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Obama Care Could Be Deadly


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#4801 dohdough

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:23 PM

Actually, I'm fairly sure that no Republican's voted for the Senate bill. Remember, the Democrats had 60 votes then. AFTER the bill passed, Kennedy died and Scott Brown was elected to replace him. The house was even worse, they couldn't get ANYONE there (that was a Republican) to vote for the thing or work on it.

Whoops, you're right. I could've sworn that Snowe actually voted for it. Guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction.

edit: I'm fully aware of how capital gains works, but thanks anyways. What I'm getting at about capital gains is that it's only a miniscule step in a better direction. I'm in full agreement with you on it being too low and would rather see a comprehensive hike to a much higher level. The only compromise I would be ok with is to have the rates inline with progressive earned income tax rates.

#4802 Blaster man

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:27 PM

Whoops, you're right. I could've sworn that Snowe actually voted for it. Guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction.


Snowe and a couple other moderates worked on it with the Democrats but towards the end they abandoned it because of political pressure from the right (tea party).

By the way, I'm not sure about the income requirement for the capital gains. I googled a bit but couldn't find it anywhere. If it's really over 200k then most people wouldn't pay the extra capital gains for sale of stock either.

#4803 Spokker

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:28 PM

It seems to me that it doesn't really fix what's wrong with the health care system and just makes what we already have bigger.

#4804 Blaster man

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:29 PM

It seems to me that it doesn't really fix what's wrong with the health care system and just makes what we already have bigger.


It starts to fix it. What do you think it doesn't address? Keep in mind this law is huge...

#4805 dohdough

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:31 PM

Snowe and a couple other moderates worked on it with the Democrats but towards the end they abandoned it because of political pressure from the right (tea party).

Right.

By the way, I'm not sure about the income requirement for the capital gains. I googled a bit but couldn't find it anywhere. If it's really over 200k then most people wouldn't pay the extra capital gains for sale of stock either.

That's because it's not tied to all forms of capital gains, but only real estate sales hence my example.

If you google "PPACA capital gains," you'll find all the relevant links.

#4806 Spokker

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:32 PM

It starts to fix it. What do you think it doesn't address? Keep in mind this law is huge...


It tries to act like a single payer system without really being a single payer system. It's a huge gift to big pharma. I think it's going to collapse under its own weight eventually.

Since a totally free market system is never going to happen because libertarians are evil, I would be happy with one of these systems, namely the Swiss or German systems.

http://www.pbs.org/w...orld/countries/

#4807 Blaster man

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:37 PM

That's because it's not tied to all forms of capital gains, but only real estate sales hence my example.

If you google "PPACA capital gains," you'll find all the relevant links.


It does apply to sale of stock, divident, interest income, and all other capital gains by the looks of it. But only for high earners so it won't touch most people. Page 6, at the bottom.

https://docs.google....k5_EN2NIAN-ssOg



It tries to act like a single payer system without really being a single payer system. It's a huge gift to big pharma. I think it's going to collapse under its own weight eventually.

Since a totally free market system is never going to happen because libertarians are evil, I would be happy with one of these systems, namely the Swiss or German systems.

http://www.pbs.org/w...orld/countries/

I'm not sure why you would say it acts like a single payer system. A single payer system is drastically different than this. People will have to buy insurance or pay a tax (fee). Since this will bring so many healthy and uninsured people into the system, it will barely move the needle on cost for the unhealthy uninsured it brings in. That's the whole point of the mandate. Forcing someone to buy private insurance is not the same as a single payer system (by a long shot).

#4808 dohdough

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

It does apply to sale of stock, divident, interest income, and all other capital gains by the looks of it. But only for high earners so it won't touch most people. Page 6, at the bottom.

https://docs.google....k5_EN2NIAN-ssOg

Right again. I like you!:lol:

I'm not going to lie though, I saw all of those think tank links and just jumped straight to snopes...LOLZ.

#4809 irideabike

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

The biggest problem it doesn't address is the jacked up rates/fees that hospitals charge, and the cost of insurance/medical bills will continue to go up. Oh well, someday we will address the problems and stop putting bandaids on everything.
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#4810 nasum

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

wow, it didn't even take a couple of minutes for the chicken little crowd to show up on the Yhaoo comments. These people are just hilarious...
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#4811 camoor

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:50 PM

Woohoo! I am happy today :D

#4812 nasum

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:50 PM

The biggest problem it doesn't address is the jacked up rates/fees that hospitals charge, and the cost of insurance/medical bills will continue to go up. Oh well, someday we will address the problems and stop putting bandaids on everything.


