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Personal Paypal payments for purchases and payers paying Paypal fees prohibited.


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#151 PlayableMoogle

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:13 AM

Paypal's position on this issue is crystal clear.

"You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment."
https://www.paypal.c...eiving_payments

What part of that sentence do you not understand?
The NOT part?


Wow, you went from being decent to getting all sassy and in-my-face.

It's not a lack of understanding on my part, for what it's worth. The word "impose" is too extreme to cover the case of me simply requesting that the buyer pays the fees. Check it out:

im⋅pose [im-pohz] verb, -posed, -pos⋅ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.to lay on or set as something to be borne, endured, obeyed, fulfilled, paid, etc.: to impose taxes.
2.to put or set by or as if by authority: to impose one's personal preference on others.
3.to obtrude or thrust (oneself, one's company, etc.) upon others.
4.to pass or palm off fraudulently or deceptively: He imposed his pretentious books on the public.
5.Printing. to lay (type pages, plates, etc.) in proper order on an imposing stone or the like and secure in a chase for printing.
6.to lay on or inflict, as a penalty.
7.Archaic. to put or place on something, or in a particular place.
8.Obsolete. to lay on (the hands) ceremonially, as in confirmation or ordination.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impose


Basically, I can't force the buyer to pay the fees. But I certainly don't see where it says I can't ask. If you do, feel free to enlighten me. Sassy pants.

#152 wbc1228

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:41 AM

Are you saying that as a seller, he shouldn't be able to set his pricing to whatever he wants? If he sells a game for $20, who's to say he is not really only charging $18 for the game, but $2 to cover fees? Will you be able to understand his intentions? No, stop acting like it.



No, I'm not trying to dictate him or anyone else in setting the price.
Learn to read!
I'm saying he is not permitted to ask the buyer for additional money when paying with paypal.
As long as he charges everyone that price, it is fine.
The terms and conditions are clear written out, not "shoddy" as suggested.

Most of us are competent enough to automatically include any fees or shipping or packaging costs; along with our perceived value of the item when selling on here. Economics 101 or Common Sense 101, either way, most of us have taken the course.

Get off your high horses and post somewhere else. You can't control anyone else but yourself, stop trying to by posting in a forum.

Boom.



I'm not trying to control or brainwash anyone.
Stop making random assumptions.
And no, I don't have a horse.

#153 PlayableMoogle

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:42 AM

No, I'm not trying to dictate him or anyone else in setting the price.
Learn to read!
I'm saying he is not permitted to ask the buyer for additional money when paying with paypal.
As long as he charges everyone that price, it is fine.
The terms and conditions are clear written out, not "shoddy" as suggested.


I just don't see where it says I can't ask. Please help me understand.

#154 Yamato

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 03:43 AM

Try saying the title of this thread 5 times fast.

#155 wbc1228

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:21 AM

I just don't see where it says I can't ask. Please help me understand.



You're asking the buyer to pay an additional fee, a fee that is forbidden by paypal.
I give up. I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue.

PS
Rereading my previous reply, I was indeed kind of sassy.
Sorry...wasn't trying to be mean.
To me, paypal's position regarding this issue is clear.

PSS
Don't get me wrong, I hate paypal.
I used paypal for almost 10 years (June 10, 2000) and I have seen both buyers/sellers get scammed on countless occasions.

#156 PlayableMoogle

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:23 PM

You're asking the buyer to pay an additional fee, a fee that is forbidden by paypal.
I give up. I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue.

PS
Rereading my previous reply, I was indeed kind of sassy.
Sorry...wasn't trying to be mean.
To me, paypal's position regarding this issue is clear.

PSS
Don't get me wrong, I hate paypal.
I used paypal for almost 10 years (June 10, 2000) and I have seen both buyers/sellers get scammed on countless occasions.


I agree - I believe it's coming down to the way we're interpreting "ask" and "impose", and there's probably little sense in discussing it further.

No sweat on the sass. We disagreed. Sass'll happen. Thanks for addressing it.

