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CAGcast #144: Mushroom Clouded Minds


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#61 AshesofWake

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 03:58 AM

Eww... Wombat likes glorified cop thrillers with a bad Batman voice and obvious loop-holes

Spoiler
I'm tired of TDK being praised like it was the Godfather of this generation.



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#62 terpkristin

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 04:00 PM

Good show, with a nice cameo by ship.

I'm not the comic book fan that Wombat is, but I thought that the last 30 minutes of TDK were really drawn out. Loved the movie up to then (even though it was a bit gratuitously violent at times), but the last 30 minutes could have been wrapped up a LOT quicker. I agree with Wombat that the ending wasn't what the foreshadowing suggested it'd be.

Hope mrs. ship feels better! Strep throat is no fun.

/tk
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#63 bsesb2003

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 07:00 PM

Good show, with a nice cameo by ship.

I'm not the comic book fan that Wombat is, but I thought that the last 30 minutes of TDK were really drawn out. Loved the movie up to then (even though it was a bit gratuitously violent at times), but the last 30 minutes could have been wrapped up a LOT quicker. I agree with Wombat that the ending wasn't what the foreshadowing suggested it'd be.

Hope mrs. ship feels better! Strep throat is no fun.

/tk


Not to ruin the ending, but what did you think the foreshadowing was...that Batman would kill Joker and go against his code?
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#64 Wolfkin

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 07:49 PM

that does remind me Wombat should put up a CAG blog about The Dark Knight and the failings you saw with the ending.

Not everyone needs to look like a 16 year old girl cosplaying a 16 year old boy, every-Japanese-artist-ever.

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#65 terpkristin

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:47 PM

Not to ruin the ending, but what did you think the foreshadowing was...that Batman would kill Joker and go against his code?


Let me start by admitting 2 things:
1) I'm not a comic book nerd, I don't know much of the story that goes on in the series.
2) By and large, I thought the story was amazing, it was only the last 30 minutes or so that drove me nuts.

Spoiler


Admittedly, I'm not well-versed enough in the lore of Batman to really nitpick stuff, and I'm sure Wombat's reasons are different from mine for his dissatisfaction of the end. I guess it's just that the end didn't seem to match up with the beginning or with what I expected.

It is what it is. Commence the hate. :D

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#66 Wolfkin

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 09:02 PM

Spoiler


Admittedly, I'm not well-versed enough in the lore of Batman to really nitpick stuff,


Off-Topic discussion...
Spoiler


that said your points are perfectly valid. one of the things I dislike about the movie is how much they strayed from that image.

Edited by Wolfkin, 27 December 2008 - 09:52 PM.

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#67 terpkristin

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 09:49 PM

Off-Topic discussion...


Fair enough, that explanation makes a bit of sense. Though I stand by my thoughts, as one who's uninitiated, what you've said may have changed my opinion had I known it before I saw the flick. Just proves that nobody should be coming to me to bone up on comic book myth and lore. ;)

/off topic stuff
/tk
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#68 bsesb2003

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 09:52 PM

Off-Topic discussion...

Spoiler


Actually in the movie -- after he's dropped, the head mob guy states to Batman that everybody knows Batman plays by the rules.
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#69 DreadMech

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:14 AM

Wombat, since there was a pretty big discussion of comics on the Cagcast, I wanted to talk comics for comics sake since I just read Watchmen. I thought I heard before you had read it (and I believe you are a Dc comics man) but can you (or any other CAG) tell me why Ozymandias did what he did?
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#70 Wolfkin

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:57 AM

Actually in the movie -- after he's dropped, the head mob guy states to Batman that everybody knows Batman plays by the rules.

I'm pretty sure it was said before he dropped him and a couple times in scenes before that one, and that's one the minor issues I pick with the movie.

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#71 Wombat

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 01:44 PM

This is full of spoilers so skip this post if you dont want to know.


here is the issue with the two face ending, throughout the movie Harvey is the enemy of the Mob and vows to take them down any way possible. You also have the Joker plot, part of his plot line is how Gotham "deserves a better class of criminal". The Joker also charges the mob 50% of all their money.

The idea of half the money is important, foreshadowing. What does he do when get his half, he burns it. Half burnt, sounds familiar, more foreshadowing.