If you subscribe to the notion that providers have to jack up their prices to cover the gap between covered procedures and what the patient ends up able to pay, then you can see that coverage costs (to the consumer) and payments (to the providers) should become more balanced.
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#4813 Clak

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:03 PM

Wow, surprised that Roberts didn't side with the other conservatives. Either way it's a good day.
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#4814 dohdough

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:07 PM

Boner said he wasn't going to spike the ball if it got overturned...LOLZ...yeah right, but in the same spirit of the hyper partisanship that he and his party formented, SUCK IT REPUBLIfucks!

#4815 Guest_Pliskin101_*

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:15 PM

Yep it's a great day. Obama will NOT be re-elected.
Our government will spend millions of dollars and hours repealing this stupid ass shit. More wasted time and money. I am so happy :roll:. The economy sucks and yet there are more taxes to pay and more political BS like this for our government to waste its time and money on fixing.

So woohoo Obama will lose the election but boo as it will take valuable time, effort and money to do away with the monumental stupidity and recklessness of Obama.

#4816 Clak

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:22 PM



Replace Trebek with Boehner. ;)
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#4817 Spokker

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:38 PM

If the fine is 2.5% of income or $695 after 2016, won't it be more cost effective to just pay the fine and then get insurance when you get sick since they can't deny you for preexisting conditions?

Or is reasonable health insurance going to really be less than $700 a year when everything goes into effect?

#4818 mykevermin

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:45 PM

If the fine is 2.5% of income or $695 after 2016


the lesser or greater of?
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#4819 KingBroly

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:59 PM

Yep it's a great day. Obama will NOT be re-elected.
Our government will spend millions of dollars and hours repealing this stupid ass shit. More wasted time and money. I am so happy :roll:. The economy sucks and yet there are more taxes to pay and more political BS like this for our government to waste its time and money on fixing.

So woohoo Obama will lose the election but boo as it will take valuable time, effort and money to do away with the monumental stupidity and recklessness of Obama.


I don't think Obama will lose the election, but I think the slim chances of the Democrats regaining control of the House and a plurality in the Senate just went jumping out the window of a 30-story* building. You're right in that it rallies the Republican base as well as any anti-Obamacare mantra that's out there but would probably remain on the sidelines before this. This just means another 4 years of gridlock. Good thing it starts with a tax increase on January 1st
Spoiler
. That'll make things just peachy.

I don't like the ruling because it's clear judicial activism. Changing the bill from the bench is what was done here, and that's a serious problem. I'm sure liberals would feel the same way if something like this happened to them. But I fully expect a 'well it didn't, SNAR SNAR SNAR' reply now, but it will come back around to bite you in the ass sooner or later.

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#4820 Guest_Pliskin101_*

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:10 PM

I don't think Obama will lose the election, but I think the slim chances of the Democrats regaining control of the House and a plurality in the Senate just went jumping out the window of a 30-story* building. You're right in that it rallies the Republican base as well as any anti-Obamacare mantra that's out there but would probably remain on the sidelines before this. This just means another 4 years of gridlock. Good thing it starts with a tax increase on January 1st

Spoiler
. That'll make things just peachy.

I don't like the ruling because it's clear judicial activism. Changing the bill from the bench is what was done here, and that's a serious problem. I'm sure liberals would feel the same way if something like this happened to them. But I fully expect a 'well it didn't, SNAR SNAR SNAR' reply now, but it will come back around to bite you in the ass sooner or later.

* - Sorry to ask this, but I always feel I get the spelling wrong here in this context. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please. Thanks.


Well said. I hear you on the judicial activism. I see it as a major problem with this government along with campaign funding and or now super pacs. As far as government reform I see those as a couple biggies.

The gridlock will surely happen and many provisions set to expire will be postponed due to election season and then gridlocked and lost eventually. IE tax cuts unemployment extensions and more.

Fun times ahead.

#4821 chiwii

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:33 PM

Yep it's a great day. Obama will NOT be re-elected.
Our government will spend millions of dollars and hours repealing this stupid ass shit. More wasted time and money. I am so happy :roll:. The economy sucks and yet there are more taxes to pay and more political BS like this for our government to waste its time and money on fixing.

So woohoo Obama will lose the election but boo as it will take valuable time, effort and money to do away with the monumental stupidity and recklessness of Obama.


I don't know about Obama losing the election. I think that it would have been much worse for his campaign if the Supreme Court had overturned the law.

Obama and the dems in the House and Senate were very clear about their goals to reform healthcare during the campaign, and the people voted for them. This wasn't some sort of stealth law that came out of nowhere.

