "a copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy end once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made")


..and mogamer was absolutely right about the Sonic games. thats akin to the bottles of Coke in a 6-pack being labled "no individual sale". It's aimed at retail sellers, not consumers.
 
I found this very funny actually. I plan to buy NBA Live 09 new anyway, so this isn't a problem.

GS tries so hard to push used copies of sports games (telling them to buy used due to longer warranty, I heard that one before).

I side with EA here.
 
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[quote name='VipFREAK']Because I don't like being raped in da ass by overpriced crap. (do note... we are talking about EA here, not Gears)[/quote]

So you'll buy Gears new, but NOTHING from EA, because EA by default is raping you of your money?
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Don't buy it used then.[/quote]

I don't, especially after finding yourfree360games.com

Only EA I've ever owned is NHL 08 and 09. The NHL series is probably the only non worthless part of EA too.
 
EA should advertise this in a prominent place on the front of the box.

To be honest it's hard to come down on them for this one though. WOW charges people $20 a month (I think?) for content and noone complains.

It's not like this gimps the game.
 
[quote name='mogamer']That Sonic cart was probably a pack-in game. Sega didn't want retailers taking those games out of the package and selling them individually.[/QUOTE]

Yeah kind of like the Zelda collectors edition that flooded gamestops for $50 used. Not for resale plastered all over the place, did it matter? No.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']So you'll buy Gears new, but NOTHING from EA, because EA by default is raping you of your money?[/quote]

I guess doing the same thing over and over would be more a kin to a long boring marriage than all the thrills of rape.
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']So you'll buy Gears new, but NOTHING from EA, because EA by default is raping you of your money?[/quote]

Generally, I don't usually buy ANY game new if I can help it... but, uh... yeah pretty much. I mean, at least the Gears guys TRY to improve their game if they come out with another one as well as not putting the same crap out every year for $59.99. :roll:
 
I don't have a problem with this at all. I don't buy used games so it really wouldn't be an issue for me, but anyone who tries to turn this into an issue of buyers/sellers rights is totally off base. The only people this would affect are people who are buying the game used and those people by definition are not EA's customers. If you're not buying it new you're not buying it from EA. So why the fuck should they give a shit about you be able to use 100% of the features in their game that they have to constantly update without paying them for them? They're not stopping anyone from selling the disk they just bought. All they are saying is that it's a disk that comes with a one-time-use code that enables online stats. You want to sell that feature when you sell your disk, then don't use the code and sell it with the disk. Nobody's stopping you from doing that.

You people and your used cars anaologies kill me. Well look at it this way - You buy a brand new car and it come with a full tank of gas. You drive your car around for a week and decide to sell it. You don't get to sell it as a car with a full tank of gas anymore do you? It's not like anyone is preventing that gas tank from being refilled. It's just gonna cost you some money to do it. The code that comes with the game is a consumable just like xbox live memberships, point cards, and any other single use code based items that we're all already forking over money for right now.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't think for a second that anyone is infringing on your rights to sell your game disk or the code that comes with it. You bought your copy used and want that code? Then pay your 20 bucks and buy one. That code doesn't stop you from playing the game just as not having some unlockable bullshit costume you'd get from a pre-order code doesn't stop you from playing a game either.
 
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