Harvey knows where all the money is also, because Eric Roberts tells the police so they can get the Joker. The police never make it because of the whole hospital thing.

Harvey wanting revenge on Gordon doesn't fit, the Joker also doesnt really plant that seed when he is in the hospital. Harvey needs to go after the mob. It should end with Harvey taking down the Mob the only way he really can. By becoming the mob (like he does in the comics). It should end with harvy half burnt standing behind the half burnt giant pile of money. Its the twisted ending, where everyone wins.

Harvey does take down the mob, and the Joker gets his new wave of criminal. Its a better ending. I can go into more detail but this post is long enough.

#72 Wolfkin

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:19 PM

i didn't see that hole but that does make a better ending.

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#73 SonicHog91

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:10 PM

Wow, another great CAGcast with shipwreck! And what a way to wrap up the year too. I personally agree with Wombat's position on system-sellers and new IPs. But I didn't care for, however, yet another bashing of LBP. You have got to stop beating that damn dead horse! You don't like the game. That's fine. But seriously--no more bashing, sirs! Otherwise, great show.

By the way, Wombat, how did you get that "mushroom man in my pants" joke? Was that random or what?

#74 padumavati

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:04 PM

*Spoilers, and whatnot*

I think Wombat's proposed ending is much better than what was actually in the movie, or at least is more sensical. Dent's rage does seem contrived, and frankly I was done as soon as the hospital blew up. Also, I was super-pissed with what they did with Renee Montoya's character, especially after how awesome she is in 52.

#75 Johnny2900

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:19 PM

I know you guys have been playing Sonic Unleashed for the :360: but have you tried the Wii version? This version is speeded up on the hub worlds and get you straight to the levels. I do agree with Shipwreck about the werehog levels being a separate game when I was playing it, I thought fit to be a Knuckles level. Anyway great show see ya next episode!

#76 Shrapnellistic

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:53 PM

That's a more satisfying ending Wombat, coming from a kid who's never read a comic in his life. Actually, once I read that, the current ending The Dark Knight has looks shit now.

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#77 Smallville123

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 01:33 AM

This is full of spoilers so skip this post if you dont want to know.


here is the issue with the two face ending, throughout the movie Harvey is the enemy of the Mob and vows to take them down any way possible. You also have the Joker plot, part of his plot line is how Gotham "deserves a better class of criminal". The Joker also charges the mob 50% of all their money.

The idea of half the money is important, foreshadowing. What does he do when get his half, he burns it. Half burnt, sounds familiar, more foreshadowing.

Harvey knows where all the money is also, because Eric Roberts tells the police so they can get the Joker. The police never make it because of the whole hospital thing.

Harvey wanting revenge on Gordon doesn't fit, the Joker also doesnt really plant that seed when he is in the hospital. Harvey needs to go after the mob. It should end with Harvey taking down the Mob the only way he really can. By becoming the mob (like he does in the comics). It should end with harvy half burnt standing behind the half burnt giant pile of money. Its the twisted ending, where everyone wins.

Harvey does take down the mob, and the Joker gets his new wave of criminal. Its a better ending. I can go into more detail but this post is long enough.


You're ending sounds better.
Insert clever line here......

#78 bardiya27

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:09 AM

Mushroom in my pants; funniest cag moment for me.

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#79 DarkNessBear

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:08 AM

What does he mean by "new wave of criminal?" I haven't seen it in a while. Was it he wants people to cause crimes for fun, not for any personal/financial gain?
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#80 Wombat

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:12 AM

What does he mean by "new wave of criminal?" I haven't seen it in a while. Was it he wants people to cause crimes for fun, not for any personal/financial gain?


he wants criminals that are more creative and have more style. He is predicting the fall of the mob and the rise of more costumed villans.

#81 volt1up

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:31 AM

he wants criminals that are more creative and have more style. He is predicting the fall of the mob and the rise of more costumed villans.


In Nolan's Batman, I think there are themes that the films adhere to , and it ended how it ended to emphasize them. Somebody put it to me this way when talking about why harvey dent does what he does.