Repealing the law is simply not a solution. The republicans need to do better than that if they expect to win elections based on healthcare.

#4822 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:46 PM

Mixed.

Its clearly constitutional - Its just bad policy. Marginally better than what we had before, sure. But at the end of the day it was bad when Republicans first came up with it 30 years ago and its still bad when the Democrats stole the idea.

It may further entrench us with a clearly broken and unsustainable system.

On yet another hand, we have a few states that will get single payer by 2014 or 2017, and put an end to the entire private, for-profit industry. ACA may be moot.

#4823 Guest_Pliskin101_*

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:50 PM

I don't know about Obama losing the election. I think that it would have been much worse for his campaign if the Supreme Court had overturned the law.

Obama and the dems in the House and Senate were very clear about their goals to reform healthcare during the campaign, and the people voted for them. This wasn't some sort of stealth law that came out of nowhere.

Repealing the law is simply not a solution. The republicans need to do better than that if they expect to win elections based on healthcare.


It was a fraud or if you like a bait and switch. Just in the last week or two I have seen replays multiple interviews and stump speeches from Obama saying this is not a tax and taxes will not be increased. While he argued just the opposite to the activist court.

This is a tax and raises taxes in many different areas. It is a monumental act of stupidity on the court and the obama administration. While yes if it was shot down by the court it might have had a greater outcome on swing votes but at the same time this too has a huge effect on voting as people are smart enough to see that the supreme court ruling is nothing more the activism and partisanship and that this plan is nothing but a lie and causes and will cause more harm than good to the bulk of American People, the economy and the quality and premiums of health care...just to mention a few. The problems are staggering. The mistakes monumental.

#4824 Clak

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:07 PM

Whole lotta butthurt going on here.
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#4825 dohdough

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:09 PM




Edited by dohdough, 28 June 2012 - 08:06 PM.


#4826 cindersphere

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:32 PM

It was a fraud or if you like a bait and switch. Just in the last week or two I have seen replays multiple interviews and stump speeches from Obama saying this is not a tax and taxes will not be increased. While he argued just the opposite to the activist court.

This is a tax and raises taxes in many different areas. It is a monumental act of stupidity on the court and the obama administration. While yes if it was shot down by the court it might have had a greater outcome on swing votes but at the same time this too has a huge effect on voting as people are smart enough to see that the supreme court ruling is nothing more the activism and partisanship and that this plan is nothing but a lie and causes and will cause more harm than good to the bulk of American People, the economy and the quality and premiums of health care...just to mention a few. The problems are staggering. The mistakes monumental.


Funny, lefty activism in a conservative court. Why is it whenever the court makes a decision that conservatives don't like they scream and cry judicial activism, yet a conservative ruling like the Hossana Tabor makes them weak in the knees and sing the praises that they did the right thing?
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#4827 Clak

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:36 PM

And from a conservative judge no less, Roberts was the deciding vote here.
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#4828 KingBroly

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 07:04 PM

Dohdough, come on man, no need to double post. Especially within minutes of each other. Poor form.

Funny, lefty activism in a conservative court. Why is it whenever the court makes a decision that conservatives don't like they scream and cry judicial activism, yet a conservative ruling like the Hossana Tabor makes them weak in the knees and sing the praises that they did the right thing?


Activism is still activism, no matter how you slice it.

And as for people bitching about court decisions they didn't like, Bush v. Gore, 2000. You're still bitching about that one.

Well...maybe not anymore.
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#4829 dohdough

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 07:21 PM

Dohdough, come on man, no need to double post. Especially within minutes of each other. Poor form.

If you can get past the forum restriction of 1 embedded video per post and show me how, I'll gladly delete one and edit the other one into the post that I originally wanted make. TIA!:roll:

Care to lecture bigdaddybruce on telling me to go kill myself as well? Or is that not "poor form" enough to you?

Activism is still activism, no matter how you slice it.

And as for people bitching about court decisions they didn't like, Bush v. Gore, 2000. You're still bitching about that one.

Well...maybe not anymore.

ORLY? Wouldn't that mean that anything and everything that goes to the Supremes as being activist?

#4830 Blaster man

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 07:26 PM

And from a conservative judge no less, Roberts was the deciding vote here.


There's nothing liberal about upholding the Constitution. Congress has the authority to tax and Roberts is upholding it.

The odd thing is that one day Republican's complain about activists judges then when Roberts says this is Constitutional, Republican's complain about not enough judicial activism. The Republican's had a chance to negotiate with the Democrats and instead stonewalled. Now all they have sour grapes.