#157 kklems

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:56 AM

Would be acceptable to add a handling fee to each order to cover packing, driving to PO etc of say $.30 and 2.9% of the total sale price?

#158 Rozz

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 06:11 PM

Would be acceptable to add a handling fee to each order to cover packing, driving to PO etc of say $.30 and 2.9% of the total sale price?


The best idea would be to just include that stuff in your selling price.

#159 t0rment0r

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by From Paypal UA on Fees:
A Personal Payment is: Amounts sent to a friend or family member without a purchase. Personal Payments include, but are not limited to, sending a gift to a friend, or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill


According to this, I would assume that it is within PayPal rules to send personal payments for PSN GameShares.
After all, an individual is paying for a single game that's supposed to be for 5 different persons (friends), and the 4 other persons are paying for their share of the Game (The bill).
Am I wrong?

#160 AvidWriter

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 02:48 AM

Paypal is really pissing me off lately. Putting fees on everything. It seems cheaper to get a damn Money Order like the old days some of the time.

#161 shrike4242

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 02:56 AM

According to this, I would assume that it is within PayPal rules to send personal payments for PSN GameShares.
After all, an individual is paying for a single game that's supposed to be for 5 different persons (friends), and the 4 other persons are paying for their share of the Game (The bill).
Am I wrong?

See earlier in the thread. Yes, it's allowed for PSN gameshares and Steam multipacks.

#162 lain21us

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 04:19 AM

This is all pretty damn retarded. I mean, really retarded. Seriously, why should it concern anyone if I want to send someone a gift payment? It really doesn't matter what the evil empire's (Paypal's) policies are, they are not legally binding and only involve the user and Paypal. This is the same stupid uneducated BS I'm used to hearing from kids about Steam (user policies, blah blah blah). Why are you so determined to help those scam artists enforce their policies, and why should that have anything to do with people who just want to send some cash to a user they trust? Don't say it's not about Paypal's policies, or else why the hell did you even bring them up? It's not the job of anyone to enforce Paypal's policies, and all it does is ***k up the flow of money/goods on this site and make me not want to buy anything.

#163 lain21us

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 04:42 AM

Why would we enforce Paypal's terms of service and not Steam's?

While we're on the topic, are there any other websites whose rules we aren't actively enforcing at this time, that we could be? I really think it's a very serious problem when the billionaire management of a failing financial company, known for countless cases of theft and fraud, can't count on the rest of the Internet to actively enforce its ever-changing rules. I'm glad to know CAG is one of the first to address this sad state of affairs.

Are there any other sites out there whose users we are not yet policing? Maybe we need another thread, just to be sure we're not missing any?

#164 lain21us

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 04:54 AM

As you said, that was several years ago. I have had Paypal protection restore complete funds to my account on two separate occasions within the last 3 years. It works.


Yeah, like these bags I bought on eBay a couple weeks ago, where the seller had listed the wrong dimensions? I got the bags, wouldn't work for what I needed them for since they were the wrong size, and when I contacted the seller he insisted I pay return shipping even though all I got were some bags that weren't even what I purchased. I filed a Paypal claim and it took those geniuses all of about 12 hours to close the case and tell me I had to pay return shipping on the wrong item. No discussion, no appeal. So yeah, I got my $15 back, but not the $5 I had to pay to fix the seller's mistake for him. So where's the protection?

Buyer protection is extremely notorious (just do a Google search) for being a complete scam. By the way, any guesses where the money comes from when you get it back? Straight out of the seller's account, and if they don't have the funds you're out of luck and you won't get your money back. Yep, that's right folks, Paypal doesn't actually have any liability in this "buyer protection" they offer, and they have no obligation to supply you with a refund. That's in their ToS too. Funny how people can focus on the most irrelevant parts of the Terms of Service and completely overlook something major like that. Take it from me and my ~4000 eBay feedbacks, mostly from selling games. I've been ripped off by Paypal's "buyer protection" both as a buyer and a selller, numerous times. There's nothing "good" about Paypal and their shady policies certainly don't deserve any special attention from CAG.