The movie was basically about whether people were evil or good at heart. Joker was evil, Batman was good, and all the people caught up in it were trying to figure out for themselves. Everything the Joker did to the public made them choose between good and evil. Everything was 1 decision away... just as the line in the first movie that your actions define you. The boat scene for the good and Harvey's decent into evil with just one push.



#82 Conboy

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 02:32 PM

This is to answer DreadMech's question about Watchmen, Ozzymandius did what he did to stop the world from going to nuclear war. The Doomsday clock ticking down throughout the book show that the US and the Soviets are heading towards war.

The standoff represented a Gordian knot, no easy way to undo the knot, so Ozzy had to "think outside the box" with this elaborate plot, that would trick the world into believing there was an invasion, and a unified world would defeat the alien invaders.
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#83 firen

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:08 PM

Good show, good to see that Team Xbox (Ship, Cheapy, and Wombat) have reformed to make another awesome CAGcast.

Little big Planet - Oh how loved this game used to be on the Cagcast, now its like the blacksheep of the Show. If the 360 had a game that was similar to LBP, you guys would be all over it. Ship, I listen to your show, and I listen to you comment about god awful games, (no, NOT games) - shovelware that you've played through and enjoyed, yet you can't get any type of enjoyment out of Little Big Planet?! You just bought Timeshift? - I'm assuming that you think you're going to get some sort of enjoyment out of that little gem as well. I know you guys didn't like the game, (except Wombat) but at least before putting the game on the bottom of the shelf, try out some of the great user created levels. The motivation of the game is to experience the imagination of others. You go through the single player game to unlock stuff, but the single player portion of the game is a intoduction leading you to the main portion of the game which is the online portion where you play, create and share. The point of LBP is NOT to regurgitate levels from other games, although its fun to reminisce, however its about creating new experiences. You guys run through the game, miss the entire point of the game, and then critize it to kingdom come on the show.


What's your motivation, for a platformer? While I'd agree that the story isn't amazing or anything like that, but I'm not sure what motivation you'd need to keep playing through each level if you're enjoying it like any other platformer out there. I kept playing it to see what other cool and creative stuff MM came up for each level. Of course MM built their own levels with the exact same toolset that the players get to mess around with, which gives the users an idea of what they can accomplish and it's also because it's such a deep toolset.

I was surprised to hear Shipwreck shitting on the game, bashing reviewers for liking it, and just making the definitive statement that nobody should like LBP. I guess it's not your thing after you seemed to be stroking your game boner for it a week or so before it came out, but the game is definitely not crap. I also don't get why buying the MGS4 level pack, which seems to do a great job of mixing MGS and LBP's humor and charm into the six levels in the pack, means we're part of the problem as far as purchasing DLC is concerned. I'm not hating on you for not liking the game, just displaying confusion over these harsh statements compared to what you usually say about games you do or don't like on CAG Foreplay.

Can't have an M-rated game in a bundle? What about the MGS4 PS3 bundles? I imagine Uncharted was bundled to get people familiar with the game so they have a better chance for the sequel to sell next fall. I've got the feeling this year that there are very, very few system sellers after GTAIV, MGS4, LBP, and others failed to really do anything but make a small blip on the radar while Wii Sports and maybe Wii Fit seem to be doing the things the others can't do for the Wii. Maybe it's that the system itself is only $250 while the Xbox 360 and PS3 do cost a bit more.

I don't think much has to be changed about RE5's controls at the moment, at the very least some simplification of the controls for simple things like slashing your knife and reloading. I do think that not being able to provide a tense atmosphere without needing to make it harder to move around doesn't really make any sense to me.

I think we all know what will be the disappointments and great games that are mentioned next week.


This was also one of my "motivations." After I saw the badass Snake Temple level, and the subsequently more interesting Japan and India themed levels, I was in love with it. I was very surprised to hear Shipwreck say that he thought that MM should have made the levels with some sort of "special" editor. That defeats the purpose of the entire game! What makes LBP special is that EVERYTHING you play in the "single player" portion of the game can be done by you. Whether you care enough to try is beside the point. If you use the newer search functions that have been added, you can see some absolutely brilliant levels being created, some by members of the CAG community. Maybe Cheapy and the others could take a few minutes out of their busy schedules to check out DarknessBear's amazing Dead Space level? They will see that it's not all penis levels (actually, there are no penis levels, as far as I've seen). Definitely play with others, too! Grabbing each other, slapping, chatting while playing, and following each other (while vandalizing each other's pods) is half of the fun of the game!


I wholeheartedly agree with you guys. The comment about how MM used the level creator to create the levels really got to me. NO SHIT they used the level creator. The single-player severed multiple purposes including the fact that it is a showcase for what the level creator is capable of. In fact people are going beyond MM's expectations. There some really really creative stuff on there. I am having quite a bit of fun with the game and I have yet to really invest any time in the level creator. So your argument fails in that sense. Sure you guys might not enjoy the game but to shit on it like you did was very much unjustified.

Oh and I rented Saints Row 2. It was pretty fun but I made the mistake of renting Motorstorm PR the same day and didn't touch SR2. I'll give it another shot though because I somewhat enjoyed the opening levels.

#84 Kfoster1979

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:25 PM

OK Dukes of Hazzard (someone may have said this but I am going to again, but a search of the thread gave me nothing)

There is at least one black guy: Sheriff Little from Chickasaw county ;)


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#85 ecmazza

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:42 PM

Guys,

I disagree about your opinions on LittleBigPlanet. I know we can have different opinions about games, so not mad or anything like that, but I totally disagree.

I love LBP and I have not created a single thing in the game, nor do I plan on doing so. I really enjoy the single player game, playing the great user-made levels, and playing with other friends online.

I think the single-player levels are very creative and charming. No, the game does not control like a Mario game. It is a slower, more deliberate platformer, that takes into account mass and momentum. I do not think you are meant to just run and jump quickly through the levels, but rather take your time with them, get your speed and jumps down right, enjoy the aesthetics of the levels, etc.

But yeah, we have different opinions, no worries, just wanted to give my 2 cents. Great show and happy New Year!
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#86 Wombat

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:59 PM

Yeah I think we are all done talking about LBP, although for the record I never said it was a bad game, just not for me. I can see why the people that love it, love it. I just don't think I will ever be one of those people.

#87 Tengaport

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:07 PM

to chime in a little on Gears of War 2's decline on XBox Live:

I am a huge fan of the series, and as much as I love the multiplayer I'll be the first to admit it's frustratingly inconsistent ( http://www.cheapassg...blog.php?b=5117 ). The issues that plagued the first Gears are still present in the sequel - not to mention the lengthy (at times) matchmaking process which only adds fuel to the annoying fire.

GOW2 still gets the bulk of my Xbox Live time, but regardless of Private or Public matches you never know what you're going to get from the game day after day.

Great game, but it could be so much better if Epic sorted their mess out.

#88 thung621

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:21 PM

Hey CheapyD,

First time poster here but a long time listener of your awesome podcast.

Just wanted to give you a heads up since you seem to be watching alot of documentaries lately. You should really watch this documentary called "The Great Happiness Space: The Tale of an Osaka Love Thief" on netflix. It's avaliable through live streaming on netflix. It's a documenary on Japanese hosts in Japan and their female customers, why they come to host clubs, and what it's like for Japanese men to do this kind of work. I thought you'd be interested in this documentary since I also remember in one of your older podcast, you mentioned you had a friend who worked at a host club and had to eat Poo for a ridculous amount of money. Anyways hope you watch it because I think you would find this documentary very fascinating.

On a different note, speaking of movies, you should really watch "Slumdog Millionaire" which is out in theaters right now. Great Movie.

Tony

#89 DarkNessBear

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 02:08 AM

he wants criminals that are more creative and have more style. He is predicting the fall of the mob and the rise of more costumed villans.

Ohh, cool. Thank you sir!

AND with that, I love your ending idea a lot better than the movies... and about Dark Knight
Spoiler


#90 DQT

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 02:39 AM

Strell once (maybe twice) asked if it was possible to flag an entire thread for trolling.

I now wonder if it's possible to flag a podcast for trolling.

I really enjoyed this episode guys. Good job.

Edit: Wombat: Use the spoiler tags! Your suggestion works much, much better. I loved TDK a lot. But that part did feel really contrived.