But of course, we have to make sure that, since people around here prefer to use Paypal, they are following the rules when they do so. Otherwise, as (someone) seems to be suggesting, they might stop hooking us up with all those special CAG discounts they're always tossing our way, lol.

Oh right, I forgot, the point was that Paypal might notice the loss of revenue from some percentage of the .001% of all Paypal transactions represented by this site that they obviously pay real close attention to, and take vengeance on this website by doing... something?

GAH!!! I'm confused!

Edited by lain21us, 22 February 2010 - 06:08 AM.


#165 shrike4242

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 06:53 AM

If you don't like Paypal's policies and how they conduct business, don't use them. There's other options out there, as we've discussed previously.

If you do use them, you're going to abide by their TOS.

#166 Zombie Hunter

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 01:37 PM

I never thought paypals fees were ever really all that bad. At least not compared to ebays ><

Also...since you are conducting this "business" on this site..they do have a right to enforce whatever rules they see fit, as they are put in charge by the people who own the site. And again they do have power over you in the fact that if you use their site to do something they don't want you to do, because they feel upholding another businesses TOS due to complaints about it or whatever, its completely within their right, and they can ban you from using their site to do your business. Don't like it? Then leave. I know that sounds dick, but again, this is their site, and they have a right to set the rules, and by joining, you agree to either abide by them or get out.

Also paypal IS a business, so they do have to pay for stuff, and signing up and getting an account is (at least in my experience) completely free. And again I feel their fees are rather tame, at least in my experience. And just because some of you may have had a bad experience doesn't necessarily mean many other people have not been helped. I mean if you were to have an issue in the real business world, you would have to probably pay quite a bit just to try and get your money back if the person refused, having to go to court, pay the gas, pay the legal fees, pay whatever. And sadly there is still some risk buying online, and sometimes you get shafted, which is why you should attempt to do as much research as you can about the person/people you are buying from. And to make it clear, yes I have had a transaction where the person could not ship me something, but never refunded me, and paypal could do little due to how the person I purchased from had no money in their account/the account was frozen. I cannot recall however if you use a card to pay through paypal, if you can contact your card company to do a reversal or block, especially for larger $$$ purchases, but in this case I had used money straight from my paypal account, but for me, it was only 10 or so dollars.

Still as said, there are other options out there to use, and if someone refuses to use anything other than paypal, look up the fees, and see if, depending on the item, is it really worth it to cry and moan about a buck fifty, or due the trade. Might not be the fairest thing in the world, but what is.

Edited by Zombie Hunter, 07 March 2010 - 01:54 PM.


#167 LBJC

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 02:23 AM

Well I think Sony's service is being taken advantage of. Random peoples acting as the buyer's friends aint right. If you read What Jack Trenton(Im sure its him) originally said, was that the user could take their account to their friend's console. Log in and play his/her games. This means a real friend. Why isnt this being reinforced? I dont think ppls see how developers are being hurt by this theft of sales. A game can be bought once and shared up to 5 accounts. So if a game is worth $5 and shared with 5 users, the developer aint getting $25 that he should get, he only gets $5.

This shouldn't be compared to Steam's service as they have "guest" passes for a reason. Plus they have the 4 packs for a reason...to buy with multiple people in mind. PSN games are cheap $5+ games not meant to be shared online like its being done. But no one will do anything. Hypocrisy at its finest.

I dont agree with the new rules but can deal with it. I am a ebay seller too and sucks being charged 2 fees but that can you do? If anything CAG should force ppls to use Amazon's service from now on or something. That way we dont gotta deal with paypal's crap.

#168 DAWG26

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 02:34 AM

^ Let me guess...You use Steam.

#169 LBJC

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 03:23 PM

Nope.

#170 knee

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 02:20 PM

Late to the party, but... I don't think it is the place of this site to enforce another site's TOS unless there is some affiliation between the two.

However, I would understand if a rule were in place with within CAG that barred (and eventually banned) those who openly advertising and requesting 'gift paypal'. Whatever people do and whatever risks they take privately is their business.


Go to drawp.com


#171 shrike4242

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:26 AM

There are other options out there for payment methods besides Paypal. You're more than welcome to use those, though if you're going to use Paypal, you'll be following their TOS for payments.

#172 AionTelos

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 07:45 AM

This sure did make things confusing. So let me get this straight.

Don't use Gift for payments.
Use personal Payments for steam 4=packs and PSN stuff. (No Fee?)
Use the actual payment option for everything else.

I just wanted to buy the Madballs four pack XD

#173 shrike4242

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 02:37 PM

Paypal said there were no issues with doing personal payments for a share of a Steam 4-pack. See the posts earlier in the thread from Paypal.

#174 Trance Addix

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 03:08 AM

This is why I've been trying to promote Amazon Payments for so long, but nobody wants to use it. There are no fees for either side.



Been using it -- love Amazon :).

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#175 gameguy1001

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:23 PM

Hey guys,

Figured i should post this. I know its not really allowed to use gift payment, but alot of users requestt it or request for the 3% fee or whatever it is. I am as guilty as the next for this. I received payments both ways, gift or normal on different sites. But, boy i shouldn't have. Paypal locked my account for it. After 1 month of trying to get it resolved, i called them again today, and they finally told me they closed my account, and the 400+ dollars in it will be held for any where between now and 180 days. So my message to all, don't use the gift option. You may be the next. I know its really common here, and many other sites like this, but don't, just add the 2.9% + 30cents in to your final value, and have people pay it that way. At least you wont wind up like me, now not having a paypal account and having to do everything by cash transactions again. Complete bummer, but i guess, on the other hand my own fault, as it is against paypal policy...jsut never thought i would be closed down because of it, with how frequent people use it.

#176 Amblix

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:30 PM

I'm sorry to hear that, Amazon payments is widely used around here aparently, no charges and you can withdraw to your bank account.

I have yet to use it, but the people the recommeneded it to me are highly trusted.

I'd suggest using that over cash trasnactions.

#177 thebob101

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:31 PM

Thanks for the heads up and I am very sorry to hear about your situation. If you don't mind me asking, how often did you have payments go as gifts? This is definitely something that needs to be put out there for everyone to read.

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#178 gameguy1001

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:36 PM

amblix - i was thinking about amazon payments, but then i don't know if its available for canadians? if anyone has some good info, please tell me. I would rather have something other then just cash, i'll send cash to who i have to but amazon payments would be good for users that use it also.

thebob - i would say it was pretty mixed. I sent gift payments half the time maybe? maybe not even. alot of timnes i added to covers fee's. Same with when i sold. It was alyways a mix. Some people gifted, some didn't. Which is what i have seen as the normal here. It seemed like most people wanted or gave gift payments here. So its just what i did. Same with on gametz. But then bam, because of it i got shut down. I wanted to make this public here so people can see that paypal can catch on to it, and will shut your account down. Which really sucks, cuz i'm out 400+ dollars, for maybe 6 months, in which i had put in my account to pay some people then paypal shut it down. Now i'm out that money, and still have to send cash to these people. So really for 400 dollars in transactions, its gonna cost me 800. Horrible horrible horrible it feels, especially cuz now those couple people have to wait for me to get the cash and send it, then wait for mail to get to you. It really sucks for them to, and it could hurt my rep here because of the wait for it all now, which sucks even worse.

#179 gameguy1001

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:51 PM

it is bogus. I was super pissed. I mean, everyone uses this option. its complete shit! i just hope there is another way like paypal that people use to make it easier. i'll never be able to have a lowball auction or nething again. People won't want to send cash or money orders. :(

#180 jjjbadboy32

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:56 PM

Were you typing things into the message box? I don't see how Paypal can prove that the money wasn't actually "gifted", unless you had some kind of info in the message box.
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